Arms Race! [Quenched]

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Re: Arms Race! [Quenched]

Postby BENJIKAT IS DEAD on Mon Jun 02, 2008 7:07 pm

mibi wrote:
I don't see how taking out 15 neutrals beyond you attack your opponent is in any way an advantage. why not put your armies on a spy and not have to waste attacks on neutrals? Or put the 20 armies you would need to get past the neutrals on to your president and launch code to secure a nuke. it doesn't make much sense to me.

strikes through the missile without nuclear capacity are known as conventional missiles strikes, they are pretty lame, if you if let them turn the game you must be doing something wrong.


I disagree, especially in escalating - you just bust on through. But even in no card games I have won this way (you whittle the 15 down to 1 or 2 over a number of turns)- I guess it's the fog that makes it different.

I do agree though that the numbers are fine for the moment - as I think an alternative to the NUCLEAR option makes for good gameplay.
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Re: Arms Race! [Quenched]

Postby Ogrecrusher on Tue Jun 03, 2008 8:03 am

If you intend for it to be played that way, then fine. I just figured it went against the spirit of the map!
Going through 15 neutrals is the way to win even in flat rate games. Spies are very limited in what they can attack, when you go through the neutrals you can take out the bunkers, the uranium, and everything. It's worth it.
In my experience, no one bothers trying to hold the scientists, sometimes they have launch code and sometimes the president, but rarely both (for obvious reasons!). With all the territories on your side + the missile, you can get a deployment of 10 + 4 autodeploy, assuming you fort the previous turn's autodeploy to the top of the missile, then cash a say 10 set, you can have 25 armies on missile the warhead, it doesn't take many armies to get through the 15, then you can hit all you want. If it was raised to 50 this would not happen in flat rate games (although at some point it might happen in escalating).

It all depends on if you think it 'should' be played.
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Re: Arms Race! [Quenched]

Postby yeti_c on Tue Jun 03, 2008 8:34 am

I just played a 3 game series on this map - I emerged the victor...

2 games were won before mutual seperation occured. (1 each way)

And the final game... was a battle to gain the requisite territories to launch...

With a 70 odd deploy the 15 neutrals were brushed aside - and terror rained down on the USSR from above as I lay waste to all and sundry!!

Just out of curiousity - has anyone played this map on more than 2 player?

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Re: Arms Race! [Quenched]

Postby mibi on Tue Jun 03, 2008 8:53 am

Ogrecrusher wrote:If you intend for it to be played that way, then fine. I just figured it went against the spirit of the map!
Going through 15 neutrals is the way to win even in flat rate games. Spies are very limited in what they can attack, when you go through the neutrals you can take out the bunkers, the uranium, and everything. It's worth it.
In my experience, no one bothers trying to hold the scientists, sometimes they have launch code and sometimes the president, but rarely both (for obvious reasons!). With all the territories on your side + the missile, you can get a deployment of 10 + 4 autodeploy, assuming you fort the previous turn's autodeploy to the top of the missile, then cash a say 10 set, you can have 25 armies on missile the warhead, it doesn't take many armies to get through the 15, then you can hit all you want. If it was raised to 50 this would not happen in flat rate games (although at some point it might happen in escalating).

It all depends on if you think it 'should' be played.


I forgot about escalting... but even still there will always be a point where the escalating card total is more than the nuke. I still don't see why going through 15 neutrals is worth it to get the 3 +1 bonuses than can't be got via the spies.

that said, I would have no problem raising the nuke launch to 35 or 40 and the nuke to 75 or 100. hammering away at 50 neutrals might get a little tedious.
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Re: Arms Race! [Quenched]

Postby yeti_c on Tue Jun 03, 2008 10:34 am

Favourite map - ever.

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Re: Arms Race! [Quenched]

Postby Ogrecrusher on Tue Jun 03, 2008 10:51 am

mibi wrote:
Ogrecrusher wrote:If you intend for it to be played that way, then fine. I just figured it went against the spirit of the map!
Going through 15 neutrals is the way to win even in flat rate games. Spies are very limited in what they can attack, when you go through the neutrals you can take out the bunkers, the uranium, and everything. It's worth it.
In my experience, no one bothers trying to hold the scientists, sometimes they have launch code and sometimes the president, but rarely both (for obvious reasons!). With all the territories on your side + the missile, you can get a deployment of 10 + 4 autodeploy, assuming you fort the previous turn's autodeploy to the top of the missile, then cash a say 10 set, you can have 25 armies on missile the warhead, it doesn't take many armies to get through the 15, then you can hit all you want. If it was raised to 50 this would not happen in flat rate games (although at some point it might happen in escalating).

It all depends on if you think it 'should' be played.


