Europa [Quenched]

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Re: New Europe [Not-a-REVAMP]

Postby MrBenn on Tue Jan 01, 2008 6:17 am

New Map Update!
Image

Changes:
-The non-playable areas are greyed out
-Map/Curvature lines have been added (this explains the funny UK/Spain angles)
-Meditteranean islands added
-Territory names moved, and some boundaries moved (particularly in Balkans)
-Some territory names abbreviated, and a key of these added
-Colours changed to show possible continent/sub-continent bonuses
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Postby Skittles! on Tue Jan 01, 2008 6:22 am

Nice update, but a few things that need fixing up.

- Looking at your legend, you have the wrong colours for the Continents (E.g. British Isles is pink, Balkans is red as is Western Europe.)

- The border with Finland and European Russia is very thing, especially down the bottom. Maybe make it the same thickness as everything else?

Looking good anyway.
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Postby Balsiefen on Tue Jan 01, 2008 6:39 am

Your sea routes are nice but very hard to see. could you make them bolder in some way.
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Postby MrBenn on Tue Jan 01, 2008 6:40 am

I preferred the colours in my first version - I think they look a bit muted/bland now... Does anybody have suggestions for a colour scheme that will 'fizz', and allow the diffreentation of the required number of areas??

Oh, and before anybody mentions it, I know that the legend needs redoing! :)
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Postby MrBenn on Tue Jan 01, 2008 6:42 am

The sea routes are on my to-do list... I'll have to put some new ones in for the Meditteranean Islands too...
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Re: New Europe [Not-a-REVAMP] --Update p3--

Postby Blitzaholic on Tue Jan 01, 2008 7:13 am

MrBenn wrote:Following earlier discussion about a new Europe map, here is my map so far:
updated 01/01/2008

Image

Previous Versions:
Version 1
Image



I like it, but why two?


and if so, we keeping both europe maps if this works out?
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Postby tim02 on Tue Jan 01, 2008 11:56 am

Don't like the way you did the continents in the south, you should have West Med. for all the Islands west of Italy should be a continent by itself.

East Med. should be Turkey Greece, Crete and Cyprus.

You'll be shot before you put Holland with Germany I suggest that you use The low Countries for BeNeLuxMake it there own.

You should now put Italy with all the countries inside part of The Continent Germany is in (I don't know what it is because you haven't redone the legend).

Russia should be part of "Asian borders"

Denmark, Iceland, Romania, Moldova, Slve. and Ireland don't have the same shade as the rest of there continent.

That was my opinion I hope it Helps
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Postby AndyDufresne on Tue Jan 01, 2008 2:40 pm

Be careful about small territories and placing the army shadow over them...Andorra, VC, Liech, etc.


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Postby Qwert on Tue Jan 01, 2008 3:39 pm

Maybe these can help you(look in Wikipedia)
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NEW REVOLUTION-NEW RANKS PRESS THESE LINK viewtopic.php?f=471&t=47578&start=0
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Re: New Europe [Not-a-REVAMP]

Postby MrBenn on Tue Jan 01, 2008 7:38 pm

Image
-Amended Legend Colours

I've updated the legend with continent colours. My idea for bonuses so far - (I'm open to other ideas too) - are:

Scandinavia (dark purple) to be a small bonus (+2), with another +2 for holding the other bits (light purple)

British Isles. UK (light yellow) something like +3. Possibly another +1 for Rep Ireland too.

Meditteranean. A bonus for the dark red areas, and another for hlding the islands too. I'm not convinced I've got the divisions right here yet, and like the suggestion for having East/West Med. This (and ocean routes) needs some more thought though...

Western Europe. I'm not sure what bonus / sub-continents make sense here, and am contemplating "moving" territories into Central Europe/Meditteranean continents with a possible East/West Med rethink...

Central Europe. At the moment I don't like this colour. I do like the Benelux sub-continet idea, and will try and remember to incorporate that into a future draft.

Eastern Europe and Baltics. Two sepearte continents, with the possibility of having a bigger bonus for holding both.

Asian Borders. The pale areas (+2)are bona fide European Countries, while Turkey and Russia are (currently) not. I want to keep these together, and don't want to put Turkey in the Med.

