Imperium Romanum [Quenched]

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Re: Imperium Romanum [Quenched]

Postby Qwert on Mon Sep 29, 2008 4:37 pm

Well, I only played one game, but Rome was ignored I think because 12 armies isn't worth the bonus. Maybe you could allow players to start with the cohorts, but increase the starting armies on rome to sixish.

And from one game you conclude that these map is not good balanced :shock:
Call me when you play 15-20 games,and please dont play only 1v1,play all kind of player combination,ok
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Re: Imperium Romanum [Quenched]

Postby Juan_Bottom on Mon Sep 29, 2008 4:54 pm

I'm playing a few qwert. And I think you've pretty much crippled the luck factor. So long as you're not playing 1vs1 and someone gets great dice.

Good job buddy.
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Re: Imperium Romanum [Quenched]

Postby Qwert on Mon Sep 29, 2008 4:58 pm

by Juan_Bottom on Mon Sep 29, 2008 11:54 pm

I'm playing a few qwert. And I think you've pretty much crippled the luck factor. So long as you're not playing 1vs1 and someone gets great dice.

Good job buddy.

Yep,so far these is bigest problem with these map,two turn get crazy bad dice and you are dead. Still can not find solution for these. :geek:
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Re: Imperium Romanum [Quenched]

Postby eigenvector on Wed Oct 01, 2008 12:11 pm

qwert wrote:
The solution I offered is to add links between the navies and continents. The Punic War example was to show that such links make historical sense.

As for Trajan, he waged wars agains the Dacians and the Parthians. But I presume that the map has links between area that *could* be attacked given contemporary military technology, not between areas actually engaged in warfare uring Trajan's reign - because in the latter case you'd have almost no links at all..


YOu offered solution to improve what.

To remedy the fact that in 2-3 player games the navies (and Italy) are systematically ignored. I think it's a pity.

These map dont have continents, and people must have some part of territory to hold,and you have several examples
Baetica-Arabia petraea
Syria-Asia-Bithynia et Pontus
Italia-Praetorian guards and roma
Lugdunensis-Belgica Britannai
Dalmatia Panonia-Thracia Macedonia
Baetica-Taraconensis

Conection betwen africa and sicilia you will brake holding sheme for africa and split on two, and still not get nothing good.

I meant "continents" in the sense of "large landmasses" not in the sense of "bonus-yielding groups of territories". I see it was confusing, sorry.

Anyway, what is "holding sheme for africa"?


Historicaly i realy research (these people kow here that i so many hours spend on researh,because i create historical map-Eastern Front-Western Front-Ardennes Offensive-Iwo JIma BAttle) and i try to be as much possible historical correct. These map is how tittle say Imperium Romanum 117 AD,when empire whas in bigest extend,and in these years Romans whas very peaseful place for live(i think so).
OFcourse you have many other scenarios here-Punic wars map(RubbenCasaar) Roman empire Decline map(i dont know who present that) Buzantine Empire(abandonen) and many others.


I admire your research and like I said many times, the map is very good. However, the argument that the Empire was at peace during those years (no strictly correct but never mind) is specious: in Risk the maps show possible avenues of attack, not actual ones used in a particular period.

Anyway, if you find this tiresome, just leave it like it is, provided you don't mind people ignore a big part of the map.
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Re: Imperium Romanum [Quenched]

Postby Qwert on Wed Oct 01, 2008 12:27 pm

I admire your research and like I said many times, the map is very good. However, the argument that the Empire was at peace during those years (no strictly correct but never mind) is specious: in Risk the maps show possible avenues of attack, not actual ones used in a particular period.

Anyway, if you find this tiresome, just leave it like it is, provided you don't mind people ignore a big part of the map.

Well you new here(in map foundry),and these is how i work, in first place thing must be correct,people here can confirm that, well i start these map,because some people want to create incorect map of roman empire,and i can not watch these,because these will be wrong.
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Re: Imperium Romanum [Quenched]

Postby eigenvector on Wed Oct 01, 2008 12:38 pm

qwert wrote:
I admire your research and like I said many times, the map is very good. However, the argument that the Empire was at peace during those years (no strictly correct but never mind) is specious: in Risk the maps show possible avenues of attack, not actual ones used in a particular period.

Anyway, if you find this tiresome, just leave it like it is, provided you don't mind people ignore a big part of the map.

Well you new here(in map foundry),and these is how i work, in first place thing must be correct,people here can confirm that, well i start these map,because some people want to create incorect map of roman empire,and i can not watch these,because these will be wrong.


Okay, I'll try to make my point like this: suppose I make an accurate map of Western Europe 2000 CE. Since this area is in peace there will be no attacks allowed.

