[Official] Germany Revamp

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Re: [Official] Germany REVAMP - New DRAFT of Borders Pg. 6

Postby gimil on Mon May 05, 2008 10:17 pm

When are the super cool, shit hot graphics coming back into action?
What do you know about map making, bitch?

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Re: [Official] Germany REVAMP - New DRAFT of Borders Pg. 6

Postby Ruben Cassar on Tue May 06, 2008 4:31 am

pepperonibread wrote:
Ruben Cassar wrote:Nice to see this map getting a revamp. It badly needed one.

1. The images of the coat of arms for every region is a nice idea but it just doesn't work. It makes the regions less clear.
2. The various angles used for the territory names give the map an untidy look. Can you make the territory names smaller and all horizontal? Personally I don't like the font used either.
3. The eagle background used in the legend makes it less legible. The Östereich name just showing underneath it makes it look disorderly as well. The map is already busy enough.
4. The map seems unnecessarily wide. There's a lot of unused space currently occupied by neighbouring states which could be eliminated.
5. I suggest sticking to German names like Bayern instead of Bavaria and München instead of Munich.

Keep up the good work guys. Looking forward to the next update.


1. I'll need more comments on this, as many posted about liking the coats of arms in previous pages (though many did the opposite). I'll tone them somewhat in the next update, but this may be similar to the debate about flags in the Great Lakes thread prior to quench; split about 50-50. In that case, I'll try to compromise as best I can.
2. I personally like the angles, but one thing that maybe could help is to curve some of the names slightly. I'll see what others think about this.
3. You can see Östereich through that? :) Anyway, the legend will definitely be moved and resized considerably when I rework the map; I'll keep this in mind when I do.
4. Agreed, this has been brought up by others as well, when I rework the high-graphics version I'll certainly be rearranging some things to better fit.
5. Fixed in the current draft, I'll be sure to have this in the final version.

Thanks :)


I suggest you run two separate polls for #1 and #2. It's the only way to gauge what people like. But really all those different angles are not good! :)

About the legend...I just want it to be more legible and the eagle seems to make it less so. I just got the feeling you are overdoing it a bit with all the background images and stuff.

Good luck!
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Re: [Official] Germany REVAMP - New DRAFT of Borders Pg. 6

Postby pepperonibread on Tue May 06, 2008 5:54 am

gimil wrote:When are the super cool, shit hot graphics coming back into action?


Never, I've decided... I've grown to love this paint-esque style.
Expect to see it in my future maps.
(To thread newcomers: Joking of course :) )
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Re: [Official] Germany REVAMP - DRAFT of New Borders Pg. 5

Postby Arachnophobia on Tue May 06, 2008 5:15 pm

pepperonibread wrote:-River through Rheinhessen: I think I've fixed this by extending Heilbronn across the entire northern border of Baden Wurttemburg. I call this a fix because I think it clears up the map, without the river and bridges. As for the small part of this river that formed the northern border of Dusseldorf, I think simply extend the adjacent mountain range slightly won't be too bad for the map's accuracy.

Its ok that way, although I dont like the look of the Siegen territory :p
pepperonibread wrote:-The territory Siegen: This city and the city of Kolbenz have virtually equal populations, so it's up to our German CCer's which should be used as the territory name (which one is more well known?)

Both are about the same level of reputation I would say, maybe someone from the region can decide this (im from berlin...)
pepperonibread wrote:-I took Arachnophobia's changes to the Norddeutschland continent, and changed a few things so fewer rivers are needed. Specifically, I added the Kiel Canal to allow for two territories above the now-shortened Elbe river. I then adjusted the other territories accordingly, so gameplay was not changed.

Euhg, that arrow country solution is awful :p (and the name of it is even more awful as Cuxhafen is a city at the ocean :p )
What we could do is:
Hamburg -> Lübeck
Cuxhaven -> Hamburg
That way its more realistic :p

pepperonibread wrote:-To Arachnophobia specifically: What was the rationale for adding Coburg to the Bayern continent? From the research I've done, it seems like a smaller city than Landshut and the other territories. I kept these territories the same until this and the deal with Ulm is resolved.

