Eastern Hemisphere [Quenched]

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Re: Eastern Hemisphere [Beta]

Postby Caesius on Thu Apr 30, 2009 10:27 pm

I'm relatively new to CC, but I've played a fair number of maps and this one has grown to be my favorite, and I play it religiously even though it's still in beta. The empires and the concept of naval superiority add a whole new dimension to the map.

I only play two-player games though, so my input will only apply to when this game is played with two players, but I also usually play this map with Fog of War enabled.

I've only read a few comments in this thread, but here are some of my thoughts (more like observations):

-It's very easy to take and hold Japan if at least two of your armies start there, especially if Amur, Manchuria, and/or Shanghai are held by neutral armies.

-Europe can be very hotly contested between players who have experience with the map, since they know that if they try to take control of a European power's empire and the enemy knows that they've taken it and still hold at least one European power, then that power can take Naval Superiority and bombard all their 1-army colonies. Thus, it becomes a priority to deny the enemy access to Naval Superiority before attempting to complete an empire. Once the enemy is out of Europe, taking the rest of Europe and gaining the +8 bonus could be very easy, depending on the distribution of neutral armies and the enemy's activities elsewhere in the world (e.g. if you're also busy keeping them from taking Japan or China, which can't be bombarded).

-Given the importance of Europe, a player taking the entirety of the region is a fairly common occurrence given its size. Russia on the other hand I have never seen taken, because it simply does not hold anywhere near the same strategic importance - certainly, resources spent taking Russia almost universally would be better spent taking Europe.
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Re: Eastern Hemisphere [Beta]

Postby xelabale on Fri May 01, 2009 3:35 am

Caesius wrote:I'm relatively new to CC, but I've played a fair number of maps and this one has grown to be my favorite, and I play it religiously even though it's still in beta. The empires and the concept of naval superiority add a whole new dimension to the map.

I only play two-player games though, so my input will only apply to when this game is played with two players, but I also usually play this map with Fog of War enabled.

I've only read a few comments in this thread, but here are some of my thoughts (more like observations):

-It's very easy to take and hold Japan if at least two of your armies start there, especially if Amur, Manchuria, and/or Shanghai are held by neutral armies.

-Europe can be very hotly contested between players who have experience with the map, since they know that if they try to take control of a European power's empire and the enemy knows that they've taken it and still hold at least one European power, then that power can take Naval Superiority and bombard all their 1-army colonies. Thus, it becomes a priority to deny the enemy access to Naval Superiority before attempting to complete an empire. Once the enemy is out of Europe, taking the rest of Europe and gaining the +8 bonus could be very easy, depending on the distribution of neutral armies and the enemy's activities elsewhere in the world (e.g. if you're also busy keeping them from taking Japan or China, which can't be bombarded).

-Given the importance of Europe, a player taking the entirety of the region is a fairly common occurrence given its size. Russia on the other hand I have never seen taken, because it simply does not hold anywhere near the same strategic importance - certainly, resources spent taking Russia almost universally would be better spent taking Europe.

All of which shows the maps depth and interest. Thank you Mr. Map Maker!!
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Re: Eastern Hemisphere [Beta]

Postby oaktown on Fri May 01, 2009 11:09 pm

Click image to enlarge.
image

Click image to enlarge.
image

XML: http://www.fileden.com/files/2008/7/30/ ... sphere.xml


Alright, I've taken everything in and made all kinds of changes.

• Rhodesia is no longer a part of the UK Empire, and as such can no longer be bombarded by a ship... which never made sense anyway.

• Shanghai is now a part of the UK Empire, representing Hong Kong, and is can be bombarded by the ship. This won't make the UK Empire any easier to hold (sorry brits), but the Chinese Empire can now be broken remotely. I think this is a key change.

• Some army coordinates have had to move: Rhodesia's count will appear where the flag was, and Canton has moved over to the left to make space for the flag.

• 16 territories have been added to the starting positions: the four Japan territories, the China and Oceania territories that aren't displaying a flag, and Siam (because I had to have 16). Each of the eight starting positions now starts with two of these territories in addition to a European territory. No start has more than territory in China, Japan, or Oceania, and I tried to get clever with the combinations: UK and Australia are joined, Philippines and Spain, etc. If you're curious as to how they're broken down, they're at the top of the code...

Code: Select all
<?xml version="1.0"?>
<map>
   <title>Hemisphere</title>
   <smallwidth>630</smallwidth>
   <smallheight>600</smallheight>
   <largewidth>840</largewidth>
   <largeheight>800</largeheight>
   <filetype>jpg</filetype>

<positions>
   <position>
      <territory>Great Britain</territory>
      <territory>Manchuria</territory>
      <territory>Australia</territory>
   </position>
   <position>
      <territory>Germany</territory>
      <territory>Peking</territory>
      <territory>New Guinea</territory>
   </position>
   <position>
      <territory>Netherlands</territory>
      <territory>Shanghai</territory>
      <territory>New Zealand</territory>
   </position>
   <position>
      <territory>Austria-Hungary</territory>
      <territory>Japan</territory>
      <territory>Borneo</territory>
   </position>
   <position>
      <territory>Italy</territory>
      <territory>Karafuto</territory>
      <territory>Siam</territory>
   </position>
   <position>
      <territory>France</territory>
      <territory>Taiwan</territory>
      <territory>Sinkiang</territory>
   </position>
   <position>
      <territory>Portugal</territory>
      <territory>Korea</territory>
      <territory>Tibet</territory>
   </position>
   <position>
      <territory>Spain</territory>
      <territory>Philippine Islands</territory>
      <territory>Mongolia</territory>
   </position>
</positions>

   <continent>
      <name>Europe</name>
      <bonus>8</bonus>
      <components>
         <territory>Iceland</territory>
         <territory>Great Britain</territory>
         <territory>Norway</territory>
         <territory>Sweden</territory>
         <territory>Germany</territory>
         <territory>Netherlands</territory>
         <territory>Austria-Hungary</territory>
         <territory>Balkans</territory>
         <territory>Italy</territory>
         <territory>France</territory>
         <territory>Spain</territory>
         <territory>Portugal</territory>
      </components>
   </continent>

   <continent>
      <name>Northern Africa</name>
      <bonus>4</bonus>
      <components>
         <territory>Morocco</territory>
         <territory>French West Africa</territory>
         <territory>Tripoli</territory>
         <territory>Liberia</territory>
         <territory>Nigeria</territory>
         <territory>Egypt and Sudan</territory>
         </components>
   </continent>

   <continent>
      <name>Horn of Africa</name>
      <bonus>1</bonus>
      <components>
         <territory>Somaliland</territory>   
         <territory>Abyssinia</territory>
         <territory>British East Africa</territory>
         </components>
   </continent>

