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Re: Luxembourg - map on page 1 [I,Gp,Gr]

Postby ZeakCytho on Wed May 28, 2008 9:00 pm

I think it's a bit confusing as it is. I wasn't sure at first if Luxembourg City was part of the Letzebuerg bonus. Personally, I'd just make the border between the city and Letzebuerg the same as the border between all the other continents. Gameplay is more important to me than preserving a small bit of reality.

Alternatively, you could make Lux. City part of the Letzebuerg bonus. I think the current continent bonuses could stay the same even if you do that, since LC comes with it's own +1 bonus. It'd be like a subcontinent.
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Re: Luxembourg - map on page 1 [I,Gp,Gr]

Postby Ruben Cassar on Thu May 29, 2008 2:59 am

ZeakCytho wrote:I think it's a bit confusing as it is. I wasn't sure at first if Luxembourg City was part of the Letzebuerg bonus. Personally, I'd just make the border between the city and Letzebuerg the same as the border between all the other continents. Gameplay is more important to me than preserving a small bit of reality.

Alternatively, you could make Lux. City part of the Letzebuerg bonus. I think the current continent bonuses could stay the same even if you do that, since LC comes with it's own +1 bonus. It'd be like a subcontinent.


Come on it's clear enough from the mini map and the legend. They have two different bonuses (see the numbers 3 and 1 on the mini map) and it states that Luxembourg City is a standalone territory. Some people also suggested I remove that statement because they said it was already too obvious but I kept it. It also has a different colour! I won't be changing it. This is not a complicated map...it's one of the most simple maps on CC.
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Re: Luxembourg - map on page 1 & 10 [I,Gp,Gr]

Postby ZeakCytho on Thu May 29, 2008 3:59 pm

So then why have the different-style border at all? I think having it to "preserve reality" isn't a very good reason in this case. Normally I'm all for realistic maps, but the map would be much simpler if LC was treated as its own continent with the same style as every other continent. Besides, the current border doesn't indicate that LC is part of Letzebuerg in real life very well at all.

But if no one else has a problem with this, I guess just leave it alone.
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Re: Luxembourg - map on page 1 & 10 [I,Gp,Gr]

Postby AndyDufresne on Thu May 29, 2008 6:51 pm

I am somewhat in agreement with Zeak, but I lean more toward the consistency argument (Though I've never been a fan of the continent separations as they are in this map, in any map!)

Also, Lux. City seems to oddly look visually higher (read: raised) than the southern blue continent. Same possibly could be said for Mull. too.

The text "Map Legend" seems redunant and only there to fill empty space. All the dead area this map...oddly draws me to look at it...because nothing is going on it. Seems a like a wasteland, and it's what I first notice. After I notice it, I'm pushed away by it all. I'm sure someone mentioned something about a texture...or really anything...to lessen the "generic feel" of the dead space surrounding the board...and the over all genericness.


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Re: Luxembourg - map on page 1 & 10 [I,Gp,Gr]

Postby Ruben Cassar on Thu May 29, 2008 7:28 pm

AndyDufresne wrote:I am somewhat in agreement with Zeak, but I lean more toward the consistency argument (Though I've never been a fan of the continent separations as they are in this map, in any map!)

Also, Lux. City seems to oddly look visually higher (read: raised) than the southern blue continent. Same possibly could be said for Mull. too.

The text "Map Legend" seems redunant and only there to fill empty space. All the dead area this map...oddly draws me to look at it...because nothing is going on it. Seems a like a wasteland, and it's what I first notice. After I notice it, I'm pushed away by it all. I'm sure someone mentioned something about a texture...or really anything...to lessen the "generic feel" of the dead space surrounding the board...and the over all genericness.


--Andy


That's strange. I used the same settings for all regions so it must be some kind of optical illusion.

About the map being a bit empty, the main target of this map is simplicity. I want the map to be simple and the focus to be on Luxembourg...the playable area. That's why I did not add any bells and whistles to the surrounding countries, because I don't believe the map needs them. I think it's quite a relaxing map to look at.
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Re: Luxembourg - map on page 1 & 10 [I,Gp,Gr]

Postby AndyDufresne on Thu May 29, 2008 7:39 pm

I agree, simplicity is something that can work wonderfully (a number of maps on the website show that), but I see this more as dead genericness...which is different than simplicity.