Landshut is south of the river we added (quite a lot at that), so having it north of it wasnt realistic. Thatswhy I moved the territories around a bit to find a viable solution :p
Also the Regensburg territory needs to be at the river, as the city of regensburg lies at the river...).

pepperonibread wrote:-I'm not sure what the verdict was on the impassable between Preussen and Sachsen-Thuringen, so I kept that as a mountain/swamp for the time being.

Swamp sounds fine ;)

pepperonibread wrote:-Because I still dislike the tight territories and rivers with many bridges it the continent Norddeutschland, (...)
Admittedly, the second one has not existed for a long time, but could this still work as a sort of cultural unity? Any German natives who could comment on this part would be great.
[/quote][/quote]

Most of the current names for the states are somewhat arbitrary, but the saxony-anhalt territory was a former part of the german democratic republic, while lower saxony was part of the federal german republic. As I understand it, we're making a map of modern germany so the new continents represent the cultural and historical bounds more precisely...


One corrections:
Rostok -> Rostock
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Re: [Official] Germany REVAMP - DRAFT of New Borders Pg. 5

Postby pepperonibread on Wed May 07, 2008 3:32 pm

pepperonibread wrote:-River through Rheinhessen: I think I've fixed this by extending Heilbronn across the entire northern border of Baden Wurttemburg. I call this a fix because I think it clears up the map, without the river and bridges. As for the small part of this river that formed the northern border of Dusseldorf, I think simply extend the adjacent mountain range slightly won't be too bad for the map's accuracy.

Its ok that way, although I dont like the look of the Siegen territory :p

Cool, thanks.
pepperonibread wrote:-The territory Siegen: This city and the city of Kolbenz have virtually equal populations, so it's up to our German CCer's which should be used as the territory name (which one is more well known?)

Both are about the same level of reputation I would say, maybe someone from the region can decide this (im from berlin...)

Ok.
pepperonibread wrote:-I took Arachnophobia's changes to the Norddeutschland continent, and changed a few things so fewer rivers are needed. Specifically, I added the Kiel Canal to allow for two territories above the now-shortened Elbe river. I then adjusted the other territories accordingly, so gameplay was not changed.

Euhg, that arrow country solution is awful :p (and the name of it is even more awful as Cuxhafen is a city at the ocean :p )
What we could do is:
Hamburg -> Lübeck
Cuxhaven -> Hamburg
That way its more realistic :p

Alright, I'll fix these. Also, the arrow won't be permanent, there'll be more room in the real version :)
pepperonibread wrote:-To Arachnophobia specifically: What was the rationale for adding Coburg to the Bayern continent? From the research I've done, it seems like a smaller city than Landshut and the other territories. I kept these territories the same until this and the deal with Ulm is resolved.

Landshut is south of the river we added (quite a lot at that), so having it north of it wasnt realistic. Thatswhy I moved the territories around a bit to find a viable solution :p
Also the Regensburg territory needs to be at the river, as the city of regensburg lies at the river...).

Ok, sounds good.
pepperonibread wrote:-I'm not sure what the verdict was on the impassable between Preussen and Sachsen-Thuringen, so I kept that as a mountain/swamp for the time being.

Swamp sounds fine ;)

Cool.
pepperonibread wrote:-Because I still dislike the tight territories and rivers with many bridges it the continent Norddeutschland, (...)
Admittedly, the second one has not existed for a long time, but could this still work as a sort of cultural unity? Any German natives who could comment on this part would be great.


Most of the current names for the states are somewhat arbitrary, but the saxony-anhalt territory was a former part of the german democratic republic, while lower saxony was part of the federal german republic. As I understand it, we're making a map of modern germany so the new continents represent the cultural and historical bounds more precisely...


One corrections:
Rostok -> Rostock

Alright, thanks.
Thanks for the comments :)
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Re: [Official] Germany REVAMP - New DRAFT of Borders Pgs. 1&6

Postby pepperonibread on Fri May 09, 2008 4:40 pm

New Update:

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For clarification:
pepperonibread wrote:Like it was suggested, the "continents" now all align with the state borders of Germany. But because the borders were changed so much (the shape of the borders only, no gameplay changes), I needed to change the names of some of the territories. This is what I'd like comments on (from Germans, if possible). I need as accurate names as possible. Once all this stuff is ironed out, I'll begin working on applying these changes to the "graphically enhanced" version.
Also, no umlauts yet, so don't mind that.

