Land and Sea [Quenched]

Care to peruse completed maps? Take a stroll through the Atlas.

Moderators: Cartographers, Global Moderators

Forum rules
Please read the Community Guidelines before posting.

Re: Land And Water v2p4 gameplay talk

Postby edbeard on Sun Sep 07, 2008 7:25 pm

MrBenn wrote:You could add a territory into the Med??

Instead of using arrows, surely ports/docks would make sense? Is there any real-world rationale for picking the places you have?



that'd be quite a mess considering how crunched up it is already in the europe area. And, this is the large map.


like I said, I'm just using the arrows for gameplay discussion but a good suggestion to keep in mind for whoever does the graphics.

there really isn't much real-world rationale for them. I'm shamelessly doing them for gameplay purposes because this is for a game. I'm sure I can find rivers and ports in all those areas and rationalize them that way (but that's not what you mean) but, yea, it's about the gameplay right now.
User avatar
Major edbeard
 
Posts: 2501
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2007 12:41 am
Medals: 18
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3)
Tournament Achievement (1) Map Contribution (5) General Contribution (3)

Re: Land And Water v2p4 gameplay talk

Postby InkL0sed on Sun Sep 07, 2008 7:54 pm

Yeah, that's the way to go, honestly. Game play trumps accuracy anyway.
User avatar
Lieutenant InkL0sed
 
Posts: 2379
Joined: Sat Jun 23, 2007 4:06 pm
Location: underwater
Medals: 23
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (2) Fog of War Achievement (2) Trench Warfare Achievement (1) Speed Achievement (2)
Teammate Achievement (2) Cross-Map Achievement (3)

Re: Land And Water v2p4 gameplay talk

Postby The Neon Peon on Fri Sep 19, 2008 7:56 pm

Split the map into way more territories, and this will have good gameplay. Just enlarge it, split it, and then some more. And after you think you are done, divide it up into even more territories.
User avatar
Lieutenant The Neon Peon
 
Posts: 2342
Joined: Sat Jun 14, 2008 12:49 pm
Medals: 31
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (1) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (3) Manual Troops Achievement (2) Freestyle Achievement (3) Fog of War Achievement (3) Speed Achievement (3)
Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (1) Tournament Achievement (2) General Achievement (3)

Re: Land And Water v2p4 gameplay talk

Postby edbeard on Sat Sep 20, 2008 3:18 pm

The Neon Peon wrote:Split the map into way more territories, and this will have good gameplay. Just enlarge it, split it, and then some more. And after you think you are done, divide it up into even more territories.


seems like a weird request. why would you say something like th...what's that? click here?

oh. ohhh.


yea I don't think so. sorry. this is the territory size I want for this map.
User avatar
Major edbeard
 
Posts: 2501
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2007 12:41 am
Medals: 18
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3)
Tournament Achievement (1) Map Contribution (5) General Contribution (3)

Re: Land And Water v2p4 gameplay talk

Postby InkL0sed on Sat Sep 20, 2008 3:21 pm

Aww, and I thought there was something going on in this thread... :(

What's the latest on this map?
User avatar
Lieutenant InkL0sed
 
Posts: 2379
Joined: Sat Jun 23, 2007 4:06 pm
Location: underwater
Medals: 23
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (2) Fog of War Achievement (2) Trench Warfare Achievement (1) Speed Achievement (2)
Teammate Achievement (2) Cross-Map Achievement (3)

Re: Land And Water v2p4 gameplay talk

Postby edbeard on Sun Sep 21, 2008 12:55 am

nothing at the moment. when Haiti gets quenched I'll do a gameplay update and see if I can get a few more people in here to seriously figure out if the gameplay is working. one thing I need to do is add another territory. like I said before it'll probably go in the pacific.

I'll probably have to put territory names and circles and see how the small map is going to look.
User avatar
Major edbeard
 
Posts: 2501
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2007 12:41 am
Medals: 18
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3)
Tournament Achievement (1) Map Contribution (5) General Contribution (3)

Re: Land And Water v2p4 gameplay talk

Postby edbeard on Fri Oct 17, 2008 7:07 pm

I posted this idea in a foundry discussion thread but I'll post it here to see what people think.

