Conquer Club

okay, now i understand,

Sounds (and looks) passable, however you've got work to do. Might I ask why is Prussia, a German region divided between Russia and Poland currently, marked as northern Germany? And why is 50% of Rhineland not even near the Rhine river?

some suggestions:
The mountains in bavaria - replace them with river and try to put it a lil more north. That would be awesome for realism (and wouldnt change gameplay).
Visually extend Braunschweig til the river and shorten Bremen.
Rename Neubrandenburg to Vorpommern. Better name imo. Rename Schwerin to Mecklemburg

some things that would affect gameplay:
- add Magdeburg and Halle to prussia continent and Kiel and Hamburg to Niedersachsen-Anhalt. Add a bridge between Hamburg and Bremen. Rename Niedersachen-Anhalt to North Germany and Prussia to East Germany. Maybe you can put Hamburg ON the river and kill a bit of Bremen for that.
- Shorten Schwerin in the south. Extend Potsdam to were Schwerin was. Revamp the whole Potsdam Berlin to something like this: Berlin gets an autodeploy for 1 army and is surrounded by Brandenburg (old Potsdam) or by Potsdam in West and a new territory, Cottbus in east.
- kill the northeastern part of Erfurt for more territory of Leipzig (Halle-Leipzig are REALLY close to eachother in reality and that should be represented).
- to make East Germany less easily defended, shorten the river left of magdeburg to create a new frontier

Thats it for now, south and western germany come next when I got more time :p

Arachnophobia wrote:some suggestions:
The mountains in bavaria - replace them with river and try to put it a lil more north. That would be awesome for realism (and wouldnt change gameplay).
Visually extend Braunschweig til the river and shorten Bremen.
Rename Neubrandenburg to Vorpommern. Better name imo. Rename Schwerin to Mecklemburg

some things that would affect gameplay:
- add Magdeburg and Halle to prussia continent and Kiel and Hamburg to Niedersachsen-Anhalt. Add a bridge between Hamburg and Bremen. Rename Niedersachen-Anhalt to North Germany and Prussia to East Germany. Maybe you can put Hamburg ON the river and kill a bit of Bremen for that.
- Shorten Schwerin in the south. Extend Potsdam to were Schwerin was. Revamp the whole Potsdam Berlin to something like this: Berlin gets an autodeploy for 1 army and is surrounded by Brandenburg (old Potsdam) or by Potsdam in West and a new territory, Cottbus in east.
- kill the northeastern part of Erfurt for more territory of Leipzig (Halle-Leipzig are REALLY close to eachother in reality and that should be represented).
- to make East Germany less easily defended, shorten the river left of magdeburg to create a new frontier

Thats it for now, south and western germany come next when I got more time :p

Cool, thanks! I've been hoping for some good suggestions like this. I won't be able to do the gameplay changes because a revamp doesn't allow it, but everything else can be fixed

Alright, updated the image with Arachnophobia's changes:



Also, just to clarify:

pepperonibread wrote:Like it was suggested, the "continents" now all align with the state borders of Germany. But because the borders were changed so much (the shape of the borders only, no gameplay changes), I needed to change the names of some of the territories. This is what I'd like comments on (from Germans, if possible). I need as accurate names as possible. Once all this stuff is ironed out, I'll begin working on applying these changes to the "graphically enhanced" version.
Also, no umlauts yet, so don't mind that.

I don't know if its just me.. but the font for the title and the authors... are a bit werid... maybe put them elsewhere? or make it seem like its not going from BIGGER tooooooooooooo smaller

Splash_x wrote:I don't know if its just me.. but the font for the title and the authors... are a bit werid... maybe put them elsewhere? or make it seem like its not going from BIGGER tooooooooooooo smaller

Ok, I'll see what I can do. I'm gonna rework the map anyway after i get the borders set in stone, so I'll be moving some things around.

second part of my comment :p

dont forget the river in bayern. Thats the danube, one of europes biggest rivers . The danube river exits germany right below of the passau text. Maybe you can rearrange the stuff so it looks like it :p
Kassel -> Frankfurt
Frankfurt -> Pfalz

extend the new pfalz a bit westwards, shorten the koblenz-region (as to create a border between Trier and the new Pfalz region) and put a mountain range between trier and Pfalz (doesnt affect gameplay that way . The mountain range should extend north-east-east to south-west-west (alternative if you include bridges, and have the rhine go all the way through germany, make it a river).