Changes:
-Territory names: Hamburg is now Lubeck, Cuxhaven is now Hamburg, Bayreuth is now Coburg, Regensburg is now Bayreuth, Landshut is now Regensburg.
-Rostock is correctly spelled (was Rostok).

A really small update, mostly a bump to be honest. I'll see if I can get any more Germans to comment on this before I begin working with the graphics.
Hope y'all like it :D
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Re: [Official] Germany REVAMP - New DRAFT of Borders Pgs. 1&7

Postby Lone.prophet on Mon May 12, 2008 8:55 am

i think the flags of the regions look kinda a shitty i think they dont really look nice in there
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Re: [Official] Germany REVAMP - New DRAFT of Borders Pgs. 1&7

Postby pepperonibread on Mon May 12, 2008 2:59 pm

Lone.prophet wrote:i think the flags of the regions look kinda a shitty i think they dont really look nice in there


Ok, this will probably come down to a vote anyway after I rework the map to the new borders. Expect a compromise (lower opacity flags) or something similar.
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Re: [Official] Germany REVAMP - New DRAFT of Borders Pgs. 1&7

Postby iancanton on Wed May 14, 2008 3:06 am

pepperonibread wrote:The territory Siegen: This city and the city of Kolbenz have virtually equal populations, so it's up to our German CCer's which should be used as the territory name (which one is more well known?)

although i'm not german, my cousin lives in koblenz. very nice city it is too. my vote goes firmly to koblenz. according to wikipedia, siegen used to be part of koblenz region, so koblenz has history on its side. koblenz is a third-level administrative division (under country and state), while siegen is fourth-level (beneath country, state and region).

Siegen was assigned to the Siegen district, first in the Koblenz region, and as of 1817 in the Arnsberg region within the Prussian Province of Westphalia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siegen

if u're looking for a city that is between frankfurt and münster, then i think dortmund fits better than kassel. it is also a much bigger city and more famous to industrialists and football (soccer) fans. i don't object strongly to kassel, but simply favour dortmund slightly.

pfalz looks out of place: all other territories are cities, but pfalz (palatinate) is not. one good name for that territory is mainz, the capital city of rheinland-pfalz state. another, especially for football fans, is kaiserslautern.

to make the long, narrow territories in norddeutschland less of a problem, would anyone mind if germany was stretched horizontally into a squarer shape (like a wide-screen monitor does to photographs)? is this easy to do? would the result look good?

i'm happy with the old arrangement of territories if the new one makes it difficult to position names and army circles in norddeutschland.

keep up the good work!

ian. :)
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Re: [Official] Germany REVAMP - New DRAFT of Borders Pgs. 1&7

Postby pepperonibread on Wed May 14, 2008 5:58 am

iancanton wrote:
pepperonibread wrote:The territory Siegen: This city and the city of Kolbenz have virtually equal populations, so it's up to our German CCer's which should be used as the territory name (which one is more well known?)

although i'm not german, my cousin lives in koblenz. very nice city it is too. my vote goes firmly to koblenz. according to wikipedia, siegen used to be part of koblenz region, so koblenz has history on its side. koblenz is a third-level administrative division (under country and state), while siegen is fourth-level (beneath country, state and region).

Siegen was assigned to the Siegen district, first in the Koblenz region, and as of 1817 in the Arnsberg region within the Prussian Province of Westphalia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siegen

if u're looking for a city that is between frankfurt and münster, then i think dortmund fits better than kassel. it is also a much bigger city and more famous to industrialists and football (soccer) fans. i don't object strongly to kassel, but simply favour dortmund slightly.

pfalz looks out of place: all other territories are cities, but pfalz (palatinate) is not. one good name for that territory is mainz, the capital city of rheinland-pfalz state. another, especially for football fans, is kaiserslautern.

to make the long, narrow territories in norddeutschland less of a problem, would anyone mind if germany was stretched horizontally into a squarer shape (like a wide-screen monitor does to photographs)? is this easy to do? would the result look good?

i'm happy with the old arrangement of territories if the new one makes it difficult to position names and army circles in norddeutschland.

keep up the good work!

ian. :)


