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Postby Tieryn on Sat Feb 23, 2008 5:49 am

Thirdly... It's not stated... what are we doing with ports?

All connecting? (Just balance wise this blows my connections spreadsheet all out of proportion for ports... but it's do-able)

Adjacent Connecting? Balance wise I'd prefer this

No Connections at all? This is also perfectly acceptable for my feel of the game just by writing out all of the connections... I've done it so far as is, I'll re-check the bonus calculations tomorrow.

Can you give me a decision by tomorrow cairns? It would mean I can push ahead on the codeside.

Also, territory from WA - SA, I've not heard of Loongana, but Eucla would be the town I'd pick as being there (it's on the border of SA/WA pretty much) not sure if the rail goes there, tho I'd suspect it did... could you check up on this?
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Postby Tieryn on Sun Feb 24, 2008 12:50 am

First draft of the XML is available here: http://www.sendspace.com/file/7tocgt. XML is tested and valid to this stage. Given there's no special features it's all pretty straight forward and should remain valid when co-ords are added.

All co-ordinates are currently set to 1/1/1/1, but are easily changeable later, when the map is set.

All ports are connected in this XML, I have re-calc'd bonuses which are slightly different to what is on map currently, the calc is posted below, Cairns can you have a look and see what you'd like to set them to from the info below? Not sure if you're splitting up some of the continent bonuses due to the long-distance tracks that are inside them (I think that'd be a good idea) but that can be changed with ease.

Image

:D and that's me xml'd out for the day, more when changes happen ;).
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Postby cairnswk on Sun Feb 24, 2008 1:02 am

Tieryn wrote:
:D and that's me xml'd out for the day, more when changes happen ;).


Thanks Tieryn...I'm still going with Gazala large map coordinates....i was xmled out ages ago. :)
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Postby cairnswk on Sun Feb 24, 2008 5:04 am

Tieryn wrote:Thirdly... It's not stated... what are we doing with ports?

All connecting? (Just balance wise this blows my connections spreadsheet all out of proportion for ports... but it's do-able)

Adjacent Connecting? Balance wise I'd prefer this

No Connections at all? This is also perfectly acceptable for my feel of the game just by writing out all of the connections... I've done it so far as is, I'll re-check the bonus calculations tomorrow.

Can you give me a decision by tomorrow cairns? It would mean I can push ahead on the codeside.

Also, territory from WA - SA, I've not heard of Loongana, but Eucla would be the town I'd pick as being there (it's on the border of SA/WA pretty much) not sure if the rail goes there, tho I'd suspect it did... could you check up on this?


1. port connections are coming off....does not coincide with the rail gameplay

2. Loongana stays.....it is on my WA rail map.
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Postby onbekende on Sun Feb 24, 2008 1:30 pm

Tieryn wrote:Image

:D and that's me xml'd out for the day, more when changes happen ;).
that r roughly my calc, but don't fix you on the calculated bonus he!
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Postby Tieryn on Sun Feb 24, 2008 3:43 pm

That's wrong now anyway as it uses ports as attacking each other, which isn't really -rail- Australia anyway heh... so I'll re-do it with new numbers soon.

What I was mainly looking at was the "calculated" which territory should be more and how that maps to what is... but I suspect that will change with ports gone.
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Postby cairnswk on Sun Feb 24, 2008 3:58 pm

Tieryn wrote:That's wrong now anyway as it uses ports as attacking each other, which isn't really -rail- Australia anyway heh... so I'll re-do it with new numbers soon.

What I was mainly looking at was the "calculated" which territory should be more and how that maps to what is... but I suspect that will change with ports gone.


Tieryn, please hold off on all changes. I am consulting oaktown re the CB issue. Also, there is a complete redesign coming up for the stations as they need to carry a lot more information, similar to Rail Europe. Also, i don't like the rail line thingy for the long distance trains so that will be re-worked anyway.
Off to work now...cheers.
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Postby Tieryn on Mon Feb 25, 2008 9:04 am

Not a prob, with excel, it's easy to make changes. But I'll leave it where it is until more graphics are finalised.
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Postby oaktown on Tue Feb 26, 2008 11:05 pm

cairnswk wrote: I am consulting oaktown re the CB issue.

Of course, mine is only one flavor of colorblindness, but the colors I have the worst time distinguishing are QRail and TasRail. Fortunately the two colors don't intersect, and the bonuses are so different that it's evident which is which, so it's not really an issue. If VicRail was a bit darker that'd set it apart a bit for me, but it's alright as is.

Overall I'd say these colors are fine for me to play with as is.
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Postby cairnswk on Wed Feb 27, 2008 6:24 am

oaktown wrote:
cairnswk wrote: I am consulting oaktown re the CB issue.

