[Official] Germany Revamp

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Re: [Official] Germany REVAMP - Images pg. 1

Postby pepperonibread on Sat Mar 29, 2008 11:02 am

mibi wrote:this map looks great and is a real improvement but I would like to see the black/red/gold reintroduced. The current Germany map sucks in terms of graphics but with such bold and present colors it was undeniably German. Aside from the type, there isn't a whole lot German about it.


Alright, sounds good. Because of the width change and the major border changes, basically this whole map is going to be redone. So I'll have a lot of time to add in some more german flavor.
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Re: [Official] Germany REVAMP - Images pg. 1

Postby pepperonibread on Sat Mar 29, 2008 6:43 pm

Alright guys, after doing some more research, here's the draft I came up with:

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Like it was suggested, the "continents" now all align with the state borders of Germany. But because the borders were changed so much (the shape of the borders only, no gameplay changes), I needed to change the names of some of the territories. This is what I'd like comments on (from Germans, if possible). I need as accurate names as possible. Once all this stuff is ironed out, I'll begin working on applying these changes to the "graphically enhanced" version.
Also, no umlauts yet, so don't mind that.
Last edited by pepperonibread on Sun Mar 30, 2008 5:58 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Postby Unit_2 on Sat Mar 29, 2008 7:08 pm

With a revamp you can only make differnt graphic changes not gameplay.
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Re: [Official] Germany REVAMP - Draft of New Borders Pg. 4

Postby Kaplowitz on Sat Mar 29, 2008 7:13 pm

It it plays the same way then its fine.
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Re:

Postby pepperonibread on Sat Mar 29, 2008 7:21 pm

Unit_2 wrote:With a revamp you can only make differnt graphic changes not gameplay.


Kaplowitz wrote:It it plays the same way then its fine.


Sorry guys, guess I didn't explain well enough. The shape of the borders has changed, but the gameplay is all the same. Just like my first draft and the original map. I'll edit my previous post.
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Postby iancanton on Sat Mar 29, 2008 9:00 pm

i've had time to have a quick look at baden-württemberg and rheinhessen and i think the following four changes are logical:

replace purple munchen by stuttgart (there are two munchens just now!);
replace pforzheim (town) by karlsruhe (city);
replace kassel (city) by dortmund (one of germany's largest cities);
replace fulda (town) by kassel (city).

do our german members agree?

i also notice that the east german river (blue impassable) still needs to be replaced by mountains (brown impassable).

ian. :)
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Re:

Postby pepperonibread on Sat Mar 29, 2008 9:57 pm

iancanton wrote:i've had time to have a quick look at baden-württemberg and rheinhessen and i think the following four changes are logical:

replace purple munchen by stuttgart (there are two munchens just now!);
replace pforzheim (town) by karlsruhe (city);
replace kassel (city) by dortmund (one of germany's largest cities);
replace fulda (town) by kassel (city).

do our german members agree?

i also notice that the east german river (blue impassable) still needs to be replaced by mountains (brown impassable).

ian. :)


Sounds good... I've no idea how that 2nd Munchen got there :)
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Re: [Official] Germany REVAMP - Draft of New Borders Pg. 4

Postby pepperonibread on Sun Mar 30, 2008 3:47 pm

Ok. I updated my earlier post with ian's suggestions. I'll post in the German forum and see if I can get some input from there.
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Re: [Official] Germany REVAMP - Draft of New Borders Pg. 4

Postby wicked on Sun Mar 30, 2008 5:08 pm

Are you kidding me??? The colors on that are horrid. Put down the crayons! Seriously, the coloring on the Germany map is great, I love it, don't f*ck it up with those absurd bright colors! Please no!

Also, the text looks horrible!! I don't even know where to start to suggest changes.

Ok, apparently there are two drafts? WTF? which one are you working on dude? It's impossible to comment!! Scrap whatever crap is on this page and go back to the other draft and let's comment on that, eh?
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Re: [Official] Germany REVAMP - Draft of New Borders Pg. 4

Postby pepperonibread on Sun Mar 30, 2008 5:27 pm

wicked wrote:Are you kidding me??? The colors on that are horrid. Put down the crayons! Seriously, the coloring on the Germany map is great, I love it, don't f*ck it up with those absurd bright colors! Please no!

Also, the text looks horrible!! I don't even know where to start to suggest changes.

Ok, apparently there are two drafts? WTF? which one are you working on dude? It's impossible to comment!! Scrap whatever crap is on this page and go back to the other draft and let's comment on that, eh?


Sorry about the confusion. I mostly need comments on accuracy right now, as our German members aren't satisfied with my original map (http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w108 ... ny000L.jpg). Because of the major changes, I put up a draft with more accurate borders, as I want to get the borders/country names down before redoing the good graphics version.
I'll clarify this on the 1st post :)
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Re: [Official] Germany REVAMP - Draft of New Borders Pg. 4

Postby gimil on Sun Mar 30, 2008 5:28 pm

Condeme thy with little faith in pep's abilities ;)
What do you know about map making, bitch?

