Das Schloß [QUENCHED #2]

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Re: Das Schloß [BETA] V45 Word Adjustment?

Postby cairnswk on Wed Aug 18, 2010 5:07 pm

MrBenn wrote:This is still Beta for now - but hopefully it's shortly on it's way into full play.

Cairns, do you think everything's settled now?


MrBenn,
I would hope so.
I checked just now and there are 98 games active, so it is being played well enough.
Of these, some 63 are foggy, which perhaps given this is a winter scene might seem the natural setting for the map.
Anyways, can i ask that we give it until say 15 Sept before moving it, if there are no major objections.
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Re: Das Schloß [BETA] V45 Word Adjustment?

Postby MrBenn on Thu Aug 26, 2010 4:22 pm

cairnswk wrote:
MrBenn wrote:This is still Beta for now - but hopefully it's shortly on it's way into full play.

Cairns, do you think everything's settled now?


MrBenn,
I would hope so.
I checked just now and there are 98 games active, so it is being played well enough.
Of these, some 63 are foggy, which perhaps given this is a winter scene might seem the natural setting for the map.
Anyways, can i ask that we give it until say 15 Sept before moving it, if there are no major objections.

Sounds fine by me... Is Sept 15th a significant date?
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Re: Das Schloß [BETA] V45 Word Adjustment?

Postby cairnswk on Thu Aug 26, 2010 5:00 pm

MrBenn wrote:...
Sounds fine by me... Is Sept 15th a significant date?

No not really, I just picked a few weeks hence.
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Re: Das Schloß [BETA] V45 Word Adjustment?

Postby thunderhue on Mon Aug 30, 2010 8:40 am

I hesitate to bring this up, but without BOB, it is not clear that the Landeplatz connect to each other. I exploited my opponents ignorance of that in Game 7234624. I know you just clarified that the Landeplatz provide access to the hubschraubers...

I don't have a good idea on how to fix this. Personally I feel that you need to have at least one good play through on this map to understand how it works.

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Re: Das Schloß [BETA] V45 Word Adjustment?

Postby InnyaFacce on Fri Sep 03, 2010 9:58 pm

Sept 15th Will Be A Glorious Day
Das Schloß has become my favorite map
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Re: Das Schloß [BETA] V45 Word Adjustment?

Postby iancanton on Sun Sep 05, 2010 1:48 pm

thunderhue wrote:I hesitate to bring this up, but without BOB, it is not clear that the Landeplatz connect to each other. I exploited my opponents ignorance of that in Game 7234624. I know you just clarified that the Landeplatz provide access to the hubschraubers...

u're right. the legend doesn't say so, nor is it implied on the map in any way. this is important to strategy, since it means that trying to bombard the parachutes is not the only reason for assaulting a landeplatz.

the trouble is, the legend text is already on the verge of looking cramped. a simple landeplatz a & b connect is enough information. do we have enough room to squeeze it in?

ian. :)
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Re: Das Schloß [BETA] V45 Word Adjustment?

Postby cairnswk on Wed Sep 08, 2010 7:22 pm

iancanton wrote:
thunderhue wrote:I hesitate to bring this up, but without BOB, it is not clear that the Landeplatz connect to each other. I exploited my opponents ignorance of that in Game 7234624. I know you just clarified that the Landeplatz provide access to the hubschraubers...

u're right. the legend doesn't say so, nor is it implied on the map in any way. this is important to strategy, since it means that trying to bombard the parachutes is not the only reason for assaulting a landeplatz.

the trouble is, the legend text is already on the verge of looking cramped. a simple landeplatz a & b connect is enough information. do we have enough room to squeeze it in?

ian. :)


how does this suit?

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Click image to enlarge.
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http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s282 ... V45S-1.png
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s282 ... V45L-1.png
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Re: Das Schloß [BETA] V45 Word Adjustment?

Postby viking thunder on Fri Sep 10, 2010 9:22 pm

As a guy who has finished over 20 games on this map, and is currently in over 15 games on this map, I really like the game-play in the map. I like that you are almost forced to conquer the objective as opposed to just wiping out your opponent.

I do think that it is a map that you have to play a few times to understand how everything is laid out and what connects to what. That will be an issue for many players.