I forgot about escalting... but even still there will always be a point where the escalating card total is more than the nuke. I still don't see why going through 15 neutrals is worth it to get the 3 +1 bonuses than can't be got via the spies.

that said, I would have no problem raising the nuke launch to 35 or 40 and the nuke to 75 or 100. hammering away at 50 neutrals might get a little tedious.


Without giving away my tactics too much, I'll just say the fact you can bombard 'anything' makes it easy to eliminate territories tactically. And because it's bombard and most of the territories will have 1s on them, even a 10 army could destroy pretty much all your armies.

In the game I made the realisations about this strategy, my opponent attacked through the warhead with 25ish armies, had 12 left, with those 12 and good, but not so good as to be rare, dice rolls literally destroyed all my armies except 2 where I had big stacks. It's VERY worth it. You can cut someone to a deployment of 3, which makes it easy to get the big bonus and win by the conventional method.
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Re: Arms Race! [Quenched]

Postby TaCktiX on Tue Jun 03, 2008 3:06 pm

Yes, I just finished a game without ever taking the Nuclear Strike bonus (someone Spied my Launch Code). For one turn, I had only 15 armies on the Launch, and annihilated all but 1 army on the other side of the map. Never underestimate bombard, even if you don't have the +50.

As for the map, it's my new favorite. I fricking LOVE playing on Arms Race, it rewards consistent strategy and screws people just hoping for the dice (though consistently bad dice screw a good player just as well, but that's a problem on all maps).
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Re: Arms Race! [Quenched]

Postby Incandenza on Thu Jun 05, 2008 3:00 am

Apologies if this has already been mentioned (and I can't believe I never noticed it until now), but SS-18 MISSLE LAUNCH (sic) is missing an I.
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Re: Arms Race! [Quenched]

Postby Spartica on Tue Jun 10, 2008 7:04 am

Game: 2513982

I dont know if this is a bug or not. Sorry, not willing to read previous 25 pages to see if anybody else has had this problem either.

At the begining of the game I took President and found for 2 turns I could not attack from that position. At round 8 I tried to eliminate another colour and would have done so had I not found I am unable to attack out of Launch Code!! This might have cost me the game...
If this is a bug then fair enough. If this is how the game is designed then I am a bit miffed that there is no explanation anywhere on the map for me to know to avoid placing large armies on President and Lauch Code if I intend to attack another territory adjacent to them.

Regards :)
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Re: Arms Race! [Quenched]

Postby zimmah on Tue Jun 10, 2008 7:18 am

Spartica wrote:Game: 2513982

I dont know if this is a bug or not. Sorry, not willing to read previous 25 pages to see if anybody else has had this problem either.

At the begining of the game I took President and found for 2 turns I could not attack from that position. At round 8 I tried to eliminate another colour and would have done so had I not found I am unable to attack out of Launch Code!! This might have cost me the game...
If this is a bug then fair enough. If this is how the game is designed then I am a bit miffed that there is no explanation anywhere on the map for me to know to avoid placing large armies on President and Lauch Code if I intend to attack another territory adjacent to them.

Regards :)


did you think the borders were attack lines? happens sometimes to players new to the map.
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Re: Arms Race! [Quenched]

Postby Spartica on Tue Jun 10, 2008 8:29 am

Yes I did....what a plonka :lol:
Thanks for clearing that up :oops:
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Re: Arms Race! [Quenched]

Postby nick11 on Sat Jun 28, 2008 8:25 pm

playing a speed on "Arms Race" (game #2741788). we got to the end of the game and we had both wiped each other out with troops remaining only on the top of the missile. when i started the next round i lost and lost heavy. This can't be correct. the game was ended because i started a round? thats really screwed up.

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Re: Arms Race! [Quenched]

Postby DiM on Sat Jun 28, 2008 9:51 pm

nick11 wrote:playing a speed on "Arms Race" (game #2741788). we got to the end of the game and we had both wiped each other out with troops remaining only on the top of the missile. when i started the next round i lost and lost heavy. This can't be correct. the game was ended because i started a round? thats really screwed up.

Nick



indeed a very interesting situation :lol:
i believe you should have waited for the other guy to start turn and kill himself :P

i'm not sure how this can be fixed though
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Re: Arms Race! [Quenched]

Postby nick11 on Sat Jun 28, 2008 10:02 pm

first fix would be to return my points and then second make the top of the missile visible so we can attack each other. in games like this the last one standing would win but as it is now we can't attack the top of the missile.

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Re: Arms Race! [Quenched]

Postby yeti_c on Sun Jun 29, 2008 10:15 am

nick11 wrote:first fix would be to return my points and then second make the top of the missile visible so we can attack each other. in games like this the last one standing would win but as it is now we can't attack the top of the missile.

nick


Thems the rules - perhaps the other guy knew not to start the next round?

