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Postby MPL on Thu Jan 03, 2008 12:17 pm

A agree with Tim02 and think option b really wouldn't work at all.
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Postby MrBenn on Thu Jan 03, 2008 7:38 pm

Right, I've wasted the evening updating the map, and have a new version ready to post:
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Changes:
-Rejigged the colours closer to how I preferred them originally.
-Updated the legend with a new style, and tentative bonuses
-Added and upgraded the ocean routes
-Moved some army circles and territory names
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Postby Coleman on Thu Jan 03, 2008 10:28 pm

I'm impressed enough to move this. I probably could have earlier but wanted to see one more draft. Good work.
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Postby RjBeals on Thu Jan 03, 2008 11:10 pm

MrBenn - I knew we had to keep an eye on you. Excellent first map. Very impressed.

Your water looks great. Your long/latitude lines are a great addition. Although not as smooth as some may like, I think your borders are perfect. Lots of good things, but I'll comment on some of the thing I feel you need to adjust.

1) Sea route dots could be a little more defined. Maybe the dots could be closer together (edit.. the more i look at them, the more i think they are fine).

2) I think it's been mentioned that some of your legend colors are not matching the map.

3) The legend in general I'm just not feeling. It's okay, but it looks too simple. Almost like you created it as an afterthought, in like 3 minutes. It does it's job, but maybe dress it up a little. Maybe it's just the plain bevel and rectangular shape that I don't care for.

4) I think your army circles may be a bit to opaque. Maybe lighten just a tad.

5) I ran into trouble with my map when asked to submit 3-digit armies for review. they overlapped some territory names and I had to adjust. Keep that in mind when your placing circles to the left of the names, "SI" Latvia" "Slovakia"... It was a pain to work around after I had the borders worked out. Just be aware, especially when working the small map.

6) Have you tried or thought of putting some sort of light texture on the territories? Colors look good, but maybe to dress it up a little. What about some mountains to create impassable borders?

I'll keep track of the map MrBenn - don't take my comments harsh, as I think you have done a great job in the past few pages. Anxious to see where you take this.
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Postby edbeard on Thu Jan 03, 2008 11:19 pm

First things first. I really like what you're doing with this map.


1. You still have the issue of smaller countries/city areas being hidden. I'm not sure if a line from the territory name to the city would look tacky, but something probably needs to be done. I'm talking Lux., Liech., SM, VC, Andorra, and Monaco.


2. I would probably recommend moving the Corsica, and Balearic Islands army circles so that the colour of the island underneath is evident.


3. a couple of your water routes need clarification. The first ties in with point one above. Monaco to Corsica. Maybe I'm being silly, but probably a few people will think it connects to France. If you can clear up the city thing a bit somewhat, then maybe this issue goes away.

the second one is the England to France connection. I just didn't see it the first time around. Maybe move it so that the connection is located on the west end and it might become more evident with that open water around there.

I just noticed that you might be able to say the same thing about the other connections in the British Isles. They're probably OK but if they were more visible somehow (maybe just location-wise they just aren't in the optimal spots) that couldn't hurt. Probably the same thing could be said for the Malta connection. With so few dots, I just didn't notice it. Obviously it's going to connect there, but from a visual standpoint, I think it could be better.
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Postby demon7896 on Thu Jan 03, 2008 11:26 pm

if this isn't a revamp, then what'll happen to the other europe map?
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Postby Coleman on Thu Jan 03, 2008 11:27 pm

demon7896 wrote:if this isn't a revamp, then what'll happen to the other europe map?
It will still be there as a bad Europe map, because people like it for some reason.
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Postby Night Strike on Fri Jan 04, 2008 1:55 am

Coleman wrote:
demon7896 wrote:if this isn't a revamp, then what'll happen to the other europe map?
It will still be there as a bad Europe map, because people like it for some reason.


I don't see this as a bad thing. What I see is the old Europe map as a site classic for up to 6 players with this one being the more "modern" version for up to 8 players. Keep up the good work.

(And I'm one who likes the current Europe.)
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Postby oaktown on Fri Jan 04, 2008 2:10 am

before you go too much further you may want to show us what the small map is going to look like. You've got a lot of very small territories which could be a problem.

And can you please post map sizes on the first post? Otherwise I'll have to have yet another chat with Coleman about requiring this of maps when they leave Map Ideas. :)
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Postby MrBenn on Fri Jan 04, 2008 5:36 am

Oooh... I've been moved (it took me a while to work out where my thread had gone!).

What info do I need to add to the first post? Territory counts etc, and map pixel sizes?? I wasn't expecting to be moved just yet, but will add more detail shortly...

