Egypt: Nubia [Quenched]

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Re: NUBIAN EGYPT V3 - legend explanation

Postby cairnswk on Mon Apr 28, 2008 5:19 am

InkL0sed wrote:I have the same problem with "4 start neutral" -- not quite sure what that means.

I like the idea of +1 for each Gold Mine, but not so much the majority held bonus. Maybe the Gold Mines should just start with 1 neutral on each?


The map below might explain that further/better.

Also, maybe I'm just slow (it's late at night, maybe that's what it is) I'm not sure I understand what the cataracts are. Are they impassables? If so, what are they blocking exactly? :?


no the map doesn't say amything about them being impassables or passables. Simply they are a geographic feature of the Nile river that should not be left out of any map, and yes they do divide the river into sections which i have used in the legend to create continents. :)

Version 3
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Re: NUBIAN EGYPT V3 (P3) - bonus explanation gold mines

Postby bryguy on Mon Apr 28, 2008 7:27 am

1)The dows are really bright and crappy looking
2) The territory colors are to bright
3) You can hardly read 'Swenet (Elaphentine)' at the top
4) Whats a cataract?
5) Edited out cause i realized that i was reading the map wrong for this one...... :oops:
6) The background texture is really bugging me....
7) You say '4 Gold Mines start as neutrals' but it looks like it says '+ Gold Mines start as neutrals'
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Re: NUBIAN EGYPT V3 (P3) - bonus explanation gold mines

Postby ZeakCytho on Mon Apr 28, 2008 2:32 pm

I agree the the old dows were better. Also, the territories of Cataracts 1, 2, and 3 are too bright on the left side. I'd turn down the gradient there a bit.

For GM 4, 5, 6, and the Well of Ramses II, am I right in thinking that it's a four way border? Same with 4, 6, and Well of Ramses II? If so, you could probably consolidate those into one line with a four way intersection between GM 4 and 6. The paths between Gm, 8, 9, 11, and the Well of Ramses II could also be made a bit clearer. Right now it's unclear as to whether GM8 can attack, say, GM9.

The Desert Road by Tanjur cuts into the text a bit. Could you move the path a bit so it gives the text a bit more room, or move the text to the south side of the territory?

I think I agree with bryguy that the texture is a bit much. I like it, but it's a bit strong right now. Could you tone down the opacity a bit?

I disagree with bryguy's last point, though. I think the 4 is readable as is.

Out of curiosity, what happens with the starting gold mines in a game with less than 8 players?
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Re: NUBIAN EGYPT V4 - New design

Postby cairnswk on Mon Apr 28, 2008 4:01 pm

bryguy wrote:1)The dows are really bright and crappy looking
fixed...somehow they got washed out
2) The territory colors are to bright
changed in V4 below
3) You can hardly read 'Swenet (Elaphentine)' at the top
Fixed
4) Whats a cataract?
A geogrphic feature in a river - look it up and learn
5) Edited out cause i realized that i was reading the map wrong for this one...... :oops:
Good.
6) The background texture is really bugging me....
Well it's a plaster background same as two other maps, your issue to handle unless there are others who don't like it.
7) You say '4 Gold Mines start as neutrals' but it looks like it says '+ Gold Mines start as neutrals'

That should be fixed.

Version 4.
Changes:
1. Overall, the colours and somewhat new design
2. Bevel placed on terts
3. Mini-map added but still a little untidy, will attend to that next version
4. Taharqa moved atop the Lotus Pillar

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Re: NUBIAN EGYPT V3 (P3) - bonus explanation gold mines

Postby cairnswk on Mon Apr 28, 2008 4:03 pm

ZeakCytho wrote:I agree the the old dows were better. Also, the territories of Cataracts 1, 2, and 3 are too bright on the left side. I'd turn down the gradient there a bit.

For GM 4, 5, 6, and the Well of Ramses II, am I right in thinking that it's a four way border? Same with 4, 6, and Well of Ramses II? If so, you could probably consolidate those into one line with a four way intersection between GM 4 and 6. The paths between Gm, 8, 9, 11, and the Well of Ramses II could also be made a bit clearer. Right now it's unclear as to whether GM8 can attack, say, GM9.

The Desert Road by Tanjur cuts into the text a bit. Could you move the path a bit so it gives the text a bit more room, or move the text to the south side of the territory?

I think I agree with bryguy that the texture is a bit much. I like it, but it's a bit strong right now. Could you tone down the opacity a bit?

