[Official] Classic TOUCH-UP [Quenched]

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Re: [Official] Classic TOUCH-UP [Quenched]

Postby RjBeals on Wed Apr 09, 2008 8:08 pm

Kaplowitz wrote:
Begin scene:
The mapmaking community feels neglected and ignored as the larger part of the community refrains from visiting the foundry and reading the threads. Like an ignored child, they decide to lash out, do something that will cause us to sit up and take notice! That'll teach the community to not visit the foundry! If we don't like what they're doing, then we should be here all the time, scanning each of the threads. Finally, the mapmaking sub-community will have the attention they crave!

thats ridiculous! There is no attention crave. It was obviously announced that the map was being adjusted. If you wanted to come in and help out, then fine. The Map Foundry HONESTLY believes that this map is good, we dont care if you are "neglecting" us.

Believe me, we are not craving attention. I personally think there's too much attention here in the first place. There's been lots of discussion before about updating the classic map - it's just now that it finally happened. And the thread has been active for months now. But in all honesty, I really don't care for the white army circles either.

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Re: [Official] Classic TOUCH-UP [Quenched]

Postby jiminski on Wed Apr 09, 2008 8:39 pm

Instead of the white Dishes Is it not possible to reverse the troop numbers out of the background?

I guess that would be a little complex but surely it is possible to have 2 sets of text running concurrently, one behind the other .. i.e A white number Font (slightly enlarged by half a point or something) running behind all other colours army numbers.
this would help the visually impaired without impairing the the feel of the map. (Europe is very unsatisfactory to me in the changed map.. you can not see half of it as it is an indeterminate blob.. the Islands are entirely obscured!)

I guess really the numbers could just have a white highlight around their black border.... not possible?
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Re: [Official] Classic TOUCH-UP [Quenched]

Postby reminisco on Wed Apr 09, 2008 10:01 pm

i think the classic map looks like a copyrighted product belonging to Hasbro being used for profit without permission.
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Re: [Official] Classic TOUCH-UP [Quenched]

Postby T7 on Wed Apr 09, 2008 10:10 pm

The white dots are obviously a problem. Why can they just not be replaced by the original grey dots? They were subtle and great. The white dots are distracting and anything but subtle.

The 'fluro' key at the bottom left is no good either. They don't need to be colour matched (and to be trying to get so much attention) - if people don't know where South America is or Europe is, they're probably not smart enough to turn on the computer to get to the site in the first place.

We're not talking about abstract locations like the "Space" map, we're talking about the countries in the world we live in. All this stuff exists in reality, we've seen it before - we get the idea, we're not idiots so don't highlight basic things and treat us like we are.
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Re: [Official] Classic TOUCH-UP [Quenched]

Postby Robinette on Wed Apr 09, 2008 11:00 pm

Pedronicus wrote:I gave up looking in the map foundry a long time ago. I kept asking for people to stop making maps. All I wanted was a total overhaul of the classic map, with America to be more yellowy, and the map to stop looking like a pixelated nighmare.

I wanted a beautifully drawn map with the exact same layout. It's the most played map - so it should be the most polished map available.

An Italian restaurant with a piss poor Tomato Sauce, isn't going to be a success. The classic map is this sites 'Tomato Sauce'

Make it beautiful or don't bother changing a thing and keep it as an unchanged classic design, that will gain love over 10 ten years life, looking even more old fashioned with each year & gaining appreciation for the fact that it never changed from day one.


=D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D>
My sentiments exactly!!!!
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Re: [Official] Classic TOUCH-UP [Quenched]

Postby MajorRT on Wed Apr 09, 2008 11:16 pm

Just finished a game on the new "classic!" ; now I got a headache...going to bed ; maybe when I wake up the glitzy new map will be gone , like a bad dream.... or a least those nasty white circles that leave imprints on your retinas....
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Re: [Official] Classic TOUCH-UP [Quenched]

Postby joeuhc on Thu Apr 10, 2008 12:22 am

I hate to admit this because when I first saw the new map I hated it with an intense passion which caused me to actually make my first post to the forum but I think I am used to the new map already. The first few times I saw the map I had trouble differentiating between the colors. Now I don't think about it.

