Forbidden City [Quenched]

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Re: Forbidden City [Quenched]

Postby cairnswk on Mon Nov 24, 2008 5:43 am

wcaclimbing wrote:Maybe I missed something or the XML has a problem, but which lanterns are supposed to attack the other lanterns? What kind of pattern are they supposed to be following?

EDIT: I'm probably just getting confused by the "border indicators" part.

wca...probably you just need to study the paths and borders a bit more.
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Re: Forbidden City [Quenched]

Postby oaktown on Fri Dec 05, 2008 11:57 pm

this has been live and "beta" for some time... any concerns that need to be addressed before we yank the beta tag? I see there are some comments about connectivity, but anything specific that you think would be worth changing, cairnswk?
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Re: Forbidden City [Quenched]

Postby cairnswk on Sat Dec 06, 2008 3:08 am

oaktown wrote:this has been live and "beta" for some time... any concerns that need to be addressed before we yank the beta tag? I see there are some comments about connectivity, but anything specific that you think would be worth changing, cairnswk?

oaktown...i just had about a dozen games on this map and i am reasonably happy with it.
i think most of the problems arise from players not reading the legend connections and examining the map for connections instead of jumping in the deep end.
it is not an easy map, but then i don't mind challenging players with something different as you know.
onwards and upwards.
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Re: Forbidden City [Quenched]

Postby cairnswk on Sat Dec 06, 2008 3:16 pm

Feedback from a game with iancanton
2008-12-06 08:07:58 - cairnswk: guys. i am asking before this map goes LIVE...are u ahppy with this gameplay etc etc. does the map play well enough
2008-12-06 08:08:28 - cairnswk: i know this is a big ask on one game, but you should have some idea by now
2008-12-06 09:26:51 - iancanton: there are certainly some surprises
2008-12-06 09:27:35 - iancanton: i thought that c would have a huge advantage after taking all of the emperors
2008-12-06 09:28:07 - iancanton: then forting eveything to them
2008-12-06 09:33:05 - iancanton: but that leaves weaknesses elsewhere!
2008-12-06 09:35:58 - iancanton: i think the map's big enough to let everyone carry out some sort of strategy in his own little corner
2008-12-06 09:36:57 - iancanton: the outside connections are always good for a surprise attack
2008-12-06 09:37:27 - iancanton: u're on to a winner!
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Re: Forbidden City [Quenched]

Postby e_i_pi on Wed Dec 17, 2008 5:09 am

I love your maps cairns, but it becomes harder and harder to understand what's going on with each map. A Degree in working out what the hell is going in is required :?

I found the amount of instructions confusing, wondering why the towers couldn't attack the passageways and vice versa - it turns out I haven't read down to chapter 7 yet. It took 3 games before I knew where Ming and Qing were, and the attack route up the centre - it's new, it's unprecedented, and it's a game-winner if you know it, and a definite loss if you don't. The borders are still impossible for me to decipher - I need Bob to do any good at this map. Ming and Qing seem too high... all the games I play seems to come down to who holds them.

I dunno, look the style is great, and the diversity of your maps, but I just feel maps like this are a haven for farmers and will ultimately result in who has the most plugins and who can remember the bizarre nature of the map the best. The 'skill' aspect is replaced by an 'Aeronautical Engineering Qualification' aspect. None if it comes naturally, I find myself constantly reading and re-reading the instructions - one turn on this map takes me 10 minutes + :(
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Re: Forbidden City [Quenched]

Postby cairnswk on Wed Dec 17, 2008 9:33 am

e_i_pi wrote:I love your maps cairns, but it becomes harder and harder to understand what's going on with each map. A Degree in working out what the hell is going in is required :?

I found the amount of instructions confusing, wondering why the towers couldn't attack the passageways and vice versa - it turns out I haven't read down to chapter 7 yet. It took 3 games before I knew where Ming and Qing were, and the attack route up the centre - it's new, it's unprecedented, and it's a game-winner if you know it, and a definite loss if you don't. The borders are still impossible for me to decipher - I need Bob to do any good at this map. Ming and Qing seem too high... all the games I play seems to come down to who holds them.

