USA Map Pack [Quenched]

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Re: USA 6 Region Map Pack

Postby WidowMakers on Sun Jun 22, 2008 8:06 pm

seamusk wrote:I think this could be good. So long as each map isn't just the same gamplay stamped on the other states. Each unique should be unique and draw out that areas elements. With similar base gameplay but unique overall. My thougts...

OK I think seamusk has brought up the most important point. Do the maps need to have different gameplay aspects? When i originally thought up this idea I figured it would not matter. There are many other "classic" style maps that play similar but look different. While they will play different dues to size, number of continents/capitals, interstate routes and bonuses, these 6 maps will basically have the exact same theme is gameplay and graphical style. But after all they are supposed to look and feel the same since they are graphically based ont eh current USA map and I want them to have the same feel in gameplay.

So I guess I need to get agreement before I spend any more time on these. I think Andy and the C.A.s need to look this over and make the call.

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Re: USA 6 Region Map Pack

Postby WidowMakers on Sun Jun 22, 2008 8:07 pm

t-o-m wrote:would they each be called:
USA: XXXX

so they would be in the same spot in the gamefinder?


That is my intent. Each map will be named USA: XXX, where XXX is one of the 6 regions on th current USA map. (See tile of 2nd-7th post in this thread)

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Re: USA 6 Region Map Pack

Postby WidowMakers on Sun Jun 22, 2008 8:09 pm

RjBeals wrote:Sounds like a great project Widow. Have you tried contacting Demonart (whomever that is) to see if he is willing to contribute to graphics?
I did not feel like dealing with that. I just remade the original in photoshop. I am using the same shapes and colors as much as I can.

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Re: USA 6 Region Map Pack

Postby WidowMakers on Sun Jun 22, 2008 8:11 pm

dittoeevee8888 wrote:I was wondering how similar would the Great Lakes region map to the Great Lakes map released already and playable? Would it just be similar just without Ontario?

I originally thought that might be an issue but this GL map will have 48 territories, it will not use lakes, it has 13 bonuses (each state), the state capital bonuses and probably 3 interstate bonuses as well. So it WILL play 100% different and look 95% different as well

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Re: USA 6 Region Map Pack

Postby Kaplowitz on Sun Jun 22, 2008 8:13 pm

Maybe slight gameplay changes, but mostly classic?
sounds great, i hope you have the time!
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Re: USA 6 Region Map Pack

Postby muy_thaiguy on Sun Jun 22, 2008 9:01 pm

I was hoping someone would do maps like these! Good luck with it.
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Re: USA 6 Region Map Pack

Postby WidowMakers on Sun Jun 22, 2008 9:21 pm

Well I just posted the prelim image for West, SW, Rockies and a 80% done SE.

I know the bonuses need to be adjusted. They are just there for show right now.

But before I work any more or we discuss anything else, it needs to be decided if I am allowed to continue due to teh maps looking similar and having similar gameplay.
I feel the layout of each region and number of different bonus group in each region will be enough to differentiate them in gameplay.
But we need the official decision fro the CA's and Andy.


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Re: USA 6 Region Map Pack

Postby edbeard on Sun Jun 22, 2008 9:40 pm

WidowMakers wrote:But before I work any more or we discuss anything else, it needs to be decided if I am allowed to continue due to teh maps looking similar and having similar gameplay.
I feel the layout of each region and number of different bonus group in each region will be enough to differentiate them in gameplay.
But we need the official decision fro the CA's and Andy.


These are six different maps representing six different areas. That's enough to differentiate them. If you were to make six random maps and have all standard gameplay on them, no one would say its a bad thing. Having them as a set and being somewhat similar only strengthens them. I've always thought highway maps would be good and you've done a great job with it.



Good job on 'em all. They are awesome.

Smart choice switching California to Grapes btw since it's always the number one or two crop for the state.
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Re: USA 6 Region Map Pack

Postby seamusk on Sun Jun 22, 2008 9:49 pm

Well, I'm not crazy about them. My main concern, however, is that these maps would somehow be used to argue that other maps of the states with more interesting gameplay not be made. Otherwise more power to you. I understand their purpose and what not and I wouldn't want to be negative about a map. I honestly doubt they would get that much gameplay. If you were interested in making each unique in some way I'd be more into it. Good luck either way!
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Re: USA 6 Region Map Pack

Postby AndyDufresne on Sun Jun 22, 2008 10:32 pm

This isn't anything "official" just me talking. Lets look at the other precedents set by series maps. We've got DiM's Age of Realms series, Carinswk's Rail series, Cairnswk's Egypt series, Qwert's European Theatre series, and WM's probable Draknor series. Those in the AoR series are relatively unique but focus around Objectives, those in the Rail series are pretty similar with a some minor tweaks, those in the Egypt series also have some minor tweaks and the same goes for those in the European Theatre, and each level of Draknor has been proposed to be pretty different. So it seems like we've got a gamut of standard game play across a series...to series with more game play uniqueness. Since no series is exactly like another, as long as the series itself is interesting...it could live and thrive I suppose.

