Rail Australia [Quenched]

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Postby fumandomuerte on Mon Mar 03, 2008 9:13 pm

On the extra bonuses box you wrote the CountryLinkXPT as:
MEL-ALB-CMA-GBA-SYD-NWC-CSO-BNE
It should be:
MEL-ALB-CMA-GBN-SYD-NWC-CSO-BNE

Also, you should change de color of the ADL multi-station on map, it's hard to see it.
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Postby Tieryn on Tue Mar 04, 2008 8:17 am

I was actually liking the map better without a hub... I don't think the hub concept represents Australia rail at all... is it completely necessary?

Are you going to have multiple rails running to connect to each port of the hub? or are they just done on one rail line... and thus, only need a station anyway?

I like the new long-distance mechanism with coloured words for state rails... I think the silhouette needs to not cross over the aboriginal art lines.

With bonuses: need to remember that holding q-rail also means you are holding the sunlander, so is it a +10 bonus?

Also in the ghan, mga needs to be mai before kga. and why are there purple rail lines in s.aus?
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Postby FreeMan10 on Tue Mar 04, 2008 9:38 am

I'm not sold on ADL as a hub, either.

1) You show 4 lines/stations at the hub, but it's not connected to four different colored stations, or any paired line stations (like LMR in RailUSA). As a matter of fact, it only appears to be connected to three stations (PGA, BHL, BDT). I think you may have been intending a connection to MDA?

2) There are purple rails connecting ADL to BHL, but ADL itself is/was a brown station and BHL is blue/cyan.

3) After some close inspection, I just noticed that you have "ADL" floating in the water off the southern coast, west of the station boxes - it doesn't tie in well with the station itself. I'm sure this would be patched up in further revisions.

4) It just has the feel that you added this in to be consistent with RailUSA and RailEurope. I honestly hadn't noticed it missing until you put it in. It really does feel as though it's a last-minute afterthought, not a designed in cohesive whole. Tieryn mentioned that it's not representative of Australia rail, and I can't comment on that, but it does just seem tacked on for the sake of tacking it on.




As far as the tin roofs (rusted!) go, I think that makes it too busy, especially if you're putting the continent abbreviation in the roof (as you have for AR & QR, so far).

The background train looks fine to me, though I didn't have an issue with the previous. What's the thing sticking up in the left foreground of that image? That's the only odd part.

Why are some stations connected by rails, and some by lines? I think the single line is satisfactory, and will eliminate much of the issues you're currently having on RailEurope in trying to make them look 'good'. From this high, satellite view of OZ, a single line is all you're gonna see anyway.


I'm looking forward to playing this and learning some OZ geography!
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Postby Tieryn on Tue Mar 04, 2008 9:55 am

FreeMan10 wrote:I'm not sold on ADL as a hub, either.
The background train looks fine to me, though I didn't have an issue with the previous. What's the thing sticking up in the left foreground of that image? That's the only odd part.

Why are some stations connected by rails, and some by lines? I think the single line is satisfactory, and will eliminate much of the issues you're currently having on RailEurope in trying to make them look 'good'. From this high, satellite view of OZ, a single line is all you're gonna see anyway.


The thing standing up in the foreground in West Aus is a kangaroo... :D and yes, they are odd :P but cool!

All basic connections are by single line... All connections that are part of the "long distance" network are done double=line. I think this is a good way to distinguish between them and identify the long-dist routes.

I personally like the tin roofs, and especially like the P/X/T down the side. That makes long-distance train-id-ing much easier.

