Treasures of Galápagos [Quenched]

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Re: Treasures of Galápagos [Quenched]

Postby danalan on Mon Aug 25, 2008 11:51 pm

Weird bonuses in game Game 3083920

UselessTriviaMan starts on Reef 4, and takes Lugger Fernela -- before the map changes.

2008-08-21 20:15:31 - UselessTriviaMan gets bonus of -1 armies added to Reef 4
2008-08-21 20:15:31 - UselessTriviaMan receives 3 armies for 2 territories
2008-08-21 20:15:41 - UselessTriviaMan deployed 3 armies on FE1
2008-08-21 20:16:05 - UselessTriviaMan attacked Lugger Fernela from FE1 and conquered it from neutral player
2008-08-21 20:16:21 - UselessTriviaMan gets a card

Then the next player goes, note that Gabriel is on Reef 3:
2008-08-22 12:11:02 - Gabriel gets bonus of -1 armies added to Reef 3
2008-08-22 12:11:02 - Gabriel receives 3 armies for 2 territories
2008-08-22 12:11:07 - Gabriel deployed 3 armies on MA3

Then the rest of us go, and then:
UselessTriviaMan gets the bonus for his reef+lugger, then also gets a bonus for Gabriel's reef+a lugger he doesn't own.
2008-08-23 21:37:50 - UselessTriviaMan gets bonus of -1 armies added to Reef 4
2008-08-23 21:37:50 - UselessTriviaMan receives 1 armies for holding Lugger Fernela
2008-08-23 21:37:50 - UselessTriviaMan receives 2 armies for holding Reef 3 and Lugger Genocruz
2008-08-23 21:37:50 - UselessTriviaMan receives 3 armies for 3 territories
2008-08-23 21:40:29 - UselessTriviaMan deployed 6 armies on Lugger Fernela

Using this bonus, he takes the lugger he just got the bonus for:
2008-08-23 21:41:25 - UselessTriviaMan attacked Lugger Genocruz from Lugger Fernela and conquered it from neutral player
2008-08-23 21:42:08 - UselessTriviaMan gets a card

Pretty neat trick!
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Re: Treasures of Galápagos [Quenched]

Postby joriki on Tue Aug 26, 2008 12:03 am

rom_tobins wrote:joriki you shouldn't feel so offended because of the change, first of all...maps are never really changes after they have been put into game play...and i'm sure no one new the uploading the changes would have such an affect on the already started games...

Most of what I wrote wasn't about what people knew before uploading the changes but about the reaction after the effect had become apparent. But at least the person who wrote the game engine must have known that chaos would result if you insert new territories in the middle of the XML; it would have been a good idea to talk to that person before changing a map in mid-game.

I don't feel offended, I just feel less trusting, which is unfortunate. Trust is hard to build and easy to destroy. You write that maps are never really changed after they have been put into game play, but in this case they were -- it's going to take a long time until the people whose map was changed mid-game will regain the trust that this is unlikely to happen again. Especially if no-one PMs them about this and they're left to wonder. I'm following this thread and can get a sense of what's being done about this; a lot of the people affected aren't; they're the ones we should be worrying about.

I think the best thing to do to restore the trust would be to implement a mechanism for changing maps without affecting existing games, then make an announcement that this is in place and therefore there will never be a reason to do this sort of thing again.
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Re: Treasures of Galápagos [Quenched]

Postby mrbang on Tue Aug 26, 2008 1:46 am

http://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=3103542#map-cell

Southeast corner Reef 9 and ES 2 seem to be "dead"
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Re: Treasures of Galápagos [Quenched]

Postby joriki on Tue Aug 26, 2008 1:50 am

mrbang wrote:http://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=3103542#map-cell

Southeast corner Reef 9 and ES 2 seem to be "dead"


These are the last two territories in the XML file; they now have indices that didn't exist when the game started, so the game state probably doesn't contain anything about them.
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Re: Treasures of Galápagos [Quenched]

Postby Shatners Bassoon on Tue Aug 26, 2008 10:55 am

something very wrong here.

Game 3088775
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Dead Island bug

Postby jwithington on Tue Aug 26, 2008 11:39 am

I am having this issue as well.

Game 3124081

The greasemonkey extension is picking up that my opponent has three more territories, but i think they might be the ghost ones.

I also think that the game as a whole is completely messed up. I can't see how my armies could possibly be where they are appearing.

