Arms Race! [Quenched]

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Re: Arms Race! [Quenched]

Postby kletka on Thu May 22, 2008 6:28 am

WidowMakers wrote: This is why people need to come into the foundry before a map is finished.


So it is my fault, I guess. Sorry :!:

BTW, Albert Lamorisse did not do his homework either, as Ukraine takes over all Western Russia and Afganistan is taking the territory of Kazakhstan, while the map is crowned with 2 cities of Yakutsk and Irkutsk! :mrgreen:
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Re: Arms Race! [Quenched]

Postby mibi on Thu May 22, 2008 6:32 am

kletka wrote:What the f*** is Chitba?? The city is called Chita, a proud capital of Zabajkalskij Kraj :twisted:

Also why is it Ekatirenburg and Leningrad? They were never called this at the same time!! You would better change Ekaterinburg to its proper communist name Sverdlovsk :!:

And Samara was called Kuibyshev in the USSR

#-o Can you do your homework before making maps, grrrrrrr?

being that the USSR was closed off during much of the cold war, this make accurately reflects the inaccurate intelligence that was common during the era.
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Re: Arms Race! [Quenched]

Postby Incandenza on Thu May 22, 2008 1:32 pm

I got a chance to deliver that old Moby Dick line " from hell's heart I stab at thee" last night as I nuked an opponent into radioactive cinders....

god I love this map.
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Re: Arms Race! [Quenched]

Postby MOBAJOBG on Sat May 24, 2008 8:05 pm

Thanks for making a nicely balance and simply interesting map.
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Re: Arms Race! [Quenched]

Postby fireedud on Sun May 25, 2008 8:59 am

Guys, I'm starting A cold War tourney, here's the link if you want to join: viewtopic.php?f=90&t=51961
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Arms Race Map Improvement

Postby CryWolf on Sun May 25, 2008 5:05 pm

Hello all,

I've seen many maps be created, and every once in a while one comes out that is simply awesome. I want to thank whoever came out with the arms race map, because it is simply excellent. However, I do have a suggestion that would make the map more realistic and perhaps more fun :)

If you hold the launch code and the missile for a country, you should only have to control one of the presidents to win. For example, if you hold the premier, the USA launch code, and the Titan II, you should be able to "Launch" the US missile at any USA territory.

Let me know what you think :)
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Re: Arms Race Map Improvement

Postby WidowMakers on Sun May 25, 2008 9:37 pm

CryWolf wrote:Hello all,

I've seen many maps be created, and every once in a while one comes out that is simply awesome. I want to thank whoever came out with the arms race map, because it is simply excellent. However, I do have a suggestion that would make the map more realistic and perhaps more fun :)

If you hold the launch code and the missile for a country, you should only have to control one of the presidents to win. For example, if you hold the premier, the USA launch code, and the Titan II, you should be able to "Launch" the US missile at any USA territory.

Let me know what you think :)
I am glad you liek the map. Hope it continues to play well.

As far as you thinking it would be more realistic...I disagree. How realistic would it have been for the USSR premiere to have called into USA with launch codes and ordered a strike? Probably not to likely. Anyway there are plenty of things that are not realistic here, we had to make choices and we felt this was the best option.

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Re: Arms Race Map Improvement

Postby BENJIKAT IS DEAD on Mon May 26, 2008 2:40 am

CryWolf wrote:If you hold the launch code and the missile for a country, you should only have to control one of the presidents to win. For example, if you hold the premier, the USA launch code, and the Titan II, you should be able to "Launch" the US missile at any USA territory.


Not only is this idea a little silly, it's also almost entirely redundant. I am yet to see anyone slog through a missile until after they have control of that entire country - so in the example above there wouldn't be anything (useful) to bombard.
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Re: Arms Race! [Quenched]

Postby terrafutan on Mon May 26, 2008 7:00 am

I recently completed my 1st Arms Race game. Have to say, a very fun map to play.

One little issue thats not a game stopper or anything, but I took out everything my opponent had conquered except his missile launch which one can't target.