   <continent>
      <name>Southern Africa</name>
      <bonus>5</bonus>
      <components>
         <territory>Cameroon</territory>
         <territory>Congo</territory>
         <territory>German East Africa</territory>
         <territory>German South West Africa</territory>
         <territory>Rhodesia</territory>
         <territory>Angola</territory>
         <territory>Madagascar</territory>
         <territory>South Africa</territory>
         <territory>Portuguese East Africa</territory>
      </components>
   </continent>

   <continent>
      <name>Russian Empire</name>
      <bonus>9</bonus>
      <components>
         <territory>St. Petersburg</territory>
         <territory>Finland</territory>
         <territory>Vilno</territory>
         <territory>Warsaw</territory>
         <territory>Ukraine</territory>
         <territory>Moscow</territory>
         <territory>Kazan</territory>
         <territory>Caucasus</territory>
         <territory>Turkestan</territory>
         <territory>Omsk</territory>
         <territory>Irkutsk</territory>
         <territory>Amur</territory>
      </components>
   </continent>

   <continent>
      <name>Middle East</name>
      <bonus>3</bonus>
      <components>
         <territory>Ottoman Empire</territory>
         <territory>Arabia</territory>
         <territory>Persia</territory>
         <territory>Afghanistan</territory>
      </components>
   </continent>

   <continent>
      <name>Southern Asia</name>
      <bonus>3</bonus>
      <components>
         <territory>India</territory>
         <territory>Nepal</territory>
         <territory>Burma</territory>
         <territory>Siam</territory>
         <territory>Indochina</territory>
      </components>
      
   </continent>

   <continent>
      <name>Chinese Empire</name>
      <bonus>5</bonus>
      <components>
         <territory>Manchuria</territory>
         <territory>Mongolia</territory>
         <territory>Sinkiang</territory>
         <territory>Peking</territory>
         <territory>Tibet</territory>
         <territory>Shanghai</territory>
         <territory>Canton</territory>
      </components>
   </continent>

   <continent>
      <name>Oceania</name>
      <bonus>4</bonus>
      <components>
         <territory>Philippine Islands</territory>
         <territory>Borneo</territory>
         <territory>New Guinea</territory>
         <territory>Sumatra</territory>
         <territory>Java</territory>
         <territory>Australia</territory>
         <territory>New Zealand</territory>
      </components>
   </continent>
      
   <continent>
      <name>Japanese Empire</name>
      <bonus>2</bonus>
      <components>
         <territory>Japan</territory>
         <territory>Korea</territory>
         <territory>Karafuto</territory>
         <territory>Taiwan</territory>
      </components>
   </continent>
   
   <continent>
      <name>British Empire</name>
      <bonus>6</bonus>
      <components>
         <territory>Great Britain</territory>
         <territory>Canton</territory>
         <territory>South Africa</territory>
         <territory>Nigeria</territory>
         <territory>India</territory>
         <territory>Egypt and Sudan</territory>
         <territory>British East Africa</territory>
      </components>
   </continent>   
   
   <continent>
      <name>Portuguese Empire</name>
      <bonus>2</bonus>
      <components>
         <territory>Portugal</territory>
         <territory>Angola</territory>
         <territory>Portuguese East Africa</territory>
      </components>
   </continent>
   
   <continent>
      <name>French Empire</name>
      <bonus>3</bonus>
      <components>
         <territory>France</territory>
         <territory>Madagascar</territory>
         <territory>Indochina</territory>
         <territory>French West Africa</territory>
      </components>
   </continent>   
   
   <continent>
      <name>German Empire</name>
      <bonus>3</bonus>
      <components>
         <territory>Germany</territory>
         <territory>Cameroon</territory>
         <territory>German South West Africa</territory>
         <territory>German East Africa</territory>
      </components>
   </continent>      
   
   <continent>
      <name>Dutch Empire</name>
      <bonus>2</bonus>
      <components>
         <territory>Netherlands</territory>
         <territory>Sumatra</territory>
         <territory>Java</territory>
      </components>
   </continent>      

   <continent>
      <name>Italian Empire</name>
      <bonus>2</bonus>
      <components>
         <territory>Italy</territory>
         <territory>Tripoli</territory>
         <territory>Somaliland</territory>
      </components>
   </continent>      
   
   <territory>
      <name>Iceland</name>
      <borders>
         <border>Norway</border>
         <border>Great Britain</border>
      </borders>
            <coordinates>
         <smallx>54</smallx>
         <smally>103</smally>
         <largex>41</largex>
         <largey>141</largey>
      </coordinates>
   </territory>
   <territory>
      <name>Great Britain</name>
      <borders>
         <border>Iceland</border>
         <border>France</border>
         <border>Naval Superiority</border>
      </borders>
            <coordinates>
         <smallx>45</smallx>
         <smally>206</smally>
         <largex>63</largex>
         <largey>267</largey>
      </coordinates>
   </territory>
   <territory>
      <name>Norway</name>
      <borders>
         <border>Iceland</border>
         <border>Sweden</border>
         <border>Finland</border>
         <border>St. Petersburg</border>
      </borders>
            <coordinates>
         <smallx>90</smallx>
         <smally>146</smally>
         <largex>123</largex>
         <largey>186</largey>
      </coordinates>
   </territory>
   <territory>
      <name>Sweden</name>
      <borders>
         <border>Norway</border>
         <border>Germany</border>
         <border>Finland</border>
      </borders>
            <coordinates>
         <smallx>114</smallx>
         <smally>162</smally>
         <largex>150</largex>
         <largey>210</largey>
      </coordinates>
   </territory>
   <territory>
      <name>France</name>
      <borders>
         <border>Great Britain</border>
         <border>Spain</border>
         <border>Netherlands</border>
         <border>Italy</border>
         <border>Germany</border>
         <border>French West Africa</border>
         <border>Naval Superiority</border>
      </borders>
            <coordinates>
         <smallx>67</smallx>
         <smally>244</smally>
         <largex>90</largex>
         <largey>317</largey>
      </coordinates>
   </territory>
   <territory>
      <name>Spain</name>
      <borders>
         <border>Portugal</border>
         <border>Morocco</border>
         <border>France</border>
      </borders>
            <coordinates>
         <smallx>48</smallx>
         <smally>274</smally>
         <largex>65</largex>
         <largey>356</largey>
      </coordinates>
   </territory>
   <territory>
      <name>Portugal</name>
      <borders>
         <border>Spain</border>
         <border>Naval Superiority</border>
      </borders>
            <coordinates>
         <smallx>13</smallx>
         <smally>266</smally>
         <largex>22</largex>
         <largey>349</largey>
      </coordinates>
   </territory>
   <territory>
      <name>Germany</name>
      <borders>
         <border>France</border>
         <border>Netherlands</border>
         <border>Sweden</border>
         <border>Warsaw</border>
         <border>Austria-Hungary</border>
         <border>Vilno</border>
         <border>Naval Superiority</border>
      </borders>
            <coordinates>
         <smallx>106</smallx>
         <smally>210</smally>
         <largex>142</largex>
         <largey>271</largey>
      </coordinates>
   </territory>
   <territory>
      <name>Austria-Hungary</name>
      <borders>
         <border>Germany</border>
         <border>Warsaw</border>
         <border>Ukraine</border>
         <border>Balkans</border>
         <border>Italy</border>
      </borders>
            <coordinates>
         <smallx>124</smallx>
         <smally>238</smally>
         <largex>168</largex>
         <largey>309</largey>
      </coordinates>
   </territory>
   <territory>
      <name>Italy</name>
      <borders>
         <border>France</border>
         <border>Austria-Hungary</border>
         <border>Tripoli</border>         
         <border>Naval Superiority</border>
      </borders>
            <coordinates>
         <smallx>109</smallx>
         <smally>278</smally>
         <largex>146</largex>
         <largey>361</largey>
      </coordinates>
   </territory>
   <territory>
      <name>Netherlands</name>
      <borders>
         <border>France</border>
         <border>Germany</border>
         <border>Naval Superiority</border>
      </borders>
            <coordinates>
         <smallx>78</smallx>
         <smally>210</smally>
         <largex>105</largex>
         <largey>272</largey>
      </coordinates>
   </territory>
   <territory>
      <name>Balkans</name>
      <borders>
         <border>Austria-Hungary</border>
         <border>Ukraine</border>
         <border>Ottoman Empire</border>
      </borders>
            <coordinates>
         <smallx>140</smallx>
         <smally>261</smally>
         <largex>187</largex>
         <largey>337</largey>
      </coordinates>
   </territory>
   