Try to make the new frankfurt region look less sausage like by cutting off a bit of Dortmund
http://www.wandkarten.cc/at/components/com_virtuemart/shop_image/product/230ecf0338278a579225c39418d3b5cf.jpg
Look at the position of the new frankfurt region and you should see a state. Try to make the Frankfurt region look a bit more like the southern part of that state. That would be awesome

I still really dislike the mountain range north of dresden. Here's a possible solution:
Use bridges to connect territories over rivers (that way you can also put in the rhine and danube river almost completely...). Extend the northern river along the prussia/Niedersachsen-Anhalt borderlines til you get to the mountain range. Extend it southern along the leipzig/dresden border til it exits the map :p. Replace the mountain range with a river that flows into the new long river.on the eastern most site, find a solution to make it not go into poland but also no connection between berlin and dresden.

names in bayern (bavaria):
Nuremberg -> Augsburg
Regensburg -> Nuremberg
Try to extend the new Nuremberg northwards into the Bayreuth region to actually include the city Nuremberg (that tail of bayreuth needs to go :p )

München -> Ulm
Ulm -> Tübingen
Rosenheim -> München, extend the new München region westwards. Extend the new Ulm region northwards.
Bayreuth -> Franken

The river that makes the border for Rheinhessen and Niedersachsen-Anhalt, make the part of it between Münster (change it from Munster :p ) and Göttingen, Osnabrück into a mountain range. Thats the "Teutoburger Wald ). Extend the first border part river into Münster etc so you got the rhine (if you create bridges, you can extend it further to the south etc. Extend Düsseldorf to the river (no gameplay change) to create a shorter Münster and a place for the rhine river or so.

Thats it for now. Make a new scetch

Hey Arachnophobia, most of your suggestions look great, though keep in mind I can't make any gameplay changes. But I'll be on vacation til around Sunday, so I won't be able to make your changes until after that.

I made a quick edit for you to visualize my ideas :p



PS: no gameplay changes, those grey arches are bridges that connect across water

3 comments to add to the above map.
Missing bridges:
Mechlemburg <-> Halle
Köln <-> Koblenz
Missing Connection:
Passau <-> Landshut

As far as I can see, these are the only issues.

Ogrecrusher wrote:3 comments to add to the above map.
Missing bridges:
Mechlemburg <-> Halle
Köln <-> Koblenz
Missing Connection:
Passau <-> Landshut

As far as I can see, these are the only issues.

Updated the image. Added the missing bridges and changed the territories in bavaria again (also made the danube river more realisticly in place while I was at it :p
I also renamed the Landshut region to Regensburg, the old Regensburg to Bayreuth and the old Bayreuth to Coburg, as Landshut is actually south of the danube river. Also corrected some names (Dusseldorf -> Düsseldorf, Nurnberg -> Nürnberg) and renamed Mecklenburg and Vorpommern again to fit into the city theme of all other regions (renamed Mecklenburg to Schwerin and Vorpommern to Rostock, also changed the borders a bit so that Rostock is included into that region (just because Rostock is probably the biggest city around there with lots of history and a first lvl football club :p, needed to include that one). Last change was renaming Koblenz to Siegen as Koblenz is on the western shore of the rhine river so it didnt quite match it.