I disagree with bryguy's last point, though. I think the 4 is readable as is.

Out of curiosity, what happens with the starting gold mines in a game with less than 8 players?


ZeakCytho...i've just put a new version....sorry i didn't know yours was there....can you review please on the latest V4.
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Re: NUBIAN EGYPT V3 (P3) - bonus explanation gold mines

Postby ZeakCytho on Mon Apr 28, 2008 4:10 pm

cairnswk wrote:ZeakCytho...i've just put a new version....sorry i didn't know yours was there....can you review please on the latest V4.


Sure thing.

My comments on the gold mines and desert roads still stand (see my last post, it's the largest paragraph there).

I like the desert background now, but the bevel on the territories is a little strong. Could you tone it back a bit?

Does the Well of Ramses II start neutral? Someone is bound to get it on the drop if it doesn't, which isn't great.

I like Taharqa on the pillar much better, but I don't like the minimap. I guess if you tidy it up like you said it could be better, but I thought the plain old legend was fine.

You've got a bit of dead space at the bottom of the map in the center...any more Egypt images you could put there?

Out of curiosity, what happens with the gold mines drop when there are less than 8 players?
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Re: NUBIAN EGYPT V3 (P3) - bonus explanation gold mines

Postby cairnswk on Mon Apr 28, 2008 4:24 pm

Thanks...mate...i'll be brief coz i have to get to RL work shortly.

ZeakCytho wrote:
cairnswk wrote:ZeakCytho...i've just put a new version....sorry i didn't know yours was there....can you review please on the latest V4.

Sure thing.
My comments on the gold mines and desert roads still stand (see my last post, it's the largest paragraph there).

I will review the gold mine section this evening.

I like the desert background now, but the bevel on the territories is a little strong. Could you tone it back a bit?
Yes
Does the Well of Ramses II start neutral? Someone is bound to get it on the drop if it doesn't, which isn't great.
Yes i could do that, either that or remove it as a feature bonus
I like Taharqa on the pillar much better, but I don't like the minimap. I guess if you tidy it up like you said it could be better, but I thought the plain old legend was fine.
I'd like to put the mini-mpa in there but just have to find the correect graphics for it....it would keep it consistent with the other two maps.
You've got a bit of dead space at the bottom of the map in the center...any more Egypt images you could put there?
Yes.
Out of curiosity, what happens with the gold mines drop when there are less than 8 players?

Good ?? edbeard proposed that combo bonus, so i'll drag him back in here for comment on that fact.
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Re: NUBIAN EGYPT V4 (P3) - New design

Postby bryguy on Mon Apr 28, 2008 8:58 pm

1) I agree that the bevel is a little strong, but it still adds a cool look :D
2) Sicne the 4th cataract is 1 territory, yet has to defend 3 borders, i think it should be moved up to a bonus of 2
3) Dows look better now
4) You cant really tell if you can go from kurgus to tumbus, or kurgus to GM2. If you can i suggest upping the kurgus bonus to 3
5) Sorry, nitpicking here, i dont like how the desert road between kawal and jebel barkal slightly goes onto the pink of jebel barkal
6) Googling cataracts now....

edit: i searched

Define: Cataracts

and got

An increased thickening and clouding of the lens of the eye that can lead to vision loss.

also as to make this edit not useless, if found u something on nubian egypt
http://www.angelfire.com/oh/AncientKnowledge/NUBIA.html
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Re: NUBIAN EGYPT V4 (P3) - New design

Postby cairnswk on Tue Apr 29, 2008 5:23 am

bryguy wrote:1) I agree that the bevel is a little strong, but it still adds a cool look :D

OK...well i might adjust it as it has the same level of bevel as the other maps....trying to create consistency here.

2) Sicne the 4th cataract is 1 territory, yet has to defend 3 borders, i think it should be moved up to a bonus of 2
OK...i'll consider that.

3) Dows look better now
Good.

4) You cant really tell if you can go from kurgus to tumbus, or kurgus to GM2. If you can i suggest upping the kurgus bonus to 3

You must need glasses if you can't tell that. i 'll consider the bonus.

[/quote]5) Sorry, nitpicking here, i dont like how the desert road between kawal and jebel barkal slightly goes onto the pink of jebel barkal[/quote]that's good nitpicking

6) Googling cataracts now....

edit: i searched
Define: Cataracts
and got
An increased thickening and clouding of the lens of the eye that can lead to vision loss.


