CC City Mogul [Quenched]

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Re: CC City Mogul [Quenched]

Postby t-o-m on Sat Sep 13, 2008 8:51 am

I think people should be able to just about get the arsonist, at the start - but it would leave him with around 10-20 armies, too weak to do anything.
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Re: CC City Mogul [Quenched]

Postby yeti_c on Sat Sep 13, 2008 9:23 am

There are 8 starts - remember that if you play 2 players - then you will get 4 of those each?!

Bit surprised that houses are starting with 3's though - I haven't got time to take a look til tomorrow though.

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Re: CC City Mogul [Quenched]

Postby DiM on Sat Sep 13, 2008 12:22 pm

yeti_c wrote:There are 8 starts - remember that if you play 2 players - then you will get 4 of those each?!

Bit surprised that houses are starting with 3's though - I haven't got time to take a look til tomorrow though.

C.


actually i would have liked it so that each players starts with just 1 house not split them equally. i thought starting positions does this. :?
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Re: CC City Mogul [Quenched]

Postby Kemmler on Sat Sep 13, 2008 3:03 pm

for goodness sake leave the map as it is... at least until I get to general...

I love it.
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Re: CC City Mogul [Quenched]

Postby Kemmler on Sat Sep 13, 2008 3:06 pm

DiM wrote:actually something is wrong here.
i have been gone for a long time and i don't exactly remember how xml works but each player was supposed to start with a home and a shop of the same colour as the home in either the E or the W quarter. that would have meant a bonus of just 40. thus making the arsonist's 50 neutrals big enough to avoid round 1 trashings like benjikat experienced.

instead i see people are starting with lots of shops. that's not good.

from what i remember yeti should have done this with starting positions or something like that but i don't know more details.
hopefully when yeti comes he can sort this as i don't like it one bit :(

sorry guys.


it works well, but just not for sequential. freestyle is fine tho.

please don't change it.
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Re: CC City Mogul [Quenched]

Postby Herakilla on Sat Sep 13, 2008 3:19 pm

yeti_c wrote:There are 8 starts - remember that if you play 2 players - then you will get 4 of those each?!

Bit surprised that houses are starting with 3's though - I haven't got time to take a look til tomorrow though.

C.


a third are neutral arent they?
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Re: CC City Mogul [Quenched]

Postby Kemmler on Sat Sep 13, 2008 3:20 pm

the ones next to the arsonists are - 4 of them i think
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Re: CC City Mogul [Quenched]

Postby Incandenza on Sat Sep 13, 2008 5:49 pm

Kemmler wrote:it works well, but just not for sequential. freestyle is fine tho.

please don't change it.


If it doesn't work for sequential, it needs to be changed.
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Re: CC City Mogul [Quenched]

Postby DiM on Sat Sep 13, 2008 7:05 pm

it will be changed as soon as yeti takes a look at the xml.
i'm trying to remember how xml works but unfortunatelly it's a memory long gone :(
i'm clueless on this one.
hopefully yeti will be able to fix the starting positions and the noob farming will stop :mrgreen:
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Re: CC City Mogul [Quenched]

Postby azezzo on Sun Sep 14, 2008 2:06 am

congratulations to you guys in the map foundry, this is a good map
so many different good strategys to employ depending on the game style and other players approach.
leave it the way it is
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Re: CC City Mogul [Quenched]

Postby yeti_c on Sun Sep 14, 2008 3:54 am

DiM wrote:
yeti_c wrote:There are 8 starts - remember that if you play 2 players - then you will get 4 of those each?!

Bit surprised that houses are starting with 3's though - I haven't got time to take a look til tomorrow though.

C.


actually i would have liked it so that each players starts with just 1 house not split them equally. i thought starting positions does this. :?


Can't be done...

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Re: CC City Mogul [Quenched]

Postby yeti_c on Sun Sep 14, 2008 3:56 am

Herakilla wrote:
yeti_c wrote:There are 8 starts - remember that if you play 2 players - then you will get 4 of those each?!