Something to change in official map: move the rhine river more westwards through the Rheinhessen region to make it more realistic

Nice work! Let's see what the graphics master can do with that!

i like the map, but im not too keen on the pictures in the conts. i like the pics outside them, but just find it confusing and distracting where they ar in the conts

--tom

Before change (numbered the countries of Niedersachsen-Anhalt)


After change


I corrected the continents "Niedersachsen-Anhalt" and "Preussen" so that they resemble more of a historic and cultural unity. Niedersachsen-Anhalt -> Norddeutschland and Preussen could stay that name. As you can look up with the numbering of the green territories, there are no gameplay changes . I had to introduce a new river though, the "Weser", which should have been included anyways (like 4th longest river in germany...). I also added a new territory "Rügen", which was not previously on the map. Its germany's biggest island and only a lil offshore from the rostock territory. Ofc the territories are rather scetchy and unnamed yet, they definately need to be reshaped a bit better and get some good names, but I dont want to do that with this scetch yet. Need opinions first ^^

Yes! thank you, I hate the old graphics

another idea: the river between Dresden and Potsdam and Berlin could be replaced by a swamp, which is more realistic (there's no big river at that place...). This can also be done by extending dresden northwards where one can find the "Spreewald", a big swamp in Brandenburg. Awesome for realisim, it would also add some more space for the tiny territories in sachsen-thüringen

Arachnophobia wrote:After change


I corrected the continents "Niedersachsen-Anhalt" and "Preussen" so that they resemble more of a historic and cultural unity. Niedersachsen-Anhalt -> Norddeutschland and Preussen could stay that name. As you can look up with the numbering of the green territories, there are no gameplay changes . I had to introduce a new river though, the "Weser", which should have been included anyways (like 4th longest river in germany...). I also added a new territory "Rügen", which was not previously on the map. Its germany's biggest island and only a lil offshore from the rostock territory. Ofc the territories are rather scetchy and unnamed yet, they definately need to be reshaped a bit better and get some good names, but I dont want to do that with this scetch yet. Need opinions first ^^

The one thing I might be hesistant to do is make that river through Rheinhessen. Normally on maps, rivers and mountains and other impassables are used to create better gameplay (and in this case preserve it). As CC maps are rarely perfectly accurate, I think the middle section with bridges could be cut out without to much trouble. I just have a feeling that with bridges spanning across every section of the river, it will only clutter the map and leave less room for names/army numbers. Same could go for the northeastern river (will mountains not work there?), but I'll need more comments on that.
Also, like you said, I'll need to get more comments on the "Norddeutschland" name and shape change before I can go ahead.
Besides that, looks great! Sorry for the late response. Thanks for taking an interest in the map

EDIT: I see you also mentioned a swamp. That could work, depending on how good I am at drawing swamps

pepperonibread wrote:The one thing I might be hesistant to do is make that river through Rheinhessen. Normally on maps, rivers and mountains and other impassables are used to create better gameplay (and in this case preserve it). As CC maps are rarely perfectly accurate, I think the middle section with bridges could be cut out without to much trouble. I just have a feeling that with bridges spanning across every section of the river, it will only clutter the map and leave less room for names/army numbers. Same could go for the northeastern river (will mountains not work there?), but I'll need more comments on that.
Also, like you said, I'll need to get more comments on the "Norddeutschland" name and shape change before I can go ahead.
Besides that, looks great! Sorry for the late response. Thanks for taking an interest in the map

EDIT: I see you also mentioned a swamp. That could work, depending on how good I am at drawing swamps

Well it greatly depends how the bridges look, and space for name/army numbers should be enough on the rheinhessen countries if you compare to the sachsen countries :p.
Anyways, maybe you can do it differently:
Adding a lot of really small rivers that are passable and which dont necessarily border (like on normal geographic maps) and adding a special, "wide" river space which is marked as impassable in the legend. That way no bridges would be necessary (thus creating less clutter), the rivers would take a backseat on the map (as in part of the background image or so) and realism would be saved (which wouldnt happen if you cut the rivers in pieces which imo wouldnt look too good).

between dresden and berlin, a swamp is much better than a river, especially as there is a well-known river system running all the way along the eastern border of germany from the czech republic to the baltic sea, the famous oder-neisse line that stalin imposed as the border with poland. the neisse does not join up with any river in sachsen. although gameplay doesn't demand it, perhaps the oder-neisse line can be shown as a visual marker.

iancanton wrote:below is a link to the preussens gloria website, which has a map of these two rivers, that together form the border between germany and poland.

http://www.nccg.org/preussen/preussen8.html

ian.

there are some low hills between dresden and berlin so, in the absence of a swamp symbol, a brown impassable is more appropriate than a blue one for the time being.