   
   <territory>
      <name>Morocco</name>
      <borders>
         <border>Spain</border>
         <border>French West Africa</border>
      </borders>
            <coordinates>
         <smallx>54</smallx>
         <smally>306</smally>
         <largex>77</largex>
         <largey>400</largey>
      </coordinates>
   </territory>
   <territory>
      <name>Liberia</name>
      <borders>
         <border>French West Africa</border>
      </borders>
            <coordinates>
         <smallx>29</smallx>
         <smally>411</smally>
         <largex>39</largex>
         <largey>538</largey>
           </coordinates>
   </territory>
   <territory>
      <name>French West Africa</name>
      <borders>
         <border>France</border>
         <border>Tripoli</border>
         <border>Morocco</border>
         <border>Liberia</border>
         <border>Nigeria</border>
         <border>Cameroon</border>
         <border>Congo</border>
         <border>Egypt and Sudan</border>
      </borders>      
            <coordinates>
         <smallx>50</smallx>
         <smally>353</smally>
         <largex>71</largex>
         <largey>463</largey>
      </coordinates>
   </territory>
   <territory>
      <name>Tripoli</name>
      <borders>
         <border>French West Africa</border>
         <border>Italy</border>
         <border>Egypt and Sudan</border>
      </borders>
            <coordinates>
         <smallx>120</smallx>
         <smally>323</smally>
         <largex>162</largex>
         <largey>423</largey>
      </coordinates>
   </territory>
   <territory>
      <name>Nigeria</name>
      <borders>
         <border>French West Africa</border>
         <border>Cameroon</border>
      </borders>   
            <coordinates>
         <smallx>99</smallx>
         <smally>387</smally>
         <largex>135</largex>
         <largey>508</largey>
      </coordinates>
   </territory>
   <territory>
      <name>Egypt and Sudan</name>
      <borders>
         <border>Tripoli</border>
         <border>French West Africa</border>
         <border>Abyssinia</border>
         <border>Ottoman Empire</border>
         <border>Congo</border>
         <border>British East Africa</border>
      </borders>   
            <coordinates>
         <smallx>161</smallx>
         <smally>374</smally>
         <largex>216</largex>
         <largey>491</largey>
      </coordinates>
   </territory>
   
   
   <territory>
      <name>Abyssinia</name>
      <borders>
         <border>Egypt and Sudan</border>
         <border>Somaliland</border>
         <border>British East Africa</border>
      </borders>
            <coordinates>
         <smallx>199</smallx>
         <smally>393</smally>
         <largex>266</largex>
         <largey>517</largey>
      </coordinates>
   </territory>
   <territory>
      <name>Somaliland</name>
      <borders>
         <border>Abyssinia</border>
         <border>British East Africa</border>
      </borders>
            <coordinates>
         <smallx>230</smallx>
         <smally>406</smally>
         <largex>308</largex>
         <largey>534</largey>
      </coordinates>
   </territory>
   <territory>
      <name>British East Africa</name>
      <borders>
         <border>Abyssinia</border>
         <border>Somaliland</border>
         <border>Congo</border>
         <border>German East Africa</border>
         <border>Egypt and Sudan</border>
      </borders>
            <coordinates>
         <smallx>179</smallx>
         <smally>413</smally>
         <largex>240</largex>
         <largey>543</largey>
      </coordinates>
   </territory>   
   
   <territory>
      <name>Cameroon</name>
      <borders>
         <border>Congo</border>
         <border>Nigeria</border>
         <border>French West Africa</border>
      </borders>      
            <coordinates>   
         <smallx>89</smallx>
         <smally>427</smally>
         <largex>125</largex>
         <largey>560</largey>
      </coordinates>
   </territory>
   <territory>
      <name>Congo</name>
      <borders>
         <border>Angola</border>
         <border>Cameroon</border>
         <border>French West Africa</border>
         <border>German East Africa</border>
         <border>Rhodesia</border>
         <border>Egypt and Sudan</border>
         <border>British East Africa</border>
      </borders>
            <coordinates>
         <smallx>145</smallx>
         <smally>423</smally>
         <largex>195</largex>
         <largey>557</largey>
      </coordinates>
   </territory>
   <territory>
      <name>Angola</name>
      <borders>
         <border>Congo</border>
         <border>Rhodesia</border>
         <border>German South West Africa</border>
      </borders>
            <coordinates>      
          <smallx>126</smallx>
         <smally>479</smally>
         <largex>169</largex>
         <largey>632</largey>