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Re: [Official] Germany REVAMP - Draft of New Borders Pg. 4

Postby wicked on Sun Mar 30, 2008 5:34 pm

Oh so we shouldn't comment, rather just "trust" the mapmakers to make a good map? lol sure would be a quicker process. :roll:

Anyway, thanks for the clarification pepper. Probably best not the put "draft" on the map though, as someone just seeing the thread would think that's the real map, like I did. Maybe "THIS IS NOT THE REAL DRAFT" or something like that. I'll wait to comment on the real draft whenever you're done with the Germans. I still think the Disney colors on the real draft are a bit much.
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Re: [Official] Germany REVAMP - Draft of New Borders Pg. 4

Postby gimil on Sun Mar 30, 2008 5:43 pm

wicked wrote:Oh so we shouldn't comment, rather just "trust" the mapmakers to make a good map? lol sure would be a quicker process. :roll:


I don't believe I said that . . .
What do you know about map making, bitch?

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Re: [Official] Germany REVAMP - Draft of New Borders Pg. 4

Postby tenio on Mon Mar 31, 2008 8:27 pm

Can you explain why there are to copies of the map?

the one on the photobucket looks great, why do you have this one drawn in paint or something?
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Re: [Official] Germany REVAMP - Draft of New Borders Pg. 4

Postby pepperonibread on Mon Mar 31, 2008 8:42 pm

tenio wrote:Can you explain why there are to copies of the map?

the one on the photobucket looks great, why do you have this one drawn in paint or something?


I need to change the shape of the borders somewhat, so they will better reflect the borders of the actual german states. I'm getting feedback on that now. This won't affect the gameplay at all, but once these borders are decided on, I'll apply them to the better graphics version on photobucket :)
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Re: [Official] Germany REVAMP - Draft of New Borders Pg. 4

Postby tenio on Mon Mar 31, 2008 10:12 pm

okay, now i understand, :P
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Re: [Official] Germany REVAMP - Draft of New Borders Pg. 4

Postby Zlorfik on Sun Apr 06, 2008 12:07 am

Sounds (and looks) passable, however you've got work to do. Might I ask why is Prussia, a German region divided between Russia and Poland currently, marked as northern Germany? And why is 50% of Rhineland not even near the Rhine river?
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Re: [Official] Germany REVAMP - Draft of New Borders Pg. 4

Postby Arachnophobia on Sun Apr 06, 2008 1:19 pm

some suggestions:
The mountains in bavaria - replace them with river and try to put it a lil more north. That would be awesome for realism (and wouldnt change gameplay).
Visually extend Braunschweig til the river and shorten Bremen.
Rename Neubrandenburg to Vorpommern. Better name imo. Rename Schwerin to Mecklemburg

some things that would affect gameplay:
- add Magdeburg and Halle to prussia continent and Kiel and Hamburg to Niedersachsen-Anhalt. Add a bridge between Hamburg and Bremen. Rename Niedersachen-Anhalt to North Germany and Prussia to East Germany. Maybe you can put Hamburg ON the river and kill a bit of Bremen for that.
- Shorten Schwerin in the south. Extend Potsdam to were Schwerin was. Revamp the whole Potsdam Berlin to something like this: Berlin gets an autodeploy for 1 army and is surrounded by Brandenburg (old Potsdam) or by Potsdam in West and a new territory, Cottbus in east.
- kill the northeastern part of Erfurt for more territory of Leipzig (Halle-Leipzig are REALLY close to eachother in reality and that should be represented).
- to make East Germany less easily defended, shorten the river left of magdeburg to create a new frontier

Thats it for now, south and western germany come next when I got more time :p
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Re: [Official] Germany REVAMP - Draft of New Borders Pg. 4

Postby pepperonibread on Sun Apr 06, 2008 2:02 pm

Arachnophobia wrote:some suggestions:
The mountains in bavaria - replace them with river and try to put it a lil more north. That would be awesome for realism (and wouldnt change gameplay).
Visually extend Braunschweig til the river and shorten Bremen.
Rename Neubrandenburg to Vorpommern. Better name imo. Rename Schwerin to Mecklemburg

some things that would affect gameplay:
- add Magdeburg and Halle to prussia continent and Kiel and Hamburg to Niedersachsen-Anhalt. Add a bridge between Hamburg and Bremen. Rename Niedersachen-Anhalt to North Germany and Prussia to East Germany. Maybe you can put Hamburg ON the river and kill a bit of Bremen for that.
- Shorten Schwerin in the south. Extend Potsdam to were Schwerin was. Revamp the whole Potsdam Berlin to something like this: Berlin gets an autodeploy for 1 army and is surrounded by Brandenburg (old Potsdam) or by Potsdam in West and a new territory, Cottbus in east.
- kill the northeastern part of Erfurt for more territory of Leipzig (Halle-Leipzig are REALLY close to eachother in reality and that should be represented).
- to make East Germany less easily defended, shorten the river left of magdeburg to create a new frontier