The thing I am worried about is that I noticed players are missing more turns. This could be a coincidence or maybe people are leaving games in frustration or protest over the new map.

Put me down for not caring either way (I was perfectly happy with the old map) but I do encourage others to give the new map a try.
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Re: [Official] Classic TOUCH-UP [Quenched]

Postby MajorRT on Thu Apr 10, 2008 12:34 am

Tried to sleep, but couldn't because of retinal burning, but thought of constructive criticism and suggestions:
First need to poll a significant and respective number of the 21,000+ members....not just 2% like in the poll earlier last month.
Do this on my games page until at least 10-20% of members are polled or whatever a statistician member decides that a significant number has voted (so a P value of .96 is achieved). Ask 2 questions:
First, what map should be used for classic games? The old classic?new classic?Both?Or a future revision of new and old?
Second, if a future revision is chosen, what should be used in the meantime,old or new or both?
This is the fairest way, if you want a democratic club. Of course , Lack and the (hard working and under-appreciated) cartographers should have more a say.
I strongly advise to do the poll ASAP. thanks, MRT
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Re: [Official] Classic TOUCH-UP [Quenched]

Postby T7 on Thu Apr 10, 2008 12:43 am

I agree - and the poll should be somewhere obvious and in front of the general CC user.

Many many many people do not visit the foundry, and I even had to look twice to realise this thread was on another branch.

General referendum please, lots of paying members to listen to.
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Re: [Official] Classic TOUCH-UP [Quenched]

Postby Ruben Cassar on Thu Apr 10, 2008 4:00 am

Ruben Cassar wrote:
wicked wrote:I think we have enough "what went wrong" posts, as they're all starting to say the same things. How about, "how can we fix it" for everyone posts?


Fixes?

1. Poll on My Games page which states whether you want to revert to the old Classic or not. Somewhere where people too lazy (or not interested) to get in the foundry can see it and vote for it. This is probably the most democratic solution but I doubt this will even be taken into consideration.

2. Make an option to select old Classic or new Classic in the Start A Game screen. This treats Classic! as an entirely new map...although it doesn't make sense to me.

3. Put old Classic on while new Classic's colour scheme is fixed to satisfy the majority.

However, my personal opinion is that this is not the usual map where people either hate it and don't play it or love it and play it. This is Classic...the essence of CC. I believe the Classic map should be kept as it was and therefore we should revert to the original. It is too important for CC.


Posting again an earlier post which as I expected was completely ignored...
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Re: [Official] Classic TOUCH-UP [Quenched]

Postby yeti_c on Thu Apr 10, 2008 4:22 am

Ruben Cassar wrote:Posting again an earlier post which as I expected was completely ignored...


Plenty of posts are getting ignored around here - primarily any where someone said that they like the new map?!

C.
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Re: [Official] Classic TOUCH-UP [Quenched]

Postby yeti_c on Thu Apr 10, 2008 4:27 am

Anyways...

So I decided to try something... I've changed the army circles on each continent in several ways...

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Which army circles do people prefer?

C.

PS - no I'm not the best GFX artist so don't pick holes in the accuracy.
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Re: [Official] Classic TOUCH-UP [Quenched]

Postby wicked on Thu Apr 10, 2008 4:33 am

yeti_c wrote:Which army circles do people prefer?



THIS ONE:

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Re: [Official] Classic TOUCH-UP [Quenched]

Postby yeti_c on Thu Apr 10, 2008 4:35 am

wicked wrote:
yeti_c wrote:Which army circles do people prefer?



THIS ONE:

Image


Not helping.

C.
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Re: [Official] Classic TOUCH-UP [Quenched]

Postby wicked on Thu Apr 10, 2008 4:39 am

Actually I am. The black ones you did were too dark. What I prefer is what I posted. What I'd settle for is something close to that. "Do nothing" should always be an alternative.
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Re: [Official] Classic TOUCH-UP [Quenched]

Postby Ruben Cassar on Thu Apr 10, 2008 4:44 am

yeti_c wrote:
Ruben Cassar wrote:Posting again an earlier post which as I expected was completely ignored...


Plenty of posts are getting ignored around here - primarily any where someone said that they like the new map?!

C.


I don't think those are being ignored. They just said they liked the new map and that's all.