the new schwerin boundaries don't work, since berlin needs to border three territories.

münchen is now in a better place than before. ulm is in baden-württemberg, not bayern (the thick blue line on the map below shows the boundary), so augsburg is a more suitable name than ulm for the territory in south-west bayern, with tübingen perhaps being replaced by ulm (i think ulm is more famous, but is tübingen more important? i'm unsure about this).

http://www.welt-atlas.de/map_of_schwaebische_alb_1-667

ian.

iancanton wrote:between dresden and berlin, a swamp is much better than a river, especially as there is a well-known river system running all the way along the eastern border of germany from the czech republic to the baltic sea, the famous oder-neisse line that stalin imposed as the border with poland. the neisse does not join up with any river in sachsen. although gameplay doesn't demand it, perhaps the oder-neisse line can be shown as a visual marker.

iancanton wrote:below is a link to the preussens gloria website, which has a map of these two rivers, that together form the border between germany and poland.

http://www.nccg.org/preussen/preussen8.html

ian.

there are some low hills between dresden and berlin so, in the absence of a swamp symbol, a brown impassable is more appropriate than a blue one for the time being.

the new schwerin boundaries don't work, since berlin needs to border three territories.

münchen is now in a better place than before. ulm is in baden-württemberg, not bayern (the thick blue line on the map below shows the boundary), so augsburg is a more suitable name than ulm for the territory in south-west bayern, with tübingen perhaps being replaced by ulm (i think ulm is more famous, but is tübingen more important? i'm unsure about this).

http://www.welt-atlas.de/map_of_schwaebische_alb_1-667

ian.

Looks good. Any comments on Niedersachsen-Anhalt (now "Norddeutschland")? The "continents" would know longer align with the german state borders, though it looks like it could be more accurate than before.

iancanton wrote:there are some low hills between dresden and berlin so, in the absence of a swamp symbol, a brown impassable is more appropriate than a blue one for the time being.

Not really, 200m high hills are a really weak argument for a boundary

the new schwerin boundaries don't work, since berlin needs to border three territories.

I dont quite understand that one. I'll explain what happened:
The new "Rügen" territory is the former Kiel. The Rostock territory is the former Hamburg. The Berlin territory is the former Rostock, Potsdam was the former Berlin and the former Potsdam is the new territory combined from former Halle and Magdeburg. If you compare, no border changes were made

münchen is now in a better place than before. ulm is in baden-württemberg, not bayern (the thick blue line on the map below shows the boundary), so augsburg is a more suitable name than ulm for the territory in south-west bayern, with tübingen perhaps being replaced by ulm (i think ulm is more famous, but is tübingen more important? i'm unsure about this).

You're right about this one, its remains of a former map change I made when I put nuremberg eastwards and needed Augsburg for the nuremburg territory. So I used Ulm for that territory and Tübingen for the other territory... This doesnt apply anymore so it can be changed


Here's names for the new territories in Norddeutschland:
N1 - Emden
N2 - Oldenburg
N3 - Bremen
N4 - Hamburg - Would need to move a wee bit north-westwards to really match. There's no notable other city in this place...
N5 - Osnabrück
N6 - Göttingen
N7 - Hannover
N8 - Braunschweig
N9 - Kiel

Looks good. Any comments on Niedersachsen-Anhalt (now "Norddeutschland")? The "continents" would know longer align with the german state borders, though it looks like it could be more accurate than before.

Actually, they still do, but now in a better cultural unity

I have another idea:
Extend Leipzig til the new Magdeburg area (unnamed on the map), and put a river between them. That way you dont have that weird octopus like erfurt territory anymore and Leipzig would actually be in place (and creating more room in the Sachsen-territories for names and army numbers

Arachnophobia wrote:

Looks good. Any comments on Niedersachsen-Anhalt (now "Norddeutschland")? The "continents" would know longer align with the german state borders, though it looks like it could be more accurate than before.

Actually, they still do, but now in a better cultural unity

Wow... didn't notice that. Shows what I know
I'll try out the other comments ASAP, though school may get in the way this week.

any updates on this one?

Pep whats the latest mate?