Thats it for now, south and western germany come next when I got more time :p


Cool, thanks! I've been hoping for some good suggestions like this. I won't be able to do the gameplay changes because a revamp doesn't allow it, but everything else can be fixed :)
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Re: [Official] Germany REVAMP - DRAFT of New Borders Pg. 5

Postby pepperonibread on Sun Apr 06, 2008 6:58 pm

Alright, updated the image with Arachnophobia's changes:

Image

Also, just to clarify:

pepperonibread wrote:Like it was suggested, the "continents" now all align with the state borders of Germany. But because the borders were changed so much (the shape of the borders only, no gameplay changes), I needed to change the names of some of the territories. This is what I'd like comments on (from Germans, if possible). I need as accurate names as possible. Once all this stuff is ironed out, I'll begin working on applying these changes to the "graphically enhanced" version.
Also, no umlauts yet, so don't mind that.
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Re: [Official] Germany REVAMP - DRAFT of New Borders Pg. 5

Postby Splash_x on Sun Apr 06, 2008 7:52 pm

I don't know if its just me.. but the font for the title and the authors... are a bit werid... maybe put them elsewhere? or make it seem like its not going from BIGGER tooooooooooooo smaller
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Re: [Official] Germany REVAMP - DRAFT of New Borders Pg. 5

Postby pepperonibread on Sun Apr 06, 2008 9:04 pm

Splash_x wrote:I don't know if its just me.. but the font for the title and the authors... are a bit werid... maybe put them elsewhere? or make it seem like its not going from BIGGER tooooooooooooo smaller


Ok, I'll see what I can do. I'm gonna rework the map anyway after i get the borders set in stone, so I'll be moving some things around.
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Re: [Official] Germany REVAMP - DRAFT of New Borders Pg. 5

Postby Arachnophobia on Mon Apr 07, 2008 3:47 pm

second part of my comment :p

dont forget the river in bayern. Thats the danube, one of europes biggest rivers ;). The danube river exits germany right below of the passau text. Maybe you can rearrange the stuff so it looks like it :p
Kassel -> Frankfurt
Frankfurt -> Pfalz

extend the new pfalz a bit westwards, shorten the koblenz-region (as to create a border between Trier and the new Pfalz region) and put a mountain range between trier and Pfalz (doesnt affect gameplay that way ;). The mountain range should extend north-east-east to south-west-west (alternative if you include bridges, and have the rhine go all the way through germany, make it a river).

Try to make the new frankfurt region look less sausage like by cutting off a bit of Dortmund
http://www.wandkarten.cc/at/components/com_virtuemart/shop_image/product/230ecf0338278a579225c39418d3b5cf.jpg
Look at the position of the new frankfurt region and you should see a state. Try to make the Frankfurt region look a bit more like the southern part of that state. That would be awesome :)

I still really dislike the mountain range north of dresden. Here's a possible solution:
Use bridges to connect territories over rivers (that way you can also put in the rhine and danube river almost completely...). Extend the northern river along the prussia/Niedersachsen-Anhalt borderlines til you get to the mountain range. Extend it southern along the leipzig/dresden border til it exits the map :p. Replace the mountain range with a river that flows into the new long river.on the eastern most site, find a solution to make it not go into poland but also no connection between berlin and dresden.

names in bayern (bavaria):
Nuremberg -> Augsburg
Regensburg -> Nuremberg
Try to extend the new Nuremberg northwards into the Bayreuth region to actually include the city Nuremberg (that tail of bayreuth needs to go :p )

München -> Ulm
Ulm -> Tübingen
Rosenheim -> München, extend the new München region westwards. Extend the new Ulm region northwards.
Bayreuth -> Franken

The river that makes the border for Rheinhessen and Niedersachsen-Anhalt, make the part of it between Münster (change it from Munster :p ) and Göttingen, Osnabrück into a mountain range. Thats the "Teutoburger Wald :D). Extend the first border part river into Münster etc so you got the rhine (if you create bridges, you can extend it further to the south etc. Extend Düsseldorf to the river (no gameplay change) to create a shorter Münster and a place for the rhine river or so.

Thats it for now. Make a new scetch :D
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Re: [Official] Germany REVAMP - DRAFT of New Borders Pg. 5

Postby pepperonibread on Tue Apr 08, 2008 9:43 am

Hey Arachnophobia, most of your suggestions look great, though keep in mind I can't make any gameplay changes. But I'll be on vacation til around Sunday, so I won't be able to make your changes until after that.
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Re: [Official] Germany REVAMP - DRAFT of New Borders Pg. 5

Postby Arachnophobia on Tue Apr 08, 2008 1:56 pm

I made a quick edit for you to visualize my ideas :p

Image

PS: no gameplay changes, those grey arches are bridges that connect across water ;)
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