Thanks for the comments RJBeals, Edbeard and Oaktown. I will take your points on board. Before I work out a 'to do' list, I would like to post an update with a new legend idea I had this morning: Hopefully it looks vaguely 'atlassy'

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Postby Skittles! on Fri Jan 04, 2008 5:39 am

Your legend, with the sides, it looks a bit 'sharp', or whatever the pros call it. Just a bit jaggy.
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Postby MrBenn on Fri Jan 04, 2008 5:44 am

I think that's because there's a 1 pixel black border round the map inset... I could make it bigger, or lose it... something for my 'to do' list when I get round to making one!
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Postby Skittles! on Fri Jan 04, 2008 5:46 am

Shouldn't that little black dead land between Poland and Lithuania be brown because it's part of Russia.. Or I thought it was.
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Postby MrBenn on Fri Jan 04, 2008 6:01 am

Yes, that small bit is Russian - it has the town of Kaliningrad in it.
I was going to make it brown (same as Russia), but thought this would confuse too many people, and opted to grey it out like Africa/Asia. I'm not opposed to making it brown though - what do people think?

While talking about 'stranded' bits of countires, Azerbaijan includes the bit of land to the South of Armenia... I've been waiting for somebody to notice it!
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Postby Skittles! on Fri Jan 04, 2008 6:09 am

Heh, didn't really even look much in that area, but I would of known it was Azerbaijan anyway.

I think it should be Russia because it'll have the same colour is European Russia so eh, it doesn't really bother me.
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Postby gimil on Fri Jan 04, 2008 6:53 am

Someone mentioned about the concern of 3 digits overlapping terr names etc.

I took the liberty of looking over the map to fine which ones would cause those problems:

Latvia
Estonia (possible)
Slovakia
SI
Armenia (Possible)
Moldova
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Postby RjBeals on Fri Jan 04, 2008 8:17 am

MrBenn wrote:... to post an update with a new legend idea I had this morning: Hopefully it looks vaguely 'atlassy'


Yes this legend does look better than the last one.

And speaking of 3-digits, that kind of bothers me, as it kind of limits the maps features. I bet a lot of the maps in play right now would have 3-digits overlapping territory names. I don't think it should make/break a map - just maybe bring it up as a concern, but still let the map pass if it's not able to be fixed.
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Postby gimil on Fri Jan 04, 2008 8:35 am

RjBeals wrote:
MrBenn wrote:... to post an update with a new legend idea I had this morning: Hopefully it looks vaguely 'atlassy'


Yes this legend does look better than the last one.

And speaking of 3-digits, that kind of bothers me, as it kind of limits the maps features. I bet a lot of the maps in play right now would have 3-digits overlapping territory names. I don't think it should make/break a map - just maybe bring it up as a concern, but still let the map pass if it's not able to be fixed.


its become a cause for of a concern due to the introduction of the color blind setting which adds that extra digit. So i feel it is a concern that should be addressed in all maps.
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Postby RjBeals on Fri Jan 04, 2008 8:44 am

All the more reason to allow bigger maps.
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Postby gimil on Fri Jan 04, 2008 8:47 am

RjBeals wrote:All the more reason to allow bigger maps.


If you had been keeping up with discussion youll have known that the size guideline is going to be revised. There looking into changing the user interface before making any realy desision.
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Postby yeti_c on Fri Jan 04, 2008 1:27 pm

I'm loving this map...

The only thing I think might be a concern is the Faroe Islands...

Perhaps make it slightly bigger so you can tell it's purple and not pink...

Actually after more thought - the other thing is that it's hard to see what borders some of the smaller territories...

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Postby MrBenn on Fri Jan 04, 2008 4:01 pm

Thanks, as always, for the feedback... I've got a small update to give:
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-I've made the Faroe Islands a smidgen bigger so that the purple shows up better.
-The borders around Monaco have been tidied/cleaned to make that a bit clearer
-I have redone a few borders in the Balkans (Bosnia/Montenegro/Albania) to help clarify what connects to what
-Some names/circles have been moved to help avoid 3-digit-overlapping
-The opacity on the army circles has been reduced, and I've added a dark tinge to help them show up on pale areas

I have also done a brief small map
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-I've taken off the army circles for now, as I can't be bothered to do them tonight (and I'm contemplating seeing what the map looks like without them)
-I've added a note in the corner...
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Postby Coleman on Fri Jan 04, 2008 4:04 pm

The new army circles are ace. Like them a whole bunch. Good work.
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Postby gimil on Fri Jan 04, 2008 4:06 pm

The baltics and central europe continent colors concern he as being a little to similar
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Postby MrBenn on Fri Jan 04, 2008 4:11 pm

One's yellow, the other's green. I muted the yellow before changing the army circles - should I change it back to how it was on p4, or do you think it was still a problem there?
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