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Re: Land And Water v2p4 gameplay talk

Postby edbeard on Sun Sep 07, 2008 7:25 pm

MrBenn wrote:You could add a territory into the Med??

Instead of using arrows, surely ports/docks would make sense? Is there any real-world rationale for picking the places you have?



that'd be quite a mess considering how crunched up it is already in the europe area. And, this is the large map.


like I said, I'm just using the arrows for gameplay discussion but a good suggestion to keep in mind for whoever does the graphics.

there really isn't much real-world rationale for them. I'm shamelessly doing them for gameplay purposes because this is for a game. I'm sure I can find rivers and ports in all those areas and rationalize them that way (but that's not what you mean) but, yea, it's about the gameplay right now.
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Re: Land And Water v2p4 gameplay talk

Postby InkL0sed on Sun Sep 07, 2008 7:54 pm

Yeah, that's the way to go, honestly. Game play trumps accuracy anyway.
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Re: Land And Water v2p4 gameplay talk

Postby The Neon Peon on Fri Sep 19, 2008 7:56 pm

Split the map into way more territories, and this will have good gameplay. Just enlarge it, split it, and then some more. And after you think you are done, divide it up into even more territories.
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Re: Land And Water v2p4 gameplay talk

Postby edbeard on Sat Sep 20, 2008 3:18 pm

The Neon Peon wrote:Split the map into way more territories, and this will have good gameplay. Just enlarge it, split it, and then some more. And after you think you are done, divide it up into even more territories.


seems like a weird request. why would you say something like th...what's that? click here?

oh. ohhh.


yea I don't think so. sorry. this is the territory size I want for this map.
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Re: Land And Water v2p4 gameplay talk

Postby InkL0sed on Sat Sep 20, 2008 3:21 pm

Aww, and I thought there was something going on in this thread... :(

What's the latest on this map?
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Re: Land And Water v2p4 gameplay talk

Postby edbeard on Sun Sep 21, 2008 12:55 am

nothing at the moment. when Haiti gets quenched I'll do a gameplay update and see if I can get a few more people in here to seriously figure out if the gameplay is working. one thing I need to do is add another territory. like I said before it'll probably go in the pacific.

I'll probably have to put territory names and circles and see how the small map is going to look.
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Re: Land And Water v2p4 gameplay talk

Postby edbeard on Fri Oct 17, 2008 7:07 pm

I posted this idea in a foundry discussion thread but I'll post it here to see what people think.

At one point while thinking about this map I thought about using the Classic image and adding water territories but I didn't do that for a few reasons. The number of water territories wouldn't be that high. The image would be very crowded. And, most importantly, I wanted this map to have it's own identity. But, considering the old map is gone, maybe it'd be something people would enjoy and I'm open to it. Anyone have a copy of the old image? perhaps PM it to me so I can see how much of a possibility it'd be.
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Re: Land And Water v2p4 gameplay talk

Postby MrBenn on Wed Oct 22, 2008 8:46 am

I'm surprised there isn't more discussion about this map...

Ed, give us some direction [-o<
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PB: 2661 | He's blue... If he were green he would die | No mod would be stupid enough to do that
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Re: Land And Water v2p4 gameplay talk

Postby Natewolfman on Wed Oct 22, 2008 8:49 am

you should turn the arrows into ports i think... when i see arrows i usually think passage way over mountains or over the river or something... but making them look like ports would seem more natural to this map i think
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Re: Land And Water v2p4 gameplay talk

Postby edbeard on Wed Oct 22, 2008 7:12 pm

Click image to enlarge.
image


What you need to know:

1. 52 territories (31 land and 21 water)
2. 10 continents



MrBenn wrote:I'm surprised there isn't more discussion about this map...

Ed, give us some direction [-o<


me too. more about this below.


Natewolfman wrote:you should turn the arrows into ports i think... when i see arrows i usually think passage way over mountains or over the river or something... but making them look like ports would seem more natural to this map i think


maybe. I'll leave this to whoever does the graphics. Again, I'm not gonna do 'em. If I have to get a gameplay stamp first before getting a graphicitician that's fine. I appreciate the comment but how about some gameplay comments!?! :D



DIRECTION and FOCUS


1. Gameplay, gameplay, gameplay. I realize the image looks very shitty. I'm not working on that. It's more than good enough for us to hammer out the gameplay. Let's get the gameplay done.


2. Lack of discussion is partly due to the lack of gameplay talk. I've added another territory to the pacific continent so we're at a good starting number. If you make a gameplay comment, I'll respond to it and other people will do the same.


3. Specifically...

a. how do you think the bonuses are? What would you change?

b. how do you like where the land-water connections are? which would you change (don't forget to comment on how this should/would change the continent bonuses)?