The only thing I would like to see improved. I believe game-play would be much improved if the auto-reset on AA was higher than 5. I think something in the 12-20 range would make for enhanced game-play. I believe the low number on AA allows for domination of the map too early on in the game on many occasions, especially in games with 3 or less players.

Just my thoughts.

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Re: Das Schloß [BETA] V45 Word Adjustment?

Postby viking thunder on Fri Sep 10, 2010 9:26 pm

Also I have noticed that when playing with low player numbers, this map throws bonus on initial deployment a ton more often than any of the other maps I have played. IF you start 8 games in 1v1, it is not uncommon for 3-4 games to start with someone having a bonus from the start.

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Re: Das Schloß [BETA] V45 Word Adjustment?

Postby bibo33 on Sun Sep 12, 2010 8:10 pm

a bit to long
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Re: Das Schloß [BETA] V45 Word Adjustment?

Postby iancanton on Wed Sep 15, 2010 2:08 am

viking thunder wrote:IF you start 8 games in 1v1, it is not uncommon for 3-4 games to start with someone having a bonus from the start.

the +3 for 5 das dorf can have a serious effect on these games. perhaps making it +6 for 9, or something similar, will give the bottom right player a juicy target without handing to him an early and sustainable bonus.

the new legend wording addresses the landeplatz without looking too squashed, so that's good.

ian. :)
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Re: Das Schloß [BETA] V45 Word Adjustment?

Postby cairnswk on Wed Sep 15, 2010 2:19 am

lackattack, a small change in wording to this map in the legend about helipads, if could upload these images please.

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s282 ... V45S-1.png
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s282 ... V45L-1.png

Thanks
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Re: Das Schloß [BETA] V45 Word Adjustment?

Postby cairnswk on Wed Sep 15, 2010 2:30 am

iancanton wrote:the new legend wording addresses the landeplatz without looking too squashed, so that's good.
ian. :)

^^^^
Thanks ian for confirmation of that.
EDIT: Forwarded to lackattack for upload.

iancanton wrote:
viking thunder wrote:IF you start 8 games in 1v1, it is not uncommon for 3-4 games to start with someone having a bonus from the start.

the +3 for 5 das dorf can have a serious effect on these games. perhaps making it +6 for 9, or something similar, will give the bottom right player a juicy target without handing to him an early and sustainable bonus.


ian, do you really think that should be changed?
I dont' think so and here's why:
1. it creates some initial parallel with the first part bonus in the airport and the castle.
2. given that this area in the south has to battle their way to the airport and the castle to overtake their opponents, i would have thought some easy bonus would be applicable to move up the castle road or the cable car.
3. on the back of that, there is also the AA which can take out any pathways created to to move troops in from the drop-zone, which itself by the sheer nature of killer neutrals is a force to take.
4. the castle and airport are not easy to obtain bonuses, so if someone has troops available to place in these spots for their gain from the village bonus, then it's to their advantage and can help move the game along.
5. making that bonus harder to acheive might slow down games and make them all the more boring and difficult to achieve the game objective.
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Re: Das Schloß [BETA] V45 Word Adjustment?

Postby cairnswk on Wed Sep 15, 2010 6:08 am

lackattack has updarted the image as above with adjusted wording. :)
Thanks lackattack.
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Re: Das Schloß [BETA] V45 Word Adjustment?

Postby iancanton on Thu Sep 16, 2010 4:32 pm

sorry, cairns, i was looking at an old (probably cached) version that had the +1 for 3 flughafenstrasse bonus.

while its not normally good practice to let players have such a high chance of starting with +3 bonuses, it doesn't necessarily have such a detrimental effect here compared with other maps because it's so much more difficult to win.

is there a reasonable win ratio in 1v1 (let's say above 20%) for those whose opponents have a +3 bonus on turn 1? if so, then we can safely say that the map passes with flying colours!

ian. :)
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Re: Das Schloß [BETA] V45 Word Adjustment?

Postby cairnswk on Thu Sep 16, 2010 5:03 pm

iancanton wrote:sorry, cairns, i was looking at an old (probably cached) version that had the +1 for 3 flughafenstrasse bonus.

while its not normally good practice to let players have such a high chance of starting with +3 bonuses, it doesn't necessarily have such a detrimental effect here compared with other maps because it's so much more difficult to win.


thanks ian.

is there a reasonable win ratio in 1v1 (let's say above 20%) for those whose opponents have a +3 bonus on turn 1? if so, then we can safely say that the map passes with flying colours!

ian. :)

I dont' know about this one, perhaps AAFitz would be the one to ask about this.
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Re: Das Schloß [BETA] V45 Word Adjustment?

