[Official] Germany Revamp

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Re: [Official] Germany REVAMP - New Update 7/9 Pg. 10 [Gp]

Postby pepperonibread on Thu Jul 17, 2008 3:11 pm

iancanton wrote:the latest mix of colours is the most successful yet, with a nice equilibrium between top and bottom, left and right regarding saturated and paler territories.

the motto over the eagle is hard to read and i think it spoils the latter when put in that position.

kiel still looks like it's on an island with denmark rather than being part of the mainland. since the water between kiel and lübeck is a canal, how about making it look artificial? try drawing the canal straight (alternatively in two straight sections with a kink in the middle) and narrow with constant width, maybe with blue instead of black borders.

http://maps.nrcan.gc.ca/topo101/symbols_hydro_e.php

the ideal is to have kiel appear as part of the mainland, with the canal clearly impassable but not sticking out like a sore thumb.

ian. :)


I'd think making the canal straight might make it stick out more, as it would be different from all the other borders. I'll give it a try though. The rest of your comments sound good, I'll continue to experiment with that motto and coat of arms.

ZeakCytho wrote:
gimil wrote:Everything looks pretty sharp pep im impressed with your work (as usual). But I dont much like the mountains, there style is a little more Cartoon like that this map demands.


I don't really dislike the mountains as they are now, but I don't love them either. Experimenting with more styles could be good.


Ok, I'll try some filters and other stuff on them soon, I'd rather not change their basic look too much, but maybe I could tone down the cartoon aspect.

Sorry for the late response guys. I somehow managed to forget about my map yesterday... :D :roll:
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Re: [Official] Germany REVAMP - New Update July 3 Pgs. 1&9 [Gp]

Postby yeti_c on Thu Jul 17, 2008 3:34 pm

Click image to enlarge.
image


If you want to make Kiel look less than an island...

Then remove the river/canal from the lower connections - and just have it running down to the right and then fizzling out (as it does already)

C.
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Re: [Official] Germany REVAMP - New Update July 3 Pgs. 1&9 [Gp]

Postby pepperonibread on Thu Jul 17, 2008 4:31 pm

yeti_c wrote:
Click image to enlarge.
image


If you want to make Kiel look less than an island...

Then remove the river/canal from the lower connections - and just have it running down to the right and then fizzling out (as it does already)

C.


Wow, odd nobody thought of this... the current arrangement was used I believe because the nearly vertical part is a canal, while the rest is a river. This solution works fine though, I don't think anyone would object to erasing that part as it doesn't actually block any attacks.
Thanks yeti.
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Re: [Official] Germany REVAMP - New Update 7/10 Pg. 10 [Gp]

Postby MrBenn on Thu Jul 17, 2008 5:21 pm

gimil wrote:Everything looks pretty sharp pep im impressed with your work (as usual). But I dont much like the mountains, there style is a little more Cartoon like that this map demands.

Gimil just seems to have a thing about mountains at the moment ;-)
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Re: [Official] Germany REVAMP - New Update 7/10 Pg. 10 [Gp]

Postby hulmey on Fri Jul 18, 2008 8:15 am

Why has the game play been changed for this map?? I thought revamps werent allowed to change gameplay :?
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Re: [Official] Germany REVAMP - New Update 7/10 Pg. 10 [Gp]

Postby ZeakCytho on Fri Jul 18, 2008 8:27 am

hulmey wrote:Why has the game play been changed for this map?? I thought revamps werent allowed to change gameplay :?

It hasn't been.
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Re: [Official] Germany REVAMP - New Update 7/10 Pg. 10 [Gp]

Postby pepperonibread on Fri Jul 18, 2008 11:47 am

ZeakCytho wrote:
hulmey wrote:Why has the game play been changed for this map?? I thought revamps werent allowed to change gameplay :?

It hasn't been.


Zeak's right, it hasn't been. The names and shapes of territories may have changed, but the underlying gameplay remains the same. Take the continent Preussen for example (Prussia in the old map). The territory Magdeburg (in the new map) borders two territories in the continent below it, one in the continent to its left, and two in its own continent. This arrangement directly corresponds to the territory Potsdam (in the old map). For other examples, look at Gottingen in the new map and Hemeln in the old map, or Wurzburg in the new map and Bamberg in the old map. Each territory in the new map directly corresponds to one other territory in the old map. One exception is in the Baden-Wurttemberg continent on the new map, I forgot to add a few mountains on the border between Ulm and Karlsruhe, which are necessary to keep the gameplay the same. This will be fixed in the next update.
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Re: [Official] Germany REVAMP - New Update 7/10 Pg. 10 [Gp]