Of course, mine is only one flavor of colorblindness, but the colors I have the worst time distinguishing are QRail and TasRail. Fortunately the two colors don't intersect, and the bonuses are so different that it's evident which is which, so it's not really an issue. If VicRail was a bit darker that'd set it apart a bit for me, but it's alright as is.

Overall I'd say these colors are fine for me to play with as is.


Thanks oaktown....i'll make those adjustments for you and hope this will also please others.
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Postby iancanton on Thu Feb 28, 2008 8:30 pm

a very nice map. this looks a lot more australian than rail europe looks european.

regarding the bonuses: i think the bonus for nsw rail ought to be more than the ones for qrail and wa because nsw rail is more connected. its position, which virtually shields qrail from attack, means that it’s much more likely to be the victim itself of a successful attack that breaks the bonus. of the three, wa looks to be by far the easiest to hold, not being near either of the other two large continents, and therefore deserves the least bonus.

ian. :)
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Postby cairnswk on Mon Mar 03, 2008 4:35 am

iancanton wrote:a very nice map. this looks a lot more australian than rail europe looks european.

regarding the bonuses: i think the bonus for nsw rail ought to be more than the ones for qrail and wa because nsw rail is more connected. its position, which virtually shields qrail from attack, means that it’s much more likely to be the victim itself of a successful attack that breaks the bonus. of the three, wa looks to be by far the easiest to hold, not being near either of the other two large continents, and therefore deserves the least bonus.

ian. :)


thanks ian, about the australianism of the map.
what would make the eruopean map look more european? nobody seems to have commented on this, not that i have asked.
i'll exam the bonuses again soon. :)
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Postby cairnswk on Mon Mar 03, 2008 1:23 pm

Version 10

Just wanted to get some feedback on these changes before i proceed with them any further....

1. the tin roofs over sydney newcastle and werris creek
2. new background silhouette for the long distance trains
3. removal of the rails and replace with the stations in state colours
4. addition of adelaide as the hub, we don't have a large hub in oz like in usa and europe.
Whatta ya think?

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Postby lord voldemort on Mon Mar 03, 2008 1:44 pm

I LOVE ADELAIDE AS A HUB!!!
you did this just for me didnt you cairns??

im liking the look of this atm its good
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Postby fumandomuerte on Mon Mar 03, 2008 9:11 pm

On the extra bonuses box you wrote the CountryLinkXPT as:
MEL-ALB-CMA-GBA-SYD-NWC-CSO-BNE
It should be:
MEL-ALB-CMA-GBN-SYD-NWC-CSO-BNE

Also, you should change de color of the ADL multi-station on map, it's hard to see it.
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Postby fumandomuerte on Mon Mar 03, 2008 9:13 pm

On the extra bonuses box you wrote the CountryLinkXPT as:
MEL-ALB-CMA-GBA-SYD-NWC-CSO-BNE
It should be:
MEL-ALB-CMA-GBN-SYD-NWC-CSO-BNE

Also, you should change de color of the ADL multi-station on map, it's hard to see it.
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Postby Tieryn on Tue Mar 04, 2008 8:17 am

I was actually liking the map better without a hub... I don't think the hub concept represents Australia rail at all... is it completely necessary?

Are you going to have multiple rails running to connect to each port of the hub? or are they just done on one rail line... and thus, only need a station anyway?

I like the new long-distance mechanism with coloured words for state rails... I think the silhouette needs to not cross over the aboriginal art lines.

With bonuses: need to remember that holding q-rail also means you are holding the sunlander, so is it a +10 bonus?

Also in the ghan, mga needs to be mai before kga. and why are there purple rail lines in s.aus?
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Postby FreeMan10 on Tue Mar 04, 2008 9:38 am

I'm not sold on ADL as a hub, either.

1) You show 4 lines/stations at the hub, but it's not connected to four different colored stations, or any paired line stations (like LMR in RailUSA). As a matter of fact, it only appears to be connected to three stations (PGA, BHL, BDT). I think you may have been intending a connection to MDA?

2) There are purple rails connecting ADL to BHL, but ADL itself is/was a brown station and BHL is blue/cyan.

3) After some close inspection, I just noticed that you have "ADL" floating in the water off the southern coast, west of the station boxes - it doesn't tie in well with the station itself. I'm sure this would be patched up in further revisions.

4) It just has the feel that you added this in to be consistent with RailUSA and RailEurope. I honestly hadn't noticed it missing until you put it in. It really does feel as though it's a last-minute afterthought, not a designed in cohesive whole. Tieryn mentioned that it's not representative of Australia rail, and I can't comment on that, but it does just seem tacked on for the sake of tacking it on.




