The Citadel [Quenched]

[TaCktiX]

Basic information was there, just a couple incorrect bonuses. It's buried underneath all the version additions. In fact, I'll stick it at the top immediately after I post this.

[greenoaks]

- i don't understand the building names. now i realise they are probably the real names but LeTellier Hall conveys nothing to me. neither does Mark Clark Hall, Thompson Hall, Grimsley Hall, ROTC, Capers Hall, Byrd Hall, Ducket Hall & Bond Hall. what are the purposes of those buildings ? keeping those names is sure to impress those who have attended that academy while leaving the rest of us in the dark.

Each one is named after someone who has contributed a lot to the school, whether by being a president (Grimsley), a well-respected teacher (LeTellier), or a great donor (Daniel). Now in order, Mark Clark Hall is the "student life" building (as close as a military college gets to one), Thompson the Math building, Grimsley the Electrical Engineering and Physics building, ROTC really is where all the ROTC classes are taught on campus (The Citadel offers all 4 branches), Capers Hall houses nearly all Liberal Arts degrees on campus (Modern Languages, Political Science, Criminal Justice, aforementioned English, Psychology, etc.), Byrd Hall is Chemistry, Duckett hall is Biology, and Bond Hall is the administration building. Now that I've explicated all of that, see any similarities to a thing called CCU? Keeping the building names may mean that a non-attendee wouldn't be able to tell what building houses what at first, but if I change to generics, that line of difference I'm trying to cultivate between my map and CCU will get much thinner. Also if I change the names, I've lost the character that comprises the map. If I'm going to model a real-life campus, it's better to name it after its real-life things instead of generic phrases that have no theme to them at all than College.

- what is Disrepair & Papa about as their names don't seem to flow like the other battalions ?

Disrepair is an injoke. That battalion has been condemned for a few years now, and a lot of it is in horrible shape, so much so that the administration is sinking $2 million into renovating it. The bizarre border is another nod to that. I'd like to leave a few easter eggs for my friends to find, and there's nothing better to name it as there are no other companies in that battalion. Papa is another company, see the military phonetic alphabet to confirm that. Battery itself is a shortening of Palmetto Battery, our company that handles all ceremonial artillery fire.

i had a feeling the building names would be something like that. i guess that's why i initially liked the concept but have cooled to it now. i feel let down because you say it is a military college but only half the buildings have some military aspect to them and very few have a college aspect to them. your mixing of the names exacerbates that feeling.

for instance you have a hall for the school of english and one for business (college feel there) but then there is Ducket Hall where i learn about what, duckets ???.

at various times you have received posts suggesting you not make this map geographically accurate but engage in some artistic license to improve gameplay. i feel the naming of the buildings is a similar issue. strict adherence to the names attendees call the buildings robs the rest of us of the feel that this is a campus and not just a collection of buildings with no identifiable purpose.

and don't be afraid of CCU comparisons with your better graphics and game mechanics.

[TaCktiX]

and don't be afraid of CCU comparisons with your better graphics and game mechanics.

I am worried about CCU comparisons. The first few pages of this topic were spammed with comparisons to it. And if I were to simplify the map down to what you're suggesting, I'll end up with frighteningly similar names, like "Biology", "Chemistry", "Physics", and "Mathematics". Ring a bell? Yep, CCU names for the same dang thing. And if I were to go generic with what I can, you'd end up with weirdo amalgamations like "Student Life" being right next to "Summerall Chapel." Named buildings interspersed with generic buildings would jar me far harder than not knowing wtf each building had in it.

[CatfishJohnson]

The Unique real names are what sets it apart in one way, why do u have a problem its just a place, like i mean, the provinces of canada, or china dont mean anything to me, that doenst mean it does to others

[laci_mae]

for instance you have a hall for the school of english and one for business (college feel there) but then there is Ducket Hall where i learn about what, duckets ???

I also am not familiar with the names of the buildings at the Citadel, so I'm only addressing a small part of your naming concerns. Frequently, university buildings are built without a donor or honoree having been named. Once some money, I mean a worthy individual, comes along the school will have a big naming ceremony. This is likely the case for the buildings above. The School of English will be called just that until, say, Mark Twain's offspring drop some jack to have it named after him. To me, keeping with the official names of the academic buildings is the right way to go. I believe the nicknames come in for the food, sleep, and play related facilities. Just give us a little more detail on why you chose the nicknames for some and official names for others.

****
To address a separate issue: You could move the title and parade deck territory down so that the title would be the focal point of the map. Possibly not down to the middle, but just enough to free up some room to run the sidewalks into the parade deck.

Best,
LMR

[TaCktiX]

I also am not familiar with the names of the buildings at the Citadel, so I'm only addressing a small part of your naming concerns. Frequently, university buildings are built without a donor or honoree having been named. Once some money, I mean a worthy individual, comes along the school will have a big naming ceremony. This is likely the case for the buildings above. The School of English will be called just that until, say, Mark Twain's offspring drop some jack to have it named after him. To me, keeping with the official names of the academic buildings is the right way to go. I believe the nicknames come in for the food, sleep, and play related facilities. Just give us a little more detail on why you chose the nicknames for some and official names for others.

I know this sounds crazy, but virtually every building on campus was named AS it was built. For instance, Capers Hall is named in honor of the Capers brothers, one a Civil War soldier, the other a president of the college proper. Thing was, the building was built in 1953 and the Capers brothers lived in the mid-1800's. Another example is Grimsley Hall: built in 1991, named in honor of president Major General Grimsley, president from 1980-1989. Even the major donor buildings like Daniel Library were built in 1960 and named in honor of two graduates: one of the class of 1918, the other of the class of 1929.