Postby ZeakCytho on Fri Jul 18, 2008 11:50 am

pepperonibread wrote:Zeak's right


\:D/

:mrgreen:

When do you think the next update will be ready?
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Re: [Official] Germany REVAMP - New Update 7/10 Pg. 10 [Gp]

Postby Androidz on Fri Jul 18, 2008 11:53 am

I Dont think the background fits the cartoon style your going for but i like the Revamp alot.
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Re: [Official] Germany REVAMP - New Update 7/10 Pg. 10 [Gp]

Postby pepperonibread on Fri Jul 18, 2008 12:10 pm

ZeakCytho wrote:
pepperonibread wrote:Zeak's right


\:D/

:mrgreen:

When do you think the next update will be ready?


:D This weekend should be basically free, I'll see if I can get something up in a day or two.
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Re: [Official] Germany REVAMP - New Update 7/10 Pg. 10 [Gp]

Postby pepperonibread on Fri Jul 18, 2008 12:19 pm

Androidz wrote:I Dont think the background fits the cartoon style your going for but i like the Revamp alot.


Cartoon style? First gimil calls my mountains cartooney, now it's the whole map! j/k, but could you explain why the map is cartooney, or better yet, what I could do to make the background fit better?
Glad you like the revamp :)
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Re: [Official] Germany REVAMP - New Update 7/10 Pg. 10 [Gp]

Postby Androidz on Fri Jul 18, 2008 12:22 pm

pepperonibread wrote:
Androidz wrote:I Dont think the background fits the cartoon style your going for but i like the Revamp alot.


Cartoon style? First gimil calls my mountains cartooney, now it's the whole map! j/k, but could you explain why the map is cartooney, or better yet, what I could do to make the background fit better?
Glad you like the revamp :)


Well a interfering with dark and light colours will sharpen this backround. a bit more lightblue sea, and a darker Land background. Well fitt perfect to the cool and healthy cartoonish lands of germany:D and i agrea to gimli that the montains is a bit diffrent type of cartoony:D
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Re: [Official] Germany REVAMP - New Update 7/10 Pg. 10 [Gp]

Postby ZeakCytho on Fri Jul 18, 2008 12:26 pm

Hmm...cartoonyness...I guess I see it. Not really, though. The map is bright and bold, which is a good thing. Lightening the sea is not something I would do, simply because I think doing so would make it seem more cartoony, not less. If anything, I would darken the sea, but really not by much. And I wouldn't darken the land, either, because I think it would make the whole map feel too dark if you did so.

On an unrelated note, it seems to me that the coast of the unplayable land around the Netherlands is not quite realistic. Could you make it follow the shape it actually does more closely?
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Re: [Official] Germany REVAMP - New Update 7/10 Pg. 10 [Gp]

Postby Androidz on Fri Jul 18, 2008 12:28 pm

ZeakCytho wrote:Hmm...cartoonyness...I guess I see it. Not really, though. The map is bright and bold, which is a good thing. Lightening the sea is not something I would do, simply because I think doing so would make it seem more cartoony, not less. If anything, I would darken the sea, but really not by much. And I wouldn't darken the land, either, because I think it would make the whole map feel too dark if you did so.

On an unrelated note, it seems to me that the coast of the unplayable land around the Netherlands is not quite realistic. Could you make it follow the shape it actually does more closely?


Hmm what about him makeing us a few maps with diffrent backrounds to vote for?? i feel its something missing in the background..i dont know what
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Re: [Official] Germany REVAMP - New Update 7/10 Pg. 10 [Gp]

Postby pepperonibread on Fri Jul 18, 2008 12:29 pm

Androidz wrote:
pepperonibread wrote:
Androidz wrote:I Dont think the background fits the cartoon style your going for but i like the Revamp alot.


Cartoon style? First gimil calls my mountains cartooney, now it's the whole map! j/k, but could you explain why the map is cartooney, or better yet, what I could do to make the background fit better?
Glad you like the revamp :)


Well a interfering with dark and light colours will sharpen this backround. a bit more lightblue sea, and a darker Land background. Well fitt perfect to the cool and healthy cartoonish lands of germany:D and i agrea to gimli that the montains is a bit diffrent type of cartoony:D


Ok, I'll see what I can do with this, I think someone said a long time ago that the background stood out to much, so I'll just have to be careful to not up the contrast too much.
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Re: [Official] Germany REVAMP - New Update 7/10 Pg. 10 [Gp]

Postby Androidz on Fri Jul 18, 2008 12:42 pm

pepperonibread wrote:
Androidz wrote:
pepperonibread wrote:
Androidz wrote:I Dont think the background fits the cartoon style your going for but i like the Revamp alot.