Obviously on the very next turn I won the game but this is the first time I have ever seen an opponent eliminated by neutral lol

From the game log:
2008-05-26 13:33:05 - Incrementing game to round 14
2008-05-26 13:38:47 - Hado911 lost SS-18 MISSLE LAUNCH to neutral player
2008-05-26 13:38:47 - neutral player eliminated Hado911 from the game
2008-05-26 13:38:47 - terrafutan won the game

Dunno if that would classify as a bug or a game feature to keep the spirits up.
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Re: Arms Race! [Quenched]

Postby bryguy on Sat May 31, 2008 7:35 am

lol did u realize that you can get eliminated from the game by the neutral player? i played 3 games against a dude and in the last 1 that happened, cause he got the opposing missile and bombared all my territs except for the one which i used to bombard HIS missile in the last turn. So then he ended his turn and i got myself killed by a neutral :mrgreen:


oh well, tons of fun!
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Re: Arms Race! [Quenched]

Postby T7 on Sun Jun 01, 2008 6:40 am

Where's the mutha that came up with and made this map? Freakin' awesome mate, great fun! Thanks for sticking to your vision of something different, it works damn well.

Looks like I'm going to get to fire a nuke in my first game - can't wait to frack those Russians up with an overwhelming +50 hit!

(Nothing personal to any Russians or ex-USSR nation people here... if my placement had fallen in the USSR instead of the US, I'd be just as keen and excited about blowing those Americans to smithereens...!! :mrgreen:
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Re: Arms Race! [Quenched]

Postby WidowMakers on Sun Jun 01, 2008 12:30 pm

Well I think I can speak for mibi and myself that we are glad people like the map. It is almost 100% the same as mibi's initial idea. So give him credit for the idea. I just do pretty pictures.

Have fun NUKING the world. :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

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Re: Arms Race! [Quenched]

Postby Ogrecrusher on Mon Jun 02, 2008 3:04 pm

Firstly I'd like to say I love this map, awesome fun, but I would like to say one thing.
I've noticed the tactic of attacking through the neutral on missile launch WITHOUT holding the missle is actually a very effective strategy. My opponent did this against me and it nearly turned the game, then I did it to him with the armies I had left and pulled it back.
To me this seems against the original idea of the map. I'd like to see the neutral raised to say 50, and the bonus for strike to 100.
This would discourage this "against the spirit of the map" tactic, which I will continue using until it's fixed :)
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Re: Arms Race! [Quenched]

Postby WidowMakers on Mon Jun 02, 2008 5:15 pm

Ogrecrusher wrote:Firstly I'd like to say I love this map, awesome fun, but I would like to say one thing.
I've noticed the tactic of attacking through the neutral on missile launch WITHOUT holding the missle is actually a very effective strategy. My opponent did this against me and it nearly turned the game, then I did it to him with the armies I had left and pulled it back.
To me this seems against the original idea of the map. I'd like to see the neutral raised to say 50, and the bonus for strike to 100.
This would discourage this "against the spirit of the map" tactic, which I will continue using until it's fixed :)
I have no problem with this. If mibi is OK I can redo teh Image.

If we do adjust the settings, do the numbers make sense to everyone?

50 respawn on MISSILE LAUNCH
100 BONUS

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Re: Arms Race! [Quenched]

Postby mibi on Mon Jun 02, 2008 7:02 pm

WidowMakers wrote:
Ogrecrusher wrote:Firstly I'd like to say I love this map, awesome fun, but I would like to say one thing.
I've noticed the tactic of attacking through the neutral on missile launch WITHOUT holding the missle is actually a very effective strategy. My opponent did this against me and it nearly turned the game, then I did it to him with the armies I had left and pulled it back.
To me this seems against the original idea of the map. I'd like to see the neutral raised to say 50, and the bonus for strike to 100.
This would discourage this "against the spirit of the map" tactic, which I will continue using until it's fixed :)
I have no problem with this. If mibi is OK I can redo teh Image.

If we do adjust the settings, do the numbers make sense to everyone?