Bit surprised that houses are starting with 3's though - I haven't got time to take a look til tomorrow though.

C.


a third are neutral arent they?


No - The starting positions code doesn't assign Starting Positions to neutrals. - A third Neutrals are only available by limiting the starts with starting neutrals. - Note this cannot be done on this map - as 2 territories are required as a start.

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Re: CC City Mogul [Quenched]

Postby yeti_c on Sun Sep 14, 2008 4:05 am

OK - there are a couple of errors in the XML...

The following territories are missing their Neutral starting values...

W1, W3, W5, W7, E1, E3, E5 & E7.

Code: Select all
<territory>
  <name>W1</name>
  <borders>
  <border>W2</border>
  <border>W4-Arsonist</border>
  </borders>
<coordinates>
         <smallx>124</smallx>
         <smally>435</smally>
         <largex>167</largex>
         <largey>573</largey>
  </coordinates>
  </territory>

<territory>
  <name>W3</name>
  <borders>
  <border>W2</border>
  <border>W4-Arsonist</border>
  </borders>
<coordinates>
         <smallx>183</smallx>
         <smally>435</smally>
         <largex>245</largex>
         <largey>573</largey>
  </coordinates>
  </territory>

<territory>
  <name>W5</name>
  <borders>
  <border>W6</border>
  <border>W4-Arsonist</border>
  </borders>
<coordinates>
         <smallx>124</smallx>
         <smally>512</smally>
         <largex>167</largex>
         <largey>675</largey>
  </coordinates>
  </territory>

<territory>
  <name>W7</name>
  <borders>
  <border>W6</border>
  <border>W4-Arsonist</border>
  </borders>
<coordinates>
         <smallx>183</smallx>
         <smally>512</smally>
         <largex>245</largex>
         <largey>675</largey>
  </coordinates>
  </territory>


<territory>
  <name>E1</name>
  <borders>
  <border>E2</border>
  <border>E4-Arsonist</border>
  </borders>
<coordinates>
         <smallx>394</smallx>
         <smally>329</smally>
         <largex>527</largex>
         <largey>431</largey>
  </coordinates>
  </territory>

<territory>
  <name>E3</name>
  <borders>
  <border>E2</border>
  <border>E4-Arsonist</border>
  </borders>
<coordinates>
         <smallx>454</smallx>
         <smally>330</smally>
         <largex>606</largex>
         <largey>433</largey>
  </coordinates>
  </territory>

<territory>
  <name>E5</name>
  <borders>
  <border>E6</border>
  <border>E4-Arsonist</border>
  </borders>
<coordinates>
         <smallx>394</smallx>
         <smally>408</smally>
         <largex>527</largex>
         <largey>536</largey>
  </coordinates>
  </territory>

<territory>
  <name>E7</name>
  <borders>
  <border>E6</border>
  <border>E4-Arsonist</border>
  </borders>
<coordinates>
         <smallx>453</smallx>
         <smally>408</smally>
         <largex>605</largex>
         <largey>536</largey>
  </coordinates>
  </territory>


Which means that some of these squares will be assigned to players randomly - and as they're right next to the Arsonist - this makes things a lot unfair for 2nd to play.

DiM - what Neutrals should be on these squares?

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Re: CC City Mogul [Quenched]

Postby DiM on Sun Sep 14, 2008 8:37 am

so that's why people have been getting lots' of shops from the start. damn that's bad.


it should be like this:

1. each player starts with a house (20 troops) and a shop (30 troops) in the same quadrant (ex: P4 and P2)
2. everything else is neutral (shops 30; subs 30; arsonist 30; mall 150, manor 150)

once yeti changes the W1, W3, W5, W7, E1, E3, E5 & E7 neutrals they will no longer start as player terits so people will no longer get 200 troops from the start.

besides that change i'd like to also change some other stuff:
1. house bonus and shop bonus are autodeployed on their respective terit. this means at start people will no longer have a big army to put on one terit and march on the enemy.

