Dust Bowl [Quenched]

[pmchugh]

It is +14.1% over all games. So it is weighted for how many have bad drops, and how many of them should have been won for the player had they not received a bad drop.

The bottom line is, why do you want to have unfair drops happen at all? Starting a game out even to start with is the goal here. Obviously there will be luck in any game and on any map here, but the amount that the drop changes things in Dust Bowl changes things is quite a bit.

The game is by nature unfair. That is what my rant was about. Whether or not you change the drop, it will still be unfair. I think the drop adds to the map, since it can counter act first turn or dice and you must employ different tactics depending on how many of the regions you get. Of course it can go the other way, but it doesn't seem to happen all that often anyway.

[chapcrap]

So, that's a pretty good vote count in favor of the change.

[IcePack]

I'd still like to see a change, but avoid "everyone gets the same amount" scenario and just LESSEN the amount of difference that can result in a drop. Like no player gets more than X

[nolefan5311]

As far as I know, it's either completely random, or distributed evenly. I'm not an expert on the code, but as far as I know there's no in-between.

[koontz1973]

As far as I know, it's either completely random, or distributed evenly. I'm not an expert on the code, but as far as I know there's no in-between.

You can make it more even by coding starting positions with a max. So all you would have is all of the decay regions as a starting position and place a max of 3 onto it. So in a 2 player game, both players would get 3 each from the starting position with the rest handed out equally as long as they are not coded as neutral. This would mean that all players would get say between 3-5 each and in 8 player games, everyone would get 1 or two only.

[nolefan5311]

As far as I know, it's either completely random, or distributed evenly. I'm not an expert on the code, but as far as I know there's no in-between.

You can make it more even by coding starting positions with a max. So all you would have is all of the decay regions as a starting position and place a max of 3 onto it. So in a 2 player game, both players would get 3 each from the starting position with the rest handed out equally as long as they are not coded as neutral. This would mean that all players would get say between 3-5 each and in 8 player games, everyone would get 1 or two only.

Well there you go.

[agentcom]

Voting no until someone actually does an analysis of whether this map is significantly more "unfair" than other maps. Two people have taken small samples and been able to "prove" opposite sides of this argument. I mentioned before that it wouldn't be that hard to actually analyze this, but it is beyond my abilities.

[chapcrap]

Voting no until someone actually does an analysis of whether this map is significantly more "unfair" than other maps. Two people have taken small samples and been able to "prove" opposite sides of this argument. I mentioned before that it wouldn't be that hard to actually analyze this, but it is beyond my abilities.

I think both the samples yielded essentially the same numbers. The only difference in the analysis is that I believe that the drop is unfair and the other analyst believed that the drop didn't matter, because the fact that it's 12 terts to start makes more of a difference.

So, either way, we both called for change.

[Nola_Lifer]

Would like to see the map revamped on graphics. Gotta be a better way then just solid lines to denote impassables.

[thenobodies80]

So, since it seems there's a consensus for change the starting drop.... who will change it? when? how?

[koontz1973]

So, since it seems there's a consensus for change the starting drop.... who will change it? when? how?

I will do it for you. Will get it done when you say yes. How do you want it done?

Decay regions as starting positions with a max of 3 (rest as neutrals)
or
Decay regions as starting positions with a max of 3 (rest get deployed as normal)

Give a max of 11 terts for starting 1v1 games. Meaning one coded neutral in Norfolk at 3.

[koontz1973]

nobodies, can you post the large and small map for me as I cannot find them (forgot how to if I ever could) and also a current copy of the xml so I can get the territs matched up so we do not disrupt the current games.

[RjBeals]

Would like to see the map revamped on graphics. Gotta be a better way then just solid lines to denote impassables.

as in what?

[ManBungalow]

nobodies, can you post the large and small map for me as I cannot find them (forgot how to if I ever could) and also a current copy of the xml so I can get the territs matched up so we do not disrupt the current games.

XML is here:
http://www.conquerclub.com/maps/

Images:
go to browse maps on the start a game tab, then open the thumbnail in a new tab - you can change the URL from ___.S.jpg to ___.L.jpg or vice versa

Would like to see the map revamped on graphics. Gotta be a better way then just solid lines to denote impassables.

as in what?

The graphics look great to me.

[koontz1973]

Thanks ManB, will get it done very soon now. Expect it no later than this time tomorrow.

[chapcrap]

Thanks ManB, will get it done very soon now. Expect it no later than this time tomorrow.

You're my new favorite. Can I buy you some flowers or syrup or something?

[koontz1973]

Here you go guys. The new xml.

This one has the decay regions as positions with a max of 3 given out to players. With no underlying neutrals the rest will go into normal deployment but this should stop 99.9% of unbalanced games. If it turns out it does not work, then neutrals can go into the others easily.

Secondly, Norfolk is now a 3 neutral so in 1v1 games, both should start with 11 territs.

Used the old xml for territ, continent order and also for cords so there is no change there.

Dustbolw.xml

(14.33 KiB) Downloaded 825 times

[chapcrap]

Here you go guys. The new xml.

This one has the decay regions as positions with a max of 3 given out to players. With no underlying neutrals the rest will go into normal deployment but this should stop 99.9% of unbalanced games. If it turns out it does not work, then neutrals can go into the others easily.

Secondly, Norfolk is now a 3 neutral so in 1v1 games, both should start with 11 territs.

Used the old xml for territ, continent order and also for cords so there is no change there.

Dustbolw.xml

Dustbolw?

The rest sounds great!!

[koontz1973]

Is this new xml OK and if so, has it been sent/uploaded yet?

[thenobodies80]

Will check it this evening, when back at home

[chapcrap]

Will check it this evening, when back at home

Well?

[thenobodies80]

Will check it this evening, when back at home

Well?

Ehm well I forgot about it
Going to do it now...sorry

[thenobodies80]

The xml is ok. I've already sent it.

[koontz1973]

Great new and thanks.

[agentcom]

So does that mean the map has been changed?