Balkans According to one site I researched, the 7 dark blue are proper 'Balkan' countries, and Romania, Moldova and Slovenia are sometimes included in this group. I want to keep the countries here as close as possible to real-life, and have taken a bit of creative license to the boundaries to get the names to fit, and am pleased with the end result. I'm thinking of a 'Classic' Asia-equivalent bonus for this continent

In addition to the standard continent bonuses, I have been toying with the idea of disputed area bonuses, which would attract a +1 autodeploy to a 'partner'... ie:
N Ireland+England = +1 on England; N Ireland +Rep Ireland = +1 on Rep Ireland
Cyprus + Greece = +1 on Greece; Cyprus+Turkey=+1 on Turkey
If I do go down this route, then the grey area between Lithuania/Poland (which is technically part of Russia) would become Kaliningrad, which could be disputed by Germany/Russia)

I'm aware this is now a really long post, and need to catch up on some rest, so will finish here!

Keep the suggestions coming! :)
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Postby tim02 on Tue Jan 01, 2008 10:45 pm

I've posted what I think about the continents, and I don't think you have room in the legend for 2 for the british Isles +1 for The Irish republic for each and every one.
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Postby MrBenn on Wed Jan 02, 2008 7:30 am

tim02 wrote:Don't like the way you did the continents in the south, you should have West Med. for all the Islands west of Italy should be a continent by itself.

East Med. should be Turkey Greece, Crete and Cyprus.

You'll be shot before you put Holland with Germany I suggest that you use The low Countries for BeNeLuxMake it there own.

You should now put Italy with all the countries inside part of The Continent Germany is in (I don't know what it is because you haven't redone the legend).

Russia should be part of "Asian borders"

Denmark, Iceland, Romania, Moldova, Slve. and Ireland don't have the same shade as the rest of there continent.

That was my opinion I hope it Helps


I added in the Meditteranean islands, which somebody suggested would improve gameplay/movement in the South. Since doing this, I am also not happy with the Meditteranean continents.

I will make the Low Countries/Benelux a sub-continent of Central Europe in a future draft.

Moving Italy (and San Marino/Vatican City) into Central Europe makes this continet too large (10 Countries), and I want to keep Italy in the Med.

Russia and Turkey are currently 'extended' members of Asian Borders.
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Postby MrBenn on Wed Jan 02, 2008 7:40 am

I like the suggestion for East/West Med, and have mentioned that in an earlier post. This seperation of the Med into East/West is the bit that I want to sort out next, but am not too sure how best to do it...

I'm currently thinking:

Thought A
West Med: Italy, San Marino, Vatican City, Sardinia, Sicily, Malta (6)
East Med: Greece, Crete, Cyprus (3)
With the Balearics/Corsica in the overall Meditteranean continent, but with a +1 bonus for Balearics+Spain and France+Corsica

Thought B
Med: Italy, San Marino, Vatican City, Greece, Crete, Cyprus (6)
Med Islands: Balearics, Corsica, Sardinia, Sicily, Malta (5)

Any help/other ideas are always appreciated!
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Postby tim02 on Wed Jan 02, 2008 11:22 am

I think this map is way to small for overlaping continents, and with the low lands as it's own continent Italy (and the countries within) without any Islands could go into Central Europe and it would only be 7, and the dark blue has seven so it's not to big.

And another Idea split russia in 2 to go with the 2 small continentsit borders, (just throwing out everything here)

And corsica should be able to attack Monaco just to make that con. hard to hold.

Balearic Ilse. should not be part of the spanish continent but should be part of west med.
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Postby MrBenn on Wed Jan 02, 2008 3:20 pm

MrBenn wrote:I like the suggestion for East/West Med, and have mentioned that in an earlier post. This seperation of the Med into East/West is the bit that I want to sort out next, but am not too sure how best to do it...

I'm currently thinking:

Thought A
West Med: Italy, San Marino, Vatican City, Sardinia, Sicily, Malta (6)
East Med: Greece, Crete, Cyprus (3)
With the Balearics/Corsica in the overall Meditteranean continent, but with a +1 bonus for Balearics+Spain and France+Corsica

Thought B
Med: Italy, San Marino, Vatican City, Greece, Crete, Cyprus (6)
Med Islands: Balearics, Corsica, Sardinia, Sicily, Malta (5)

Any help/other ideas are always appreciated!

I'm looking for a consensus opinion...
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Postby MPL on Thu Jan 03, 2008 12:17 pm

A agree with Tim02 and think option b really wouldn't work at all.
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Postby MrBenn on Thu Jan 03, 2008 7:38 pm

Right, I've wasted the evening updating the map, and have a new version ready to post:
Image

Changes:
-Rejigged the colours closer to how I preferred them originally.
-Updated the legend with a new style, and tentative bonuses
-Added and upgraded the ocean routes
-Moved some army circles and territory names
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Postby Coleman on Thu Jan 03, 2008 10:28 pm

I'm impressed enough to move this. I probably could have earlier but wanted to see one more draft. Good work.
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Postby RjBeals on Thu Jan 03, 2008 11:10 pm

MrBenn - I knew we had to keep an eye on you. Excellent first map. Very impressed.