Do you see what I mean? Territory A should be able to attack territory B if it' physically and technically feasible, not if it had actually happened.
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Re: Imperium Romanum [Quenched]

Postby Qwert on Wed Oct 01, 2008 4:07 pm

I understand what you say,but realy can not see that these will improve gameplay of map.
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Re: Imperium Romanum [Quenched]

Postby Aliksander on Wed Oct 01, 2008 4:14 pm

I make 2 suggestions that can be implemented together or separately.

1) Connection between Sicily and Carthage.

2) Connection between Fleets- just connection between adjacent fleets would be sufficient. Ex. East and west Baltics conected, west baltics and eastern Med. connected, East med and central med connected, ect..

Either would potentially break the ultra protective Africa bonus (holding everything in between from Iberia to Syria through africa gives you a legion bonus and +3 Town bonus with only 2 territories to defend. If they can be attacked by sea or at least through Sicily this could weaken this incredibly strong position.
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Re: Imperium Romanum [Quenched]

Postby Qwert on Wed Oct 01, 2008 6:10 pm

by Aliksander on Wed Oct 01, 2008 11:14 pm

I make 2 suggestions that can be implemented together or separately.

1) Connection between Sicily and Carthage.

2) Connection between Fleets- just connection between adjacent fleets would be sufficient. Ex. East and west Baltics conected, west baltics and eastern Med. connected, East med and central med connected, ect..

Either would potentially break the ultra protective Africa bonus (holding everything in between from Iberia to Syria through africa gives you a legion bonus and +3 Town bonus with only 2 territories to defend. If they can be attacked by sea or at least through Sicily this could weaken this incredibly strong position.

ok,you have two sugestion but need more explanation why, and what will bring to gameplay.

"Ultra protective Africa Bonus" what a name
first of all-in these are you have only 4 legions and you can not get bonus,second you have 13 terittory and 6 territory starting neutral(18 neutra army).
In some maps holding 13 teritory you will get more then 3(3 cities). It can be ultra protective place,only if you alove these,because its imposible that player take these area in 4-5 turn(he must get extra crazy dices to do that. 1v1 player,its possible but hard.3,4,5,6,7,8 player harder and harder,with 8 player these is imposibile in 5 round,maybe 15-20,ofcourse with cards.
I play a lot games and people take Britania and armenia first,because its most good defensive bonuses-in africa if you have more players,then who get first ,have chance to loose citi from opponent attack.
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Re: Imperium Romanum [Quenched]

Postby Qwert on Wed Oct 01, 2008 6:21 pm

ok,i so stupid,next time i will check how many games people played in IMperiUM romanum and then give answer.
Aliksander, you start playing only one GAME on These map ,and you all ready know where is problem,can i ask you,how the hell you guys alove to Pink hold All africa,you made zilion mistakes,and you can not create alliance against pink,and when you waiting to responde pink is stronger every turn,so dont blame map,map is not guilty for your bad cooperation against stronger opponent. Play more games on map,and use strategy to win a map. I my self play over 20 games,and know very good what is importan for good start.You can not know only from 1 game(who still not finish)how gameplay working.


eigenvector you play only 4 games,and 3 is 1v1. Can you try to play with 5-6 or more player.
People you must understand that map must be funcional for 8 players not for 1v1.
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Re: Imperium Romanum [Quenched]

Postby eigenvector on Wed Oct 01, 2008 6:27 pm

qwert wrote:ok,i so stupid,next time i will check how many games people played in IMperiUM romanum and then give answer.
Aliksander, you start playing only one GAME on These map ,and you all ready know where is problem,can i ask you,how the hell you guys alove to Pink hold All africa,you made zilion mistakes,and you can not create alliance against pink,and when you waiting to responde pink is stronger every turn,so dont blame map,map is not guilty for your bad cooperation against stronger opponent. Play more games on map,and use strategy to win a map. I my self play over 20 games,and know very good what is importan for good start.You can not know only from 1 game(who still not finish)how gameplay working.


eigenvector you play only 4 games,and 3 is 1v1. Can you try to play with 5-6 or more player.
People you must understand that map must be funcional for 8 players not for 1v1.


Okay, I'll try that. But note that i said from the start that y point is about 2-3 layer games...
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Re: Imperium Romanum [Quenched]

Postby Aliksander on Thu Oct 02, 2008 4:11 pm

qwert wrote:ok,i so stupid,next time i will check how many games people played in IMperiUM romanum and then give answer.
Aliksander, you start playing only one GAME on These map ,and you all ready know where is problem,can i ask you,how the hell you guys alove to Pink hold All africa,you made zilion mistakes,and you can not create alliance against pink,and when you waiting to responde pink is stronger every turn,so dont blame map,map is not guilty for your bad cooperation against stronger opponent. Play more games on map,and use strategy to win a map. I my self play over 20 games,and know very good what is importan for good start.You can not know only from 1 game(who still not finish)how gameplay working.


eigenvector you play only 4 games,and 3 is 1v1. Can you try to play with 5-6 or more player.
People you must understand that map must be funcional for 8 players not for 1v1.


