Operation Drug War [Quenched]

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Postby edbeard on Thu Feb 14, 2008 4:48 pm

first of all, we're not joking around with anything. it is a serious subject, and we're not making light of that. But, at the same time it's just a CC map.


Image

here is the map with graphics. Thanks Telvannia!


What you need to know

1. This is an objective map. Four different ones that all include holding the main stash.
2. There are 24 starting territories. Everything starts neutral except the 8 patrol cars, the 4 corner bosses, the 4 runners, the 4 corner junkies, the 4 counters.
That's 4*4 + 8 = 16 + 8 = 24
3. There are 35 other territories that start out as neutral
4. Number of neutrals on those territories has yet to be determined.


To Do:

1. Legend sprucing up.

Ideas: maybe a police type background for it? Red-white-Blue title maybe.

ideas here would be helpful

2. Stick-up man

changing from a Lorry to a pickup truck

3. spare territory

Oops. This should be part of the muscle territory for that area.

4. labels

need to put the labels on the sectors so people can distinguish doubly named territories. EG: SW stash, NE junkie etc..

5. Army circles for specific territories

For the territories that have connections we make unique army circles. It serves as a subliminal reminder of what was said in the legend.

detective - lieutenant each maybe is a badge
attorney - prosecutor each maybe is a square/book shape
garage - driver not sure of a good symbol here. ideas?
Last edited by edbeard on Wed Mar 19, 2008 8:03 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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Postby Sir. Ricco on Thu Feb 14, 2008 4:51 pm

Maybe the patrol could bombard the junkies. Just a thought.
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Postby edbeard on Thu Feb 14, 2008 11:40 pm

Sir. Ricco wrote:Maybe the patrol could bombard the junkies. Just a thought.


well since they are directly connected in the four borders, this isn't possible.



Soooo, I'm trying to think how many neutrals to start on certain territories.

We could just go with the standard 3 on all of them but I don't think that makes sense.

I think we want to encourage going after bonuses so maybe put 2 neutrals on every territory except for any involved in an objective. These could have 4 or 6 and the Main Stash could have 6 or 8.



One thing about the bonuses, I had intended the junkie+stash, counter+runner+stash and Boss+muscle bonuses to ONLY work inside a corner. So, this will be clarified soon.


But, since there are muscle throughout the map, do we want a Muscle bonus? At the moment the only incentive to get them is if you hold the Boss in that corner, or if you hold the Leader or 2nd. Maybe Muscle could have a +4 for 5 bonus or something? Or, a +2 for any 3?
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Postby Coleman on Fri Feb 15, 2008 4:27 pm

The questions I'm seeing now are ones I think should be discussed in main foundry. Off you go. :D

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Postby Unit_2 on Fri Feb 15, 2008 4:34 pm

Do we really need a "Drug Wars" map?
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Postby Coleman on Fri Feb 15, 2008 4:37 pm

Unit_2 wrote:Do we really need a "Drug Wars" map?
Well he had enough discussion. *shrugs*

The gameplay is different, and it's a unique theme. I'm sure there are people here (especially outside the foundry) that would like it.
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Postby Kaplowitz on Fri Feb 15, 2008 4:38 pm

Unit_2 there's also mibi's prison map which looks awesome.
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Postby edbeard on Fri Feb 15, 2008 5:01 pm

Do we really need any of the maps we make here? No. But, we make them to have fun playing a game.


There are no 'Objective Oriented' maps out there. Yes a few maps do have objectives, but honestly I don't think any of them are directing their gameplay towards winning via objective. I think this map does.


thanks for the move, Coleman. Hopefully we get some gameplay discussion going!
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Postby edbeard on Tue Feb 19, 2008 10:37 pm

Well, it took me a while to get through all these comments. Sorry it took so long for me to respond.

I've decided to add the What you need to know comment to my post above. In the future, this will go on every update. Additionally, I will edit that post (and possibly the OP of the thread) with any ideas that we are considering and/or implementing that have come from the thread. Maybe even include ideas that we are not considering just so people know. That way people can't complain about not reading the whole thread to see where the map is going.



Anyway, the more I think about it, the more 2 neutrals on all the non-starting territories makes sense. 4 neutrals will go on the 'objective' territories (eg: Judge, Detective) and 6 neutrals will go on the Main Stash.
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Postby oaktown on Tue Feb 19, 2008 10:56 pm

I'm in the camp that isn't too crazy about this idea, but I'll suck it up and look at gameplay. :)

Thanks for the info in the first post, edbeard. I haven't read the entire thread in quite a while, so I'm going off of what's in the initial post.

Right now I'm wondering how you are going to clarify what the bonuses are for. Supply? Vacant? Corner?

I know it wasn't intentional, but the gameplay is very similar to DiM's Mogul map - unpassable streets, connection through phones/subways on corners. Visually, DiM's map has more going for it, so you may want to come up with something to set this one apart.
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Postby edbeard on Tue Feb 19, 2008 11:06 pm

well I made this map before DiM's so it definitely wasn't intentional! Anyway, I don't see any connection between the maps other than both being in the city.