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mrbang wrote:http://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=3103542#map-cell
Southeast corner Reef 9 and ES 2 seem to be "dead"
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Re: Treasures of Galápagos [Quenched]

Postby joriki on Tue Aug 26, 2008 12:05 pm

I don't think there's a need for further bug reports in this thread -- it's known that things are going wrong because the map has been changed in mid-game -- I suggest that we focus this discussion on how to deal with this and similar situations in the future and only post further bug reports if it turns out that things are also going wrong in games that were started after the map was changed (i.e. roughly one day ago).
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Re: Treasures of Galápagos [Quenched]

Postby rom_tobins on Tue Aug 26, 2008 4:42 pm

Well i had a quick look at games started after the map was changed and everything seems alright in them, so it just sucks for those 200 something games that had already started before the map changed....I my self had 2 games...1 of witch i'm completely screwed because i use to have reef 9 so now my lugger and oasis do me no good, not to mention i tried to kill a player and followed his trail of territories he made an not finding the last 1...
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Re: Treasures of Galápagos [Quenched]

Postby Iccinot Nabrus on Tue Aug 26, 2008 6:08 pm

Game # 3114041.

Multiple map inconsistencies that myself and other players have pointed out in the chat.
I am wondering if the game will be scrapped or do we just play through and hope things go our way? I am almost dead anyway and it is only round 2. :o)
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Re: Treasures of Galápagos [Quenched]

Postby blakebowling on Wed Aug 27, 2008 9:46 am

just FYI, lack made a mistake when he uploaded the new map files, and he didn't delete the old one, so it's using a combination of the two, overlooking some territories.
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Re: Treasures of Galápagos [Quenched]

Postby cairnswk on Wed Aug 27, 2008 5:42 pm

blakebowling wrote:just FYI, lack made a mistake when he uploaded the new map files, and he didn't delete the old one, so it's using a combination of the two, overlooking some territories.

Blake....lack might say that, but actually he was never informed when i gave him the new update that there was added terts on the new map and xml. so still my prob as far as i can see. :oops:
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Re: Treasures of Galápagos [Quenched]

Postby jackin_u_up on Wed Aug 27, 2008 6:36 pm

Could you please kill our game...its all jacked up Game 3088313



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Re: Treasures of Galápagos [Quenched]

Postby cairnswk on Fri Aug 29, 2008 7:13 pm

jackin_u_up wrote:Could you please kill our game...its all jacked up Game 3088313
...

I don't have the powers to do that...suggest you play on, you are still in a good position....even though other might not be. :)
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Re: Treasures of Galápagos [Quenched]

Postby The Neon Peon on Wed Sep 17, 2008 6:34 pm

This map is still off balance. I started out with reef 8, and was able to take the West Isabella in the first few rounds. Once I did that, I quickly won the game even when I did lose a 9 v 1 or so every turn afterwards. ALL fresh water territories should have 10 neutrals on them. Had it had 10 instead of 5, my opponent would have taken it from me as soon as I got rid of those neutrals. because I would have wasted a whole lot more men.
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Re: Treasures of Galápagos [Quenched]

Postby cairnswk on Thu Sep 18, 2008 6:39 am

The Neon Peon wrote:This map is still off balance. I started out with reef 8, and was able to take the West Isabella in the first few rounds. Once I did that, I quickly won the game even when I did lose a 9 v 1 or so every turn afterwards. ALL fresh water territories should have 10 neutrals on them. Had it had 10 instead of 5, my opponent would have taken it from me as soon as I got rid of those neutrals. because I would have wasted a whole lot more men.


Maybe everyone's die were faulty in your game. No-one else seems to be complaining yet. ;)
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Re: Treasures of Galápagos [Quenched]

Postby ZeekLTK on Thu Oct 02, 2008 10:49 am

The Neon Peon wrote:This map is still off balance. I started out with reef 8, and was able to take the West Isabella in the first few rounds. Once I did that, I quickly won the game even when I did lose a 9 v 1 or so every turn afterwards. ALL fresh water territories should have 10 neutrals on them. Had it had 10 instead of 5, my opponent would have taken it from me as soon as I got rid of those neutrals. because I would have wasted a whole lot more men.


I think it is off balance too. Some of the reefs are just too close to others. In my game on this map a player was eliminated by another player in Round 3 (the player that was eliminated had only taken 2 turns!)

To me, you shouldn't be able to get eliminated so quickly, especially since 99% of the board is neutrals to start with. If it's going to be all neutrals, it should be like New World or Feudal Wars where there are HUGE stacks of neutrals separating each player's starting point, so that it's harder to reach them, etc. and also so that a few bad rolls against the neutrals can be overcome. In this game it appears the eliminated player had a few unlucky rolls against neutrals which weakened his army, then the other guy found him and eliminated him in the same turn that he found him (and the guy who eliminated him only got 3 armies to start the turn, so he probably didn't have more than 5-6 armies in total to use to attack the eliminated player).

So, to me, seems to be that this map is very un-balanced for something like this to happen.

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Re: Treasures of Galápagos [Quenched]

Postby ZeekLTK on Mon Oct 06, 2008 2:01 pm

Yeah this map is horribly unbalanced. There is now some guy in our game who got 18 armies and then 23 armies on consecutive turns while everyone else is getting 5-8. The big cluster of land on the left side of the map means that whoever starts in Reef 4 is going to win every game.