As far as the tin roofs (rusted!) go, I think that makes it too busy, especially if you're putting the continent abbreviation in the roof (as you have for AR & QR, so far).

The background train looks fine to me, though I didn't have an issue with the previous. What's the thing sticking up in the left foreground of that image? That's the only odd part.

Why are some stations connected by rails, and some by lines? I think the single line is satisfactory, and will eliminate much of the issues you're currently having on RailEurope in trying to make them look 'good'. From this high, satellite view of OZ, a single line is all you're gonna see anyway.


I'm looking forward to playing this and learning some OZ geography!
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Postby Tieryn on Tue Mar 04, 2008 9:55 am

FreeMan10 wrote:I'm not sold on ADL as a hub, either.
The background train looks fine to me, though I didn't have an issue with the previous. What's the thing sticking up in the left foreground of that image? That's the only odd part.

Why are some stations connected by rails, and some by lines? I think the single line is satisfactory, and will eliminate much of the issues you're currently having on RailEurope in trying to make them look 'good'. From this high, satellite view of OZ, a single line is all you're gonna see anyway.


The thing standing up in the foreground in West Aus is a kangaroo... :D and yes, they are odd :P but cool!

All basic connections are by single line... All connections that are part of the "long distance" network are done double=line. I think this is a good way to distinguish between them and identify the long-dist routes.

I personally like the tin roofs, and especially like the P/X/T down the side. That makes long-distance train-id-ing much easier.

Another negative on the hub - I don't like how it replaces the aboriginal artwork that was there... it unbalances the picture for me. *shrug* :P maybe I just don't like the hub. But excuses are excuses! :P
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Postby FreeMan10 on Tue Mar 04, 2008 9:58 am

Tieryn wrote:The thing standing up in the foreground in West Aus is a kangaroo... :D and yes, they are odd :P but cool!
That's what I assumed, but I couldn't make it into one when I was typing that last post. I see it now... :oops:

All basic connections are by single line... All connections that are part of the "long distance" network are done double=line. I think this is a good way to distinguish between them and identify the long-dist routes.
Makes sense. I'll have to go back and look it over to ensure I'm following all the connections. I was thinking along those lines, too, but not seeing it... :oops: :oops:

Maybe I should stop spending so many hours staring at a stupid monitor...
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Postby lord voldemort on Tue Mar 04, 2008 10:10 am

well actually when rail ways were used for major means of transport adelaide was the hub....
and i like adelaide as the hub... :evil:
it needs to be touched up and fixed a bit but i like the idea
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Postby Tieryn on Tue Mar 04, 2008 10:13 am

You're just trying to get Adelaide on the map :P settle for a territory like the rest of us! Sheesh. You're gettin greedy Drew :P
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Postby lord voldemort on Tue Mar 04, 2008 10:28 am

Tieryn wrote:You're just trying to get Adelaide on the map :P settle for a territory like the rest of us! Sheesh. You're gettin greedy Drew :P

:-$ i do still like the idea though even if it wasnt RADelaide
actually cairns can u call it RADelaide??
but yer i still like the hub idea. if your building a rail network there needs to be a hub.
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Postby Tieryn on Tue Mar 04, 2008 10:44 am

lord voldemort wrote:
Tieryn wrote:You're just trying to get Adelaide on the map :P settle for a territory like the rest of us! Sheesh. You're gettin greedy Drew :P

:-$ i do still like the idea though even if it wasnt RADelaide
actually cairns can u call it RADelaide??
but yer i still like the hub idea. if your building a rail network there needs to be a hub.


I disagree. In places like america/europe it makes sense... but our "hubs" are really just stations with one extra platform... Come on... really :P there's not much to connect, and the places that do, are not centralised!

The Australian rail network does not have a single "central" type location. it -is- all distributed.

And you can only call it RADelaide, if we get to call it FUNbury.
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Postby lord voldemort on Tue Mar 04, 2008 11:14 am

Tieryn wrote:
lord voldemort wrote:
Tieryn wrote:You're just trying to get Adelaide on the map :P settle for a territory like the rest of us! Sheesh. You're gettin greedy Drew :P

:-$ i do still like the idea though even if it wasnt RADelaide
actually cairns can u call it RADelaide??
but yer i still like the hub idea. if your building a rail network there needs to be a hub.


I disagree. In places like america/europe it makes sense... but our "hubs" are really just stations with one extra platform... Come on... really :P there's not much to connect, and the places that do, are not centralised!

The Australian rail network does not have a single "central" type location. it -is- all distributed.

And you can only call it RADelaide, if we get to call it FUNbury.


cept albury isnt fun :roll: :P
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