50 respawn on MISSILE LAUNCH
100 BONUS

Comments

WM


I don't see how taking out 15 neutrals beyond you attack your opponent is in any way an advantage. why not put your armies on a spy and not have to waste attacks on neutrals? Or put the 20 armies you would need to get past the neutrals on to your president and launch code to secure a nuke. it doesn't make much sense to me.

strikes through the missile without nuclear capacity are known as conventional missiles strikes, they are pretty lame, if you if let them turn the game you must be doing something wrong.
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Re: Arms Race! [Quenched]

Postby BENJIKAT IS DEAD on Mon Jun 02, 2008 7:07 pm

mibi wrote:
I don't see how taking out 15 neutrals beyond you attack your opponent is in any way an advantage. why not put your armies on a spy and not have to waste attacks on neutrals? Or put the 20 armies you would need to get past the neutrals on to your president and launch code to secure a nuke. it doesn't make much sense to me.

strikes through the missile without nuclear capacity are known as conventional missiles strikes, they are pretty lame, if you if let them turn the game you must be doing something wrong.


I disagree, especially in escalating - you just bust on through. But even in no card games I have won this way (you whittle the 15 down to 1 or 2 over a number of turns)- I guess it's the fog that makes it different.

I do agree though that the numbers are fine for the moment - as I think an alternative to the NUCLEAR option makes for good gameplay.
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Re: Arms Race! [Quenched]

Postby Ogrecrusher on Tue Jun 03, 2008 8:03 am

If you intend for it to be played that way, then fine. I just figured it went against the spirit of the map!
Going through 15 neutrals is the way to win even in flat rate games. Spies are very limited in what they can attack, when you go through the neutrals you can take out the bunkers, the uranium, and everything. It's worth it.
In my experience, no one bothers trying to hold the scientists, sometimes they have launch code and sometimes the president, but rarely both (for obvious reasons!). With all the territories on your side + the missile, you can get a deployment of 10 + 4 autodeploy, assuming you fort the previous turn's autodeploy to the top of the missile, then cash a say 10 set, you can have 25 armies on missile the warhead, it doesn't take many armies to get through the 15, then you can hit all you want. If it was raised to 50 this would not happen in flat rate games (although at some point it might happen in escalating).

It all depends on if you think it 'should' be played.
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Re: Arms Race! [Quenched]

Postby yeti_c on Tue Jun 03, 2008 8:34 am

I just played a 3 game series on this map - I emerged the victor...

2 games were won before mutual seperation occured. (1 each way)

And the final game... was a battle to gain the requisite territories to launch...

With a 70 odd deploy the 15 neutrals were brushed aside - and terror rained down on the USSR from above as I lay waste to all and sundry!!

Just out of curiousity - has anyone played this map on more than 2 player?

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Re: Arms Race! [Quenched]

Postby mibi on Tue Jun 03, 2008 8:53 am

Ogrecrusher wrote:If you intend for it to be played that way, then fine. I just figured it went against the spirit of the map!
Going through 15 neutrals is the way to win even in flat rate games. Spies are very limited in what they can attack, when you go through the neutrals you can take out the bunkers, the uranium, and everything. It's worth it.
In my experience, no one bothers trying to hold the scientists, sometimes they have launch code and sometimes the president, but rarely both (for obvious reasons!). With all the territories on your side + the missile, you can get a deployment of 10 + 4 autodeploy, assuming you fort the previous turn's autodeploy to the top of the missile, then cash a say 10 set, you can have 25 armies on missile the warhead, it doesn't take many armies to get through the 15, then you can hit all you want. If it was raised to 50 this would not happen in flat rate games (although at some point it might happen in escalating).

It all depends on if you think it 'should' be played.


I forgot about escalting... but even still there will always be a point where the escalating card total is more than the nuke. I still don't see why going through 15 neutrals is worth it to get the 3 +1 bonuses than can't be got via the spies.

that said, I would have no problem raising the nuke launch to 35 or 40 and the nuke to 75 or 100. hammering away at 50 neutrals might get a little tedious.
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Re: Arms Race! [Quenched]

Postby yeti_c on Tue Jun 03, 2008 10:34 am

Favourite map - ever.

