Conquer Club

_big_easy_ wrote:

hulmey wrote:

_big_easy_ wrote:Just played a 2 player game where the other guy dropped 3 European Homelands to my 1.

Needless to say, I lost fairly easily.
Would have been even quicker had he realized to attack the Landing Points his first turn.
From Rd 3 on, he was getting 24 auto-deployed (4 x 3EuroHomeland, 3 x 3LandPoints + 3 Ind.Homeland),
while I was getting 16 auto-deployed (4 x 1EuroHomeland, 1 x 3LandPoint, 3 x 3Ind.Homelands)

That's a pretty big discrepancy for a 2 player game.
I think it would improve the gameplay if you could make the distribution of European Homelands as equal for 2-5 players.

Thats coz ur a bad player....Its better to start out with the native kingdoms than the homelands.........

So why did you pick Britain in your tourney?

haha, you cant choose what country you start with lol

rocky mountain wrote:personally, i've played a few games on this map, and i do not find it imbalanced. the gameplay was perfectly fine in my eyes.
for one game i started with 2 homelands on each side (europe and native) and i lost.
once i started with 3 european homelands, and won (so native homelands are not necessarily better)
on the last game, a started with the same as case one, only i won.

it doesn't really depend on the homelands, but how you use them. they each have their advantages.
that is all

On etiny niggle... my tired eyes got confused by the 2 N's and S's on the ports, and I thought I was ttacking North Pacific Port from South Atlantic port (duh!)
Perhaps you could add an A/P to the territory label to distinguish them better (ie North Pacific seaport could have NP on the map instead of just N; North Altlantic Seaoart could have NA on the map instead of just N - and the same for the Southern ones)?

i think

MrBenn wrote:North Pacific seaport could have NP on the map instead of just N; North Altlantic Seaoart could have NA on the map instead of just N - and the same for the Southern ones

is a good idea. (if it's possible)

hulmey wrote:

rocky mountain wrote:personally, i've played a few games on this map, and i do not find it imbalanced. the gameplay was perfectly fine in my eyes.
for one game i started with 2 homelands on each side (europe and native) and i lost.
once i started with 3 european homelands, and won (so native homelands are not necessarily better)
on the last game, a started with the same as case one, only i won.

it doesn't really depend on the homelands, but how you use them. they each have their advantages.
that is all

MrBenn wrote:On etiny niggle... my tired eyes got confused by the 2 N's and S's on the ports, and I thought I was ttacking North Pacific Port from South Atlantic port (duh!)
Perhaps you could add an A/P to the territory label to distinguish them better (ie North Pacific seaport could have NP on the map instead of just N; North Altlantic Seaoart could have NA on the map instead of just N - and the same for the Southern ones)?

there is a label on the actuall sea saying "pacific" and "atlantic"

As far as combinations of things go I'm not sure how things fall, but in a 1v1 or 4v4 if it is all natives vs europe somehow natives should always win because the amount of borders they need to defened is small and the large territory bonus really add up fast.

Are there any glaring problems not 1v1 related you'd like me to take a look at?

Having played a couple of 1v1's -> I think this map is pretty balanced...

I think you are at an advantage - if you get more "Homelands"...

But that's the drop isn't it.

C.

Coleman wrote:Are there any glaring problems not 1v1 related you'd like me to take a look at?

Look back a few posts and read my analysis re. probability of taking someone out on the first turn. My opinion was that you would like "the cook's gambit" to be about as likely as it ended up being for AoR:Might - but now you can give your own opinion

PS Welcome back

I like the map - but I think that the bonuses might be a bit big...

I ended the game with 40 odd territories (lots still neutral) and a +80 bonus...

Perhaps toning down the huge auto deploy bonuses... - and make it 3 territories to get +1 bonus?

C.

I think that the europeans nearly always win, in nearly all of the games I have played on home world I do not think I have seen a homeworld win.

max is gr8 wrote:I think that the europeans nearly always win, in nearly all of the games I have played on home world I do not think I have seen a homeworld win.

That's not like that. In 4-8 players game europeans will have advantage, that's for sure. But when 2 or 3 players are playing on the NW then homelands will have advantage if you know how to use it of course.

I've not played many games on this map yet, but I just wanted to tell you guys this map is fricking brilliant!
I think, as with all maps, the bonuses will be something that people get used to and learn to work with; And the gameplay, at least for the few games I'm in, sets this board in a category by itself. -Certain to inspire some creative ideas from other cartos.
Well done!

I'm just finishing up my first game on this map, and I have to say this is one of my favorite maps I've encountered so far. I've always loved Feudal War, but this is even better.