      </coordinates>
   </territory>
   <territory>
      <name>German South West Africa</name>
      <borders>
         <border>South Africa</border>
         <border>Rhodesia</border>
         <border>Angola</border>
      </borders>      
            <coordinates>
         <smallx>103</smallx>
         <smally>501</smally>
         <largex>138</largex>
         <largey>661</largey>
      </coordinates>
   </territory>
   <territory>
      <name>South Africa</name>
      <borders>
         <border>German South West Africa</border>
         <border>Rhodesia</border>
         <border>Portuguese East Africa</border>
      </borders>      
            <coordinates>
         <smallx>139</smallx>
         <smally>539</smally>
         <largex>187</largex>
         <largey>713</largey>
      </coordinates>
   </territory>
   <territory>
      <name>Rhodesia</name>
      <borders>
         <border>Congo</border>
         <border>Angola</border>
         <border>German South West Africa</border>
         <border>South Africa</border>
         <border>Portuguese East Africa</border>
         <border>German East Africa</border>
      </borders>      
            <coordinates>
         <smallx>156</smallx>
         <smally>491</smally>
         <largex>209</largex>
         <largey>648</largey>
      </coordinates>
   </territory>
   <territory>
      <name>Portuguese East Africa</name>
      <borders>
         <border>Madagascar</border>
         <border>Rhodesia</border>
         <border>South Africa</border>
         <border>German East Africa</border>
      </borders>
            <coordinates>
         <smallx>191</smallx>
         <smally>507</smally>
         <largex>260</largex>
         <largey>667</largey>
      </coordinates>
   </territory>
   <territory>
      <name>Madagascar</name>
      <borders>
         <border>Portuguese East Africa</border>
         <border>German East Africa</border>
      </borders>
            <coordinates>
         <smallx>225</smallx>
         <smally>493</smally>
         <largex>301</largex>
         <largey>649</largey>
      </coordinates>
   </territory>
   <territory>
      <name>German East Africa</name>
      <borders>
         <border>Madagascar</border>
         <border>Congo</border>
         <border>Rhodesia</border>
         <border>Portuguese East Africa</border>
         <border>British East Africa</border>
      </borders>
            <coordinates>
         <smallx>171</smallx>
         <smally>440</smally>
         <largex>228</largex>
         <largey>580</largey>
      </coordinates>
   </territory>
   
   
   <territory>
      <name>Ottoman Empire</name>
      <borders>
         <border>Balkans</border>
         <border>Caucasus</border>
         <border>Persia</border>
         <border>Arabia</border>
         <border>Egypt and Sudan</border>
      </borders>
            <coordinates>
         <smallx>201</smallx>
         <smally>284</smally>
         <largex>270</largex>
         <largey>370</largey>
      </coordinates>
   </territory>
   <territory>
      <name>Arabia</name>
      <borders>
         <border>Ottoman Empire</border>
         <border>Persia</border>
      </borders>
            <coordinates>
         <smallx>223</smallx>
         <smally>342</smally>
         <largex>299</largex>
         <largey>448</largey>
      </coordinates>
   </territory>
   <territory>
      <name>Persia</name>
      <borders>
         <border>Ottoman Empire</border>
         <border>Arabia</border>
         <border>Turkestan</border>
         <border>Afghanistan</border>
         <border>Caucasus</border>
         <border>India</border>
         </borders>
            <coordinates>
         <smallx>247</smallx>
         <smally>300</smally>
         <largex>330</largex>
         <largey>393</largey>
      </coordinates>
   </territory>
   <territory>
      <name>Afghanistan</name>
      <borders>
         <border>India</border>
         <border>Persia</border>
      </borders>
            <coordinates>
         <smallx>280</smallx>
         <smally>316</smally>
         <largex>374</largex>
         <largey>413</largey>
      </coordinates>
   </territory>
   
   
   <territory>
      <name>Finland</name>
      <borders>
         <border>Norway</border>
         <border>Sweden</border>
         <border>St. Petersburg</border>
      </borders>
            <coordinates>
         <smallx>163</smallx>
         <smally>131</smally>
         <largex>216</largex>
         <largey>167</largey>
      </coordinates>
   </territory>
   <territory>
      <name>St. Petersburg</name>
      <borders>
         <border>Norway</border>
         <border>Kazan</border>
         <border>Vilno</border>
         <border>Moscow</border>
         <border>Finland</border>
      </borders>
            <coordinates>
         <smallx>198</smallx>
         <smally>154</smally>
         <largex>268</largex>
         <largey>198</largey>
      </coordinates>
   </territory>
   <territory>
      <name>Warsaw</name>
      <borders>
         <border>Vilno</border>
         <border>Moscow</border>
         <border>Ukraine</border>
         <border>Germany</border>
         <border>Austria-Hungary</border>
      </borders>
            <coordinates>
         <smallx>162</smallx>
         <smally>196</smally>
         <largex>219</largex>
         <largey>254</largey>
      </coordinates>
   </territory>
   <territory>
      <name>Vilno</name>
      <borders>
         <border>St. Petersburg</border>
         <border>Warsaw</border>
         <border>Moscow</border>
         <border>Germany</border>
      </borders>
            <coordinates>
         <smallx>177</smallx>
         <smally>178</smally>
         <largex>238</largex>
         <largey>228</largey>
      </coordinates>
   </territory>
   <territory>
      <name>Ukraine</name>
      <borders>
         <border>Warsaw</border>
         <border>Moscow</border>   
         <border>Caucasus</border>
         <border>Austria-Hungary</border>
         <border>Balkans</border>         
      </borders>
            <coordinates>
         <smallx>184</smallx>
         <smally>231</smally>
         <largex>249</largex>
         <largey>300</largey>
      </coordinates>
   </territory>
   <territory>
      <name>Moscow</name>
      <borders>
         <border>Vilno</border>
         <border>Ukraine</border>
         <border>Kazan</border>
         <border>St. Petersburg</border>
         <border>Warsaw</border>
         <border>Caucasus</border>
      </borders>
            <coordinates>
         <smallx>203</smallx>
         <smally>190</smally>
         <largex>273</largex>
         <largey>246</largey>
      </coordinates>
   </territory>
   <territory>
      <name>Kazan</name>
      <borders>
         <border>St. Petersburg</border>
         <border>Moscow</border>
         <border>Caucasus</border>
      </borders>
            <coordinates>
         <smallx>236</smallx>
         <smally>181</smally>
         <largex>321</largex>
         <largey>234</largey>
      </coordinates>
   </territory>
   <territory>
      <name>Caucasus</name>
      <borders>
         <border>Kazan</border>
         <border>Turkestan</border>
         <border>Moscow</border>
         <border>Omsk</border>
         <border>Ukraine</border>
         <border>Ottoman Empire</border>
         <border>Persia</border>
      </borders>
            <coordinates>
         <smallx>213</smallx>
         <smally>240</smally>
         <largex>284</largex>
         <largey>313</largey>
      </coordinates>
   </territory>
   <territory>
      <name>Turkestan</name>
      <borders>
         <border>Caucasus</border>
         <border>Sinkiang</border>
         <border>Omsk</border>
         <border>Persia</border>
      </borders>
            <coordinates>
         <smallx>284</smallx>
         <smally>258</smally>
         <largex>381</largex>
         <largey>337</largey>
      </coordinates>
   </territory>
   <territory>
      <name>Omsk</name>
      <borders>
         <border>Irkutsk</border>
         <border>Turkestan</border>
         <border>Caucasus</border>
      </borders>
            <coordinates>   
         <smallx>305</smallx>
         <smally>185</smally>
         <largex>412</largex>
         <largey>238</largey>
      </coordinates>
   </territory>
   <territory>
      <name>Amur</name>
      <borders>
         <border>Karafuto</border>
         <border>Irkutsk</border>
         <border>Manchuria</border>
      </borders>
            <coordinates>
         <smallx>501</smallx>
         <smally>162</smally>
         <largex>670</largex>
         <largey>208</largey>
      </coordinates>
   </territory>
   <territory>
      <name>Irkutsk</name>
      <borders>
         <border>Omsk</border>
         <border>Amur</border>
      </borders>
            <coordinates>
         <smallx>422</smallx>
         <smally>122</smally>
         <largex>564</largex>
         <largey>154</largey>
      </coordinates>
   </territory>
   