Cartoon style? First gimil calls my mountains cartooney, now it's the whole map! j/k, but could you explain why the map is cartooney, or better yet, what I could do to make the background fit better?
Glad you like the revamp :)


Well a interfering with dark and light colours will sharpen this backround. a bit more lightblue sea, and a darker Land background. Well fitt perfect to the cool and healthy cartoonish lands of germany:D and i agrea to gimli that the montains is a bit diffrent type of cartoony:D


Ok, I'll see what I can do with this, I think someone said a long time ago that the background stood out to much, so I'll just have to be careful to not up the contrast too much.


kk but i sure your greatness work something out:D
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Re: [Official] Germany REVAMP - New Update 7/10 Pg. 10 [Gp]

Postby MeDeFe on Wed Aug 06, 2008 9:42 am

I like the colours, and the idea of simply leaving out the canal between Kiel and Emden/Hamburg is good, but do you really have to call the northeastern continent "Preussen", isn't there a better name?
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Re: [Official] Germany REVAMP - New Update 7/10 Pg. 10 [Gp]

Postby pepperonibread on Wed Aug 06, 2008 11:24 am

MeDeFe wrote:I like the colours, and the idea of simply leaving out the canal between Kiel and Emden/Hamburg is good, but do you really have to call the northeastern continent "Preussen", isn't there a better name?


Any ideas? In the discussions about the continent names, no one could think of a better name to describe the area, but it's definitely still up for debate. The Preussen continent on the map is made up of the German states Mecklenburg-Vorpommern, Brandenburg, and Saxony-Anhalt.
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Re: [Official] Germany REVAMP - New Update 7/10 Pg. 10 [Gp]

Postby AndyDufresne on Wed Aug 06, 2008 9:45 pm

You could always try contacting some of our German members (do a scoreboard scan). I'm sure they'd love to help out. :)


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Re: [Official] Germany REVAMP - New Update July 3 Pgs. 1&9 [Gp]

Postby cairnswk on Thu Aug 07, 2008 4:37 pm

Click image to enlarge.
image


Pepperonibread....i've been assigned this map for Graphic stamping, and have gone back to page 10 to follow this thread.
This has your very distinctive style of course....there is only one thing i would suggest to modify....can you either move the motto from on top of emblem, or reduce the emblem as a background piece. To have the motto is great but having them both like that....they cancel each other out and neither stands out and is confusing to read the motto. This is the first line of the third stanza of the German National Athem - Das Deutschlandlied - afterall.

Can you also place the I (for Idea) in your official header please.
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Re: [Official] Germany REVAMP - New Update July 3 Pgs. 1&9 [Gp]

Postby pepperonibread on Thu Aug 07, 2008 4:54 pm

cairnswk wrote:
Click image to enlarge.
image


Pepperonibread....i've been assigned this map for Graphic stamping, and have gone back to page 10 to follow this thread.
This has your very distinctive style of course....there is only one thing i would suggest to modify....can you either move the motto from on top of emblem, or reduce the emblem as a background piece. To have the motto is great but having them both like that....they cancel each other out and neither stands out and is confusing to read the motto. This is the first line of the third stanza of the German National Athem - Das Deutschlandlied - afterall.

Can you also place the I (for Idea) in your official header please.


Thanks cairns... others have mentioned this as well, and I'm thinking I'll just remove the motto from the top of the arms. If possible, I'll see if I can add it somewhere else though. Expect to see this in the next update.
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Re: [Official] Germany REVAMP - New Update July 3 Pgs. 1&9 [Gp]

Postby cairnswk on Thu Aug 07, 2008 4:57 pm

pepperonibread wrote:...
Thanks cairns... others have mentioned this as well, and I'm thinking I'll just remove the motto from the top of the arms. If possible, I'll see if I can add it somewhere else though. Expect to see this in the next update.

Would it fit under the title if you moved all that area around a bit. That is really where it would be most appropriate if you were to keep it.
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Re: [Official] Germany REVAMP - New Update 7/10 Pg. 10 [I, Gp]

Postby anderswohin on Fri Aug 08, 2008 11:00 am

Hallo! This is a really nice looking map! I don't know how realistic you want it though. Even if it is better than the current one, there's still some obvious bugs in the territories. For one Berlin should be a dot within Potsdam that should be within Brandenberg. I know this is anal-rentetive but Berlin is tiny and so are Dresden and Leipszip.

