Archipelago [Quenched]

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Re: Archipelago v2 (p1+2)

Postby CatfishJohnson on Fri Apr 18, 2008 7:00 am

No i understand man dont worry im not painting us a bad guy at all, im just sick of their same reasons over and over fo sho
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Re: Archipelago v2 (p1+2)

Postby t-o-m on Fri Apr 18, 2008 9:41 am

ZeakCytho wrote:
t-o-m wrote:
Mjinga wrote:
How, then? Please inform me. Specific details work best.

im not making the map, i have no interest in this map so my only suggestion is to get a theme, theme it more i.e have flags on there from the countries that have there - i know little about where your doing so do some research into their culture and things and include that in there - atm it looks a bit...meh...boring...i know it is a first draft though


Umm...This is a fictional map. There isn't research to do into culture or things, nor are there existing flags. So...not much we can do with that suggestion...

t-o-m wrote:i saw both of your names on the "users browsing this forum", why dont you respond? ;)


Given that your suggestion wasn't very helpful (you told us to research a fictional region that we made up :|), we didn't really have much to say.


well there we go again, i give you some support/guidance and you go sayin that its a shit suggestion!
y dont you just do a real archipelo, one with culture, one with a flag, one that people can relate to???
-
-
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also mr benn - not mr been catfish
umm whats the numbers thing around the sides of peoples' names on ur list thingy?
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Re: Archipelago v2 (p1+2)

Postby bryguy on Sun Apr 20, 2008 9:29 am

The volcano looks horrid

see DiMs AoR Mayhem map, it has a nice looking volcano


catfish, you seem to have a bad attitude that makes me hate this map even more.
same for zeak

t-o-m wrote:
ZeakCytho wrote:
t-o-m wrote:im not making the map, i have no interest in this map so my only suggestion is to get a theme, theme it more i.e have flags on there from the countries that have there - i know little about where your doing so do some research into their culture and things and include that in there - atm it looks a bit...meh...boring...i know it is a first draft though


Umm...This is a fictional map. There isn't research to do into culture or things, nor are there existing flags. So...not much we can do with that suggestion... make up a flag then :roll:

t-o-m wrote:i saw both of your names on the "users browsing this forum", why dont you respond? ;)


Given that your suggestion wasn't very helpful (you told us to research a fictional region that we made up :|), we didn't really have much to say. he didnt exactly tell u to research a fictional region, he basically told you to MAKE some flags. Google different flags, then when u have a good idea of flags u should make some for it.


well there we go again, i give you some support/guidance and you go sayin that its a shit suggestion!
y dont you just do a real archipelo, one with culture, one with a flag, one that people can relate to???
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-
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also mr benn - not mr been catfish
umm whats the numbers thing around the sides of peoples' names on ur list thingy? i believe it is ammount of posts


edit: the only thing good about this map i can see, is that the bonus' arent half bad, except for the yellow place, it has so many borders to protect u should up the bonus to 6
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Re: Archipelago v2 (p1+2)

Postby greenoaks on Sun Apr 20, 2008 9:51 am

none of your attack routes make sense.

why can the armies of Niagis attack Islor Coast, Odesse, Iora Archipelago & Kyson but they can't sail directly to Orold, Asaad, Fidan Peninsula or Sarubi.

why can the Fidan Peninsula attack Sarubi but not the Mura Coast.

why can Bokep Island attack Hersis, Chakala, Toril & Falmor but not Luron Coast, Kelata or Mura Coast.
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Re: Archipelago v2 (p1+2)

Postby ZeakCytho on Sun Apr 20, 2008 5:12 pm

I've been away on vacation for a few days now, and will be away for a few more still, so I have rather limited internet access time and can't respond to each point made (yet). An update will come as soon as possible, but for now, I appologize for the long delay.

:oops:
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Re: Archipelago v2 (p1+2)

Postby Mjinga on Sun Apr 20, 2008 6:14 pm

Thanks, Unit_2. Glad you like the map, CatfishJohnson.:)

wcaclimbing, it’s looking like were going to end up taking it out. I have to run something by Zeak once I catch him online, but it’s looking like the negative-bonus thing isn’t going to work, and it’s just a random volcano without that.