   
   <territory>
      <name>Sinkiang</name>
      <borders>
         <border>Tibet</border>
         <border>Peking</border>
         <border>Mongolia</border>
         <border>Turkestan</border>
      </borders>
            <coordinates>
         <smallx>374</smallx>
         <smally>271</smally>
         <largex>503</largex>
         <largey>355</largey>
      </coordinates>
   </territory>
   <territory>
      <name>Tibet</name>
      <borders>
         <border>Sinkiang</border>
         <border>Peking</border>
      </borders>
            <coordinates>
         <smallx>345</smallx>
         <smally>283</smally>
         <largex>461</largex>
         <largey>370</largey>
      </coordinates>
   </territory>
   <territory>
      <name>Mongolia</name>
      <borders>
         <border>Sinkiang</border>
         <border>Peking</border>
      </borders>
            <coordinates>
         <smallx>410</smallx>
         <smally>226</smally>
         <largex>547</largex>
         <largey>295</largey>
      </coordinates>
   </territory>
   <territory>
      <name>Peking</name>
      <borders>
         <border>Sinkiang</border>
         <border>Tibet</border>
         <border>Canton</border>
         <border>Shanghai</border>
         <border>Manchuria</border>
         <border>Mongolia</border>
      </borders>
            <coordinates>      
          <smallx>415</smallx>
         <smally>298</smally>
         <largex>554</largex>
         <largey>390</largey>

      </coordinates>
   </territory>
   <territory>
      <name>Canton</name>
      <borders>
         <border>Peking</border>
         <border>Shanghai</border>
         <border>Indochina</border>
         <border>Burma</border>
         <border>Philippine Islands</border>
      </borders>
            <coordinates>      
         <smallx>406</smallx>
         <smally>334</smally>
         <largex>543</largex>
         <largey>437</largey>
      </coordinates>
   </territory>
   <territory>
      <name>Shanghai</name>
      <borders>
         <border>Peking</border>
         <border>Canton</border>
         <border>Taiwan</border>
      </borders>
            <coordinates>   
         <smallx>446</smallx>
         <smally>308</smally>
         <largex>593</largex>
         <largey>407</largey>
      </coordinates>
   </territory>
   <territory>
      <name>Manchuria</name>
      <borders>
         <border>Amur</border>
         <border>Korea</border>
         <border>Peking</border>
      </borders>
            <coordinates>   
         <smallx>475</smallx>
         <smally>231</smally>
         <largex>635</largex>
         <largey>301</largey>
      </coordinates>
   </territory>   


   <territory>
      <name>India</name>
      <borders>
         <border>Afghanistan</border>
         <border>Nepal</border>
         <border>Burma</border>
         <border>Persia</border>
      </borders>
                  <coordinates>
         <smallx>327</smallx>
         <smally>355</smally>
         <largex>437</largex>
         <largey>466</largey>
      </coordinates>
   </territory>
   <territory>
      <name>Nepal</name>
      <borders>
         <border>India</border>
      </borders>
            <coordinates>
         <smallx>340</smallx>
         <smally>315</smally>
         <largex>453</largex>
         <largey>414</largey>
      </coordinates>
   </territory>
   <territory>
      <name>Burma</name>
      <borders>
         <border>India</border>
         <border>Siam</border>
         <border>Indochina</border>
         <border>Canton</border>
      </borders>
            <coordinates>   
         <smallx>380</smallx>
         <smally>355</smally>
         <largex>508</largex>
         <largey>465</largey>
      </coordinates>
   </territory>
   <territory>
      <name>Siam</name>
      <borders>
         <border>Burma</border>
         <border>Indochina</border>
         <border>Sumatra</border>
         <border>Borneo</border>
      </borders>
            <coordinates>      
         <smallx>396</smallx>
         <smally>375</smally>
         <largex>529</largex>
         <largey>493</largey>

      </coordinates>
   </territory>
   <territory>
      <name>Indochina</name>
      <borders>
         <border>Canton</border>
         <border>Burma</border>
         <border>Siam</border>
      </borders>
            <coordinates>   
         <smallx>434</smallx>
         <smally>379</smally>
         <largex>580</largex>
         <largey>498</largey>
      </coordinates>
   </territory>   
   
   <territory>
      <name>Japan</name>
      <borders>
         <border>Karafuto</border>
         <border>Korea</border>
         <border>Taiwan</border>
      </borders>
            <coordinates>
         <smallx>532</smallx>
         <smally>292</smally>
         <largex>710</largex>
         <largey>381</largey>
      </coordinates>
   </territory>
   <territory>
      <name>Karafuto</name>
      <borders>
         <border>Amur</border>
         <border>Japan</border>
      </borders>
            <coordinates>
         <smallx>545</smallx>
         <smally>227</smally>
         <largex>728</largex>
         <largey>294</largey>
      </coordinates>
   </territory>
   <territory>
      <name>Korea</name>
      <borders>
         <border>Manchuria</border>
         <border>Japan</border>
      </borders>
            <coordinates>
         <smallx>493</smallx>
         <smally>281</smally>
         <largex>657</largex>
         <largey>369</largey>
      </coordinates>
   </territory>
   <territory>
      <name>Taiwan</name>
      <borders>
         <border>Japan</border>
         <border>Shanghai</border>
      </borders>
            <coordinates>   
         <smallx>486</smallx>
         <smally>336</smally>
         <largex>649</largex>
         <largey>442</largey>
      </coordinates>
   </territory>