USA regions aren't so interesting to me, but what I can say is...is the link up with Tournament folks. Perhaps this series could continue and make an even more interesting relationship with them. :D This feels more like rambling than anything. That's why I said it was nothing official. ;)


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Re: USA 6 Region Map Pack

Postby WidowMakers on Sun Jun 22, 2008 11:24 pm

AndyDufresne wrote:This isn't anything "official" just me talking. Lets look at the other precedents set by series maps. We've got DiM's Age of Realms series, Carinswk's Rail series, Cairnswk's Egypt series, Qwert's European Theatre series, and WM's probable Draknor series. Those in the AoR series are relatively unique but focus around Objectives, those in the Rail series are pretty similar with a some minor tweaks, those in the Egypt series also have some minor tweaks and the same goes for those in the European Theatre, and each level of Draknor has been proposed to be pretty different. So it seems like we've got a gamut of standard game play across a series...to series with more game play uniqueness. Since no series is exactly like another, as long as the series itself is interesting...it could live and thrive I suppose.

USA regions aren't so interesting to me, but what I can say is...is the link up with Tournament folks. Perhaps this series could continue and make an even more interesting relationship with them. :D This feels more like rambling than anything. That's why I said it was nothing official. ;)


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Re: USA 6 Region Map Pack

Postby brandoncfi on Mon Jun 23, 2008 12:05 am

Well...I say yes it is a great idea and I am sure many tourneys can and will use these maps as a focus
I can think of a few tourneys right now that I could make up using these maps

besides the more maps the better for my Map Blaster Tourney Series good luck and Ill try to put my two cents in as these maps travel through the foundry
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Re: USA 6 Region Map Pack

Postby Optimus Prime on Mon Jun 23, 2008 12:22 am

WidowMakers, you are officially my hero. Seriously, I'm not joking, for the following reasons:

A. The USA map is my favorite of all time. I would play on nothing but it if I felt like I could fill the games.

B. Small maps are in short supply these days.

Let me explain why this will be so incredibly amazing for us over in Tournaments:

1. Such a high percentage of maps being released today have unique gameplay features that not everyone knows right off the bat. Sure, they learn with time, but those who learn it quickly then seek out those tournaments to gain a particular advantage. There is nothing wrong with that, they are utilizing their skills, but we need a good influx of standard gameplay maps for the tournament organizers to use. It is my official stance as a Tournament Director that all these maps should stay with standard gameplay given that the current USA map has standard gameplay and if they are intended to work as a unit with that map you should keep it consistent. Not to mention, we need more maps with standard gameplay to balance out the number with non-standard.

2. Tournaments using a particular theme are very, very popular these days, and will continue to be. The WWII maps and the AoR maps are insanely popular for running tournaments that have a progressive nature to them. This set of maps in conjunction with the USA map we already have will be even better for that type of thing. I'm not going to list all the possible formats I could run with a set of maps like this as it would bore you foundry folks, but I'll just say it makes this robot very, very happy.

3. I agree that the maps need to all be quenched an put into live play at the same time so that they can be readily used for tournaments. It was a real hassle for the ambitious organizers to wait for the future AoR maps in order to run all their tournaments. It was a great day when they were finally all completed.

4. The fact that these maps are small in nature but still support the 8 player game with one very minor exception will be of great worth to Tournaments. We have a big lack of smaller maps these days, and it is an area that has not been explored because of it. Lot's of tournaments revolve around larger maps, and I personally would like to see our organizers expand into the smaller map realm as well because there are some niche players (such as myself) who love the smaller maps and it's an audience I would like to tap in our tournaments.