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Re: Arms Race! [Quenched]

Postby mibi on Sun Jun 29, 2008 10:21 am

nick11 wrote:playing a speed on "Arms Race" (game #2741788). we got to the end of the game and we had both wiped each other out with troops remaining only on the top of the missile. when i started the next round i lost and lost heavy. This can't be correct. the game was ended because i started a round? thats really screwed up.

Nick



yep when you are both stuck out in the vastness of outer space (missile launch) the first person to try to take a breath, loses.
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Re: Arms Race! [Quenched]

Postby seamusk on Tue Jul 01, 2008 10:54 pm

nick11 wrote:playing a speed on "Arms Race" (game #2741788). we got to the end of the game and we had both wiped each other out with troops remaining only on the top of the missile. when i started the next round i lost and lost heavy. This can't be correct. the game was ended because i started a round? thats really screwed up.

Nick

We just had this happen (not double death but someone dieing on missile launch) in a doubles 4 player game. My partner was the one left on the launch. He hit start, got killed, and then... it was my turn. Which was wrong because it shouldn't have been. Both teams were down to 1 now so I went and then the other team's remaining player got deferred armies. Red was eliminated, blue was skipped, and I was green. Yellow was already dead. This seems like a glitch in the gaming code.
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Re: Arms Race! [Quenched]

Postby TaCktiX on Wed Jul 02, 2008 1:29 am

People stuck on missile launch was an accepted worst case scenario. If you look on some of the last pages prior to Quench, you'll see a more indepth discussion on it.
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Re: Arms Race! [Quenched]

Postby seamusk on Wed Jul 02, 2008 11:36 am

TaCktiX wrote:People stuck on missile launch was an accepted worst case scenario. If you look on some of the last pages prior to Quench, you'll see a more indepth discussion on it.

That doesn't explain the glitch I describe above.
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Re: Arms Race! [Quenched]

Postby bomberman760 on Mon Jul 14, 2008 1:36 am

I looked everywhere for an answer to this, but no luck.

In a doubles game, why can I only fortify to about half of my teammate's territories? Not all are listed as an option to fortify to, and after several turns now I cannot figure out any rhyme or reason. I have not been able to fortify to any teammate territory where armies were actually needed.

Thanks.
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Re: Arms Race! [Quenched]

Postby edbeard on Mon Jul 14, 2008 2:02 am

seamusk wrote:
TaCktiX wrote:People stuck on missile launch was an accepted worst case scenario. If you look on some of the last pages prior to Quench, you'll see a more indepth discussion on it.

That doesn't explain the glitch I describe above.


you managed to leave out the most important part of the game log from your post


2008-07-01 19:32:07 - cptbighead lost Titan II MISSLE LAUNCH to neutral player
2008-07-01 19:32:07 - neutral player eliminated cptbighead from the game
2008-07-01 19:37:04 - neutral player was kicked out for missing too many turns



a neutral player being kicked out for missing turns is not something a mapmaker can fix. I think it's safe to assume that is why the other follies came about. I can only hope you brought this up in the bugs forum.
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Arms Race Board is broken

Postby Kenwhite1973 on Tue Mar 17, 2009 12:48 pm

Arms Race Board is broken

You do not get the +50 troops when holding the President, launch code, and entire missile.
also you no longer have to occupy all the regions on the missile to still be allowed to Bombard enemy regions in the other country.
PLEASE FIX IT as it is not right
game example :
4411041
Thank you
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Re: Arms Race Board is broken

Postby sully800 on Tue Mar 17, 2009 12:54 pm

Its fog of war so your link does not help.

You don't have to hold anything except for the missile launch to be able to bombard the enemy. No launch code, president or missile territories required.

And I assure you the +50 bonus works properly. Make sure you are holding the correct launch code and president/premiere to correspond with your missile. Also make sure that you are still holding the entire missile at the start of your turn (no territories bombarded by the enemy).
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Re: Arms Race Board is broken

Postby ben79 on Tue Mar 17, 2009 12:57 pm

Kenwhite1973 wrote:Arms Race Board is broken

You do not get the +50 troops when holding the President, launch code, and entire missile.
also you no longer have to occupy all the regions on the missile to still be allowed to Bombard enemy regions in the other country.
PLEASE FIX IT as it is not right
game example :
4411041
Thank you



i'm playing arm's race everyday and you don't need the entire missile to be able to bombard the enemy's region, i do get 50 armies to hold president launch code and entire missile, the only problem with this map it's that the rolls are like a beta map

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Re: Arms Race Board is broken

Postby cicero on Tue Mar 17, 2009 4:27 pm

Moved from Suggestions & Bug Reports to Map Foundry > Drafting Room: New Projects.
Foundry mods to merge with quenched Arms Race thread.

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