Ok listen I don't need to play a game multiple times in order to see a flaw or an obviously strong position. If you notice I was early on able to recognize that pink in my game will become VERY strong if he gains all of africa, and in spite of me and green making attempts to extricate him we have been unsuccessful. I say this position in your map is flawed because it is too easy to hold for a good bonus (considering the rarity of bonuses in your map). All the other bonuses on the map require much more effort to hold without the same payoff. Now normally this wouldn't be a problem if there were more than 2 vectors through which we could attack him (say, through the sea as I suggested?) so that his bonus roughly equals the effort he would have to put into defending it. Furthermore, I don't see the point in not allowing fleets to attack one another, at least in a limited sense, for this ALONE would balance the map IMO.
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Re: Imperium Romanum [Quenched]

Postby Qwert on Thu Oct 02, 2008 4:59 pm

Ok listen I don't need to play a game multiple times in order to see a flaw or an obviously strong position. If you notice I was early on able to recognize that pink in my game will become VERY strong if he gains all of africa, and in spite of me and green making attempts to extricate him we have been unsuccessful. I say this position in your map is flawed because it is too easy to hold for a good bonus (considering the rarity of bonuses in your map). All the other bonuses on the map require much more effort to hold without the same payoff. Now normally this wouldn't be a problem if there were more than 2 vectors through which we could attack him (say, through the sea as I suggested?) so that his bonus roughly equals the effort he would have to put into defending it. Furthermore, I don't see the point in not allowing fleets to attack one another, at least in a limited sense, for this ALONE would balance the map IMO.

You think so? You say that one game in any map give you full picture of gameplay.
I look game log from these one game what you play on imperium romanum.
Something what is most interesting that pink dont have any territory in africa,you have one and yellow have 3. You play 13 round,and you have plenty turns to stop pink to take all africa,instead these you fight for armenia,dacia and other part of map. You give time to pink to take ,Mauretania Tingitana,MAuretania Caesariensis,Africa Proconsularis,Crete and Curenaica,Aegyptus plus he take Arabia petraea to,without any resistance, now these what i call yours mistake,because these is no card map,and you to have chance to put in your africa territory reinfocment to stop pink,and yellow,well he have most mistake,he whas in good position to fight for africa,instead these he aloving to pink take all three territory in africa.Just look game log,and you will see why pink hold all africa,and in begining he dont have any territory in africa.
I play over 20 games,and so far only bad dice decide winner.
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Re: Imperium Romanum [Quenched]

Postby Ditoboisy on Tue Oct 21, 2008 10:06 pm

qwert wrote:
by Ditoboisy on Wed Sep 24, 2008 11:19 pm

I think this map is a little confusing.

Can you be more specific,what is confusing?


I mean it is hard to follow which territories can attack and which ones can't. And it just looks like it would take several times of playing to figure out the map. It just seems overwhelming to me, but some people like that. There are maps like D-Day or the siege map, but it doesn't seem as confusing of which territory touches each other.
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Re: Imperium Romanum [Quenched]

Postby ironbuttaxe on Fri Oct 24, 2008 8:44 pm

I like this map, i like the idea of controlling the cities rather than territories, it makes a change. One suggestion though, as Rome is the centre of the empire both administratively and symbolically, it should be a MUCH bigger prize to gain and hold. I'd say you should get a bonus of say, 4 to hold Rome. At the moment it's not worth the sacrifice. It should be something worth fighting for.

Also, I prefer maps with more space than fancy graphics, so you can concentrate on the field of play, but I realise that's just a personal preference.
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Re: Imperium Romanum [Quenched]

Postby Qwert on Sat Oct 25, 2008 9:32 am

by ironbuttaxe on Sat Oct 25, 2008 3:44 am

I like this map, i like the idea of controlling the cities rather than territories, it makes a change. One suggestion though, as Rome is the centre of the empire both administratively and symbolically, it should be a MUCH bigger prize to gain and hold. I'd say you should get a bonus of say, 4 to hold Rome. At the moment it's not worth the sacrifice. It should be something worth fighting for.

Also, I prefer maps with more space than fancy graphics, so you can concentrate on the field of play, but I realise that's just a personal preference.