At one point while thinking about this map I thought about using the Classic image and adding water territories but I didn't do that for a few reasons. The number of water territories wouldn't be that high. The image would be very crowded. And, most importantly, I wanted this map to have it's own identity. But, considering the old map is gone, maybe it'd be something people would enjoy and I'm open to it. Anyone have a copy of the old image? perhaps PM it to me so I can see how much of a possibility it'd be.
User avatar
Major edbeard
 
Posts: 2501
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2007 12:41 am
Medals: 18
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3)
Tournament Achievement (1) Map Contribution (5) General Contribution (3)

Re: Land And Water v2p4 gameplay talk

Postby MrBenn on Wed Oct 22, 2008 8:46 am

I'm surprised there isn't more discussion about this map...

Ed, give us some direction [-o<
Image
PB: 2661 | He's blue... If he were green he would die | No mod would be stupid enough to do that
User avatar
Lieutenant MrBenn
Retired Team Member
 
Posts: 7051
Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2007 9:32 am
Location: Off Duty
Medals: 67
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (3) Freestyle Achievement (2) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (2) Fog of War Achievement (3)
Speed Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (2) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (3) Tournament Achievement (2)
General Achievement (6) Clan Achievement (1) Map Contribution (7) Tournament Contribution (2) General Contribution (15)

Re: Land And Water v2p4 gameplay talk

Postby Natewolfman on Wed Oct 22, 2008 8:49 am

you should turn the arrows into ports i think... when i see arrows i usually think passage way over mountains or over the river or something... but making them look like ports would seem more natural to this map i think
User avatar
Sergeant 1st Class Natewolfman
 
Posts: 4638
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2007 6:37 pm
Location: omaha, NE
Medals: 75
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (3) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (2) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (2)
Speed Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (3) Tournament Achievement (11) General Achievement (2)
Clan Achievement (2) Tournament Contribution (30) General Contribution (1)

Re: Land And Water v2p4 gameplay talk

Postby edbeard on Wed Oct 22, 2008 7:12 pm

Click image to enlarge.
image


What you need to know:

1. 52 territories (31 land and 21 water)
2. 10 continents



MrBenn wrote:I'm surprised there isn't more discussion about this map...

Ed, give us some direction [-o<


me too. more about this below.


Natewolfman wrote:you should turn the arrows into ports i think... when i see arrows i usually think passage way over mountains or over the river or something... but making them look like ports would seem more natural to this map i think


maybe. I'll leave this to whoever does the graphics. Again, I'm not gonna do 'em. If I have to get a gameplay stamp first before getting a graphicitician that's fine. I appreciate the comment but how about some gameplay comments!?! :D



DIRECTION and FOCUS


1. Gameplay, gameplay, gameplay. I realize the image looks very shitty. I'm not working on that. It's more than good enough for us to hammer out the gameplay. Let's get the gameplay done.


2. Lack of discussion is partly due to the lack of gameplay talk. I've added another territory to the pacific continent so we're at a good starting number. If you make a gameplay comment, I'll respond to it and other people will do the same.


3. Specifically...

a. how do you think the bonuses are? What would you change?

b. how do you like where the land-water connections are? which would you change (don't forget to comment on how this should/would change the continent bonuses)?


4. What doesn't really help are comments that are purely about changing the direction to something you'd prefer (EG: "you should put more territories on the map"). I think the basics are good on this map. However, if you disagree, tell me why and give me reasons why your idea would work. Hopefully you'd also give me ideas on ways to improve the way I have the map in the direction I'm taking it.
User avatar
Major edbeard
 
Posts: 2501
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2007 12:41 am
Medals: 18
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3)
Tournament Achievement (1) Map Contribution (5) General Contribution (3)

Re: Land And Water v3p5 gameplay talk

Postby edbeard on Wed Oct 22, 2008 7:17 pm

who is the guy that frequently does long analysis on gameplay and bonuses on maps? I'd like to PM him to take a look here and see if we can get discussion going.
User avatar
Major edbeard
 
Posts: 2501
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2007 12:41 am
Medals: 18
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3)
Tournament Achievement (1) Map Contribution (5) General Contribution (3)

Re: Land And Water v3p5 gameplay talk

Postby ZeakCytho on Wed Oct 22, 2008 7:50 pm

I think you're usually the one who does that, Ed ;) I'm not as good as you, but I'll try.

And...I just had a really long post written out, but my browser ate it. Here's the short version:

I'd make Oceania and South America +2 instead of +1, but they could work as +1s
If you keep those two the same, I'd make the Indian Ocean +2 instead of +3. If you change them, keep this the same.
You might want to consider making the Atlantic a +5
Consider adding another territory or two to Eurasia so it is a more justifiable +6
Perhaps make the Pacific +5?