Strange thing; probably a BOB problem--BOB's reporting each person's territory count as 1 less than it actually is. Each player started with "0", and now each of the eliminated players have "-1" territs...

im not very good at this map and i LOVE IT, pity my points have dropped from 2400 to 1800 (damn you coleman)

Ditocoaf wrote:I'm just finishing up my first game on this map, and I have to say this is one of my favorite maps I've encountered so far. I've always loved Feudal War, but this is even better.

Strange thing; probably a BOB problem--BOB's reporting each person's territory count as 1 less than it actually is. Each player started with "0", and now each of the eliminated players have "-1" territs...

Yeah - I'm aware of this issue and I'm considering a fix...

C.

Astoria wrote: That's not like that. In 4-8 players game europeans will have advantage, that's for sure. But when 2 or 3 players are playing on the NW then homelands will have advantage if you know how to use it of course.

Wrong! In a 4 player game with cards, the best setting is one EU, one native homeland.

But overall, this is probably the best (fun, balance) that ever came out of our foundry

I think if you could move French Landing Point armies indicator a little to the left because when there's double digit armies on it the numbers slightly creep over to the Old World inset and it's kind of annoying.

Great map though, I'm really loving it.

lunatic96 wrote:I think if you could move French Landing Point armies indicator a little to the left because when there's double digit armies on it the numbers slightly creep over to the Old World inset and it's kind of annoying.

Great map though, I'm really loving it.

Yay something easy to fix.

I'm recognizing the imbalance in an 8 player game. The only good solution for natives is to work together early on, which is not something most of CC is of the mindset to do. From my observations there is a greater tendency for natives to attack each other even more in these games, so players often shoot themselves in the foot so to speak.

Since I can't brainwash all of CC into playing better, I've looked at gameplay solutions but none I can think of would improve an 8 player situation without damaging balance in 4 player and below games.

I think one problem is that the Mapuche homeland can easily attack Portugal and Holland, where the other 3 natives really only have 1 country to attack. I'm not really sure how you can fix that, but it seems like it slightly overpowers Mapuche.

lunatic96 wrote:I think one problem is that the Mapuche homeland can easily attack Portugal and Holland, where the other 3 natives really only have 1 country to attack. I'm not really sure how you can fix that, but it seems like it slightly overpowers Mapuche.

Mapuche also has to content with 2 ports, so i can be attacked from all sides by all enemys.

I apologize if what I'm about to say has already been said.

I think it is a huge disadvantage to the players who get North American homelands vs. players who get European Homelands.

Now, I know you can attack places and hold a certain number for a bonus, but getting a Landing Point has secured you 3 more armies each turn versus the player that didn't get one.

I'm currently in a 4 player game now where Player 1 and 2 got 2 European Homelands, Player 3 got 1, and I got none. Looking at the game now, there are huge number differences between me and them. Maybe they just had really good dice, but that may have something to do with it.

The one thing I considered and tested was giving the natives one more army in auto-deploy but it was too much. I really am at a loss to correct it while maintaining 8 player balance.

I just sent a message to conquerclub staff, about maps like this.

The first or second game I played on this map I figured out this problem too, of the unfortunate stacking of odds based on random starting position.

The map, as it looks, seems like it would be more fun if the odds were leveled out, but I just skimmed a bit and read what Coleman typed about having no idea how to fix it.
It's good to hear that the attempt is being made, even if unsuccessfully.


I suggested to the conquerclub staff an idea (which may be totally shot down) of separating the maps on the site according to their special wild bonuses.
Having the point scoring and wins/loss count for them separated (or entirely thrown out) from the points scoring and win/loss count of standard maps would make it more suitable to people who are wanting to play a game that is mostly risk-like, or playing a special map that has special features!

Yes, this is just one idea. I had another that I suggested- if these maps were separated, it would then make it possible to implement a designer-choice of forced game options like always fog-on, or no-cards, or only doubles, or any variety of setting that a designer chose.

If there was such a thing, and the maps could be customized in that fashion by the designer, I might put the time into learning and building a map myself. I do like designing stuff

Anyway, aside from the challenge of winning against european players, I think this map is fun.

motecap wrote:I suggested to the conquerclub staff an idea (which may be totally shot down) of separating the maps on the site according to their special wild bonuses.

There have been lots of suggestions about dividing the maps by complexity/style/them etc... although none of them have yet to be implemented by lackattack yet
Check out the foundry discussion topics if you want to

Anyway, aside from the challenge of winning against european players, I think this map is fun.

Glad you're enjoying the map though