I dunno, look the style is great, and the diversity of your maps, but I just feel maps like this are a haven for farmers and will ultimately result in who has the most plugins and who can remember the bizarre nature of the map the best. The 'skill' aspect is replaced by an 'Aeronautical Engineering Qualification' aspect. None if it comes naturally, I find myself constantly reading and re-reading the instructions - one turn on this map takes me 10 minutes + :(


"Then you are learning something...this is a good thing, yes?", and the old bent-over Chinese man with the long white beard and crooked walking stick turns and walks towards the sun where his ancestors reside.
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Re: Forbidden City [Quenched]

Postby e_i_pi on Wed Dec 17, 2008 7:48 pm

That's it... I'm making a multivariate calculus map and watching all of you squirm :twisted:
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Re: Forbidden City [Quenched]

Postby Incandenza on Sun Dec 21, 2008 5:28 am

e_i_pi wrote:That's it... I'm making a multivariate calculus map and watching all of you squirm :twisted:


If you made it, I'd play it, and get to 5000 in no time. 8-)
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Re: Forbidden City [Quenched]

Postby oaktown on Wed Jan 07, 2009 9:40 pm

I'm going to recommend that the BETA tag be pulled off of this map. I agree with cairnswk that the problems users have experienced have more to do with the complexity of the map than with any particular gameplay feature that needs to be changed.
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Re: Forbidden City [Quenched]

Postby GenuineEarlGrey on Tue Jan 13, 2009 11:56 pm

Just been playing the map for the first time Game 4030689

It looks great, has some really interesting features. There were several times, however, I couldn't figure out whether there was something wrong with the map or there was something I couldn't see that was on the map.

Sorry, oaktown, but to say

oaktown wrote: ....that the problems users have experienced have more to do with the complexity of the map than with any particular gameplay feature that needs to be changed.


is more than a little patronising. The had no problem with the "Inside" and "Outside" but there were several occasions when what could attack what (rooms on the same corridor) could attack what was down right confusing.

Confusing to the point that I thought there was something wrong with the code.

Best wishes

E.G.
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Re: Forbidden City [Quenched]

Postby cairnswk on Wed Jan 14, 2009 11:57 am

GenuineEarlGrey wrote:Just been playing the map for the first time Game 4030689

It looks great, has some really interesting features. There were several times, however, I couldn't figure out whether there was something wrong with the map or there was something I couldn't see that was on the map.
....The had no problem with the "Inside" and "Outside" but there were several occasions when what could attack what (rooms on the same corridor) could attack what was down right confusing.
Confusing to the point that I thought there was something wrong with the code.
Best wishes
E.G.

E.G. I have to ask....aren't you able to follow lines and corridors on a map and thus determine that they are borders with other territories?
I am sorry that you found that map confusing. :( but really there is nothing confusing about it; it just requires a bit of thinking about.
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Re: Forbidden City [Quenched]

Postby GenuineEarlGrey on Sat Jan 17, 2009 4:44 am

First things first. Its a really nice map. I want to figure out how to play this map!

cairnswk wrote:E.G. I have to ask....aren't you able to follow lines and corridors on a map and thus determine that they are borders with other territories?
I am sorry that you found that map confusing. :( but really there is nothing confusing about it; it just requires a bit of thinking about.


I'm giving it another go. One move in and, again, I'm confused.

I've not been able to marry what is on the legend with what's in the City.

So, I'm off to follow those paths again and see if I can get further this time.

Cheers

E.G. :?
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Re: Forbidden City [Quenched]

Postby Qwert on Sun Jan 18, 2009 6:03 pm

People need to understand that Cairnswk maps in first view look complex,but its need to play more than one game to learn map gameplay better.
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Re: Forbidden City [Quenched]

Postby GenuineEarlGrey on Mon Jan 19, 2009 4:55 pm

qwert wrote:People need to understand that Cairnswk maps in first view look complex,but its need to play more than one game to learn map gameplay better.


Perhaps we could add a health warning :lol:
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Re: Forbidden City [Quenched]

Postby sailorseal on Mon Jan 19, 2009 5:15 pm

This map has so many territs fit into such a small space, not saying it is a good or bad thing just saying it
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Re: Forbidden City [Quenched]

Postby The Neon Peon on Mon Jan 19, 2009 9:47 pm

sailorseal wrote:This map has so many territs fit into such a small space, not saying it is a good or bad thing just saying it

Then why say anything at all?
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Re: Forbidden City [Quenched]

Postby bbqpenguin on Mon Jan 26, 2009 2:01 pm

shouldn't empress' palace be empress's?
unless the chamber belonged to multiple empresses?

in which case, shouldn't emperor's be emperors'?
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Re: Forbidden City [Quenched]

Postby iancanton on Sun Feb 01, 2009 4:01 pm

the palace belongs to only one empress at a time. i believe empress' and empress's can both be used to mean "of the empress", while empresses' means "of the empresses". i tend to use empress's myself when speaking, even though it's less clear.

ian. :)
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Re: Forbidden City [Quenched]

Postby GenuineEarlGrey on Mon Feb 23, 2009 8:38 pm

cairnswk wrote:E.G. I have to ask....aren't you able to follow lines and corridors on a map and thus determine that they are borders with other territories?
I am sorry that you found that map confusing. :( but really there is nothing confusing about it; it just requires a bit of thinking about.