Postby AAFitz on Thu Sep 16, 2010 7:16 pm

Well, even I cant answer that based on those numbers solely because I play fog and dont keep track if people get bonus....

but I would guess that its 98% certain that bonus doesnt mean too much, compared to the dice, and compared to where the people drop.

All I can say is this is instinct after playing many after the final update, but on 1v1, it is a random as hell map. Hardly ever do I see the drop affect the game, more than the playing/dice affect the outcome.

So far as I can tell, and have seen, you can win from any spot on the map, given certain circumstances. Again, the bonus is helpful, but I do not think its a deciding factor, and honestly, it happens so infrequently, especially compared to other maps, that I certainly dont worry about it.

Its a great 1v1 map, and possibly the most fair on the site. Sure, it still has an advantage of going first, but its much easier to counter than on nearly any other map, especially on fog. Id have to play it another 200 times to really suggest any change whatsoever I think.

Id say pass it. If its skewed now, it just gives the map a little character in my opinion. Find one more player to confirm this though maybe.

Oh, and above 20% Id guess is absolutely probable. I didnt even realize the proportion was so low. Id say going first affects it far more than that bonus. Again, double check.
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Re: Das Schloß [BETA] V45 Word Adjustment?

Postby MrBenn on Sat Sep 18, 2010 3:08 am

I'm happy to let things go as they are.... Having followed the map from my early days in the Foundry, it gives me great honour to let the Great Escape begin...
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Re: Das Schloß [BETA] V45 Word Adjustment?

Postby MrBenn on Sat Sep 18, 2010 3:13 am

              Quenching

---The Beta period has concluded for the Das Schloß Map. All objections have had their time. The Foundry and I hereby brand this map with the Foundry Brand. Let it be known that this map is now ready to be released into live play.

Congratulations cairnswk, your shiny new medal is well-earned =D>


Conquer Club, enjoy!
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Re: Das Schloß [QUENCHED #2]

Postby cairnswk on Sat Sep 18, 2010 6:58 am

Thank-you MrBenn.
I hope all the effort of re-doing this map is worth it. :)
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Re: Das Schloß [QUENCHED #2]

Postby DKohler on Sat Sep 18, 2010 1:26 pm

The image I see marked as "NEW CURRENT" contains a typo. A box at the bottom left says "FlughafenstraBe (Fs) +1 for 3". Instead of 'B', it should use 'ß'.
In case this comment renders incorrectly or becomes outdated, I'm referring to the letter "Eszett" / "scharfes S" and the image is hosted at http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s282 ... V45S-1.png
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Re: Das Schloß [QUENCHED #2]

Postby AAFitz on Tue Sep 21, 2010 6:26 am

cairnswk wrote:Thank-you MrBenn.
I hope all the effort of re-doing this map is worth it. :)


Oh dont question that cairns.... It very well may not have been worth it to you, but many already love this map and its uniqueness alone, along with the many options of how to play give it a forever niche in CC history I think
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Re: Das Schloß [QUENCHED #2]

Postby cairnswk on Wed Sep 22, 2010 9:04 pm

AAFitz wrote:
cairnswk wrote:Thank-you MrBenn.
I hope all the effort of re-doing this map is worth it. :)


Oh dont question that cairns.... It very well may not have been worth it to you, but many already love this map and its uniqueness alone, along with the many options of how to play give it a forever niche in CC history I think


Oh beleive me, it was certainly worth re-doing if it keep you guys happy, it also keeps me happy.
I just hope enough out there appreciate the re-work, that's all.
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Re: Das Schloß [QUENCHED #2]

Postby theworldnomore on Sun Oct 31, 2010 12:20 am

umm, even when i conquer those spaces, it does not allow me to win the game. so do i still have to conquer my enemy?
and if so, how would you attack the casey, jones, mills, etc.
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Re: Das Schloß [QUENCHED #2]

Postby ender516 on Sun Oct 31, 2010 12:47 am

Always remember, you must hold the objective for one round. So if your opponent in Game 7876352 does not take one of the regions in the objective on his turn, you will win.
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