2. the other bonuses which aren't present from the start (5 for empty lots; 20 for neighbourhood and 20 for same colour shops) are up for debate:
a. all of them are free to deploy anywhere. since they come later in the stage they don't influence the start of the game and because they are free to place anywhere they allow the liberty in choosing your course of action
b. all those bonuses are autodeployed on the house, thus making the house as the economical centre of your empire (a realistic approach). this cuts the freedom of movement but it adds more a more tactical aspect where you have to manage your resources from home and send them where they are needed.

i would like to get some input on these aspects and in the meantime i'll ask yeti to change the W1, W3, W5, W7, E1, E3, E5 & E7 to neutral 30 and to tell me if points 1 and 2 a/b are possible.


PS: the W1, W3, W5, W7, E1, E3, E5 & E7 problem is entirely my fault as i was the one responsible for putting the neutrals there. sorry guys.
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Re: CC City Mogul [Quenched]

Postby Kemmler on Sun Sep 14, 2008 8:44 am

DiM wrote:so that's why people have been getting lots' of shops from the start. damn that's bad.


it should be like this:

1. each player starts with a house (20 troops) and a shop (30 troops) in the same quadrant (ex: P4 and P2)
2. everything else is neutral (shops 30; subs 30; arsonist 30; mall 150, manor 150)

once yeti changes the W1, W3, W5, W7, E1, E3, E5 & E7 neutrals they will no longer start as player terits so people will no longer get 200 troops from the start.

besides that change i'd like to also change some other stuff:
1. house bonus and shop bonus are autodeployed on their respective terit. this means at start people will no longer have a big army to put on one terit and march on the enemy.

2. the other bonuses which aren't present from the start (5 for empty lots; 20 for neighbourhood and 20 for same colour shops) are up for debate:
a. all of them are free to deploy anywhere. since they come later in the stage they don't influence the start of the game and because they are free to place anywhere they allow the liberty in choosing your course of action
b. all those bonuses are autodeployed on the house, thus making the house as the economical centre of your empire (a realistic approach). this cuts the freedom of movement but it adds more a more tactical aspect where you have to manage your resources from home and send them where they are needed.

i would like to get some input on these aspects and in the meantime i'll ask yeti to change the W1, W3, W5, W7, E1, E3, E5 & E7 to neutral 30 and to tell me if points 1 and 2 a/b are possible.


PS: the W1, W3, W5, W7, E1, E3, E5 & E7 problem is entirely my fault as i was the one responsible for putting the neutrals there. sorry guys.



you'll ruin the map mate. And I found it so fun. The worst thing would be the autodeploy, what can you do with an autodeploy?
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Re: CC City Mogul [Quenched]

Postby DiM on Sun Sep 14, 2008 8:53 am

you like it cause you're noob farming on this map ;)

i want this map to be as strategic as possible. not a map where you get a huge stack from round 1 and pummel an unsuspecting noob and get 5 points.

so once W1, W3, W5, W7, E1, E3, E5 & E7 are solved people will get fewer armies. in 8p there will be just 40 armies to deploy, this means if they are free to deploy, a player could put 40 on top of 30 in P2 then proceed towards yellow player. he has to attack 70 vs 30 vs 30 vs 20 to eliminate him.
it's possible but at a huge cost as he will remain crippled and perhaps other player might eliminate him next. nevertheless i have seen people do it and i don't like it.
and in 1v1 games this problem is even bigger as the guy that starts the game will surely manage to break down some of the other player's bonuses.

that's why shop and house will be autodeployed. this will make sure no player is eliminated in round 1 and that no player will even lose a bonus before starting his game. it's fair for everybody.

for the rest of the bonuses i'm inclined to keep the free for deployment
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Re: CC City Mogul [Quenched]

Postby Kemmler on Sun Sep 14, 2008 8:57 am

autodeploy leaves it completely down to dice dim. you have only a few options of places to go, whoever gets luckier and captures more wins. retarded.
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Re: CC City Mogul [Quenched]