   <territory>
      <name>Philippine Islands</name>
      <borders>
         <border>Canton</border>
         <border>Borneo</border>
         <border>New Guinea</border>
      </borders>
            <coordinates>   
         <smallx>498</smallx>
         <smally>405</smally>
         <largex>661</largex>
         <largey>531</largey>
      </coordinates>
   </territory>
   <territory>
      <name>Borneo</name>
      <borders>
         <border>Philippine Islands</border>
         <border>Sumatra</border>
         <border>Java</border>
         <border>Siam</border>
      </borders>
            <coordinates>   
         <smallx>438</smallx>
         <smally>436</smally>
         <largex>584</largex>
         <largey>573</largey>
      </coordinates>
   </territory>
   <territory>
      <name>Sumatra</name>
      <borders>
         <border>Borneo</border>
         <border>Siam</border>
         <border>Java</border>
      </borders>
            <coordinates>   
         <smallx>379</smallx>
         <smally>445</smally>
         <largex>506</largex>
         <largey>585</largey>
      </coordinates>
   </territory>
   <territory>
      <name>Java</name>
      <borders>
         <border>Borneo</border>
         <border>Sumatra</border>
         <border>Australia</border>
      </borders>
            <coordinates>
         <smallx>432</smallx>
         <smally>484</smally>
         <largex>577</largex>
         <largey>636</largey>
      </coordinates>
   </territory>
   <territory>
      <name>New Guinea</name>
      <borders>
         <border>Philippine Islands</border>
         <border>Australia</border>
      </borders>
            <coordinates>   
         <smallx>542</smallx>
         <smally>438</smally>
         <largex>724</largex>
         <largey>579</largey>
      </coordinates>
   </territory>
   <territory>
      <name>Australia</name>
      <borders>
         <border>Java</border>
         <border>New Guinea</border>
         <border>New Zealand</border>
      </borders>
            <coordinates>
         <smallx>511</smallx>
         <smally>517</smally>
         <largex>682</largex>
         <largey>682</largey>
      </coordinates>
   </territory>
   <territory>
      <name>New Zealand</name>
      <borders>
         <border>Australia</border>
      </borders>
            <coordinates>   
         <smallx>580</smallx>
         <smally>541</smally>
         <largex>773</largex>
         <largey>717</largey>
      </coordinates>
   </territory>


   <territory>
      <name>Naval Superiority</name>
      <borders>
      </borders>
       <bombardments>
       <bombardment>Indochina</bombardment>
         <bombardment>Madagascar</bombardment>
         <bombardment>French West Africa</bombardment>
         <bombardment>Canton</bombardment>
         <bombardment>India</bombardment>
         <bombardment>South Africa</bombardment>
         <bombardment>Egypt and Sudan</bombardment>
         <bombardment>British East Africa</bombardment>
         <bombardment>Sumatra</bombardment>
         <bombardment>Java</bombardment>
         <bombardment>Nigeria</bombardment>
         <bombardment>Cameroon</bombardment>
         <bombardment>German South West Africa</bombardment>
         <bombardment>German East Africa</bombardment>
         <bombardment>Angola</bombardment>
         <bombardment>Portuguese East Africa</bombardment>
         <bombardment>Somaliland</bombardment>         
         <bombardment>Tripoli</bombardment>
        </bombardments>
            <coordinates>   
         <smallx>338</smallx>
         <smally>510</smally>
         <largex>451</largex>
         <largey>672</largey>
      </coordinates>
      <neutral killer="yes">4</neutral>
   </territory>

</map>


Caesius wrote:-It's very easy to take and hold Japan if at least two of your armies start there, especially if Amur, Manchuria, and/or Shanghai are held by neutral armies.

Manchuria, Shanghai, and the Japanese territories have all been coded as starts - none will start neutral in 1v1 games. And as all six of these territories are attributed to different starting positions, the most that one player can start with in a game is four. Hope this solves the problem.
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Re: Eastern Hemisphere, Gameplay Changes!! [Beta]

Postby xelabale on Sat May 02, 2009 9:12 am

Me likey lots - thanks Oaktown. İt's truly a great map, it gives me certain unholy urges when İ look at the alps - such graphics
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Re: Eastern Hemisphere [Beta]

Postby the.killing.44 on Sat May 02, 2009 10:24 am

oaktown wrote:Shanghai is now a part of the UK Empire, representing Hong Kong, and is can be bombarded by the ship. This won't make the UK Empire any easier to hold (sorry brits), but the Chinese Empire can now be broken remotely. I think this is a key change.

You mean Canton?

.44
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Re: Eastern Hemisphere [Beta]

Postby sailorseal on Sat May 02, 2009 10:28 am

the.killing.44 wrote:
oaktown wrote:Shanghai is now a part of the UK Empire, representing Hong Kong, and is can be bombarded by the ship. This won't make the UK Empire any easier to hold (sorry brits), but the Chinese Empire can now be broken remotely. I think this is a key change.

You mean Canton?

.44

Yes he means Canton
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Re: Eastern Hemisphere, Gameplay Changes!! [Beta]

Postby TaCktiX on Sun May 03, 2009 12:55 am

Good thing it's Canton, as I have nearly 40 armies there in the game of Eastern Hemisphere I'm playing with him. If it's Shanghai I might need to do some heavy duty deployment to make it more than the 3 presently sitting there.

Overall, good changes here Oaktown.
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Re: Eastern Hemisphere, Gameplay Changes!! [Beta]

Postby oaktown on Sun May 03, 2009 1:04 am

yes, canton... easy to mix up, as all those chinese territories look alike.

(that was way too easy)
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Re: Eastern Hemisphere [Beta]

Postby BaldAdonis on Sun May 03, 2009 1:08 am

oaktown wrote: Each of the eight starting positions now starts with two of these territories in addition to a European territory.

Does this mean games will start with 30~ neutrals?
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Re: Eastern Hemisphere [Beta]

Postby oaktown on Sun May 03, 2009 2:56 am

BaldAdonis wrote:
oaktown wrote: Each of the eight starting positions now starts with two of these territories in addition to a European territory.

Does this mean games will start with 30~ neutrals?

No.

(Ask me why you think it will and I can set you straight.)
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Re: Eastern Hemisphere, Gameplay Changes!! [Beta]

Postby AndyDufresne on Sun May 03, 2009 6:17 pm

Beta-Update sent to Lack. He's been slacking on his Map duties lately, so I'll chide him tomorrow for this, Oceania, Land and Sea, and the maps still awaiting Beta-Release.


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Re: Eastern Hemisphere, Gameplay Changes!! [Beta]

Postby Hopscotcher on Wed May 06, 2009 11:36 pm

This may or may not have been touched upon. Got to say I LOVE this map!

I played a game and could not fort from Naval Superiority. I honestly kind of like that idea, but if it could be stated somewhere on the map, it might help others who play it.

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Re: Eastern Hemisphere, Gameplay Changes!! [Beta]

Postby Thezzaruz on Thu May 07, 2009 3:30 am

Hopscotcher wrote:I played a game and could not fort from Naval Superiority. I honestly kind of like that idea, but if it could be stated somewhere on the map, it might help others who play it.


NS cannot attack any country only bombard and you can only reinforce via attack routes, direct effect of the rules (look at the instructions page).
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Re: Eastern Hemisphere [Beta]

Postby iancanton on Fri May 08, 2009 6:08 am

the.killing.44 wrote:
oaktown wrote:Shanghai is now a part of the UK Empire, representing Hong Kong, and is can be bombarded by the ship. This won't make the UK Empire any easier to hold (sorry brits), but the Chinese Empire can now be broken remotely. I think this is a key change.

