Battle of Waterloo [Quenched]

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Postby yeti_c on Mon Nov 12, 2007 9:44 am

cairnswk wrote:
yeti_c wrote:Artillery wording...

Why not something like...

"Artillery can bombard any enemy position"

That way you don't need to mention bands and so forth...

Also it should mention that Artillery shouldn't be able to attack anyone (just bombard)

C.


OK...i guess it is feasible for this to occur... iwas thinking of keeping it within ranges, but as you pointed out this might alleviate the band idea....which in itself woudl be good.
and will add the bit about bombard also in next version.

Should the artillery only be able to bombard directly in front of its position? Given that Ajax is working and brings up the terts that one can attack to, would this work?


Whereas I like the idea... I dislike that BOB has to pick up the burden of working out what is going on in a map...

I think that a map should be understandable without BOB...

If you can find a way of describing this in the instructions then yes... otherwise no!

C.

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Version 6 Update

Postby cairnswk on Tue Nov 13, 2007 6:46 pm

Version 6 Update

Bonuses not yet evalutation!

Changes:

1. resize done on overall design to increase amount for map and individual terts.
2. All terts fits 3 digit armies
3. basic colour given as background to terts for easy reading army numbers
4. some gameplay options added.

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Postby Coleman on Tue Nov 13, 2007 7:55 pm

I'm confused for once.

The nameplates help explain how the places are named right?

Why is D'erlon in codes and in a name plate. What is codes even about? (EDIT: Nevermind, it's an example of how places are named... It's going to need improving)

There are 2 CA2 territories.

A place down by BI1 and BC1 with an infantry inside doesn't even have a name.

BC2 is a really confusing territory, but I'm not sure how to improve it.

NI1's 1 is poorly placed, nudge left?

The tree in wellington is hideous (sorry) does it have some sort of historical significance? Why is it there?
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V 7 Update

Postby cairnswk on Tue Nov 13, 2007 8:44 pm

Coleman wrote:I'm confused for once.

The nameplates help explain how the places are named right?

Why is D'erlon in codes and in a name plate. What is codes even about? (EDIT: Nevermind, it's an example of how places are named... It's going to need improving)


Improved in V7 below i hope.

There are 2 CA2 territories.


Fixed.

A place down by BI1 and BC1 with an infantry inside doesn't even have a name.


Fixed

BC2 is a really confusing territory, but I'm not sure how to improve it.


Improved but still needs more work i think.

NI1's 1 is poorly placed, nudge left?

All Napoleon's terts renamed.

The tree in wellington is hideous (sorry) does it have some sort of historical significance? Why is it there?


Yes, Addy (Wellington, in the movie and in print was near a tree when it was struck by artillery fire, so it does have historical reference. Mind you it was probably one of the only trees around in that area that day.
But yes it does need fixing and will be attended to later.

Version 7 Update

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Postby unriggable on Tue Nov 13, 2007 9:09 pm

Artillery is useless in this, i suggest you fix it's role.
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Postby Herakilla on Tue Nov 13, 2007 9:40 pm

whats the differnce from YC1's commander and the others? its signifacantly different visually
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Postby cairnswk on Tue Nov 13, 2007 9:41 pm

unriggable wrote:Artillery is useless in this, i suggest you fix it's role.


...and i suggest you suggest less arrogantly about what to do with the artillery, unriggable. :x

If you can't offer anything of decent value than to criticise in this commenting role, then please don't bother to comment at all on my maps.
I won't bother to fix anything unless you can come up with a decent suggestion.
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Postby edbeard on Tue Nov 13, 2007 9:49 pm

is there a difference between "directly in front of it" and "any surrounding territory?"

Also same question for two territories in advance. (Also, I suggest you change that to "up to two")

I think you just mean these can bombard any territory it is directly connected to, and any territory up to two moves away (respectively), but the way you worded it might confuse people when they play the map for the first time.


Are there going to be bonuses for holding all of a commander's section?

Are there going to be bonuses for holding H, LHS, and CL (whether separate or combined)?


Any reason that Wellington and Ney's commander icons have bolder edges?
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Postby Herakilla on Tue Nov 13, 2007 10:02 pm

edbeard wrote:Any reason that Wellington and Ney's commander icons have bolder edges?


thats exactly what i meant

and i think he means for the calvary to be real attacks, not bombard and i believe when he says ahead he means into the other armies territories and not behind to its own army
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Postby edbeard on Tue Nov 13, 2007 10:07 pm

if that's the case those are the words he should use.

Also, I know it's not a bombard. You just read what I wrote incorrectly. I was talking about both the artillery and calvary at the same time. So, the wording was quite confusing.
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Postby Herakilla on Tue Nov 13, 2007 10:21 pm

edbeard wrote:if that's the case those are the words he should use.