These are just a few of the more major reasons that I think this project is absolutely amazing. I would love to see this type of project happen with some other maps such as Europe and others as well because it really does open up an entirely new realm for my organizers.
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Re: USA 6 Region Map Pack

Postby Ditocoaf on Mon Jun 23, 2008 2:14 am

The more standard the gameplay, the better. I can't think of too many maps with simple Territories and Continents... so frankly, having these be plain-old Risk will make them stand out. I'd even lean away from the highway aspect (reminiscent of the "rail" maps), and go for counties or districts. Or if you're going to do cities connected by roads, at least take out the highway and capital bonuses. I know everyone seems to want more complex, interesting gameplay. But the fact is, there's a reason that it's so much more interesting to discuss strategy for the Classic map: on other maps, all of the complexities are laid out in the map design. In a simple, standard map, the complexities come in with strategy and gameplay.
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Re: USA 6 Region Map Pack

Postby lord voldemort on Mon Jun 23, 2008 6:53 am

looks good wm...i agree with what opie said...there arent enuf simple small maps coming out atm...these would be a blessing..i say go for it...
also cause it sets a precedent and then cairns can do a similar thing with asutralia ;)
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Re: USA 6 Region Map Pack

Postby WidowMakers on Mon Jun 23, 2008 7:20 am

Optimus Prime wrote:WidowMakers, you are officially my hero. Seriously, I'm not joking, for the following reasons:

A. The USA map is my favorite of all time. I would play on nothing but it if I felt like I could fill the games.

B. Small maps are in short supply these days.

Let me explain why this will be so incredibly amazing for us over in Tournaments:

1. Such a high percentage of maps being released today have unique gameplay features that not everyone knows right off the bat. Sure, they learn with time, but those who learn it quickly then seek out those tournaments to gain a particular advantage. There is nothing wrong with that, they are utilizing their skills, but we need a good influx of standard gameplay maps for the tournament organizers to use. It is my official stance as a Tournament Director that all these maps should stay with standard gameplay given that the current USA map has standard gameplay and if they are intended to work as a unit with that map you should keep it consistent. Not to mention, we need more maps with standard gameplay to balance out the number with non-standard.

2. Tournaments using a particular theme are very, very popular these days, and will continue to be. The WWII maps and the AoR maps are insanely popular for running tournaments that have a progressive nature to them. This set of maps in conjunction with the USA map we already have will be even better for that type of thing. I'm not going to list all the possible formats I could run with a set of maps like this as it would bore you foundry folks, but I'll just say it makes this robot very, very happy.

3. I agree that the maps need to all be quenched an put into live play at the same time so that they can be readily used for tournaments. It was a real hassle for the ambitious organizers to wait for the future AoR maps in order to run all their tournaments. It was a great day when they were finally all completed.

4. The fact that these maps are small in nature but still support the 8 player game with one very minor exception will be of great worth to Tournaments. We have a big lack of smaller maps these days, and it is an area that has not been explored because of it. Lot's of tournaments revolve around larger maps, and I personally would like to see our organizers expand into the smaller map realm as well because there are some niche players (such as myself) who love the smaller maps and it's an audience I would like to tap in our tournaments.

These are just a few of the more major reasons that I think this project is absolutely amazing. I would love to see this type of project happen with some other maps such as Europe and others as well because it really does open up an entirely new realm for my organizers.
So you want me to continue? ;)

Thanks for the support. I only hope the maps turn out well for everyone interested. If there are others interested in this from a tourney perspective, make sure they see the thread and comment.

WM
Last edited by WidowMakers on Mon Jun 23, 2008 7:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: USA 6 Region Map Pack

Postby WidowMakers on Mon Jun 23, 2008 7:23 am

Ditocoaf wrote: 1) so frankly, having these be plain-old Risk will make them stand out. I'd even lean away from the highway aspect (reminiscent of the "rail" maps), and go for counties or districts.
2) Or if you're going to do cities connected by roads, at least take out the highway and capital bonuses. I know everyone seems to want more complex, interesting gameplay. But the fact is, there's a reason that it's so much more interesting to discuss strategy for the Classic map: on other maps, all of the complexities are laid out in the map design. In a simple, standard map, the complexities come in with strategy and gameplay.

1) Should I get rid of the roads and make the territories districts? With the same names of the cities but connected with borders not roads?
2) Should I get rid of the other bonuses (Interstate and capitals)? Do they take away from the standard gameplay or are they needed to help change it up a bit.

Everyone else, what do you think?

I thank you for your comments and will wait till this is discussed a bit before I start working again.