MrBenn, thanks for the advice.

TaCktiX, thanks for your opinion.

t-o-m, he did not say it was a shit suggestion. He said that he didn’t know how it applied to this map.

bryguy, thanks for clarifying t-o-m’s comments. We misread “i know little about where your doing so do some research into their culture and things and include that in there” as a suggestion to do some research into the culture of this fictional island group.

Regarding the bonus, we got it from the bonus-calculator thing somewhere on this forum, but I think you’re right, it should be upped.

greenoaks, I had in mind that Bokep would be a connector between the purple countries without being an avenue of outside invasion, but on the others, I can’t say there was a particular reason on my part. Let me find out from Zeak if he has one, and I’ll get back to you on changing it.
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Re: Archipelago v2 (p1+2)

Postby greenoaks on Sun Apr 20, 2008 6:42 pm

what i'm getting at is sea routes aren't fixed. i only suggested places of roughly equal distance to those already in place as their might be restrictions on the range of the fleet like there are for planes. there could be restrictions on where you can attack from ie. the location of a naval base but there would be no such restriction on where you can attack, think US marines or D-Day.
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Re: Archipelago v2 (p1+2)

Postby ZeakCytho on Wed Apr 23, 2008 3:56 pm

Okay, the next version is being worked on right now and will be up...sometime soon ;)

Things added:
1) Attack routes drastically altered so that they're all similar in length
2) The volcano has been changed into a regular mountain
3) Flags have been created and added in the style of the Great Lakes map (low opacity on top of the layer of the respective continent)

Things still to decide:
1) How many total territories should be added to make the starting positions more equal?
2) How should the continent bonuses be changed? We didn't alter these yet because many of the attack routes have been modified, but once the next version is out, tentative continent bonuses should be discussed.

I'm back from my vacation now, so things should proceed more swiftly. Thanks to everyone who has commented so far :D
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Re: Archipelago v2 (p1+2)

Postby t-o-m on Wed Apr 23, 2008 5:06 pm

im quite looking forward to see this up,
im not too sure about the terit numbers to go with the starting positions, maybe if you give us a list i.e.
[how many terits there are now, lets say 20 (random number)]
8players =2terits
7players = 2terits
6plyr = 3 terits
5plyr=4
4plyr=5
3plyr=6
2plyr=10

^like that maybe??^
just so we know how many terits people start with??
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Re: Archipelago v2 (p1+2)

Postby ZeakCytho on Wed Apr 23, 2008 5:23 pm

There are 36 territories right now. I am not 100% sure on how CC divides territories at the beginning, but based on my experiences, I think these are the numbers for now:

My notation is: Number of players - Number of territories per player, number of neutrals

2 - 12, 12
3 - 12
4 - 9
5 - 7, 1
6 - 6
7 - 5, 1
8 - 4, 4

The problem with this layout is that in 2 and 3 player games, the first player to go gets 4 men to start and can easily reduce his opponents starting deployment to 3 by taking just one territory. Here are the charts for some other starting values that seem reasonable and don't require a massive amount of additions/subtractions from the map:

38 players:
2 - 13, 12
3 - 12, 2
4 - 9, 2
5 - 7, 3
6 - 6, 2
7 - 5, 3
8 - 4, 6

40 players:
2 - 13, 14
3 - 13, 1
4 - 10
5 - 8
6 - 6, 4
7 - 5, 5
8 - 5

34 players:
2 - 11, 12
3 - 11, 1
4 - 8, 2
5 - 6, 4
6 - 5, 4
7 - 4, 6
8 - 4, 2

So, 36 has the least number of starting neutrals, but has that nasty thing with 2 and 3 player games that none of the others have. 38 and 34 both have tons of starting neutrals, which is annoying, while 40 has relatively fewer.

Can people a) check my math and b) comment on which number of starting territories they'd like the most?
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Re: Archipelago v2 (p1+2)

Postby ZeakCytho on Fri Apr 25, 2008 4:11 pm

Okay, new version! We found after adding the flags that they came out horribly, so version 3a is without flags, and version 3b is with.