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Re: Arms Race! [Quenched]

Postby Ogrecrusher on Tue Jun 03, 2008 10:51 am

mibi wrote:
Ogrecrusher wrote:If you intend for it to be played that way, then fine. I just figured it went against the spirit of the map!
Going through 15 neutrals is the way to win even in flat rate games. Spies are very limited in what they can attack, when you go through the neutrals you can take out the bunkers, the uranium, and everything. It's worth it.
In my experience, no one bothers trying to hold the scientists, sometimes they have launch code and sometimes the president, but rarely both (for obvious reasons!). With all the territories on your side + the missile, you can get a deployment of 10 + 4 autodeploy, assuming you fort the previous turn's autodeploy to the top of the missile, then cash a say 10 set, you can have 25 armies on missile the warhead, it doesn't take many armies to get through the 15, then you can hit all you want. If it was raised to 50 this would not happen in flat rate games (although at some point it might happen in escalating).

It all depends on if you think it 'should' be played.


I forgot about escalting... but even still there will always be a point where the escalating card total is more than the nuke. I still don't see why going through 15 neutrals is worth it to get the 3 +1 bonuses than can't be got via the spies.

that said, I would have no problem raising the nuke launch to 35 or 40 and the nuke to 75 or 100. hammering away at 50 neutrals might get a little tedious.


Without giving away my tactics too much, I'll just say the fact you can bombard 'anything' makes it easy to eliminate territories tactically. And because it's bombard and most of the territories will have 1s on them, even a 10 army could destroy pretty much all your armies.

In the game I made the realisations about this strategy, my opponent attacked through the warhead with 25ish armies, had 12 left, with those 12 and good, but not so good as to be rare, dice rolls literally destroyed all my armies except 2 where I had big stacks. It's VERY worth it. You can cut someone to a deployment of 3, which makes it easy to get the big bonus and win by the conventional method.
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Re: Arms Race! [Quenched]

Postby TaCktiX on Tue Jun 03, 2008 3:06 pm

Yes, I just finished a game without ever taking the Nuclear Strike bonus (someone Spied my Launch Code). For one turn, I had only 15 armies on the Launch, and annihilated all but 1 army on the other side of the map. Never underestimate bombard, even if you don't have the +50.

As for the map, it's my new favorite. I fricking LOVE playing on Arms Race, it rewards consistent strategy and screws people just hoping for the dice (though consistently bad dice screw a good player just as well, but that's a problem on all maps).
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Re: Arms Race! [Quenched]

Postby Incandenza on Thu Jun 05, 2008 3:00 am

Apologies if this has already been mentioned (and I can't believe I never noticed it until now), but SS-18 MISSLE LAUNCH (sic) is missing an I.
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Re: Arms Race! [Quenched]

Postby Spartica on Tue Jun 10, 2008 7:04 am

Game: 2513982

I dont know if this is a bug or not. Sorry, not willing to read previous 25 pages to see if anybody else has had this problem either.

At the begining of the game I took President and found for 2 turns I could not attack from that position. At round 8 I tried to eliminate another colour and would have done so had I not found I am unable to attack out of Launch Code!! This might have cost me the game...
If this is a bug then fair enough. If this is how the game is designed then I am a bit miffed that there is no explanation anywhere on the map for me to know to avoid placing large armies on President and Lauch Code if I intend to attack another territory adjacent to them.

Regards :)
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Re: Arms Race! [Quenched]

Postby zimmah on Tue Jun 10, 2008 7:18 am

Spartica wrote:Game: 2513982

I dont know if this is a bug or not. Sorry, not willing to read previous 25 pages to see if anybody else has had this problem either.

At the begining of the game I took President and found for 2 turns I could not attack from that position. At round 8 I tried to eliminate another colour and would have done so had I not found I am unable to attack out of Launch Code!! This might have cost me the game...
If this is a bug then fair enough. If this is how the game is designed then I am a bit miffed that there is no explanation anywhere on the map for me to know to avoid placing large armies on President and Lauch Code if I intend to attack another territory adjacent to them.

Regards :)


did you think the borders were attack lines? happens sometimes to players new to the map.
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