Eastern Hemisphere [Quenched]

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Re: Eastern Hemisphere: latest on pg 9 [I]

Postby yeti_c on Wed Jul 02, 2008 8:59 am

sam_levi_11 wrote:the border between germany and poland looks very odd, out of place.


I think that's because the yellow border from it being Europe - isn't actually there.

C.
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Re: Eastern Hemisphere: latest on pg 9 [I]

Postby oaktown on Wed Jul 02, 2008 11:21 am

yeti_c wrote:
sam_levi_11 wrote:the border between germany and poland looks very odd, out of place.


I think that's because the yellow border from it being Europe - isn't actually there.

C.

Actually a few of the borders between regions need to be cleaned up because they don't match up right/the wrong layer is on top. And thanks to the one voice who likes the tree roots - I personally like them as well, but I'll try something else.

Gameplay comments? Anyone? Bueller?
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Re: Eastern Hemisphere: latest on pg 9 [I]

Postby Ruben Cassar on Wed Jul 02, 2008 11:52 am

Ferris speaking.

Wouldn't the title sound better if it was:
End of Empires : The Eastern Hemisphere without the "The" in front.

Also I don't want to sound like a troublemaker but I am not able to see where a region ends and another one begins. The border colours look too similar to me. :(

Sorry I know you wanted gameplay comments but that's all I have for now.
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Re: Eastern Hemisphere: latest on pg 9 [I]

Postby InkL0sed on Wed Jul 02, 2008 11:53 am

I'm not sure I like the fact that colonies can't attack Trading Co. Or that Trading Co. are neutral killers. Is that really necessary, or is that just a needless gimmick?
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Re: Eastern Hemisphere: latest on pg 9 [I]

Postby pamoa on Wed Jul 02, 2008 12:17 pm

InkL0sed wrote:I'm not sure I like the fact that colonies can't attack Trading Co. Or that Trading Co. are neutral killers. Is that really necessary, or is that just a needless gimmick?

It seems to me you put 2 ideas in this trading company concept:
    -either, it's a one way attack route from europe to colonies then they should remain killer neutral but you can remove the counter attack from colonies and they will tend be like a decoration feature.
    - or, they are "bridges" between colonies which can be attacked from europe then it would be better to remove the killer neutral stuff so they remain a kind of permanent danger which need to be controled. You have then a 2 way game: some people will try to control them to control the game, other will go for classic.
I prefer the second which like an objective map without objective, but could be very tricky to master in term of counter-attack.
You can even give a bonus for contolling them all like +2.
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Re: Eastern Hemisphere: latest on pg 9 [I]

Postby oaktown on Wed Jul 02, 2008 12:35 pm

InkL0sed wrote:I'm not sure I like the fact that colonies can't attack Trading Co. Or that Trading Co. are neutral killers. Is that really necessary, or is that just a needless gimmick?

the idea was to approximate the way that european powers were able to exert their global influence both directly by sending troops around the globe and attacking conventionally, and indirectly through the quasi-independent trading companies.

Let's say you are playing this map and you hold France. Your opponent has taken control of Southeast Asia, and you don't want him to hold that bonus. You don't have any armies in that part of the world because you've tied up your resources in North Africa, so instead you turn to your trading company to wreak havoc on Siam, which the trading company controls economically of not physically. To do so you expend some resources taking temporary control of the Trading Company, then through the Trading Co. you pummel Siam into political disarray. You didn't actually send any troops in so you can't control the region, but you have disrupted your opponent's control over the region.

I would be willing to discuss an alternative to the Trading Companies reverting to neutral, but I don't want the Trading Cos to directly occupy a territory. The alternative I am considering is allow the Trading Co's to perhaps start the game neutral, but then become the property of the player that takes them. However, to avoid making the Trading Co's too powerful, the colonies could bombard - not capture - the Trading Co's. This opens up the strategic route of allowing a player to try to control the game by controlling the Trading Co's, as Pamoa suggested, without making them all-powerful.

As for giving a bonus for holding them all, I predict any the player who controls them will be the player who also controls Europe, so I think it's enough to receive the Europe region bonus and having the power to pick off your opponents bonuses around the globe, especially if we allow the player to keep the Trading Co. from round to round.
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Re: Eastern Hemisphere: latest on pg 9 [I]

Postby pamoa on Wed Jul 02, 2008 12:42 pm

I like your alternative, these trading Co's were the last real forces europe had to control territories which where allready emancipating, so they need to be an important feature.The bonus idea was only if you could take control of them from colonies. But, as your alternative is more realistic just forget it, none of these colonies could ever dream controling any of the Trading Co's.
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Re: Eastern Hemisphere: latest on pg 9 [I]

Postby MrBenn on Wed Jul 02, 2008 2:28 pm

pamoa wrote:I like your alternative, these trading Co's were the last real forces europe had to control territories which where allready emancipating, so they need to be an important feature.The bonus idea was only if you could take control of them from colonies. But, as your alternative is more realistic just forget it, none of these colonies could ever dream controling any of the Trading Co's.