Also, I know it's not a bombard. You just read what I wrote incorrectly. I was talking about both the artillery and calvary at the same time. So, the wording was quite confusing.


then i blame you for my error!
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Postby Herakilla on Tue Nov 13, 2007 10:23 pm

beard is right about the artillery wording, it says "any territory directly in front of it" the map isn't perfectly linear, some territories are smaller in width and the rows do not line up. i would suggest finding another way to word what you mean
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Postby cairnswk on Tue Nov 13, 2007 10:50 pm

Herakilla wrote:whats the differnce from YC1's commander and the others? its signifacantly different visually


Thanks Herakilla...there is no difference, the image just got 1 pixels extra in width and 1 px extra in border wgich it shouldn't have. My bad... :oops:
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Postby cairnswk on Tue Nov 13, 2007 11:03 pm

edbeard wrote:is there a difference between "directly in front of it" and "any surrounding territory?"

Also same question for two territories in advance. (Also, I suggest you change that to "up to two")

I think you just mean these can bombard any territory it is directly connected to, and any territory up to two moves away (respectively), but the way you worded it might confuse people when they play the map for the first time.


Are there going to be bonuses for holding all of a commander's section?

Are there going to be bonuses for holding H, LHS, and CL (whether separate or combined)?


Any reason that Wellington and Ney's commander icons have bolder edges?


Thanks for the feedback edbeard...appreciated as always....

1. What i am wanting to do, is have the artillery bombard enemy positions across the map "directly in front of" the artillery themselves, perhaps up to five territories away. This of course is difficult to describe and without using more icons, perhaps even more difficult to present graphically.
Perhaps i should use "up to five territory range".

2. I think i should use terriotry "up to two moves away" for the calavry, although i an not so sure....i kind of think "can attack up to two territories in advance" would be more appropriate, and yes "cavalry doesn't bombard of course, they charge and kill - giddayup giddayup giddayup hussar, hoorah hoorah hoorah...(just me gitting in the swing of things cavlary here). :) :wink:

3. Bonuses for Commanders, YES.

4. Bonuses for Hougomont and Chapel St Lambert...Yes.
The other small viallges are bonused already in that group of 5.

5. Bolder edges on Welling and Ney are simply my bad pixelling borders.

Gentlemen...battle hasn't yet begun :wink: please.
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Postby Coleman on Wed Nov 14, 2007 12:20 am

Well, it's all much better for me thanks. Ready to be moved? You're odd in wanting to wait sometimes. :lol:
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Postby cairnswk on Wed Nov 14, 2007 1:31 am

Coleman wrote:Well, it's all much better for me thanks. Ready to be moved? You're odd in wanting to wait sometimes. :lol:


i don't want to be odd this time. :wink: Thanks
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Postby cairnswk on Wed Nov 14, 2007 1:33 am

Version 7

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Postby Aerial Attack on Wed Nov 14, 2007 2:19 am

Hey Cairnswk,

I like the changes you've made so far - the cavalry designs are sweet.

I'm about a get out my fine tooth comb, so I apologize in advance if it's harsh.

1) This is the most difficult change and you probably won't want to do it. Seeing as how the French/British are mostly up/down the map - maybe the little markers could have the reds on top and the blues on the bottom. Then again, I don't know if that would turn out ...

2) There seem to be several potential overlaps which may or may not be meant (keep in mind, I'm using the LARGE map):

CI3 connects to SI2 and CI2 - seems to be on purpose, maybe just angle the connection slightly more to the left
KI2 connects to CA3 (at CA2/CA3 border) - unsure if this is as meant, maybe square the angle off
AI2 (connected to UC3, UC4, other AI2, and YC5) has it's left border obscured by crossing the road. If you switch the positioning of the Infantry symbol to the right
AI2 is repeated - I assume this is supposed to be AI3 (square box next to road and shrubbery and YC6 and YC5)?
NI1 is connected to KI1 and YC4 - maybe angle KI1/YC4 border right at NI1 connection
UC3 connects to UC2 (at UC2/PA2 border) - unsure if this is as meant, maybe angle UC1/UC3 border up at UC2 connection or UC2/PA2 border down at UC3 connection
PI3/PC1 border - why have shrubbery (for looks I guess), considering the small gap right there at the bottom (seems to still block PI3/PC2 attacks)
UC1/YC6 border - there's shrubbery there, but it's unclear if only blocks AI2 or also YC6 (likely)
DA2 connects to DA3 (at DI6/DA3 border) - seems like is should, but with so much room why cut it so close
DI4 connects to DA2 (at DA1/DA2 border) - not sure this is as meant
RI4 seems to use a smaller font than RA1 and RI3 - actually I'm noticing some slight font differentials in other places too (BI5, BI4, and all BCs) seem small/blocky - like CL1 & 2
PC2 connects with ZC2 - this seems fine, but with the road there you might want to angle the ZC2/ZC3 border down at the PC2 connection
DI2/UC5 border has pixel overlap (goes across to PI1 too)
RI3 connects to RI1 (at RI1/RI2 border) - the angle on the RA1/RI3 border doesn't seem to go enough to the left.
LI5 connects to LI2 (at LI2/DI7 border) - this seems to be as meant
LI2 connects to LI3 (at LI1/LI3 border) - this seems to be as meant