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Re: USA 6 Region Map Pack

Postby yeti_c on Mon Jun 23, 2008 7:47 am

WidowMakers wrote:1) Should I get rid of the roads and make the territories districts? With the same names of the cities but connected with borders not roads?


No I say keep them in - as long as you keep them a bit sublte (like currently) I wouldn't want all of the routes to be bonusable.

WidowMakers wrote:2) Should I get rid of the other bonuses (Interstate and capitals)? Do they take away from the standard gameplay or are they needed to help change it up a bit.


Consider removing capitals - but again I think I like the extra interplay that gives away from the straight normal gameplay.

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Re: USA 6 Region Map Pack

Postby wcaclimbing on Mon Jun 23, 2008 8:09 am

I'm not a big fan of the cities+roads, but they seem to work ok here. I'd like it more if it was split into regular territories, so it is more similar to the USA map, but its not a big deal.

Just curious, are you making this with vectors?
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Re: Southeast Region

Postby t-o-m on Mon Jun 23, 2008 11:38 am

ok i dont say this a lot, but QUENCH THEM ALL NOW!
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Re: USA 6 Region Map Pack

Postby RjBeals on Mon Jun 23, 2008 11:50 am

Honestly, I think you should not separate all the states. Keep them grouped. And I also don't like the highways. The graphic style is great.
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Re: Southwest Region

Postby t-o-m on Mon Jun 23, 2008 11:54 am

WidowMakers wrote:Version 1
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is it me or does oklahoma not match its legend colour?

also this one is sadly my least faveourite of the maps, i dont relly like the green-ness
i also think there should be some kinda of texture** on the lengend and the highway and state capitals descriptions

**not really texture but the kind of style that you did on the land
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Re: USA 6 Region Map Pack

Postby Ruben Cassar on Mon Jun 23, 2008 11:59 am

I'm liking these maps. Nice job WM.

I think they are just right in terms of gameplay as well...not over complicated and not simple.

Keep up the good work!
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Re: USA 6 Region Map Pack

Postby edbeard on Mon Jun 23, 2008 2:55 pm

getting rid of the highways is a huge change in gameplay.

you couldn't split up the states like you have it now. I think it makes the whole series less interesting. the highways add another unique thing to these maps.

also, you couldn't really do the state capitals as you have done.


The whole series is really nice because you're using major highways and roads. You're also putting in relevant background symbols for these states. It adds a bit of education to the maps.


The only thing I don't like is on a map like the southwest where a road from San Antonio to El Paso and Midland to El Paso connect. Does this mean all three cities connect? I would think they do, but it's not really intuitive.
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Re: USA 6 Region Map Pack

Postby dittoeevee8888 on Mon Jun 23, 2008 3:21 pm

WidowMakers wrote:Version 1
Image

Statistics:
    Number of territories: 40
    Number of Bonus State Groups: 9
    Number of Bonus State Capital Groups: 6
    Number of Bonus Interstates: 3

Details:
    -The bonus values have not been determined yet they are open for discussion.
    -The colors are roughly based on the Blue Rockies bonus group from the USA map currently on CC.
    -Here are the icons in the background of each state: Idaho (Potato) / Montana (pig) / Utah (pick axe [mining]) / Wyoming (cattle) / Colorado (snow) / Kansas (Wheat) / Nebraska (Sheep) / S Dakota (Soybeans) / N Dakota (turkey)
    -The images in the background are the 1) Rockie Mountians



Firstly, North Dakota should definately NOT get 7, 3 territories for seven bonus armies definately doesn't seem right, probably 2 or 3 max. I think the 7 for Montana is too high, 5 or 4 seems reasonable to me.
I also dislike the blue-ness of the states. I don't think it goes well with the background that much...

t-o-m wrote:
WidowMakers wrote:Version 1
Image

is it me or does oklahoma not match its legend colour?

also this one is sadly my least faveourite of the maps, i dont relly like the green-ness
i also think there should be some kinda of texture** on the lengend and the highway and state capitals descriptions

**not really texture but the kind of style that you did on the land


And it's not just you, oklahoma's legend and state colour are different.

I don't like the fact that the 40 interstate has a +7 bonus for 5 territories, I think it's too much.

Great job on the 3 maps you've done so far, though.

Also, from a tourney organizer's POV, it's a good idea...series are really popular, especially a specific groups of maps...it makes everything easier for my Jeopardy! tourney ;)
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Sergeant 1st Class dittoeevee8888
 
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