Version 3a (Large)
Click image to enlarge.
image


Version 3b (Large)
Click image to enlarge.
image


What you need to know:
Number of territories: 36
Number of continents: 6
Gameplay Info: Classic gameplay

Updates in this version
1) Many attack routes added and deleted to standardize the maximum distance for an inter-island attack as per Greenoak's request.
2) The geography of Thres was changed slightly so that Strent no longer has a border facing Bokep Island and Hersis and Chakala border each other. We think that makes for better gameplay.
3) Flags designed for each continent and put into version 3b
4) Volcano on Bishan Island turned into a regular mountain

Points of Discussion
1) How many territories should this map have total?
2) Which version is better, 3a or 3b?
3) Continent bonuses should probably be altered given the new attack lines
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Re: Archipelago v3 (Page 1&5) Updated 25 April 2008

Postby pepperonibread on Fri Apr 25, 2008 4:18 pm

If you want to go with flags, I'd try a style like the Great Lakes map. That usually looks pretty cool.
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Re: Archipelago v3 (Page 1&5) Updated 25 April 2008

Postby Mr. Squirrel on Fri Apr 25, 2008 8:37 pm

I really have no suggestions for this map, only support. I have been watching this and I really like it from what I see so far.

I do have one question though: Did you create this map completely from your mind? Geography-wise, it looks amazing, especially for only being in V3. I can't wait to see how it looks when you reach the main foundry.

Good luck, I am totally behind the creation of this map. =D>
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Re: Archipelago v3 (Page 1&5) Updated 25 April 2008

Postby Mjinga on Fri Apr 25, 2008 8:55 pm

pepperonibread, I thought about it, but I couldn't think of a way to implement it. The small island territories aren't contiguous, and none of them are big enough to contain a flag graphic. I'm thinking that it might be better not to have flags at all.

Mr. Squirrel, no, I didn't create it completely from my mind. Zeak helped. ;) And thanks! :D
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Re: Archipelago v3 (Page 1&5) Updated 25 April 2008

Postby jiminski on Sat Apr 26, 2008 4:21 pm

Apologies, i have not read through, checked on gameplay or anything other than look at the first page, prompted by your sig.

This is a beautiful map, with vibrant colours and a really captivating tone to the graphic.
Image
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Re: Archipelago v3 (Page 1&5) Updated 25 April 2008

Postby ZeakCytho on Sun Apr 27, 2008 4:24 pm

jiminski wrote:Apologies, i have not read through, checked on gameplay or anything other than look at the first page, prompted by your sig.

This is a beautiful map, with vibrant colours and a really captivating tone to the graphic.


Thanks :D

What else is needed to make this an advanced idea?
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Re: Archipelago v3 (Page 1&5) Updated 25 April 2008

Postby t-o-m on Sun Apr 27, 2008 4:42 pm

ZeakCytho wrote:
jiminski wrote:Apologies, i have not read through, checked on gameplay or anything other than look at the first page, prompted by your sig.

This is a beautiful map, with vibrant colours and a really captivating tone to the graphic.


Thanks :D

What else is needed to make this an advanced idea?

i think this is an advanced idea :)
i think i like it now - sorry about before, its good
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Re: Archipelago v3 (Page 1&5) Updated 25 April 2008

Postby ZeakCytho on Sun Apr 27, 2008 5:15 pm

t-o-m wrote:i think this is an advanced idea :)
i think i like it now - sorry about before, its good


By advanced idea, I meant stickied :)
Thanks for your support for the map now.
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Re: Archipelago v3 (Pg. 1&5) - Request for Advanced Idea

Postby t-o-m on Sun Apr 27, 2008 5:23 pm

ZeakCytho wrote:By advanced idea, I meant stickied :)

i know :)
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Re: Archipelago v3 (Pg. 1&5) - Request for Advanced Idea

Postby gimil on Sun Apr 27, 2008 5:29 pm

[Adv. Idea] Im not happy with only 5 thread pages considering the amount of time this has been around thought.
What do you know about map making, bitch?