4. What doesn't really help are comments that are purely about changing the direction to something you'd prefer (EG: "you should put more territories on the map"). I think the basics are good on this map. However, if you disagree, tell me why and give me reasons why your idea would work. Hopefully you'd also give me ideas on ways to improve the way I have the map in the direction I'm taking it.
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Re: Land And Water v3p5 gameplay talk

Postby edbeard on Wed Oct 22, 2008 7:17 pm

who is the guy that frequently does long analysis on gameplay and bonuses on maps? I'd like to PM him to take a look here and see if we can get discussion going.
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Re: Land And Water v3p5 gameplay talk

Postby ZeakCytho on Wed Oct 22, 2008 7:50 pm

I think you're usually the one who does that, Ed ;) I'm not as good as you, but I'll try.

And...I just had a really long post written out, but my browser ate it. Here's the short version:

I'd make Oceania and South America +2 instead of +1, but they could work as +1s
If you keep those two the same, I'd make the Indian Ocean +2 instead of +3. If you change them, keep this the same.
You might want to consider making the Atlantic a +5
Consider adding another territory or two to Eurasia so it is a more justifiable +6
Perhaps make the Pacific +5?

All of your bonuses just seem a bit low, but maybe they work better that way. As I said, I'm not very good at this.
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Re: Land And Water v3p5 gameplay talk

Postby edbeard on Wed Oct 22, 2008 8:11 pm

ZeakCytho wrote:I think you're usually the one who does that, Ed ;) I'm not as good as you, but I'll try.

And...I just had a really long post written out, but my browser ate it. Here's the short version:


true but there's someone else who does them on occasion but I can't remember his username or any map threads which he/she's done it. too bad about losing the post.



ZeakCytho wrote:I'd make Oceania and South America +2 instead of +1, but they could work as +1s
If you keep those two the same, I'd make the Indian Ocean +2 instead of +3. If you change them, keep this the same.
You might want to consider making the Atlantic a +5
Consider adding another territory or two to Eurasia so it is a more justifiable +6
Perhaps make the Pacific +5?

All of your bonuses just seem a bit low, but maybe they work better that way. As I said, I'm not very good at this.


The +1's are because I hate people dropping a small +2 continent and dominating because of it. But, we'll see how other people feel.

I don't buy the Indian Ocean remark because it has 3 borders against 5 continents. Plus being 5 territories means it won't be gotten on the drop that often.

Yea Atlantic is definitely at least a +5. I don't like making something a large bonus simply because it borders a ton of continents but it does border 8 continents which means only one continent does NOT border the Atlantic. hmm. perhaps this should change somehow.

I'm a bit surprised by your Eurasia comment. 9 territories is a lot. It does only have 4 borders against 4 continents though. maybe something should change here too. more territories is something I'd like to avoid simply because space is a big issue.

Pacific does border 6 continents. it has 6 territories. 4 of them are borders though. 5 is something to consider though.

thanks!
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Re: Land And Water v3p5 gameplay talk

Postby edbeard on Thu Oct 23, 2008 8:34 pm

it's onbekende who I was thinking of

carry on
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Re: Land And Water v3p5 gameplay talk

Postby ZeakCytho on Thu Oct 23, 2008 10:51 pm

edbeard wrote:The +1's are because I hate people dropping a small +2 continent and dominating because of it. But, we'll see how other people feel.


It is annoying seeing people drop with +2s (A certain Haiti game comes to mind...;)), but if no one drops with them, would anyone really put the effort into taking 4 territories with two borders for just a +1? I guess if the other bonuses are relatively low this isn't an issue.

edbeard wrote:I don't buy the Indian Ocean remark because it has 3 borders against 5 continents. Plus being 5 territories means it won't be gotten on the drop that often.

Okay, keep it the way it is then.

edbeard wrote:Yea Atlantic is definitely at least a +5. I don't like making something a large bonus simply because it borders a ton of continents but it does border 8 continents which means only one continent does NOT border the Atlantic. hmm. perhaps this should change somehow.

Well, it's going to be hard to really mess with the borders, unless you remove a land-water connection to the Atlantic, which I'd advise against, because then you lose a part of the connection between land and water. If the whole point of this map is the dual existence of land and water, shouldn't you have as many connections as possible? I suppose if it makes for better gameplay you could drop one of the connections. I can't see a way to redraw the territories to reduce the number of borders. Thus I think just giving it a +5 is the easiest solution.

edbeard wrote:I'm a bit surprised by your Eurasia comment. 9 territories is a lot. It does only have 4 borders against 4 continents though. maybe something should change here too. more territories is something I'd like to avoid simply because space is a big issue.

+6 is a lot of men for just holding 4 borders. I think 9 territories is a bit too easy to get the +6 with. Consider Classic in Europe, which is only 7 territories with 4 borders but has a +5. At the same time, though, +5 is too low for Eurasia. So I think increasing the number of territories to 10 would make this a clearer +6.

edbeard wrote:Pacific does border 6 continents. it has 6 territories. 4 of them are borders though. 5 is something to consider though.

When I counted the Pacific, I thought it was 9 territories :oops: . I assumed that each side of the map had separate territories; not that the territories wrapped around. I assume this will be much clearer in the good graphics version, but the +4 makes much more sense to me now.

edbeard wrote:thanks!

No prob :)
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