I forgot to add the "To Do" stuff to the first post. If you scroll up this page to where the update is you'll see that the Supply, Vacants, Corners need to be labeled.


There's nothing else, in my mind, that this maps needs to 'set itself apart.' Tweaking is obviously necessary though. Ideas are always welcome, but I think other than discussion of bonuses, number of starting neutrals, and possibly some territory arrangement, that's all the gameplay needs.



Also, a suggestion about what you do if I may. I know that reading the first post is what you generally do, but maybe take the time to look at the last update post (which almost every thread indicates in the title). It can be frustrating when people come in to comment and they've read the first post but not the last update. Sure, they should be similar but at the same time it doesn't hurt to look!
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Postby oaktown on Tue Feb 26, 2008 11:49 pm

edbeard wrote:Also, a suggestion about what you do if I may. I know that reading the first post is what you generally do, but maybe take the time to look at the last update post (which almost every thread indicates in the title). It can be frustrating when people come in to comment and they've read the first post but not the last update. Sure, they should be similar but at the same time it doesn't hurt to look!

Right, I generally try to read the most recent page or two of a thread in addition to the first post, just so I know what the current discussion is, but more often than not I miss things. So the only thing I can promise not to miss is what's in the first post.

I'm also doing marathon sessions of responding to posts, so if I got to this one late last week I might have been a bit blurry eyed. :shock: Ah, the good old days, when I could focus on two or three maps and keep up with the discussion!

Oh yeah, the map... It would be nice if there were some method of seeing who a particular territory can attack simply by looking at the map; a color scheme, labels, or some littel graphic maybe. If you're using BoB this won't be an issue, but for anybod not running BoB it won't be automatically intuitive that you have to defend the lieutenant from the detective, for example.

And while I'm nitpicking attack routes, can you better explain in the legend how the patrols connect?
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Postby edbeard on Thu Feb 28, 2008 9:27 pm

maybe we can make the army circles for connected territories be the same. It kinda serves as a subliminal reminder of what was said in the legend.

detective - lieutenant each maybe is a badge
attorney - prosecutor each maybe is a uhhh not sure
garage - drive not sure again



As for the patrol cars connecting, I'm not sure how what I put isn't clear? Patrol cars connect vertically and horizontally by sector.

Frankly, I'm not sure how to explain that better without being very wordy. Part of having a good legend is being concise. Clarity is equally important. Obviously I'm being concise, but you have a problem with the clarity. Maybe you can explain further what isn't clear about it.
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Postby edbeard on Sat Mar 22, 2008 5:11 pm

Image


v5


What you need to know

1. This is an objective map. Four different ones that all include holding the main stash.
2. There are 24 starting territories. Everything starts neutral except the 8 patrol cars, the 4 corner bosses, the 4 runners, the 4 corner junkies, the 4 counters.
That's 4*4 + 8 = 16 + 8 = 24
3. There are 35 other territories that start out as neutral
4. Number of neutrals on those territories has yet to be determined.


Just done:

1. Legend spruced up a bit to be a police report/memo type of thing. Though the sector bonuses and the stick-up-man bonus need to be put back. Perhaps we'll list all the symbols that can attack each other in a row and state that territories with same symbols can attack each other so that there's space for the sector bonuses to be listed.

2. Sector Labels added. I think they hide too much of the art. So, hopefully we can have another go, at this style, or perhaps a new style.

3. Symbols added to signify movement possibilities. EG: phone symbols and police car etc...

Also, we made all police cars connected to avoid confusion.

4. Changed the title to signify the police aspect more.



To do:

1. Stick-up man

changing from a Lorry to a pickup truck

2. labels

redo to make the art underneath more visible. or perhaps a different style

3. figure out neutral values

4. finish art on all territories
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Postby mibi on Sat Mar 22, 2008 7:58 pm

the kerning on the A's is messed up.
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Postby InkL0sed on Sat Mar 22, 2008 8:15 pm

I don't like the Sector Labels... too much going on in one space.
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Postby edbeard on Sat Mar 22, 2008 8:35 pm

yep. that's why we're going to change them.



mibi, care to clarify which font you're talking about?

the territory labels, the legend, or the sector label text?

I think you're talking about the territory label text, but I'm not sure. We're going to use the legend font for the territory labels so that will probably solve that problem (if that's the one you meant).
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Postby mibi on Sun Mar 23, 2008 12:07 am

edbeard wrote:yep. that's why we're going to change them.



mibi, care to clarify which font you're talking about?

the territory labels, the legend, or the sector label text?

I think you're talking about the territory label text, but I'm not sure. We're going to use the legend font for the territory labels so that will probably solve that problem (if that's the one you meant).


STASH looks like ST ASH

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kerning
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Postby edbeard on Sun Mar 23, 2008 12:08 am

thanks! I went to that page when you mentioned it. But, like I said, that text will be changed most likely.