A cooking metaphor, if I may. Cooking naked (without all sorts of spices, sauces, seasonings, added extras) can produce some of the best and most delightful tastes if done properly---but when a few errors are made, the food can turn bland and rather unapetizing.

In any case, You and I rarely seem to agree on graphics, Ruben. :) This I know, going all the way back to the your Malta map's beginnnings! But I appreciate the civility we share, if in disagreement.


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Re: Luxembourg - map on page 1 & 10 [I,Gp,Gr]

Postby The Viking on Fri May 30, 2008 6:15 am

I agree, I think it looks a bit too empty, especially in that big part of Germany.
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Re: Luxembourg - map on page 1 & 10 [I,Gp,Gr]

Postby Ruben Cassar on Fri May 30, 2008 9:28 am

AndyDufresne wrote:I agree, simplicity is something that can work wonderfully (a number of maps on the website show that), but I see this more as dead genericness...which is different than simplicity.

A cooking metaphor, if I may. Cooking naked (without all sorts of spices, sauces, seasonings, added extras) can produce some of the best and most delightful tastes if done properly---but when a few errors are made, the food can turn bland and rather unapetizing.

In any case, You and I rarely seem to agree on graphics, Ruben. :) This I know, going all the way back to the your Malta map's beginnnings! But I appreciate the civility we share, if in disagreement.


--Andy


Thanks for that final comment Andy. I know that our views vis-a-vis graphics are often diametrically opposite but I always appreciate the constructive criticism you give me.

In fact you convinced me to experiment a bit with some textures for the adjacent countries even though I don't see the need for them. If I feel the end result is better I will post an image in the coming days when I manage to get some free time.
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Re: Luxembourg - map on page 1 & 10 [I,Gp,Gr]

Postby Ruben Cassar on Fri May 30, 2008 2:17 pm

I have added some textures to the bordering states and put up a poll. I kept the textures subtle on purpose because I don't want to affect the simplicity of the map or detract the attention from Luxembourg itself.

Bordering States Texture Poll

1.11a
Image

1.11b
Image

1.11c
Image

1.11d
Image

1.11e
Image
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Re: Luxembourg - VOTE IN POLL on page 1 & 12 [I,Gp,Gr]

Postby ZeakCytho on Fri May 30, 2008 5:54 pm

I like the style of 1.11e the best, so I voted for it, but I'd prefer it if the texture were a bit more subtle - make the texture layer less opaque.
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Re: Luxembourg - VOTE IN POLL on page 1 & 12 [I,Gp,Gr]

Postby Ruben Cassar on Fri May 30, 2008 6:08 pm

ZeakCytho wrote:I like the style of 1.11e the best, so I voted for it, but I'd prefer it if the texture were a bit more subtle - make the texture layer less opaque.


Point noted. If 1.11e wins the poll I will make that change.
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Re: Luxembourg - VOTE IN POLL on page 1 & 12 [I,Gp,Gr]

Postby pamoa on Fri May 30, 2008 10:24 pm

If you want to add texture try to use google earth image as grey trasparent shade but for christ sake do use those plaster effects they are just awful #-o
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Re: Luxembourg - VOTE IN POLL on page 1 & 12 [I,Gp,Gr]

Postby Ruben Cassar on Sat May 31, 2008 3:18 am

pamoa wrote:If you want to add texture try to use google earth image as grey trasparent shade but for christ sake do use those plaster effects they are just awful #-o


No, I don't think that's the way to go. We are not talking about the main country here but the surrounding areas which honestly are not important in my opinion.

Besides why should I use google earth if the style of the map is not oriented that way? It would contrast with the style used for Luxembourg itself.
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Re: Luxembourg - VOTE IN POLL on page 1 & 12 [I,Gp,Gr]

Postby gimil on Sun Jun 01, 2008 5:30 pm

1.11d is the one I voted for but any of the textures need to be a little less intense to work.
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Re: Luxembourg - VOTE IN POLL on page 1 & 12 [I,Gp,Gr]

Postby Ruben Cassar on Sun Jun 01, 2008 5:41 pm

gimil wrote:1.11d is the one I voted for but any of the textures need to be a little less intense to work.


Define intense. :)

Does that mean subtle like Zeak said?
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Re: Luxembourg - VOTE IN POLL on page 1 & 12 [I,Gp,Gr]

Postby gimil on Tue Jun 03, 2008 7:31 am

Ruben Cassar wrote:
gimil wrote:1.11d is the one I voted for but any of the textures need to be a little less intense to work.