I think the only thing to rectify this is (other than completely remaking the map) changing the number of neutrals. On luggers with 10 armies no one even bothers going for them. They are just treated as "impassible obstacles" and everyone just goes around them because it is not worth it to take them when you could take 2-3 islands for the same amount of armies. Some land only had like 3 neutrals on them and gave the same, or better, bonus! Each land (since they are all bonuses) should have at least 10 armies as well, if not more (maybe 20-25 armies on the land that have "national treasures" AND "fresh water" as those are the most sought after territories). Or you might consider having some land that doesn't have bonuses (aka, take some bonuses off the big island cluster near Reef 4) to balance it better.
Last edited by ZeekLTK on Mon Oct 06, 2008 2:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Treasures of Galápagos [Quenched]

Postby militant on Mon Oct 06, 2008 2:05 pm

Cairns, I tink the map is smashing, really enjoy playing on it. Thanks for taking the time to make it :D
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Re: Treasures of Galápagos [Quenched]

Postby cairnswk on Mon Oct 06, 2008 3:00 pm

ZeekLTK wrote:Yeah this map is horribly unbalanced. There is now some guy in our game who got 18 armies and then 23 armies on consecutive turns while everyone else is getting 5-8. The big cluster of land on the left side of the map means that whoever starts in Reef 4 is going to win every game.

I think the only thing to rectify this is (other than completely remaking the map) changing the number of neutrals. On luggers with 10 armies no one even bothers going for them. They are just treated as "impassible obstacles" and everyone just goes around them because it is not worth it to take them when you could take 2-3 islands for the same amount of armies. Some land only had like 3 neutrals on them and gave the same, or better, bonus! Each land (since they are all bonuses) should have at least 10 armies as well, if not more (maybe 20-25 armies on the land that have "national treasures" AND "fresh water" as those are the most sought after territories). Or you might consider having some land that doesn't have bonuses (aka, take some bonuses off the big island cluster near Reef 4) to balance it better.


ZeekLTK, thanks for your comments; however since you've only played 49 games in toto on this site, and one of these happens to be this T of G map, and you've had some good wins on all those maps, come back and provide feedback when you've played a few more games on this map at other settings and indeed every map on this site and then tell me if it's still unbalanced.
There has been a lot of input from people getting this to its now current stage, so i find your comments somewhat unbeleiveable and more atuned someone who might just lose a game.
Unfortunately i can not cater simply to your needs alone. :)
There are a lot of other people out there who think this map is now better balanced than when it went into play.

militant wrote:Cairns, I tink the map is smashing, really enjoy playing on it. Thanks for taking the time to make it :D

Thanks militant. :)
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Re: Treasures of Galápagos [Quenched]

Postby HardAttack on Sat Oct 18, 2008 10:11 pm

this map is a best of among some others...the artwork is reflected perfectly...great job is done, ty a lot for such a beautiful nice work...played a few times on the map, gained my favor so soon and recorded this map to be in my favoırites among those 8 or 10 more others...
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Treasures of Galapagos adjustment

Postby cairnswk on Thu Dec 18, 2008 3:05 pm

Treasures of Galapagos

I recently played about a dozen games on this map after getting over the initial mess that was created with the adjustments.

What i found was that the luggers weren't used in any of the games that i played in.
The 10 neutrals on them was too high for anyone to conquer and everyone simply conquered across the map.

These were supposed to be an integral part of the gameplay and act like airports that could attack each other, especially for the larger games. I understand there is going to be no happy medium in some of these games to cater for every player combination, but i now feel that the 10 neutrals is way too high, and i would like open discussion on how others feel about this.

My recommendation would be to drop them back to 6 neutrals so they can still be used.

What do others feel?
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Re: Treasures of Galapagos adjustment

Postby Natewolfman on Thu Dec 18, 2008 3:20 pm

I agree completely, since the change i never have seen a need to use the luggers, and before i used them every time
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Re: Treasures of Galapagos adjustment

Postby LB Ninja on Thu Dec 18, 2008 4:00 pm

right now i think this is my favorite map to play.. i play on it a lot.. and personally i like the lugers how they are.. i like that the person has to go across the map to find someone.. the games will be too short and easy if we reduce any of the numbers on it.. so personally i think they should stay at ten or be less of a bonus
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Re: Treasures of Galapagos adjustment

Postby Qwert on Sun Dec 21, 2008 5:21 pm

These need to present in Galapagos topic right?
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Re: Treasures of Galapagos adjustment

Postby neanderpaul14 on Sun Dec 21, 2008 6:29 pm

I completely agree I've played a number of games on this map and have never tried for the luggers due to the 10 armies present on each
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Medals: 65
Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (3) Quadruples Achievement (4) Terminator Achievement (3)
Assassin Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (3) Freestyle Achievement (2) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (4)
Trench Warfare Achievement (1) Speed Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (2) Cross-Map Achievement (3)
Beta Map Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (4) Tournament Achievement (7) General Achievement (1) Clan Achievement (13)

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