Another negative on the hub - I don't like how it replaces the aboriginal artwork that was there... it unbalances the picture for me. *shrug* :P maybe I just don't like the hub. But excuses are excuses! :P
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Postby FreeMan10 on Tue Mar 04, 2008 9:58 am

Tieryn wrote:The thing standing up in the foreground in West Aus is a kangaroo... :D and yes, they are odd :P but cool!
That's what I assumed, but I couldn't make it into one when I was typing that last post. I see it now... :oops:

All basic connections are by single line... All connections that are part of the "long distance" network are done double=line. I think this is a good way to distinguish between them and identify the long-dist routes.
Makes sense. I'll have to go back and look it over to ensure I'm following all the connections. I was thinking along those lines, too, but not seeing it... :oops: :oops:

Maybe I should stop spending so many hours staring at a stupid monitor...
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Postby lord voldemort on Tue Mar 04, 2008 10:10 am

well actually when rail ways were used for major means of transport adelaide was the hub....
and i like adelaide as the hub... :evil:
it needs to be touched up and fixed a bit but i like the idea
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Postby Tieryn on Tue Mar 04, 2008 10:13 am

You're just trying to get Adelaide on the map :P settle for a territory like the rest of us! Sheesh. You're gettin greedy Drew :P
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Postby lord voldemort on Tue Mar 04, 2008 10:28 am

Tieryn wrote:You're just trying to get Adelaide on the map :P settle for a territory like the rest of us! Sheesh. You're gettin greedy Drew :P

:-$ i do still like the idea though even if it wasnt RADelaide
actually cairns can u call it RADelaide??
but yer i still like the hub idea. if your building a rail network there needs to be a hub.
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Postby Tieryn on Tue Mar 04, 2008 10:44 am

lord voldemort wrote:
Tieryn wrote:You're just trying to get Adelaide on the map :P settle for a territory like the rest of us! Sheesh. You're gettin greedy Drew :P

:-$ i do still like the idea though even if it wasnt RADelaide
actually cairns can u call it RADelaide??
but yer i still like the hub idea. if your building a rail network there needs to be a hub.


I disagree. In places like america/europe it makes sense... but our "hubs" are really just stations with one extra platform... Come on... really :P there's not much to connect, and the places that do, are not centralised!

The Australian rail network does not have a single "central" type location. it -is- all distributed.

And you can only call it RADelaide, if we get to call it FUNbury.
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Postby lord voldemort on Tue Mar 04, 2008 11:14 am

Tieryn wrote:
lord voldemort wrote:
Tieryn wrote:You're just trying to get Adelaide on the map :P settle for a territory like the rest of us! Sheesh. You're gettin greedy Drew :P

:-$ i do still like the idea though even if it wasnt RADelaide
actually cairns can u call it RADelaide??
but yer i still like the hub idea. if your building a rail network there needs to be a hub.


I disagree. In places like america/europe it makes sense... but our "hubs" are really just stations with one extra platform... Come on... really :P there's not much to connect, and the places that do, are not centralised!

The Australian rail network does not have a single "central" type location. it -is- all distributed.

And you can only call it RADelaide, if we get to call it FUNbury.


cept albury isnt fun :roll: :P
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Postby cairnswk on Tue Mar 04, 2008 3:55 pm

Tieryn wrote:
FreeMan10 wrote:I'm not sold on ADL as a hub, either.


All basic connections are by single line... All connections that are part of the "long distance" network are done double=line. I think this is a good way to distinguish between them and identify the long-dist routes.

I personally like the tin roofs, and especially like the P/X/T down the side. That makes long-distance train-id-ing much easier.

Another negative on the hub - I don't like how it replaces the aboriginal artwork that was there... it unbalances the picture for me. *shrug* :P maybe I just don't like the hub. But excuses are excuses! :P


Guys thanks for feedback on these elements....let me explain.

1. It was always my intention to try to tie elements of the RAIL series map together. This can be achieved in a couple of ways.

While the boomerang style roofs were more distinctly australian, the tin roofs are going to tie this map in with the USA map roof style in that they're the same shape but tin roofing is disctinctly more Australian. (perhaps i should even add the Hills hoist and the victa lawn mower and do an olympics thing)

2. the hub is another way of tying these maps together...it is not as big the other other two, but having it in Adelaide was not put there for Lord V's ego...it is put there because Adelaide is the obvious choice as there is the Indian Pacific, The Ghan, The Overlander and the SARail all with hubs there. I know we don't have a Railway hub per say here in australia, but having it in Adelaide allows a smaller version to be created. It does need work though.

