[Official] Classic TOUCH-UP [Quenched]

[firth4eva]

And for god's sake the map is "Classic" not "Classic!". It justs looks retarded.

[jiminski]

how about we revert back to the original map but add a user script option for the visually impaired to make the continents white or 1 neutral colour? (more similar to the AOM and Middle East)

[kha1i1]

ok, my vote is to simply REMOVE the white dots and replace them with either circles around the armies (like middle earth) or none at all. the new australia color is ok, albeit a little orange, but definitely doable. i think (imo and from reading the complaints) that the dots seem to be the biggest problem.

[Freetymes]

I am still not sure if this is a place to say something that will not get lost in all of the hate and anger posts (some mine) about the change to the classic map, but here goes.

Please consider that very few of the members of this site come to the forums and even fewer venture into cartography. Consider if you will how hard life in this area would be if everybody felt the need to check in every day and give you their opinion on your work? So be careful what you ask for. I have no idea if there has been a cry for change or not. What I am sure of is that you and your work would have been better served by opening up a dialog about this change to the general population prior to installing it. Few people like change of any kind, good or bad. No one likes it thrust upon them unaware of its coming. Even worse is changing the original and seemingly most liked and played map. I think, as I said, you have done yourself and your community a disservice and for my part I feel you have ruined what has been my favorite map.

Please, please change it back or at the very least allow it to be toggled back to the original version. I and others have compared what you have done to the change Coke made once upon a time... Both changes show failures, of those in power to make these changes, to understand that good or perceived bad you do not change the original.

Thank you for your time and consideration.

[Ditocoaf]

I think I've figured it out! We say, "how could you have done this without consulting the larger community?" They say, "you could have commented at any time, it was here." We say, "Nobody looks in here! We thought this forum was just for new maps! If we had known there were plans for a change to the Classic, we would have come!" They say, "well, you should have come in here."

The answer: the mapmaking community feels neglected and ignored as the larger part of the community refrains from visiting the foundry and reading the threads. Like an ignored child, they decide to lash out, do something that will cause us to sit up and take notice! [i]That'll[/i] teach the community to not visit the foundry! If we don't like what they're doing, then we should be here all the time, scanning each of the threads. Finally, the mapmaking sub-community will have the attention they crave!

Seriously. It wouldn't have hurt to post a thread somewhere where people [i]look[/i], to let people know about this. Don't just say, "you could have commented," because they didn't [i]know[/i] this was going on. You can have a secret meeting without a locked door, when there's nobody going in the room anyway.

[wicked]

I think we have enough "what went wrong" posts, as they're all starting to say the same things. How about, "how can we fix it" for everyone posts?

[yeti_c]

[quote="Ditocoaf"]I think I've figured it out! We say, "how could you have done this without consulting the larger community?" They say, "you could have commented at any time, it was here." We say, "Nobody looks in here! We thought this forum was just for new maps! If we had known there were plans for a change to the Classic, we would have come!" They say, "well, you should have come in here."

The answer: the mapmaking community feels neglected and ignored as the larger part of the community refrains from visiting the foundry and reading the threads. Like an ignored child, they decide to lash out, do something that will cause us to sit up and take notice! [i]That'll[/i] teach the community to not visit the foundry! If we don't like what they're doing, then we should be here all the time, scanning each of the threads. Finally, the mapmaking sub-community will have the attention they crave!

Seriously. It wouldn't have hurt to post a thread somewhere where people [i]look[/i], to let people know about this. Don't just say, "you could have commented," because they didn't [i]know[/i] this was going on. You can have a secret meeting without a locked door, when there's nobody going in the room anyway.[/quote]

Just to reiterate - there was an announcement in the General Discussion sometime ago...

C.

[jiminski]

[quote="jiminski"]how about we revert back to the original map but add a user script option for the visually impaired to make the continents white or 1 neutral colour? (more similar to the AOM and Middle East)[/quote]

(before we talk about if it is desirable...)
is that possible Yeti?

[yeti_c]

[quote="jiminski"][quote="jiminski"]how about we revert back to the original map but add a user script option for the visually impaired to make the continents white or 1 neutral colour? (more similar to the AOM and Middle East)[/quote]

(before we talk about if it is desirable...)
is that possible Yeti?[/quote]

A userscript to show a different image?

No not really possible as the army counts have moved - and thus wouldn't be centralised.

If the *new* image is modified to have different versions and these are uploaded on the site somewhere - then it could be done... But at the moment no.

For Lack to add an option to allow more than 1 image is again a lot of work to do for him - especially when there's more cooler stuff going forward (not backward) that I'm sure he would like to do.

C.

[wicked]

For Lack to add an option to allow more than 1 image is again a lot of work to do for him - especially when there's more cooler stuff going forward (not backward) that I'm sure he would like to do.

C.