Your water looks great. Your long/latitude lines are a great addition. Although not as smooth as some may like, I think your borders are perfect. Lots of good things, but I'll comment on some of the thing I feel you need to adjust.

1) Sea route dots could be a little more defined. Maybe the dots could be closer together (edit.. the more i look at them, the more i think they are fine).

2) I think it's been mentioned that some of your legend colors are not matching the map.

3) The legend in general I'm just not feeling. It's okay, but it looks too simple. Almost like you created it as an afterthought, in like 3 minutes. It does it's job, but maybe dress it up a little. Maybe it's just the plain bevel and rectangular shape that I don't care for.

4) I think your army circles may be a bit to opaque. Maybe lighten just a tad.

5) I ran into trouble with my map when asked to submit 3-digit armies for review. they overlapped some territory names and I had to adjust. Keep that in mind when your placing circles to the left of the names, "SI" Latvia" "Slovakia"... It was a pain to work around after I had the borders worked out. Just be aware, especially when working the small map.

6) Have you tried or thought of putting some sort of light texture on the territories? Colors look good, but maybe to dress it up a little. What about some mountains to create impassable borders?

I'll keep track of the map MrBenn - don't take my comments harsh, as I think you have done a great job in the past few pages. Anxious to see where you take this.
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Postby edbeard on Thu Jan 03, 2008 11:19 pm

First things first. I really like what you're doing with this map.


1. You still have the issue of smaller countries/city areas being hidden. I'm not sure if a line from the territory name to the city would look tacky, but something probably needs to be done. I'm talking Lux., Liech., SM, VC, Andorra, and Monaco.


2. I would probably recommend moving the Corsica, and Balearic Islands army circles so that the colour of the island underneath is evident.


3. a couple of your water routes need clarification. The first ties in with point one above. Monaco to Corsica. Maybe I'm being silly, but probably a few people will think it connects to France. If you can clear up the city thing a bit somewhat, then maybe this issue goes away.

the second one is the England to France connection. I just didn't see it the first time around. Maybe move it so that the connection is located on the west end and it might become more evident with that open water around there.

I just noticed that you might be able to say the same thing about the other connections in the British Isles. They're probably OK but if they were more visible somehow (maybe just location-wise they just aren't in the optimal spots) that couldn't hurt. Probably the same thing could be said for the Malta connection. With so few dots, I just didn't notice it. Obviously it's going to connect there, but from a visual standpoint, I think it could be better.
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Postby demon7896 on Thu Jan 03, 2008 11:26 pm

if this isn't a revamp, then what'll happen to the other europe map?
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Postby Coleman on Thu Jan 03, 2008 11:27 pm

demon7896 wrote:if this isn't a revamp, then what'll happen to the other europe map?
It will still be there as a bad Europe map, because people like it for some reason.
Warning: You may be reading a really old topic.
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Postby Night Strike on Fri Jan 04, 2008 1:55 am

Coleman wrote:
demon7896 wrote:if this isn't a revamp, then what'll happen to the other europe map?
It will still be there as a bad Europe map, because people like it for some reason.


I don't see this as a bad thing. What I see is the old Europe map as a site classic for up to 6 players with this one being the more "modern" version for up to 8 players. Keep up the good work.

(And I'm one who likes the current Europe.)
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Postby oaktown on Fri Jan 04, 2008 2:10 am

before you go too much further you may want to show us what the small map is going to look like. You've got a lot of very small territories which could be a problem.

And can you please post map sizes on the first post? Otherwise I'll have to have yet another chat with Coleman about requiring this of maps when they leave Map Ideas. :)
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Postby MrBenn on Fri Jan 04, 2008 5:36 am

Oooh... I've been moved (it took me a while to work out where my thread had gone!).

What info do I need to add to the first post? Territory counts etc, and map pixel sizes?? I wasn't expecting to be moved just yet, but will add more detail shortly...

Thanks for the comments RJBeals, Edbeard and Oaktown. I will take your points on board. Before I work out a 'to do' list, I would like to post an update with a new legend idea I had this morning: Hopefully it looks vaguely 'atlassy'

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