3. I will try to do something with hub so that it doesn't interfere with the aboriginal design.

4. I will fix the codes in next post.
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Postby lord voldemort on Tue Mar 04, 2008 9:02 pm

cairnswk wrote:2. the hub is another way of tying these maps together...it is not as big the other other two, but having it in Adelaide was not put there for Lord V's ego...it is put there because Adelaide is the obvious choice as there is the Indian Pacific, The Ghan, The Overlander and the SARail all with hubs there. I know we don't have a Railway hub per say here in australia, but having it in Adelaide allows a smaller version to be created. It does need work though.


are you sure??
well it certainly helps
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Postby cairnswk on Tue Mar 04, 2008 9:15 pm

lord voldemort wrote:
cairnswk wrote:2. the hub is another way of tying these maps together...it is not as big the other other two, but having it in Adelaide was not put there for Lord V's ego...it is put there because Adelaide is the obvious choice as there is the Indian Pacific, The Ghan, The Overlander and the SARail all with hubs there. I know we don't have a Railway hub per say here in australia, but having it in Adelaide allows a smaller version to be created. It does need work though.


are you sure??
well it certainly helps


Well the Ghan leaves from there.
The Overlander leaves from there
The SARail runs from there
The I-P also runs through there.
So yes it is the best place to have a hub.
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Postby oaktown on Tue Mar 04, 2008 10:00 pm

in terms of play I can take or leave the hub... I suspect the negative feedback on it has something to do with the fact that graphically it really stands out.
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Postby lord voldemort on Tue Mar 04, 2008 10:31 pm

graphically the hub needs work
game play and "storyline" (for use of a better word) it is good
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Postby cairnswk on Wed Mar 05, 2008 12:58 am

Version 11a

Guys, i'm flooded out here in Cairns, the floods cut the roads and i couldn't get to work today :twisted: so i worked on this and i put all those little tin roofs on it.....plus changed the colours around a bit....I also 'xperimented with the hub and decided against putting one in...as much as i'd like to help it tie in with the other maps, i don't think it needs it.....
but alas it looks shocking (like a pyjama party) so we'll go back to the drawing and do this again.
Just thought i'd show you anyways.

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Postby Tieryn on Wed Mar 05, 2008 8:32 am

Haha, pyjama party indeed... tho I like it, but you can't really see the tin corregation at that level... perhaps each moutain/valley needs to be 4 px wide to be able to show some gradual change in height rather than 2px as currently, and just be a colour/white/colour/white.

Hub wise, okay, so "story"wise, it kinda works, and yes I guess my -major- objection was graphically it was just tacked on. How about work -with- the aboriginal design?

That circle has 4 quadrants. Each quadrant could be designed and extracted to form a territory, this could then "grow" from the Adl station into the hub for the 4 long distances rails.

This would also spice up the holding of the long distance rail lines to some extent. Work on developing this graphically and i won't have a problem with it. It was the "added on to look like rail US/Europe" bit that threw me. Make it a hub, but make it a distinctly "Rail Aus" hub.
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Postby cairnswk on Fri Mar 07, 2008 3:33 pm

Tieryn wrote:That circle has 4 quadrants. Each quadrant could be designed and extracted to form a territory, this could then "grow" from the Adl station into the hub for the 4 long distances rails.

This would also spice up the holding of the long distance rail lines to some extent. Work on developing this graphically and i won't have a problem with it. It was the "added on to look like rail US/Europe" bit that threw me. Make it a hub, but make it a distinctly "Rail Aus" hub.


Yes i had tried using that quardant, but it hadn't worked, but i'll try it again to see if i can do something more appealing.
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Postby trk1994 on Tue Mar 11, 2008 9:50 am

I love the railroad maps. I don't have any real comments on what to do for it b/c I don't really know much about rail systems or coding games. I just wanted ya'll to know that work is not wasted on refining these type of maps. btw if hubs could be worked in that would be cool. they do fit with the line of maps and I personally like them. They make things interesting when triing to fort b/c of multiple lines of attack. I also like the addition of resource bonuses for connecting rail lines and the long haul bonuses.