How is it more work for him? It's just like adding a new map, which happens all the time.

[yeti_c]

[quote="wicked"][quote="yeti_c"]For Lack to add an option to allow more than 1 image is again a lot of work to do for him - especially when there's more cooler stuff going forward (not backward) that I'm sure he would like to do.

C.[/quote]

How is it more work for him? It's just like adding a new map, which happens all the time.[/quote]

Well - I suppose that is 1 option...

But I thought that an option to have either the old or new classic shown in the same game was what people wanted?

Which would mean recoding the game pages etc to add new links etc - and to ensure the correct XML is read (as that has changed too AFAIK)

C.

[poo-maker]

Why does there only have to be one classic? I am sure that with this new version and the old classic version, 99% if not all the members at conquerclub are happy. There are so many crap maps cluttering up the start a game page nowadays that what harm would another one do? Personally, I found nothing wrong with the last map. In fact, i thought it was perfect. How did it even get to this point where the best and most popular map at cc was changed without the knowledge of most of the community? It really pisses me off to think about those people who didn't like the old classic, and managed to change it into something that they liked.... meanwhile, those people who loved the old map now have to "campaign" to get the classic version back.

[jiminski]

[quote="wicked"][quote="yeti_c"]For Lack to add an option to allow more than 1 image is again a lot of work to do for him - especially when there's more cooler stuff going forward (not backward) that I'm sure he would like to do.

C.[/quote]

How is it more work for him? It's just like adding a new map, which happens all the time.[/quote]

Also i would say that this is THE most important map!
just as a rule of thumb if you look at the waiting for players games in Game finder there are 32 pages. 10 of these are Classic. nearly a third of awaiting games are Classic!

So i understand from a map makers perspective that moving forward is the key... but you guys care most about making maps.

We have to consider:
1. the map makers feelings
2. the time taken to fix this taking time from newer projects
3. the Majority of Users
4. the visually impaired who the changes were made for

Analysis:
1. he is not even a member so it is irrelevant
2. this mainly effects our very important but tiny minority of Cartographers
3. what appears to be the majority of users dislike all of the changes to the map and want the old one back (we should perhaps check this with a mail-out poll to all members to accommodate those who do not visit the forums)
4. The visually impaired do not seem to have been aided by the changes either.

therefore for me, if we could have an option to change from the 'Original' classic Map to a 'Bleached' version with the same plotting for armies for the Visually impaired, the highest utility will be achieved.

[Ruben Cassar]

[quote="wicked"]I think we have enough "what went wrong" posts, as they're all starting to say the same things. How about, "how can we fix it" for everyone posts?[/quote]

Fixes?

1. Poll on My Games page which states whether you want to revert to the old Classic or not. Somewhere where people too lazy (or not interested) to get in the foundry can see it and vote for it. This is probably the most democratic solution but I doubt this will even be taken into consideration.

2. Make an option to select old Classic or new Classic in the Start A Game screen. This treats Classic! as an entirely new map...although it doesn't make sense to me.

3. Put old Classic on while new Classic's colour scheme is fixed to satisfy the majority.

However, my personal opinion is that this is not the usual map where people either hate it and don't play it or love it and play it. This is Classic...the essence of CC. I believe the Classic map should be kept as it was and therefore we should revert to the original. It is too important for CC.

[poo-maker]

Btw... if lack only wants 1 classic map at cc. Then the following things should be changed/fixed about the new one.

- White army circles
- The army circles look out of place, i know this has been done to allow for the names to read more easily but for me, it is much worse than having partially blocked names.
- The map looks greyer for some reason.... maybe its just the white dots but it looks like the map is costantly set to 90% opacity.

[kjtocool]

Yeti,

We don't really care how it happens, we just want those silly white dots gone! They clutter the map, make it impossible to scan quickly, ruin the 'feel' of the map, give people headaches, and actually manage to make the map harder to read!

What's worse, they are totally static. Try imagining it for someone who's colorblind. Turning on the color codes leaves half the data in the silly circles and half of it outside the circles, it looks ridiculous, makes it so hard to read, and is just generally awful. CC can say that people never gave input all they like, but the last time they tried to add these circles the same thing happened, and they removed them.

Do you really think changing the opacity from 100% to 60% or 55% was going to end the fuss?

So to fix the situation we would be happy with any of the following:

1) Totally revert to the old classic map.
2) Make this new map an additional map option, and switch all old classic games back to the old map, thus letting people choose.
3) Keep the new map, but get rid of the circles from it.

We don't care what happens, just get rid of the circles.

[jiminski]

I actually do care .. i do not like the colour scheme either .. the gestalt feel of the changed map is shocking! it makes me wonder if Lack is mates with Stevie Wonder.

[keiths31]

This is a classic example of what happens when people don't check out all the forums. This map had been in the foundry for quite a while with many positive reviews. Now that it has been changed there is a mass cry out about it. If people had looked in the Foundry months ago they would have been aware of what was going on.