You mean Canton?

.44

oak

i think this disruption to the gameplay is not only entirely unnecessary (except in rhodesia, where the change is good and logical), but threatens to tip the scales in a way that will turn out not to be beneficial.

i've analysed the last 10 2-player casual public sequential games that have actually finished as at time of writing (Game 4816807 to Game 4832818). there were 671 such completed 1v1 games, compared with 112 4-player singles and 73 4-player doubles, so i’ve focussed only on what is by far the most popular format for this map.

of these 10, 5 were won by player 1 and 5 by player 2. zones for which bonuses were received by the eventual winner in rounds 1 to 4 were: portuguese 4 times, horn 3 times, french 3 times, italian 3 times, north africa twice, dutch twice, german once, southern asia once, oceania once and japanese once. equivalent bonuses received by the loser were oceania twice, italian once, dutch once and japanese once. chinese, russian, europe, southern africa, middle east and british were not received. the dutch bonus was dropped once, to player 2, who won. where no bonuses were received by the winner in rounds 1 to 4, i counted the first bonus that he did receive.

the outstanding fact of these finished games is the sheer variety of winning methods, none of which involves securing the chinese bonus. also contrary to expectation, the oceania and japanese bonuses are at least as much in evidence on the loser’s side as the winner’s.

i therefore ask u not to load the latest revision to the xml, since i do not regard it as an improvement.

incidentally, the start positions do not work as i expected, so that each player receives 24 regions to start, instead of the intended 23. do u know why? is there an easy fix?

ian. :)
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Re: Eastern Hemisphere [Beta]

Postby oaktown on Mon May 11, 2009 11:27 pm

iancanton wrote:i think this disruption to the gameplay is not only entirely unnecessary (except in rhodesia, where the change is good and logical), but threatens to tip the scales in a way that will turn out not to be beneficial.

i've analysed the last 10 2-player casual public sequential games that have actually finished as at time of writing... the outstanding fact of these finished games is the sheer variety of winning methods, none of which involves securing the chinese bonus. also contrary to expectation, the oceania and japanese bonuses are at least as much in evidence on the loser’s side as the winner’s.

I would contend that a two player game has far less to do with scoring the ideal part of the map than do games with more players. Two player games are going to be all about where the 21 neutrals are on the map and who can lay into their opponent most effectively. In the 1v1 game that I played asia happened to start largely neutral, so the only action that took place there was last round mop-up.

Larger games that I have been in have seen it extremely hard to break Asia, since the routes into/out of Asia are all bottlenecks (as they geographically should be). A single bombardment reflects the historical British influence in the region, which is really what this map is about - European influence abroad and what it takes to break it.

That said, I'm open to further discussion on this matter.

iancanton wrote:incidentally, the start positions do not work as i expected, so that each player receives 24 regions to start, instead of the intended 23. do u know why? is there an easy fix?

The eight coded neutrals change the formula. None of those eight are assigned neutral, thus the # of starts in a 1v1 will be ((69-8)÷3) + (8÷2) = 24. Coding 16 more territories as start positions really screws this up even more - I hadn't thought about that. I may drop that to 8 additional asian starts, which should be just enough to mix up Japan, Oceania, and China, and still provide the possibility of some neutral drops. The new numbers will be ((69-16)÷3) + (16÷2) = 25... a slightly better start number, but anybody who plays 1v1 on a big map is asking for hurt anyway. Expect an update/edit soon.

Edit: And here it is; 16 starting positions, paired as follows:
<positions>
<position>
<territory>Great Britain</territory>
<territory>Australia</territory>
</position>
<position>
<territory>Germany</territory>
<territory>New Guinea</territory>
</position>
<position>
<territory>Netherlands</territory>
<territory>Shanghai</territory>
</position>
<position>
<territory>Austria-Hungary</territory>
<territory>Korea</territory>
</position>
<position>
<territory>Italy</territory>
<territory>Karafuto</territory>
</position>
<position>
<territory>France</territory>
<territory>Borneo</territory>
</position>
<position>
<territory>Portugal</territory>
<territory>Manchuria</territory>
</position>
<position>
<territory>Spain</territory>
<territory>Philippine Islands</territory>
</position>
</positions>

The new file has been uploaded to the same file location, so if lack hasn't downloaded the file yet we're golden... but I'll let andy know about the change.
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Re: Eastern Hemisphere, Gameplay Changes!! [Beta]

Postby apb23 on Tue May 12, 2009 7:34 pm

I personally think that this map needs no more adjustments...I played it fairly recently in a 1v1 and found it to be great.
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Re: Eastern Hemisphere, Gameplay Changes!! [Beta]

Postby iancanton on Wed May 13, 2009 8:37 pm

part of the reason why hardly anyone deploys in europe in a multiplayer game is because of the start positions there: it's likely that no-one has more than 3 or 4 out of the 12 regions, in which case just about any other bonus is easier. more on this once i'm back from holiday. happy conquering in the meantime!

ian. :)
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Re: Eastern Hemisphere, Gameplay Changes!! [Beta]

Postby oaktown on Wed May 13, 2009 10:01 pm

iancanton wrote:part of the reason why hardly anyone deploys in europe in a multiplayer game is because of the start positions there: it's likely that no-one has more than 3 or 4 out of the 12 regions, in which case just about any other bonus is easier. more on this once i'm back from holiday. happy conquering in the meantime!

I'm willing to discuss eliminating some or all of the starts altogether, but months ago when it was decided to code europe as starts we had good reasons for doing so. While it does make conquering Europe a bitch, it guarantees that a variety of players will have access to the Colonial Powers bonuses.

Here's a thought... what if we coded starts, but coded fewer than eight? Because in a seven or eight player game on this map it is already highly unlikely that a singl player is going to score a dominating start in either europe or the far east. Eight player games start with only 8 terits each, seven player games start with 9, and six players start with 11. A good start in Europe would be, what, 6 of the 12 European territories? There's less than a .02% chance (yes that's right, less than 1%) of this happening. And there's less than a 2% chance that any one player would score three or more of the six european imperial powers.

But as soon as you get to six players, there's a 5% chance of somebody getting three or more European powers, and about 10% chance of scoring half of Japan... so maybe we just code six starts, with two territories per start? The six powers, and six eastern countries.

that would mean... umm... 25 starting territories/player in a 1v1, instead of 23 if we had no starts at all. (Whatever - 1v1s are a joke on big maps anyway, as I've said many times.) Adding starts has no effect on games of other sizes.

Anyway, the earlier changes have been forwarded to Andy. Changing the starts is easy as it has zero effect on games already underway. We can has this out when iancanton is back from what I'm sure is an alcoholiday.
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Re: Eastern Hemisphere, Gameplay Changes!! [Beta]

Postby Shertenn on Sun May 17, 2009 6:10 am

Just finishing my first game.. and had some observations..