I also think that the bombard option would make for better gameplay... I still think that neutral killers are a bit gimmicky...
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Re: Eastern Hemisphere: latest on pg 9 [I]

Postby yeti_c on Wed Jul 02, 2008 3:29 pm

oaktown wrote:
yeti_c wrote:
sam_levi_11 wrote:the border between germany and poland looks very odd, out of place.


I think that's because the yellow border from it being Europe - isn't actually there.

C.

Actually a few of the borders between regions need to be cleaned up because they don't match up right/the wrong layer is on top. And thanks to the one voice who likes the tree roots - I personally like them as well, but I'll try something else.

Gameplay comments? Anyone? Bueller?


I'll give some love to the roots too - I think they look shit hot.

C.
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Re: Eastern Hemisphere: latest on pg 9 [I]

Postby sam_levi_11 on Wed Jul 02, 2008 4:57 pm

oaktown wrote:
yeti_c wrote:
sam_levi_11 wrote:the border between germany and poland looks very odd, out of place.


I think that's because the yellow border from it being Europe - isn't actually there.

C.

Actually a few of the borders between regions need to be cleaned up because they don't match up right/the wrong layer is on top. And thanks to the one voice who likes the tree roots - I personally like them as well, but I'll try something else.

Gameplay comments? Anyone? Bueller?


twas me! i think they are awesome and unique. stick with them
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Re: Eastern Hemisphere: latest on pg 9 [I]

Postby InkL0sed on Wed Jul 02, 2008 5:48 pm

I like the idea of letting the colonies bombard the Trading Co. That seems to make it a little more balanced.
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Re: Eastern Hemisphere: latest on pg 9 [I]

Postby BaldAdonis on Thu Jul 03, 2008 1:29 am

oaktown wrote:Gameplay comments? Anyone? Bueller?
I might give a +3 for SE Asia, while it has 3/4 to defend just like Middle East and Japan, it also has two bombardable territories.

Aside from that, looks very nice. There's a good distribution of highly connected territories (7 have 6, 7 or 8 degrees of connectedness, 3 more if bombardments are included), but the overall average is sort of small (4, 20, 20, 9, 7, 5, 1, 1 averages 2.9, compare to 3.9 for Classic). The bombardments extends the reach of European territories by 14 overall. So long as they revert to 1 each time, it's reasonable to count them as connecting the homelands to the empire without actually adding them in as territories, so that bumps it up to 3.1. I wouldn't be worried about it, it'll just play better for flat rate/no cards games where connectedness is less desirable. The large 6/7/8 hubs and dearth of dead ends will make for interesting escalating games.
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Re: Eastern Hemisphere: latest on pg 9 [I]

Postby oaktown on Fri Jul 04, 2008 7:20 pm

Click image to enlarge.
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Gameplay change: no more killer neutrals. Trading companies can be held, but can be bombarded by colonies of like flag... general strikes and the like. And I should note that to keep a good number of starting territories the trading companies will start the game nuetral.

Graphical changes... added a blue tinted pattern to the sea, not sure what I think. The region border color is a bit wider, and as suggested it follows the mountains in Asia to make it clear that the mountains are the end of the region. I added some noise to the entire thing, and I'm toying with the idea of adding some light rivers - not a gameplay feature, just to make this map look more like an actual map. My hope is that if I push this in the direction of looking like a real document the tree root mountains - love 'em or hate 'em - will fit in a bit more. Who knows - it may be a futile move.
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Re: Eastern Hemisphere: latest on pg 10 [I]

Postby AndyDufresne on Sat Jul 05, 2008 9:20 pm

I like most of the changes, especially the Trading Companies (both in graphics and game play), though I'm not sure I like the wider color outline...it almost looks like too much now. But I generally like the noise.

Are you going to make any slight alterations to the legend? I.E. maybe bolder text?

Have you done anything to the flags? If not, are you going to? ;)

Looking good.


--Andy
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Re: Eastern Hemisphere: latest on pg 10 [I]

Postby Ruben Cassar on Sun Jul 06, 2008 5:44 am

AndyDufresne wrote:I like most of the changes, especially the Trading Companies (both in graphics and game play), though I'm not sure I like the wider color outline...it almost looks like too much now. But I generally like the noise.

--Andy


Like it or not, I'm able to differentiate between a region and another now while before I couldn't. So it's thumbs up for the new wider borders from my side. I understand that non colour blind people might prefer the older borders but for us colour blind players I think they are essential.

Btw Oak, you didn't tell me what you think about making the name "End of Empires" instead of "The End of Empires". I think it sounds better and has more of an impact, what do you think?
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