As for the School of English and such, that is when I split a building into several territories to make gameplay better. The School of English is in that section of Capers Hall, but it's still Capers Hall. The School of Business and the President are firmly part of Bond Hall. The Museum is an annex of Daniel Library. Names are still related to what's there, it's just not the official building name in some cases.

To address a separate issue: You could move the title and parade deck territory down so that the title would be the focal point of the map. Possibly not down to the middle, but just enough to free up some room to run the sidewalks into the parade deck.

I'll do that, thanks.

[laci_mae]

I was curious how military school buildings were named. I figured, for the most part, they weren't as donor dependent as public universities. I'm fine with how things are named. I just thought I had a different perspective on why some things develop nicknames and others don't. Fact is, I'm not familiar with the names or relational proximities of the territories in most of the maps. It's not hard to get the hang of after a solid game or two.

Example: I've only played the China map once. It has Shanxi and Shaanxi as bordering territories. I did not realize this and deployed on the wrong one. It hurt me for that turn, but I ended up winning the game.
Moral of the story: You live and learn. Use the names by which the areas or buildings are called by people familiar with the Citadel. Everyone will learn their locations quickly enough. Any players who are familiar with the geographical areas within China would never dream of making the mistake that I did.

Best,
Laci

[CatfishJohnson]

lol i did basically the same thing laci lol

[gimil]

good luck!

[bryguy]

congratz on the main foundry!

yes first to say it

next stop, Final Forge, then Quench, then.... THE WORLD!!!!

[TaCktiX]

Well, now that this is in Foundry we'll see if it lives a week before being trampled out of existence. I'll release a bit update Version 9 to address the bonus and crosswalk issues today, hopefully that'll stimulate some discussion.

[bryguy]

Well, now that this is in Foundry we'll see if it lives a week before being trampled out of existence. I'll release a bit update Version 9 to address the bonus and crosswalk issues today, hopefully that'll stimulate some discussion.

well EB is/was still alive after a week, but i better hurry up and get an update before it gets trampled....

[TaCktiX]

Version 9

Updates:
- Moved the map title and Parade Deck more toward the center of the Parade Deck
- Revamped sidewalk routes so they looked more realistic and less retarded, particularly slanted ones
- Fixed the Bonus box to be readable, like the rest of the map
- Moved Quad B's army placement, for future 888 checks.

[oaktown]

Hey TicTac, err, taCktix. Welcome to the Main.

My first impression is that the whole thing looks a bit flat graphically. I'm not suggesting you get all 3-D on us, but since you have opted for some 3-D effects (building shadows, a sloped roof or two) you have to be consistent with the look - and very careful with it. For instance, the roof lighting is different on the two roofs that are sloped, and there's no sense of a vanishing point. If you're going to try to make it look three dimensional, you've got a big job ahead of you that I know would kick my ass!

The Tower is going to be especially troublesome. Right now it looks like a horizontal projection into the quad, as if it is a territory bordering the parade deck. i suspect that's not what you are after.

Quick question: where Echo and Hotel border Mike and Kilo, I assume all four territories can attack each other, yes? if so I think it wouldn't hurt to make that walkway a bit bigger to emphasize the fact that the walkway hits both rooms on each side.

there may need to be a note in the legend giving a general explanation of the outdoor attack routes, but let's see where you take it first.

A general issue I have with the borders between territories is that the lines that represent attackable borders are thicker than the other lines around the building. it makes the border look unpassable. For instance, I know that Golf can attack Quad A, and Quad A can attack band, but can Band attack Golf? And if not, how does anybody ever attack President?

[TaCktiX]

Hey TicTac, err, taCktix. Welcome to the Main.

My first impression is that the whole thing looks a bit flat graphically. I'm not suggesting you get all 3-D on us, but since you have opted for some 3-D effects (building shadows, a sloped roof or two) you have to be consistent with the look - and very careful with it. For instance, the roof lighting is different on the two roofs that are sloped, and there's no sense of a vanishing point. If you're going to try to make it look three dimensional, you've got a big job ahead of you that I know would kick my ass!

The assumed shadow is from a sun shining approximately from the top right of the map, just uniformly in proportion to height of building (most buildings on campus are 3 or 4 stories tall, all the ones on the map aside from The Trailers are at least that height). For the majority of the map I assumed pure left-facing shadow, and now that the Quads are gone, the top-facing shadow has been eliminated. So amend that to a sun shining uniformly from the right. Any suggestions from there?

The Tower is going to be especially troublesome. Right now it looks like a horizontal projection into the quad, as if it is a territory bordering the parade deck. i suspect that's not what you are after.

It is adjacent to the parade deck. I meant to add a shadow to it (left-facing as well) this past version, but it slipped my mind. It extends out of 2nd onto the Deck to show that relationship, and since you uninformed (akin to a first-time player of the map) assumed that that was the relationship, life is good. If it WASN'T a border, 2nd would be very imbalanced compared to the other battalions, which have hefty defense to hold individually (4 territories of 5, except on Support which is 3 of 4).

Quick question: where Echo and Hotel border Mike and Kilo, I assume all four territories can attack each other, yes? if so I think it wouldn't hurt to make that walkway a bit bigger to emphasize the fact that the walkway hits both rooms on each side.

Yup, crazy interconnections. I'll make it bigger.

A general issue I have with the borders between territories is that the lines that represent attackable borders are thicker than the other lines around the building. it makes the border look unpassable. For instance, I know that Golf can attack Quad A, and Quad A can attack band, but can Band attack Golf? And if not, how does anybody ever attack President?

I can trim those up. When I was first drafting Version 8 I was going from not having enough space to show in-building borders to having gobs of it. I got a little paranoid about people being able to tell the difference.

Thanks for the input on this, Oaktown.