Wow, i gotta say you didn't look very hard :shock:
i did a search in Google for "nile cataract" and got this - i think it'll give you good enough explanation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cataracts_of_the_Nile
Doesn't that make better sense as a search subject?? (even thought your definition is correct, but wrong area of study)

also as to make this edit not useless, if found u something on nubian egypt
http://www.angelfire.com/oh/AncientKnowledge/NUBIA.html

now that is good use of that noggin, thank you, i will read and absorb. :)
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Re: NUBIAN EGYPT V4 (P3) - New design

Postby edbeard on Tue Apr 29, 2008 5:46 am

You said that 8 start with one player each. at first I thought that was 1 army each which I thought was horrible, but then someone else made a comment so I think you're giving each player 1 gold mine to start.

I'm not sure how code works for starting positions. That's very important to know how it works before more changes are made to the map I think. I'm guessing it splits them evenly amongst players like its own map. If this is the case, you won't ever start with 3 gold mines because 8 is not divisible by 3 (remember 2 player games include a neutral player).

I'm not sure giving each player 1 gold mine is the way to go. It seems to limit the map. How often will Gold mines come into play if the most you start with is two and you need to hold seven? Well I guess people will go for that +7 bonus but someone grabbing the two territories that are worth +1 seems more like a winning move. Do that first and weaken everyone.


I'm just not really liking the gameplay so far on this map.

I don't like the criss-crossing attack lines. I don't like that the territories on the left are almost purely linear.

I know it's different, and maybe others will disagree. We don't want all maps to follow the same formula. I'm just not sure I like this one.
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Re: NUBIAN EGYPT V4 (P3) - New design

Postby cairnswk on Tue Apr 29, 2008 5:55 am

edbeard wrote: I'm just not sure I like this one.

Wow, what a way to sink a map!! i know you've justified it above which i will attend to shortly, but this is not what i expected from edbeard. :shock:
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Re: NUBIAN EGYPT V4 (P3) - New design

Postby InkL0sed on Tue Apr 29, 2008 6:20 am

I think the gold mines should all start neutral. But very low, say with only 1 or 2 armies. That way no one starts with one, but they're pretty easy to get.
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Re: NUBIAN EGYPT V4 (P3) - New design

Postby TaCktiX on Tue Apr 29, 2008 6:38 am

...And with them starting as neutral you can drop the 7 requirement that makes them an endgame bonus. Then you have a slew of +1's that anyone can get very early on, livening up play on this small map.
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Re: NUBIAN EGYPT V4 (P3) - New design

Postby ZeakCytho on Tue Apr 29, 2008 3:39 pm

I agree that they should start neutral. I think having 3 neutrals on them is best, though, so they aren't too easy to grab.
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Re: NUBIAN EGYPT V4 (P3) - New design

Postby edbeard on Tue Apr 29, 2008 3:59 pm

cairnswk wrote:
edbeard wrote: I'm just not sure I like this one.

Wow, what a way to sink a map!! i know you've justified it above which i will attend to shortly, but this is not what i expected from edbeard. :shock:


yea sorry. I look forward to seeing how you respond though.


I know the linear part is due to the river. Maybe you can think of something creative.
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Re: NUBIAN EGYPT V4 (P3) - New design

Postby cairnswk on Tue Apr 29, 2008 4:13 pm

edbeard wrote:
cairnswk wrote:
edbeard wrote: I'm just not sure I like this one.

Wow, what a way to sink a map!! i know you've justified it above which i will attend to shortly, but this is not what i expected from edbeard. :shock:

yea sorry. I look forward to seeing how you respond though.
I know the linear part is due to the river. Maybe you can think of something creative.