have you thought of making maps with the U.S. interstate highway system? That would offer MANY lines of attack. Cairnswk, after you got me into that waterloo game I'm looking at complex maps in a whole new light. thanx
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Postby cairnswk on Tue Mar 11, 2008 2:29 pm

trk1994 wrote:I love the railroad maps. I don't have any real comments on what to do for it b/c I don't really know much about rail systems or coding games. I just wanted ya'll to know that work is not wasted on refining these type of maps. btw if hubs could be worked in that would be cool. they do fit with the line of maps and I personally like them. They make things interesting when triing to fort b/c of multiple lines of attack. I also like the addition of resource bonuses for connecting rail lines and the long haul bonuses.

have you thought of making maps with the U.S. interstate highway system? That would offer MANY lines of attack. Cairnswk, after you got me into that waterloo game I'm looking at complex maps in a whole new light. thanx


Thanks trk1994. Glad to hear you like these challenges on railroads.
No i hadn't thought about the highway systems, but thanks for the idea.
And of course, after your Waterloo games, a wonderful outcome for all.
Keep up the comments. :)
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Postby iancanton on Sat Mar 15, 2008 10:44 am

cairnswk wrote:what would make the eruopean map look more european?


that's a difficult one. europe is very diverse and, since some places on the map aren't in the european union, u can't even use an eu flag image. however, this is a bit off-topic.

hope ur feet are dry now.

u have two city codes for darwin: DWN on the map and DRW in the legend. putting "darwin dwn" into google produces darwin, minnesota as the first link, while "darwin drw" gives darwin, northern territory. i conclude that DRW is more logical.

it's not 100% clear which route to port the minerals must take between mount isa and townsville. i assume there's meant to be an orange box at hughenden to show the way.

while on the subject of mount isa, i suggest that ISA will be more recognisable than MTI as the city code.

i agree that a hub isn't necessary for this map. however, if u put one in, then would using a square prism as the adelaide hub work better than the curious half-hub in version 10?

ian. :)
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Postby cairnswk on Sat Mar 15, 2008 9:49 pm

iancanton wrote:
cairnswk wrote:what would make the eruopean map look more european?


that's a difficult one. europe is very diverse and, since some places on the map aren't in the european union, u can't even use an eu flag image. however, this is a bit off-topic.

hope ur feet are dry now.

u have two city codes for darwin: DWN on the map and DRW in the legend. putting "darwin dwn" into google produces darwin, minnesota as the first link, while "darwin drw" gives darwin, northern territory. i conclude that DRW is more logical.

it's not 100% clear which route to port the minerals must take between mount isa and townsville. i assume there's meant to be an orange box at hughenden to show the way.

while on the subject of mount isa, i suggest that ISA will be more recognisable than MTI as the city code.

i agree that a hub isn't necessary for this map. however, if u put one in, then would using a square prism as the adelaide hub work better than the curious half-hub in version 10?

ian. :)


ian...nope...still wet feet, been raining here for 5 days...monsson season, but at least we are not flooded.
Thanks for the comments. I'll attend to those suggestions re ISA and DRW.
The hub i am trying to work something into that meeting place symbol.
Most likely to be a quad with rounded edges. :)
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Postby FreeMan10 on Wed Mar 19, 2008 11:24 pm

Well, I've managed to stop spending so much time staring at a stupid monitor! :)

Cairns, sorry to hear about your flooding, but that brings up a good point. Maybe you should elevate all the rail lines so we don't have any washouts. That'd put a real crimp in the game, and might even cause players to miss turns waiting for the tracks to be repaired! :lol:

I think it was Oaktown who guessed that the hub was panned because of graphical issues, not game play. I'd agree with that statement.

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Postby cairnswk on Sun Mar 23, 2008 12:26 am

OK VErsion 12 update.

1. Finally figureed out the Adelaide hub to look like a digeridoo - fits map and retains link to other rail maps.
2. still have to re-work the eastern half of the station boxes in the eastern states.
3. Bonus long distance background will look like a glass station.

EDIT\\\ Those eastern station boxes are now fixed and re-configured.

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Postby Tieryn on Sun Mar 23, 2008 12:32 am

Oh bravo... I LOVE the didge... that's top notch dude. I'll update the XML soon to include new hub-logic and territories.
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