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Re: Archipelago v3 (Pg. 1&5) - Request for Advanced Idea

Postby t-o-m on Sun Apr 27, 2008 5:35 pm

well done =D>
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Re: Archipelago v3 (Pg. 1&5) - Updated 25 April 2008

Postby Mjinga on Sun Apr 27, 2008 5:42 pm

Thank you, gimil. We've only had a few graphical/gameplay suggestions; many of the comments in the last pages have been positive support only, with no suggestions.

And thanks, t-o-m. I saw yours was stickied too, congrats!
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Re: Archipelago v3 (Pg. 1&5) - Updated 25 April 2008

Postby jiminski on Mon Apr 28, 2008 6:59 am

Mjinga wrote:Thank you, gimil. We've only had a few graphical/gameplay suggestions; many of the comments in the last pages have been positive support only, with no suggestions.



hehe it seems "it's pretty" is not cutting much mustard as a comment in these parts!

well just a thought (and i am very much a noooob in these matters; regarding cartographic process.. or when you talk about gameplay are you predominantly talking bonus values or do you mean attacking options too.. anyway i will take a leap!) but perhaps you could have a volcano in the Bisham Island.. which could erupt/bombard to take the nearest territories perhaps as far as the first surrounding islet?

as to bonus's i think perhaps Bisham could be worth 1 less (3). It is worth the same as Biceror which is much more open to attack with 5 points of entry compared with in effect 3 for Bisham. (in fact biceror may be undervalued with 7 territories?)
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Re: Archipelago v3 (Pg. 1&5) - Updated 25 April 2008

Postby ZeakCytho on Mon Apr 28, 2008 3:25 pm

jiminski wrote:well just a thought (and i am very much a noooob in these matters; regarding cartographic process.. or when you talk about gameplay are you predominantly talking bonus values or do you mean attacking options too.. anyway i will take a leap!) but perhaps you could have a volcano in the Bisham Island.. which could erupt/bombard to take the nearest territories perhaps as far as the first surrounding islet?

as to bonus's i think perhaps Bisham could be worth 1 less (3). It is worth the same as Biceror which is much more open to attack with 5 points of entry compared with in effect 3 for Bisham. (in fact biceror may be undervalued with 7 territories?)


Thanks for the input!

I prefer classic gameplay myself, but making Bishan a volcano again and then making that a territory that can bombard the rest of the island is a viable option. How do other people feel about that?

I agree with a lot of what you said about bonuses - Bishan is overvalued, Biceror undervalued. The bonuses had been left alone since version 2 because so many attack routes were changed. I think Biceror should be worth much more. Here are the bonuses I propose for v4:
Isris - 3
Bishan - 3
Biceror - 5
Thres - 4
Vienlorre - 6
Kalwar - 2

Things We Really Need Comments On:
1) Version 3a or 3b (No flags or flags)?
2) Do we need to add/remove some territories? (If so, how many?)
3) Thoughts on the bonuses I proposed above?

I'm putting up a poll on whether Bishan should be a volcano that can bombard the island in a second.
Last edited by ZeakCytho on Mon Apr 28, 2008 3:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Archipelago v3 (Pg. 1&5) - New Poll

Postby jiminski on Mon Apr 28, 2008 3:40 pm

I 'think' i side with you against myself on the Volcano option (just input for its sake perhaps ;) )

I pretty much agree with your Bonus's on first evaluation much truer to the difficulty to hold... i have not examined the tactical aspect (ease and access to the rest of the board) but in general i think you have it right.


The point of 3a or 3b is a tough one...... I really like the uninterrupted vibrancy and form of the map.. it has a terrific aesthetic! it kind of alludes to cogs in motion.
.. saying that, i do really like Bisham in particular with the flag, the shape and shade evokes some kind of an unbalanced symmetry (i am aware of the contradiction)

I do have to side with the map without flags i think, due to the overall synergy of form ! .. both excellent choices though!
Last edited by jiminski on Mon Apr 28, 2008 6:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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