After three or four games....
  • I still like the map.
  • I'm getting a better idea how the corridors / colours / doors link
  • I'm still finding the odd occasion where my interpretation of the key / map instructions doesn't follow what I can do with the map.
  • I will try again.
  • There isn't one. :roll:

E.G.
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Re: Forbidden City [Quenched]

Postby e_i_pi on Sat Jun 06, 2009 9:13 am

Okay, I haven't read through all the posts here, so apologies if this has been raised cairns.

I am playing a doubles 6 player game on this map (Game 4884171), and found a weird forting thing going on. I was able to fort along the Meridian despite not owning any Emperors...

2009-05-31 09:14:59 - e_i_pi reinforced Japan with 1 troops from Hall of Preserving Harmony


Now, I didn't hold anything along the Meridian, aside from the north gates. So I guess the chain was...

Hall of Preserving Harmony ->
Shenwu Men West ->
Russia ->
Japan

But, the instructinos on the side say...
Emperors can attack territories along or bordering yellow Imperial Meridian & vice versa

To me, this means Emperors can attack along the Meridian, and territories along the Meridian can attack Emperors. But it doesn't imply that territories along the Meridian can attack other (non-adjacent) territories along the Meridian (which would explain why I could fort along the Meridian).

Is this an oversight in the instructions, an XML problem, or a chain fort code problem?
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Re: Forbidden City [Quenched]

Postby cairnswk on Sat Jun 06, 2009 11:04 am

e_i_pi wrote:Okay, I haven't read through all the posts here, so apologies if this has been raised cairns.

I am playing a doubles 6 player game on this map (Game 4884171), and found a weird forting thing going on. I was able to fort along the Meridian despite not owning any Emperors...

2009-05-31 09:14:59 - e_i_pi reinforced Japan with 1 troops from Hall of Preserving Harmony


Now, I didn't hold anything along the Meridian, aside from the north gates. So I guess the chain was...

Hall of Preserving Harmony ->
Shenwu Men West ->
Russia ->
Japan

But, the instructinos on the side say...
Emperors can attack territories along or bordering yellow Imperial Meridian & vice versa

To me, this means Emperors can attack along the Meridian, and territories along the Meridian can attack Emperors. But it doesn't imply that territories along the Meridian can attack other (non-adjacent) territories along the Meridian (which would explain why I could fort along the Meridian).

Is this an oversight in the instructions, an XML problem, or a chain fort code problem?


Code: Select all
2009-06-02 00:03:01 - saito hadjime assaulted Emps. T'zu-hsi from Wu Men and conquered it from e_i_pi

this tells me that you held this old bird who borders Shenwu Men West which probably enabled you to fort Japan thru Russia, yes? If this is the case, this is not bad, that old dear had her fingers in so many foreign pies....
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Re: Forbidden City [Quenched]

Postby e_i_pi on Sat Jun 06, 2009 12:51 pm

cairnswk wrote:
Code: Select all
2009-06-02 00:03:01 - saito hadjime assaulted Emps. T'zu-hsi from Wu Men and conquered it from e_i_pi

this tells me that you held this old bird who borders Shenwu Men West which probably enabled you to fort Japan thru Russia, yes? If this is the case, this is not bad, that old dear had her fingers in so many foreign pies....

Doh yes I did have the Empress. Sorry cairns, false alarm. My teammate was meant to take that off me the moment I forted him the stack :lol:
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Re: Forbidden City [Quenched]

Postby e_i_pi on Fri Aug 21, 2009 6:25 am

The border between Yo and Cheng either needs to be taken out, or needs to be able to be seen. I recently got screwed in a game because I couldn't make out the border, which is almost imperceptable due to the Meridian line
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Re: Forbidden City [Quenched]

Postby iancanton on Sun Apr 25, 2010 2:42 am

cairnswk wrote:
Code: Select all
2009-06-02 00:03:01 - saito hadjime assaulted Emps. T'zu-hsi from Wu Men and conquered it from e_i_pi

the xml needs to have the empress' name changed from t'zu-hsi to tz'u hsi to match both the map and the historic spelling.

http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/612105/Cixi

ian. :)
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Re: Forbidden City [Quenched]

Postby cairnswk on Sun Apr 25, 2010 3:22 am

e_i_pi wrote:The border between Yo and Cheng either needs to be taken out, or needs to be able to be seen. I recently got screwed in a game because I couldn't make out the border, which is almost imperceptable due to the Meridian line


To solve this i've added an arrow between the two...

Image

Click image to enlarge.
image


iancanton wrote:
cairnswk wrote:
Code: Select all
2009-06-02 00:03:01 - saito hadjime assaulted Emps. T'zu-hsi from Wu Men and conquered it from e_i_pi

the xml needs to have the empress' name changed from t'zu-hsi to tz'u hsi to match both the map and the historic spelling.

http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/612105/Cixi

ian. :)


adjusted as per below

http://h1.ripway.com/cairnswk/forbidden_city_240410.xml
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