Postby DiM on Sun Sep 14, 2008 11:28 am

Kemmler wrote:autodeploy leaves it completely down to dice dim. you have only a few options of places to go, whoever gets luckier and captures more wins. retarded.


the starting bonus needs to be autodeployed because as i said in the earlier post whoever goes first has a very big advantage and that sucks.

imagine a 1v1 game where each player starts with 3 shops and 3 homes. player 1 gets a bonus of 120 troops deploys them on a shop near the other player and with his 150 troops (30+120) he makes a lot of damage.
so the other player even before he gets to start the game is already at a big disadvantage.

however i get your point and i think a mixture of strategy plus fast action can be achieved by making all the starting bonuses autodeployed but making all other bonuses free.

so it's like this, in an 8p game each player will get a home and a shop (ex: P2 and P4) and nothing else. these bonuses will be autodeployed. this prevents round 1 bashing.
then all other bonuses are free to place anywhere, including bonuses from other shops. for example i start with P2 and P4. in round 1 i get the bonuses autodeployed and i conquer 2 empty lots and a subway. in round 2 i get the P2 and P4 autodeployed but i get the bonus from empty lots to place anywhere. then comes the best part, i conquer another subway and a shop in E or W. the bonus from that shop will not be autodeployed it will be on hand. i think this solution is the best because it prevents round 1 bashing and at the same time allows people to get huge stacks later on as well as providing an incentive to go twards the E and W neighbourhoods.

i like this, i realy do.

yeti, please make the following xml corrections:
1. W1, W3, W5, W7, E1, E3, E5 & E7 to start with 30 neutrals.
2. starting positions are autodeployed
3. all other bonuses are on hand.
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Re: CC City Mogul [Quenched]

Postby yeti_c on Sun Sep 14, 2008 12:22 pm

DiM wrote:yeti, please make the following xml corrections:
1. W1, W3, W5, W7, E1, E3, E5 & E7 to start with 30 neutrals.
2. starting positions are autodeployed
3. all other bonuses are on hand.


Consider it done.

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Re: CC City Mogul [Quenched]

Postby yeti_c on Sun Sep 14, 2008 12:30 pm

http://www.fileden.com/files/2008/1/19/ ... Mogul3.xml

checker wrote:Test results:

Summary: 0 errors and 0 warnings detected in CC_City_Mogul2.xml (65 continents, 83 territories)


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Re: CC City Mogul [Quenched]

Postby Kemmler on Sun Sep 14, 2008 12:40 pm

Gonna stop playing it now and go back to Feudal
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Re: CC City Mogul [Quenched]

Postby hulmey on Sun Sep 14, 2008 12:46 pm

Kemmler wrote:Gonna stop playing it now and go back to Feudal


go cry to mommie :-^
[img]http://img801.imageshack.us/img801/9761/41922610151374166770386.jpg[/mg]
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Re: CC City Mogul [Quenched]

Postby Kemmler on Sun Sep 14, 2008 12:47 pm

hulmey wrote:
Kemmler wrote:Gonna stop playing it now and go back to Feudal


go cry to mommie :-^


lol, but the farming was fun whilst it lasted... 97% win ratio
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Re: CC City Mogul [Quenched]

Postby t-o-m on Sun Sep 14, 2008 12:49 pm

Lol, you just pwned at it with your speed kemmler.
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Re: CC City Mogul [Quenched]

Postby DiM on Sun Sep 14, 2008 5:24 pm

thanks a lot yeti.
when i get home i'll also do the graphic changes and submit them to lack.
hopefully i'll be able to find the psd file :?


kemmler, as i said before i made this map with the thought of equal chances balance and strategy in mind. i didn't make it for people to noob farm on it.

if you are a good player you'll still keep your winning percentage because the map will require much more thought and strategy.
“In the beginning God said, the four-dimensional divergence of an antisymmetric, second rank tensor equals zero, and there was light, and it was good. And on the seventh day he rested.”- Michio Kaku
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