Also, here's the XML. I haven't done the centering, but I'm hoping Lanyards still will do that.



Edit: updated XML below. errors fixed.

SENDSPACE LINK TO XML
Last edited by edbeard on Mon Mar 24, 2008 6:07 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby edbeard on Sun Mar 23, 2008 4:00 pm

Image





What you need to know:

1. This is an objective map. Four different ones that all include holding the main stash.
2. There are 24 starting territories. Everything starts neutral except the 8 patrol cars, the 4 corner bosses, the 4 runners, the 4 corner junkies, the 4 counters.
That's 4*4 + 8 = 16 + 8 = 24
3. There are 35 other territories that start out as neutral
4. Number of neutrals on those territories has yet to be determined. But, I have provide an example image of what it could be below.


Just done:

1. Redid legend to make sector bonuses and labels clear (note that there is no bonus for Stash House and this ? will be removed)

2. Two examples of new fonts for territory labels. I prefer the transparent version in the Supply sector.



To do:

1. Stick-up man

changing from a Lorry to a pickup truck

2. finalize neutral values

3. finish art on all territories

4. pick a territory label font



Here's an example of what I think the neutrals should be.

2 neutrals on all non-starting territories except 4 on those territories needed for an objective and 6 on the Main Stash which is needed for all objectives.

Image
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Postby oaktown on Sun Mar 23, 2008 6:55 pm

Clearly you've put some thought into the play, so I'll leave you to it.

The success of this map will depend upon the legend making perfect sense in this map, as it will could a challenge for some of our international players. The addition of the inset block is helpful. I recognize that the legend is still a work in progress, so my apologies if t everything I say is unnecessary, but here are some little things that i see:

"Can attack the similar symbols" - Lose the word "the".

Colons before each +X would make it cleaner in my opinion... "5 patrols: +4"

"Stick-up-man" looks funny with two hyphens. I'd drop the second one. Meanwhile, does "autodeploy" also need a hyphen? My guess would be yes.

I think it's worth giving stick-up man two lines, like so:
Stick-up Man may bombard any stash
+2 deployed on Stick-up Man each turn

The "leader/2nd" isn't consistent with "commissioner and lieutentant... I think I'd give them both an ampersand (&). Also, consider capitalizing each title in the legend so they stand out.

"Junkie and stash from 1 sector +1"
It might be better to say "Junkie and stash in same sector: +1"

Likewise with the other lines that use the "1" twice.
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Postby edbeard on Mon Mar 24, 2008 12:22 am

thanks for that Oaktown. We'll implement those in the next update (I hope). One thing to clarify though, we had Leader/2nd because it was an or. We'll change this to Leader or 2nd.


repost for new page

Image


I've been thinking that the Patrol are 1/3 of the starting territories. In 1v1 games, this is probably going to be an area of huge importance

Though, I think the optimal game size for this will be 3, 4 and 5, it's important to make sure it's not completely fucked for other game types.



So, what are people's thoughts on the 5 Patrols: +4 bonus ?


I think this could be better served for holding all Patrols. So, I'm proposing a "All Patrols: +8" Bonus. Too high?
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Postby edbeard on Mon Mar 24, 2008 3:24 pm

Image


v7
v6
v5


What you need to know

1. This is an objective map. Four different ones that all include holding the main stash.
2. There are 24 starting territories. Everything starts neutral except the 8 patrol cars, the 4 corner bosses, the 4 runners, the 4 corner junkies, the 4 counters.
That's 4*4 + 8 = 16 + 8 = 24
3. There are 35 other territories that start out as neutral
4. Number of neutrals on those territories has yet to be determined. Proposed 2 on all with the exceptions of 4 on objective territories and 6 on Main Stash


Just done:

1. Fixed legend errors / made things more clear

2. Put new font on territory labels



To do:

1. Stick-up man

changing from a Lorry to a pickup truck

2. finalize neutral values

3. finish art on all territories

4. Thorough gameplay discussion
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Postby edbeard on Sun Mar 30, 2008 5:26 am

Image


v8
v7
v6
v5


What you need to know

1. This is an objective map. Four different ones that all include holding the main stash.
2. There are 24 starting territories. Everything starts neutral except the 8 patrol cars, the 4 corner bosses, the 4 runners, the 4 corner junkies, the 4 counters.
That's 4*4 + 8 = 16 + 8 = 24
3. There are 35 other territories that start out as neutral
4. Number of neutrals on those territories has yet to be determined. Proposed 2 on all with the exceptions of 4 on objective territories and 6 on Main Stash


Just done:

1. changed a few bits of art

2. Put new font on all territory labels



To do:

1. finalize neutral values

2. finish art on all territories

3. Thorough gameplay discussion
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Re: Operation Drug War v9 pg6

Postby gimil on Sun Mar 30, 2008 9:40 am

Edbeard would you consider color coordianting the legends to there represneted terrritory names? This may make identifing bonuses, objective etc easier.
What do you know about map making, bitch?

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