1. Naval Superiority is pretty useless as far as I can see. One player in ur game
took it and bombarded 3 colonies.. costing my partner and I builds for India and
SE Asia.. okay.. but it cost him whatever he needed to do that,, and he was left with
6 on the ship.. which disappeared. Sooo.. I figure we came out ahead.

2. I am rather surprised that there is no sea movement between the Home country and a colony or between colonies. This is very a-historical, as everybody.. the Brits especially..
transferred troops (from India to the Sudan.. England to S. Africa vs the Boers..
and everybody to Peking for the Boxer rebellion.. )

I'd like to see something like "In Transit" boxes.. you could reinforce from any port to
a 'in transit' box.. and from the box to any port you own. (No amphibious assaults)

Some of the territorial groups could be better colored..
the pale pastels need to be not quite so pale..:-)

Other than that.. it's been a fun game so far..

Just my 2 cents..

Jim
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Re: Eastern Hemisphere, Gameplay Changes!! [Beta]

Postby AlbroShlo on Sun May 17, 2009 2:30 pm

I'm playing in game 4794953,http://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=4794953&full_log=Y and the Naval Superiority Spot took out a player because the only men he had left were on that territ so now the game is stuck in limbo where it is nobodys turn.

please help
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Re: Eastern Hemisphere, Gameplay Changes!! [Beta]

Postby Caesius on Mon May 18, 2009 12:06 am

Shertenn wrote:1. Naval Superiority is pretty useless as far as I can see. One player in ur game
took it and bombarded 3 colonies.. costing my partner and I builds for India and
SE Asia.. okay.. but it cost him whatever he needed to do that,, and he was left with
6 on the ship.. which disappeared. Sooo.. I figure we came out ahead.


You only see Naval Superiority as useless because you haven't figured out how to use it yet.

If you take Naval Superiority, you're supposed to bombard until you have no armies left. If you have armies left over and there's no enemy territories to bombard, then just bombard neutral territories next to your own troops so you can take them later.

2. I am rather surprised that there is no sea movement between the Home country and a colony or between colonies. This is very a-historical, as everybody.. the Brits especially..
transferred troops (from India to the Sudan.. England to S. Africa vs the Boers..
and everybody to Peking for the Boxer rebellion.. )


Naval Superiority does this, but if you didn't have a presence in the area in the first place i.e. an adjacent colony to conquer the 1 neutral then you shouldn't be able to occupy the area. Realistically speaking.
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Re: Eastern Hemisphere, Gameplay Changes!! [Beta]

Postby oaktown on Mon May 18, 2009 12:21 am

We went over all of this months ago... we discussed sea units that could occupy colonies, trading companies that could be taken back by the colonial states, etc. The basic system we have in place came after weeks and weeks of discussion, and no major change will be made now. If you don't show up, you don't get to make the rules.

As for the bug, it was noted in Sugs and Bugs a few weeks ago and has been brought to the attention of the site admins.
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Re: Eastern Hemisphere, Gameplay Changes!! [Beta]

Postby iancanton on Tue May 19, 2009 3:11 pm

oaktown wrote:But as soon as you get to six players, there's a 5% chance of somebody getting three or more European powers, and about 10% chance of scoring half of Japan... so maybe we just code six starts, with two territories per start? The six powers, and six eastern countries.

that would mean... umm... 25 starting territories/player in a 1v1, instead of 23 if we had no starts at all. (Whatever - 1v1s are a joke on big maps anyway, as I've said many times.) Adding starts has no effect on games of other sizes.

6 sets of 2 start positions is a rather weak tool in 1v1 for the purpose of preventing player 1 from starting with a 3-region empire bonus because 8 of the 12 possible start positions are allocated normally, just as if they're ordinary regions.

i suggest exactly 3 sets of 2 start positions, being an italian with a portuguese colony, a dutch with an italian colony and a portuguese with a dutch colony, with every other region being normal. this results, unless i'm mistaken (i'd better ask yeti_c for the definitive answer!), in 23 total starting regions (including 2 start positions) for each player. dropping the 3-region empire bonuses will thereby be made impossible in 1v1.

by the way, it wasn't an alcoholiday - my other half made sure of that!

ian. :)
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Re: Eastern Hemisphere, Gameplay Changes!! [Beta]

Postby vonunruh on Tue May 19, 2009 8:40 pm

Oaktown, I thought you were going to change the map and make Canton British? Doesn't look like that has happened yet.

As I have continued to play this board (as is) my opinion has become more firmly entrenched...this board does not work for 7 or 8 players. 2 or max. 3 players have a shot for the eastern continents, while everyone else is left scrambling fruitlessly for the african colonies. British and French are impossible to get. There is a whole lot of wilderness to get (pointlessly) lost in in Europe and Russia. Maybe playing spoils would make it more feasible, I dunno. Something needs to be done to make the colonial bonuses easier to achieve in large games.

Just to clarify my earlier point about the continents...one player is likely to get the Middle East, one will get Japan, and one will be working on Oceania and/or S Asia. so that leaves huge swaths of the board with no strategic purpose (dead zones). the players trying to get German, Portuguese, and Italian are killing each other for tiny little bonuses. And because those same players are the ones entrenched in the west, they are the ones likely to be in a position to get naval superiority, which is really hard when you are only getting 3 a turn. Which makes it that much harder to stop the snowball effect in the east. See where I am going with this?
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Re: Eastern Hemisphere, Gameplay Changes!! [Beta]

Postby yeti_c on Tue May 19, 2009 11:40 pm

iancanton wrote:
oaktown wrote:But as soon as you get to six players, there's a 5% chance of somebody getting three or more European powers, and about 10% chance of scoring half of Japan... so maybe we just code six starts, with two territories per start? The six powers, and six eastern countries.

that would mean... umm... 25 starting territories/player in a 1v1, instead of 23 if we had no starts at all. (Whatever - 1v1s are a joke on big maps anyway, as I've said many times.) Adding starts has no effect on games of other sizes.

6 sets of 2 start positions is a rather weak tool in 1v1 for the purpose of preventing player 1 from starting with a 3-region empire bonus because 8 of the 12 possible start positions are allocated normally, just as if they're ordinary regions.

i suggest exactly 3 sets of 2 start positions, being an italian with a portuguese colony, a dutch with an italian colony and a portuguese with a dutch colony, with every other region being normal. this results, unless i'm mistaken (i'd better ask yeti_c for the definitive answer!), in 23 total starting regions (including 2 start positions) for each player. dropping the 3-region empire bonuses will thereby be made impossible in 1v1.

by the way, it wasn't an alcoholiday - my other half made sure of that!

ian. :)


I think you're forgetting that <starting positions> aren't divided by 3 for 1v1 games.

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