3) The dead space between Napoleon and BC1 and Plancenoit - what exactly is this, it's the only terr with a "battle background" and no label

4) The village names are quite long and why is Mont St Jean there [not in the village key]. I assume Bois de Paris is nothing.

5) If you are going to give Napoleon a different background color - should you do the same for Wellington?

6) I think in the legend it should be Hedge Row [so as not to crowd the map].

Thanks for listening.

- Aerial Attack
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Postby cairnswk on Wed Nov 14, 2007 2:59 am

Aerial Attack wrote:Hey Cairnswk,

I like the changes you've made so far - the cavalry designs are sweet.

I'm about a get out my fine tooth comb, so I apologize in advance if it's harsh.
............
Thanks for listening.

- Aerial Attack


Thanks aerial attack....i am printing this out as i type and will go through it with my fine tooth comb this evening. I very much appreciate you input. :wink: and will post some results as soon as I have done them.
I am happy to have CC direct me on this map (within reason)...it is a most difficult map if opne is to take advantage of all the battle facilities available to make it a grand map.
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VErsion 8 Update

Postby cairnswk on Wed Nov 14, 2007 5:26 am

Yeti C

I've been through and made most of those adjustments you asked for above.
Hope this satisfies....I didn't change the icons for top/bottom but this will have to be attended to somehow in the legend.

I've also changed the bonus bars to a more gold colour (although still not there yet...something i have to learn yet)

I think they will look better all this colour, because the red/blue doesn't really matter with the key codes.

Also...if the XML will permit....i will be writing the full code out.

For example.....DA1 will be noted as

DA1 - D'erlon Artillery 1

This should be better for identification for everyone to esnure there are no mix ups.

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Postby yeti_c on Wed Nov 14, 2007 6:06 am

I don't think that DA5 can be conquered from it's original territory?

It's protected from behind by hedges - and the cavalry is more than 2 away from it...

C.
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Postby cairnswk on Wed Nov 14, 2007 6:19 am

yeti_c wrote:I don't think that DA5 can be conquered from it's original territory?

It's protected from behind by hedges - and the cavalry is more than 2 away from it...

C.


You're right of course....i'll alter in the next version. :)
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Postby Aerial Attack on Wed Nov 14, 2007 9:10 am

yeti_c wrote:I don't think that DA5 can be conquered from it's original territory?

It's protected from behind by hedges - and the cavalry is more than 2 away from it...

C.


The cavalry (BC2) can't jump hedges *chuckle*?

Cairnswk,

Excellent update. It feels so good to be heard.

Two more quick things.

1. There are two PA2s - I assume one is supposed to be PA3

2. I like what you did with the hedges between PC1 and PI3, but the changes you made to PC1's borders need more defining. Either you didn't erase the previous borders enough or you haven't defined the new ones enough. I'm going to assume that what you want is for PC2 (instead of PC1 - otherwise, why have the hedge) to have access to PI3

I think you should move the PI3 hat up 1 pixel and cut off PI2 and PI3 from PI4 on their side (the one with hedge) of the road. This way the PI1 border is slightly more clear that it reaches to the PI2 hedges and the PC2 border is more clear that it reaches the PI3 hedges. Finally, you need to darken the border from the PC1/PC2 border (from the PI3 hedge to ZC2) and erase the extraneous border from road (creates a faint non-terr triangle between PI3, PC1, and PC2)

I hope I explained that correctly - too bad I can't draw otherwise it would be simple.
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Postby I GOT SERVED on Wed Nov 14, 2007 2:40 pm

The only issue I have with this map is that the color scheme makes it look very bleak. If that's what you're aiming for, then great. But I would like to see at least a slight variety of color in this map.
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Postby mibi on Wed Nov 14, 2007 2:41 pm

I dunno Cairns, they may be a market for this map, but I think the learning curve is as steep as it gets. It also kinda looks like a jello mold.

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