No need to give a reply to that kind of post.
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Re: [Official] Classic TOUCH-UP [Quenched]

Postby yeti_c on Thu Apr 10, 2008 4:48 am

wicked wrote:Actually I am. The black ones you did were too dark. What I prefer is what I posted. What I'd settle for is something close to that. "Do nothing" should always be an alternative.


Well saying that would've been better than being an arse about it.

C.
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Re: [Official] Classic TOUCH-UP [Quenched]

Postby firstholliday on Thu Apr 10, 2008 4:49 am

wicked for president!!!
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Re: [Official] Classic TOUCH-UP [Quenched]

Postby Qwert on Thu Apr 10, 2008 4:51 am

ruben cassar
Come on Qwert don't you see that there is something wrong with this revamp? Or else why would hundreds of people who usually don't give a damn about map making start posting complains? We cannot continue pressing on with the ready made phrase "they should have checked the foundry while the map was being revamped so their opinion does not count".


And please stop making this an issue of map makers vs gamers because it's not...



Ok,i have idea,that Rewamp of these map,be moved to General Discusion,and be stickied,and in that way we will solve first main problem-participiation of people.I belive that these will be best first step to solve problems. ;)
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Re: [Official] Classic TOUCH-UP [Quenched]

Postby Ruben Cassar on Thu Apr 10, 2008 4:55 am

This is the real democratic solution:

Poll on My Games page which states whether you want to revert to the old Classic or not.

The real reason why this is not being considered is because the majority would vote against the new map and the old one would be reinstated.

I just cannot understand why the will of the majority is being ignored and why it all had to boil down to this. The changes were unpopular, one cannot ignore that.
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Re: [Official] Classic TOUCH-UP [Quenched]

Postby wicked on Thu Apr 10, 2008 4:56 am

yeti_c wrote:
wicked wrote:Actually I am. The black ones you did were too dark. What I prefer is what I posted. What I'd settle for is something close to that. "Do nothing" should always be an alternative.


Well saying that would've been better than being an arse about it.

C.


Don't be so touchy. ;-) I was putting the pic up for comparison purposes.
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Re: [Official] Classic TOUCH-UP [Quenched]

Postby wicked on Thu Apr 10, 2008 4:58 am

Ruben Cassar wrote:I just cannot understand why the will of the majority is being ignored and why it all had to boil down to this. The changes were unpopular, one cannot ignore that.


Oh you're far from being ignored. Hasn't everything we've said been a testament to that? There's a lot going on behind the scenes, and I suspect we may hear something (at least an update) tomorrow (or later today depending on your time zone).
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Re: [Official] Classic TOUCH-UP [Quenched]

Postby yeti_c on Thu Apr 10, 2008 5:02 am

wicked wrote:
yeti_c wrote:
wicked wrote:Actually I am. The black ones you did were too dark. What I prefer is what I posted. What I'd settle for is something close to that. "Do nothing" should always be an alternative.


Well saying that would've been better than being an arse about it.

C.


Don't be so touchy. ;-) I was putting the pic up for comparison purposes.


Anyway...

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I tweaked the ones in North America... that better?

C.
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Re: [Official] Classic TOUCH-UP [Quenched]

Postby T7 on Thu Apr 10, 2008 5:22 am

Thanks for the effort yeti_c, it's great to see someone being so productive and trying to find the *best* answer according to consensus.

But I'm afriad I agree with Wicked - the original dots are superior to all the options on your 'range of dots' post, in my opinion.

Of the dots on your 'range of dots' map, I prefer Australia. Africa and South America are too solid already.

If North America were lighter, that'd be great - but that is essentially what the original dots are.

Like I said, the original dots were fine.

For me, the other big issue is the "neon sign" key on the bottom left of the screen for people who can't work out where South America is... the old one was better.

Just wanted to give you some actual feedback yeti_c. Thanks for putting in the effort, appreciated.
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Re: [Official] Classic TOUCH-UP [Quenched]

Postby yeti_c on Thu Apr 10, 2008 5:24 am

T7 wrote:I prefer Australia.


I really liked Aus actually too - although I have a feeling that the army numbers won't stand out well enough against them.

So here's some numbers on the image...
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C.
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