Thanks edbeard...I don't think I'm going to be able to do much about the lineation of the river terts.
There is a possibility that something might reveal itself once i read that article referred to by bryguy.
I am thinking that the only way around this is to make the dessert areas between the gold mines and river east terts included as terts in the maps also, but that will depend on other information i can dig up to keep the map true to history.
I'll look into this and the gold bonuses on the weekend when I have another long weekend to do something about it.
I'll be in Sydney all next week so won't have access to doing to maps, may still be able to play my games and respond to comments though.
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Re: NUBIAN EGYPT V4 (P3) - New design

Postby t-o-m on Tue Apr 29, 2008 4:45 pm

how come all of the terits have a bevel on the outside but not the gold mines?
on ur mini-map the bottom 2 (2nd and 4th) are they either thinner or have more stroke on them or something? because you cant really see the colours on them (the font colours) - or is it just a dark colour?
it seems like someone has just taken a big chunk of the map out from the middle, perhaps put something there? (maybe a continueation of the map but at an extremely low ocpacity??)
is the well of ramasese part of a cont? (im just making sure)
whats that box thing at the top on the actual map? its next to Swenet.
is kurgus on its own with no cont...if so why?
-----
overall the map seems a bit empty, but its good :D
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Re: NUBIAN EGYPT V4 (P3) - New design

Postby AndyDufresne on Thu May 01, 2008 11:30 am

Cairnswk, is this the last in the series of Egyptian maps? (If they all get done, I think they could be a great addition to the site, and thematic tournaments).

Anyways...the statue image isn't cutting it for me. I was really sad to see go the little picture in the left top corner you had a page or two ago...More things like that!


--Andy
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Re: NUBIAN EGYPT V4 (P3) - New design

Postby cairnswk on Thu May 01, 2008 11:51 am

AndyDufresne wrote:Cairnswk, is this the last in the series of Egyptian maps? (If they all get done, I think they could be a great addition to the site, and thematic tournaments).


Yes Andy, this is the last of the Egyptian series:
Egypt: Lower
Egypt: Upper
Egypt: Nubia
Egypt: VOTK

I know you have been waiting for something concrete on Egypt for sometime. ;)
So, yes i doooo hope they all get done.

Anyways...the statue image isn't cutting it for me. I was really sad to see go the little picture in the left top corner you had a page or two ago...More things like that!
--Andy

OK, that can be returned....just trying to find items that link all the maps together design-wise but still give them their own character. I'd like to keep the statue as this was the main Pharaoh from this area...but perhaps your image can go elsewhere on the page. :)
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Re: NUBIAN EGYPT V4 (P3) - New design

Postby gimil on Mon May 05, 2008 10:11 pm

Cairns whats the stroy with this? It still alive and kicking?
What do you know about map making, bitch?

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Re: NUBIAN EGYPT V4 (P3) - New design

Postby mibi on Mon May 05, 2008 10:57 pm

These maps seem to evoke Egypt less and less. This one kinda looks like amoeba under a microscope. If it weren't for the historical flotsam and jetsam, I would swear this image was part of some science project.
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Re: NUBIAN EGYPT V4 (P3) [VACATION]

Postby cairnswk on Tue May 06, 2008 5:58 am

gimil wrote:Cairns whats the stroy with this? It still alive and kicking?


Well, i think Gimil, it'll have to be vacationed for a while.
I have run out of artistic puff at the mo and going to sydney this week isn't going to help.
So i will vacation it, and it can still be reinvented later, like i did with Sydney. :)
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Re: NUBIAN EGYPT V4 (P3) - New design

Postby cairnswk on Tue May 06, 2008 5:59 am

mibi wrote:These maps seem to evoke Egypt less and less. This one kinda looks like amoeba under a microscope. If it weren't for the historical flotsam and jetsam, I would swear this image was part of some science project.

Yeh, mibi i understand your comment and agree.
I'll tackle it again later to complete the series.
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Re: NUBIAN EGYPT V4 (P3) [VACATION]

Postby gimil on Tue May 06, 2008 8:45 am

cairnswk wrote:
gimil wrote:Cairns whats the stroy with this? It still alive and kicking?


Well, i think Gimil, it'll have to be vacationed for a while.
I have run out of artistic puff at the mo and going to sydney this week isn't going to help.
So i will vacation it, and it can still be reinvented later, like i did with Sydney. :)


In that case have fun in sydney!
What do you know about map making, bitch?

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Re: NUBIAN EGYPT V4 (P3)

Postby cairnswk on Sun May 11, 2008 7:00 pm

gimil wrote:
cairnswk wrote:
gimil wrote:Cairns whats the stroy with this? It still alive and kicking?


Well, i think Gimil, it'll have to be vacationed for a while.
I have run out of artistic puff at the mo and going to sydney this week isn't going to help.
So i will vacation it, and it can still be reinvented later, like i did with Sydney. :)


In that case have fun in sydney!


Thanks Gimil.

I did have fun.

Can you pulldown the poll from this map please, and i'll get back to it soon.
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