If I may point out the "states" of Germany:
http://www.bgkev.de/en/images/deutschland_laender.gif

Of course there are only 16, but one could pick out 3-4 cities to make territories and this would in the end make a very nice playing map that is realistic. Again I don't want to offend anyone, but wehn I look at the names and the placements, I can't help but laugh a little and wonder how the other Germans playing find it, when for example the Berlin 1961 Map is actually dead-on target by contrast.

If the person making this map would appreciate any suggestions for territories etc, please feel free to contact me.
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Re: [Official] Germany REVAMP - New Update 7/10 Pg. 10 [I, Gp]

Postby anderswohin on Fri Aug 08, 2008 11:05 am

Stupid me - I meant Berlin should be a dot over Postdam which should be within Brandenberg.

Also - there is no Preußen since 1935 when the Nazis dismantled it, even so in including it, you would need to make it include the top portion of Poland as well. Maybe I take it too literally :-)
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Re: [Official] Germany REVAMP - New Update 7/10 Pg. 10 [I, Gp]

Postby pepperonibread on Fri Aug 08, 2008 2:46 pm

anderswohin wrote:Hallo! This is a really nice looking map! I don't know how realistic you want it though. Even if it is better than the current one, there's still some obvious bugs in the territories. For one Berlin should be a dot within Potsdam that should be within Brandenberg. I know this is anal-rentetive but Berlin is tiny and so are Dresden and Leipszip.

If I may point out the "states" of Germany:
http://www.bgkev.de/en/images/deutschland_laender.gif

Of course there are only 16, but one could pick out 3-4 cities to make territories and this would in the end make a very nice playing map that is realistic. Again I don't want to offend anyone, but wehn I look at the names and the placements, I can't help but laugh a little and wonder how the other Germans playing find it, when for example the Berlin 1961 Map is actually dead-on target by contrast.

If the person making this map would appreciate any suggestions for territories etc, please feel free to contact me.


anderswohin wrote:Stupid me - I meant Berlin should be a dot over Postdam which should be within Brandenberg.

Also - there is no Preußen since 1935 when the Nazis dismantled it, even so in including it, you would need to make it include the top portion of Poland as well. Maybe I take it too literally :-)


Thanks for the suggestions! :)
However, I'm not exactly sure how much of this I (the creator of this revamp) will actually be able to do. Unfortunately, I'm bound by the restrictions of a revamp, the most important one being that I am not allowed to change the gameplay of the map. This means all the territory borders and the continents they belong to must remain the same.

Take the red continent Prussia (Preussen in the new map). If you take a look at the two maps, you can see that each territory on the old map directly corresponds to one territory on the new map. For example, Potsdam on the old map, bordering three territories of other continents and two in its own, is equivalent to Magdeburg on the new map, which has the same border configuration. Dresden on the old map, which borders three territories in its own continent, corresponds to Potsdam on the new map, which also has these borders.

Though every territory has its equivalent on the opposite map, here are a few more examples to clarify:
Old map's Donrath = New map's Koblenz
Old map's Erfurt = New map's Zwickau
Old map's Augsburg = New map's Bayreuth
Old map's Niedersachsen = New map's Bremen
etc.

In this way, while names have been changed and border shapes have been altered, the gameplay of the map remains identical. So if I want to make the map more accurate, I have to make sure that there are no gameplay changes while I edit it. This I believe would rule out your Berlin suggestion, unless I'm picturing your idea all wrong... ;) So basically, I'm just saying if changes are to be made to the map, they must not affect the gameplay of the map.

As for your other questions/suggestions:
-You mention the states of Germany. For clarification, in this map the continent "Norddeutschland" consists of Niedersachsen and Schleswig-Holstein, "Preussen" consists of Mecklenburg-Vorpommern, Sachsen-Anhalt, and Brandenburg, "Rheinhessen" consists of Nordrhein-Westfalen, Hessen, Rheinland-Pflaz, and Saarland, "Sachsen-Thuringen" consists of Thuringen and Sachsen, and Baden-Wurttemberg and Bayern each contain only themselves. This is how they are current organized, though nothing is set in stone.
-As for the continent Preussen, no one so far has found a better name for this region short of calling it "Northeast Germany". Any suggestions on this are appreciated.

Anyway, thanks again for the comments. Hope I explained everything clear enough, and didn't confuse you too much :) It's always good to have any German natives help with the map's development.
Last edited by pepperonibread on Fri Aug 08, 2008 6:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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