Okay, Koblenz sounds good. And if some evidence comes against this in the future, it can still easily be changed. Same with Kassel to Dortmund.
Mainz would work good for Pflaz.
As for Norddeutschland, beside what you said, I'll also slightly expand this continent into preussen, nothing noticeable, just to make the territories a little larger. Anyway, if you look at the better-graphics map, you can see that I already expanded Germany a bit.
Thanks!
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Re: [Official] Germany REVAMP - New DRAFT of Borders Pgs. 1&7

Postby daydream on Wed May 14, 2008 6:07 am

i would also go with koblenz. it seems all the umlauts have disappeared... are you aware that they are missing and will add them back in? do you know where, or should i write you a list?
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Re: [Official] Germany REVAMP - New DRAFT of Borders Pgs. 1&7

Postby pepperonibread on Wed May 14, 2008 6:47 am

daydream wrote:i would also go with koblenz. it seems all the umlauts have disappeared... are you aware that they are missing and will add them back in? do you know where, or should i write you a list?


It's fine, someone made a list a few pages back. I wanted to get the draft on this page up quick, so I didn't add them. You can be sure that they'll be in the final version.
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Re: [Official] Germany REVAMP - New DRAFT of Borders Pgs. 1&7

Postby multiplayertim on Mon May 19, 2008 8:19 am

what the deuce it says image has been moved or deleted
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Re: [Official] Germany REVAMP - New DRAFT of Borders Pgs. 1&7

Postby pepperonibread on Mon May 19, 2008 2:51 pm

Which one? They all seem to work fine for me :-s
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Re: [Official] Germany REVAMP - New DRAFT of Borders Pgs. 1&7

Postby gimil on Mon May 19, 2008 9:01 pm

*yawns*

*waits for super cool graphics*
What do you know about map making, bitch?

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Re: [Official] Germany REVAMP - New DRAFT of Borders Pgs. 1&7

Postby pepperonibread on Wed May 21, 2008 7:59 pm

Just a progress report here. Since it looks like most of the borders have been settled on, I'll begin working on the better graphics version. This'll take a while most likely, as I'll have to remake almost all of the map. Should speed up though after school gets out in a few weeks.
Patience, gimil :D
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Re: [Official] Germany REVAMP - New DRAFT of Borders Pgs. 1&7

Postby gimil on Thu May 22, 2008 7:38 am

*humph*
What do you know about map making, bitch?

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Re: [Official] Germany REVAMP - New DRAFT of Borders Pgs. 1&7

Postby pepperonibread on Sun Jun 22, 2008 2:35 pm

Hey guys. Finally got a new update here, it's been long enough :D :

Large:
Image

Large w/ #'s:
Image

Ok, I basically redid the whole map from scratch, though it still looks pretty similar. Here's a list of all the changes:
-Shrunk map's width from 800 to 685 pixels.
-Made all the name/border changes needed to make the map more accurate (gameplay remains the same).
-Because of mibi's suggestion to reintroduce the German black, red, and gold, I recolored the continents as shown.
-Due to the color change, I replaced the legend with a mini-map, as some continents have similar colors. The continent names can still be seen around the map, as I thought they should still be viewable somewhere.
-Lowered the opacity or visibility of the coats of arms on the continents. This is still up for debate.
-With the island Rugen and the new river arrangement, I added some bridges.
-Names of countries in the dead land (Polen, Frankreich, Niederlande) crowded the map too much, so they were removed.
-All the borders are now more detailed, because I think it looks cooler.
-Some of the territory names were more tilted than they needed to be, I tried to lessen this in the new map.
-I made the background "pop" a little less.

To do:
-I'm not sure how much I like the new mini-map; I'd like some comments on this.
-I changed all the names to German and added umlauts, but I'm sure I missed at least one. Anyone see one I forgot?
-Do you guys like the bridges? Any comments on these are welcome.
-Any comments/suggestions on the continent names around the map?
Last edited by pepperonibread on Sat Jul 12, 2008 12:08 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: [Official] Germany REVAMP - New DRAFT of Borders Pgs. 1&7

Postby gimil on Sun Jun 22, 2008 2:38 pm

Beautiful =D>

Ill get a run down on this one probably tomorrow. It'll give me something to look forward to.
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Re: [Official] Germany REVAMP - New DRAFT of Borders Pgs. 1&7

Postby ZeakCytho on Sun Jun 22, 2008 2:42 pm

Excuse me while I drool for a little while.