I say leave the new version.

[kjtocool]

You can't be serious?

Is it written in stone somewhere that we as members be forced to participate in all aspects of the site? Welcome to thinking at a 6th grade level, let me know how it works out for you in life.

[Kemmler]

[quote="keiths31"]This is a classic example of what happens when people don't check out all the forums. This map had been in the foundry for quite a while with many positive reviews. Now that it has been changed there is a mass cry out about it. If people had looked in the Foundry months ago they would have been aware of what was going on.

I say leave the new version.[/quote]

That's because now it's changed we really care.

It's ruining the gameplay.

[Dancing Mustard]

[quote="Dancing Mustard"]Forgive me for making light of the situation, but isn't this a bit of a storm in a teacup? Surely it's a fairly simple job to satisfy both camps without having to go to too much effort?

[b]Isn't there some way that the powers-that-be could be persuaded to either:[/b]
1. Host two versions of Classic, one that is, well... 'Classic'; and another that is shiny and new and looks as pretty as our photoshop fetishists can make it? Sure, it'd create two 'streams' of classic games as things stand, but surely the CC Software could gain an option that would allow you to search for 'old Classic', 'new Classic', and 'all Classic' games available (depending on how picky you were feeling).

2. Alternatively, and a bit more radically, isn't there some way that an option could be added to classic games to [b]allow users to toggle to their prefered settings[/b]? That way you could start a 'Classic' game, and immediately flick to whichever graphical setting you found least offensive. We can flick between big and small maps, so surely it must be possible to let 'Classic' players flick between ugly and pretty maps? After all, this is just an aesthetic change, so there's no gameplay-compatibility problems with letting each player choose their own 'Classic Skin', right?

I know that both options would create work for some of the higher-ups around here, but if this is going to be such a sensitive topic, then perhaps a little bit of hard work is in order to reach a sensible conclusion.

Anyway, that's my two pence; perhaps I've missed something vital that's been changed here, or perhaps I'm dreaming beyond the capabilities of the CC Software... but surely this can all be worked out fairly easily and without too much mudslinging?[/quote]
Did I ever get a sensible response to this, or did it get lost in this morning's bout of mudslinging?

[jiminski]

[quote="keiths31"]This is a classic example of what happens when people don't check out all the forums. This map had been in the foundry for quite a while with many positive reviews. Now that it has been changed there is a mass cry out about it. If people had looked in the Foundry months ago they would have been aware of what was going on.

I say leave the new version.[/quote]


you are not helping

[Qwert]

quote This is a classic example of what happens when people don't check out all the forums. This map had been in the foundry for quite a while with many positive reviews. Now that it has been changed there is a mass cry out about it. If people had looked in the Foundry months ago they would have been aware of what was going on.
I say leave the new version.quote

I dont understand,why people now dont like with new Classic map. Rewamp of these map whas Anounce in General Discusion,and after that Rewamp is start. If you realy care,what thing will change in old version,you will go to see,but insted these,you dont go,and now you protest,and you have same right like all Map MAkers to participiate in Classic Rewamp,but you not take these rights.

[Ruben Cassar]

[quote="qwert"]quote This is a classic example of what happens when people don't check out all the forums. This map had been in the foundry for quite a while with many positive reviews. Now that it has been changed there is a mass cry out about it. If people had looked in the Foundry months ago they would have been aware of what was going on.
I say leave the new version.quote

I dont understand,why people now dont like with new Classic map. Rewamp of these map whas Anounce in General Discusion,and after that Rewamp is start. If you realy care,what thing will change in old version,you will go to see,but insted these,you dont go,and now you protest,and you have same right like all Map MAkers to participiate in Classic Rewamp,but you not take these rights.[/quote]

This is the kind of mentality that will get us nowhere. I feel like I am back in primary school. As already iterated many times in the various threads only a small portion of the people playing CC visit the foundry. Granted it does not help the map making process but the people who play the maps have the final say and they do not like the new Classic. What the heck there are people who pay to play this game and they want to play the old Classic. These people cannot be ignored.

Come on Qwert don't you see that there is something wrong with this revamp? Or else why would hundreds of people who usually don't give a damn about map making start posting complains? We cannot continue pressing on with the ready made phrase "they should have checked the foundry while the map was being revamped so their opinion does not count".

And please stop making this an issue of map makers vs gamers because it's not...

[wicked]

I dont understand,why people now dont like with new Classic map.

This is what we're now trying to ascertain qwert. Let's keep the convo moving forward about where to go from here, instead of backward.

Is it JUST the issue with the bright white circles that is the main complaint here? The other changes are ok? Meaning the new orange Aussie and name placement changes and such?

(and why do quotes work for me but not anyone else? odd)