Well i spend more time to map be balanced,so if someon manage to hold Rome,then he will be in big advantage over other players,if i add +4 for 1 territory.
every thing in map must apply CC standards,and these mean that Graphic also must be in aceptabile level in CC. These is historical map,and all provinces is historical correct, and that why some territory is biger and some territory is small.
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Re: Imperium Romanum [Quenched]

Postby ironbuttaxe on Sat Oct 25, 2008 10:45 am

But a player should have a big advantage in holding Rome, Rome should be worth fighting for, that would be more historically accurate. And so you would have a game that was different in two ways - the city states bonus, and the ultimate city state bonus - very interesting.
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Re: Imperium Romanum [Quenched]

Postby Qwert on Sun Oct 26, 2008 6:06 pm

by ironbuttaxe on Sat Oct 25, 2008 5:45 pm

But a player should have a big advantage in holding Rome, Rome should be worth fighting for, that would be more historically accurate. And so you would have a game that was different in two ways - the city states bonus, and the ultimate city state bonus - very interesting.

We must think abouth map balance-if you play 1v1 and you take Roma,then these map will not longer been balanced,because every player who take roma will be in big advantage,and will won game.+4 for one territory its to much,and if you add +1 for Cohorts these give you a +5 for part of map who you need to defend only with one territory. These bonuses will be to much,and map will be unbalanced.
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Re: Imperium Romanum [Quenched]

Postby Floppie on Wed Nov 26, 2008 4:58 pm

I've encountered a serious problem on this map. I just deployed 23 units onto Italia with two enemy territories bordering it, and I'm told I can't make any attacks.
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Re: Imperium Romanum [Quenched]

Postby Qwert on Thu Dec 04, 2008 5:37 pm

You must provide game numbers to see what is wrong. ;)
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Re: Imperium Romanum [Quenched]

Postby Incandenza on Fri Dec 05, 2008 3:55 am

Floppie wrote:I've encountered a serious problem on this map. I just deployed 23 units onto Italia with two enemy territories bordering it, and I'm told I can't make any attacks.


Game 3655963 It's because you dropped your armies on your teammate, which was pointed out in game chat and should have been perfectly obvious. User error.
THOTA: dingdingdingdingdingdingBOOM

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Re: Imperium Romanum [Quenched]

Postby Qwert on Fri Dec 05, 2008 8:21 am

I see,well next time be careful when you deploy troops. ;)
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Re: Imperium Romanum [Quenched]

Postby paulk on Thu Jan 08, 2009 11:12 pm

It's a nice map, but the game play is not working as intended.

I am involved in game http://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=3905243 and as anyone can see the game is half way through, but so far only 1 of the ships have been conquered and the wolves and the Roma bonus (the Roma Defence Incert) has been totally untouched.

I believe that this is because the neutrals are too many. If they were 1 instead of 3 it could be worth attacking them to gain more territories (and ultimately bonuses) but for the cost of 3 I will not do it.

So my suggestion is to change the neutrals on the ships and the wolves from 3 to 1. I know the map is quenched, but I think this should be done anyway.
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Re: Imperium Romanum [Quenched]

Postby Qwert on Fri Jan 09, 2009 10:27 am

these 4 territory worth 2-and have great defence-only one territory.
3 is normal number of army on begining,and everybody have same number of army.
Ships wort even more-4 ships 4 army.
If i put 1 neutral,then everybody will in start have great chance to get these bonuses(expecialy Cohort bonuses who is easy to defend),and who first take Roma and cohort will have big advantage-expecialy in 1v1 games.
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Re: Imperium Romanum [Quenched]

Postby paulk on Sat Jan 10, 2009 10:40 pm

Some reduction of the number of armies on the bonuses should be done, since otherwise the bonuses are not worth attacking.

This is my suggestion:
The towns/banners are the only ones that in my opinion should start with 3 starting neutrals, as it currently is.
I think 1 neutral is a good start for the ships, since you have to hold 4 out of 7 ships to get the bonus of 4. It is not that easy to hold 4 ships one round.
Or you could change the bonus to be 2 for every 3 ships. Or a combination of 2 for 3 and 4 for 4, even though I personally think a combination would be bad gameplay.
Since 3 wolves only are worth 1 bonus, that should in my opinion also only be 1 neutral. As it is you have to fight 9 neutrals to get 1 bonus. A cost that statistically will take 9 rounds to get paid back, and there is no critical need to go through/conquer those.
If you get the town as well, that is a cost of 12, (or 15, since you have to conquer Italy as well,) for a bonus of 2, with only one point to defend, as you said. So then the payback will be taking 6-8 rounds.
One option could be to make the first wolf 1, the second 2 and the third 3 before Roma - starting with 3 neutrals.
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