I think the only thing I don't like are the mountains. I like the style, just, some of them are at really wacky angles. Mostly the ones with two peaks on the same "triangle." Also, the continent names being at crazy angles is a bit distracting. Is there any way to fit them in straight, or at less of an angle than...almost vertical, like Rheinhessen and Preussen are?
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Re: [Official] Germany REVAMP - Back on Track/New Update Pg. 1&8

Postby edbeard on Sun Jun 22, 2008 2:56 pm

any chance of you 'stealing' fudowhatever's concept of having the colours of the continents match the flag of the country? (mexico map).

what I mean is you have all the colours, but you have them somewhat randomly in there. Instead you could have black at the top two regions, red in the middle and yellow on the bottom

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Re: [Official] Germany REVAMP - New DRAFT of Borders Pgs. 1&7

Postby pepperonibread on Sun Jun 22, 2008 5:00 pm

gimil wrote:Beautiful =D>

Ill get a run down on this one probably tomorrow. It'll give me something to look forward to.


k, thanks gimil :)

ZeakCytho wrote:Excuse me while I drool for a little while.

I think the only thing I don't like are the mountains. I like the style, just, some of them are at really wacky angles. Mostly the ones with two peaks on the same "triangle." Also, the continent names being at crazy angles is a bit distracting. Is there any way to fit them in straight, or at less of an angle than...almost vertical, like Rheinhessen and Preussen are?


For the mountains, would "dulling" down the peaks help at all? I personally like them, but I'll see what I can do.
As for the continent names, I'm a little confused about what you mean. Are you saying you like Preussen and Rheinhessen, or you don't like them?

edbeard wrote:any chance of you 'stealing' fudowhatever's concept of having the colours of the continents match the flag of the country? (mexico map).

what I mean is you have all the colours, but you have them somewhat randomly in there. Instead you could have black at the top two regions, red in the middle and yellow on the bottom


Sounds good. I'll try this out and see how it looks.
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Re: [Official] Germany REVAMP - New DRAFT of Borders Pgs. 1&7

Postby ZeakCytho on Sun Jun 22, 2008 5:05 pm

pepperonibread wrote:
ZeakCytho wrote:Excuse me while I drool for a little while.

I think the only thing I don't like are the mountains. I like the style, just, some of them are at really wacky angles. Mostly the ones with two peaks on the same "triangle." Also, the continent names being at crazy angles is a bit distracting. Is there any way to fit them in straight, or at less of an angle than...almost vertical, like Rheinhessen and Preussen are?


For the mountains, would "dulling" down the peaks help at all? I personally like them, but I'll see what I can do.
As for the continent names, I'm a little confused about what you mean. Are you saying you like Preussen and Rheinhessen, or you don't like them?


I don't like them. I'd prefer them to be more horizontal, if you have room to do that. Alternatively, you could make them smaller and put them in the minimap instead of on the big map. Or something like that.
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Re: [Official] Germany REVAMP - Back on Track/New Update Pg. 1&8

Postby AndyDufresne on Sun Jun 22, 2008 6:35 pm

I was just thinking about this earlier today...glad to see an update! I'll take a look soon.


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Re: [Official] Germany REVAMP - Back on Track/New Update Pg. 1&8

Postby cairnswk on Mon Jun 23, 2008 12:24 am

i'd like to see the map with a randomization of the 88 digit armies all over it as it would appear in the start of a game...not just the yellow....and the small version as i fear that some of those areas will be very difficult to read on the small version, with that font.
and i agree with the mountains...IMHO they look too "Andy Cap style" and i have to be questioning the "snow on matterhorns" appearance in the middle of Germany...down near Swisse and Austria I could understand....but middle Germany (and yes i know that it snows in Germany) wouldn't they be more like rolling large mountains/hills rather than "Matterhorn peaks" :)
also...is that the Danube in there...what about the Rhine?
EDIT**
Pepperonibread...i forgot to say before I had to rush out to town, that the map is looking very good...just those couple of things caught my eye, but if they're of no consequence then i understand. :)
Last edited by cairnswk on Mon Jun 23, 2008 3:18 am, edited 2 times in total.
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