Define intense. :)

Does that mean subtle like Zeak said?


Yeah, make hte texture more subtle :)
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Re: Luxembourg - VOTE IN POLL on page 1 & 12 [I,Gp,Gr]

Postby MrBenn on Tue Jun 03, 2008 7:50 am

Ruben,

I've gone for 11e - I think it is the most understated of the options - and the texture should be exactly that, understated and subtle.

On another note, the border of Lux. City is in a different style from the other regions, and should probably be amended.

I'm not convinced that Ardennes and Letzeberg are both worth +3 - Letzeberg is pretty impossible to hold, and I'd be tempted to up it to +4.

The whole map is going to be pretty open, although I think the strongest area is going to be Ardennes... it has +3, and can be defended by two terrs. If you get a drop there with Troisvierges, then without crappy dice, I'd imagine you're going to be hard to beat.

How many neutrals do you envisage starting on Lux. City - I'm imagining a standard 3?
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Re: Luxembourg - VOTE IN POLL on page 1 & 12 [I,Gp,Gr]

Postby Ruben Cassar on Tue Jun 03, 2008 8:23 am

MrBenn wrote:Ruben,

I've gone for 11e - I think it is the most understated of the options - and the texture should be exactly that, understated and subtle.

On another note, the border of Lux. City is in a different style from the other regions, and should probably be amended.

I'm not convinced that Ardennes and Letzeberg are both worth +3 - Letzeberg is pretty impossible to hold, and I'd be tempted to up it to +4.

The whole map is going to be pretty open, although I think the strongest area is going to be Ardennes... it has +3, and can be defended by two terrs. If you get a drop there with Troisvierges, then without crappy dice, I'd imagine you're going to be hard to beat.

How many neutrals do you envisage starting on Lux. City - I'm imagining a standard 3?


Ben all these points have been addressed in previous posts. Check them out mate.

As a small recap the bonus for Letzebuerg was 4 before but got reduced to 3 after much debate. Lux City gets 3 neutrals, there was a poll on this as well.
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Re: Luxembourg - VOTE IN POLL on page 1 & 12 [I,Gp,Gr]

Postby rocky mountain on Tue Jun 03, 2008 9:00 pm

MrBenn wrote:...then without crappy dice, I'd imagine you're going to be hard to beat.

on any map with good dice you're going to be hard to beat...
And i voted for 11.d
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Re: Luxembourg - VOTE IN POLL on page 1 & 12 [I,Gp,Gr]

Postby gimil on Wed Jun 04, 2008 4:25 pm

Which texture do you prefer for the bordering states? (see page 1 or 12)

Poll ended at Wed Jun 04, 2008 7:18 pm

1.11a (No Texture)
7
35%

1.11b
0
No votes

1.11c
2
10%

1.11d
6
30%

1.11e
5
25%


Total votes : 20
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Re: Luxembourg - VOTE IN POLL on page 1 & 12 [I,Gp,Gr]

Postby Ruben Cassar on Wed Jun 04, 2008 4:35 pm

Since the poll was so close I decided to go a way in between 1.11a and 1.11d. I made the texture of 1.11d more subtle.

Version 1.12
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Re: Luxembourg - map on page 1 & 13 [I,Gp,Gr]

Postby t-o-m on Thu Jun 05, 2008 1:20 pm

now that looks good ;)

EDIT:
i would quite like to see something like this on the mini-map area:

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thats just me though.
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Re: Luxembourg - map on page 1 & 13 [I,Gp,Gr]

Postby Ruben Cassar on Thu Jun 05, 2008 2:11 pm

t-o-m wrote:now that looks good ;)

EDIT:
i would quite like to see something like this on the mini-map area:

thats just me though.


Yes, it's a nice alternative. But I think I'm going to stick with the original.
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Re: Luxembourg - map on page 1 & 13 [I,Gp,Gr]

Postby onbekende on Thu Jun 05, 2008 4:41 pm

nice map mate!

small advice: why not make Lëtzebuerg +4, its central, 4 terr to defend, the person who actually gets it and can cash in with it next turn should be in a win situation already.
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Re: Luxembourg - map on page 1 & 13 [I,Gp,Gr]

Postby rocky mountain on Thu Jun 05, 2008 5:48 pm

i beleive there haqs been discussion on that and they resolved to keep it at +3.i think its fine.
i like the texture now. its looking better all the time! :)
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