All of your bonuses just seem a bit low, but maybe they work better that way. As I said, I'm not very good at this.
User avatar
Captain ZeakCytho
 
Posts: 1251
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2007 4:36 pm
Medals: 18
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (2) Fog of War Achievement (1)
Speed Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (3) Map Contribution (2) General Contribution (1)

Re: Land And Water v3p5 gameplay talk

Postby edbeard on Wed Oct 22, 2008 8:11 pm

ZeakCytho wrote:I think you're usually the one who does that, Ed ;) I'm not as good as you, but I'll try.

And...I just had a really long post written out, but my browser ate it. Here's the short version:


true but there's someone else who does them on occasion but I can't remember his username or any map threads which he/she's done it. too bad about losing the post.



ZeakCytho wrote:I'd make Oceania and South America +2 instead of +1, but they could work as +1s
If you keep those two the same, I'd make the Indian Ocean +2 instead of +3. If you change them, keep this the same.
You might want to consider making the Atlantic a +5
Consider adding another territory or two to Eurasia so it is a more justifiable +6
Perhaps make the Pacific +5?

All of your bonuses just seem a bit low, but maybe they work better that way. As I said, I'm not very good at this.


The +1's are because I hate people dropping a small +2 continent and dominating because of it. But, we'll see how other people feel.

I don't buy the Indian Ocean remark because it has 3 borders against 5 continents. Plus being 5 territories means it won't be gotten on the drop that often.

Yea Atlantic is definitely at least a +5. I don't like making something a large bonus simply because it borders a ton of continents but it does border 8 continents which means only one continent does NOT border the Atlantic. hmm. perhaps this should change somehow.

I'm a bit surprised by your Eurasia comment. 9 territories is a lot. It does only have 4 borders against 4 continents though. maybe something should change here too. more territories is something I'd like to avoid simply because space is a big issue.

Pacific does border 6 continents. it has 6 territories. 4 of them are borders though. 5 is something to consider though.

thanks!
User avatar
Major edbeard
 
Posts: 2501
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2007 12:41 am
Medals: 18
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3)
Tournament Achievement (1) Map Contribution (5) General Contribution (3)

Re: Land And Water v3p5 gameplay talk

Postby edbeard on Thu Oct 23, 2008 8:34 pm

it's onbekende who I was thinking of

carry on
User avatar
Major edbeard
 
Posts: 2501
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2007 12:41 am
Medals: 18
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3)
Tournament Achievement (1) Map Contribution (5) General Contribution (3)

Re: Land And Water v3p5 gameplay talk

Postby ZeakCytho on Thu Oct 23, 2008 10:51 pm

edbeard wrote:The +1's are because I hate people dropping a small +2 continent and dominating because of it. But, we'll see how other people feel.


It is annoying seeing people drop with +2s (A certain Haiti game comes to mind...;)), but if no one drops with them, would anyone really put the effort into taking 4 territories with two borders for just a +1? I guess if the other bonuses are relatively low this isn't an issue.

edbeard wrote:I don't buy the Indian Ocean remark because it has 3 borders against 5 continents. Plus being 5 territories means it won't be gotten on the drop that often.

Okay, keep it the way it is then.

edbeard wrote:Yea Atlantic is definitely at least a +5. I don't like making something a large bonus simply because it borders a ton of continents but it does border 8 continents which means only one continent does NOT border the Atlantic. hmm. perhaps this should change somehow.

Well, it's going to be hard to really mess with the borders, unless you remove a land-water connection to the Atlantic, which I'd advise against, because then you lose a part of the connection between land and water. If the whole point of this map is the dual existence of land and water, shouldn't you have as many connections as possible? I suppose if it makes for better gameplay you could drop one of the connections. I can't see a way to redraw the territories to reduce the number of borders. Thus I think just giving it a +5 is the easiest solution.

edbeard wrote:I'm a bit surprised by your Eurasia comment. 9 territories is a lot. It does only have 4 borders against 4 continents though. maybe something should change here too. more territories is something I'd like to avoid simply because space is a big issue.

+6 is a lot of men for just holding 4 borders. I think 9 territories is a bit too easy to get the +6 with. Consider Classic in Europe, which is only 7 territories with 4 borders but has a +5. At the same time, though, +5 is too low for Eurasia. So I think increasing the number of territories to 10 would make this a clearer +6.

edbeard wrote:Pacific does border 6 continents. it has 6 territories. 4 of them are borders though. 5 is something to consider though.

When I counted the Pacific, I thought it was 9 territories :oops: . I assumed that each side of the map had separate territories; not that the territories wrapped around. I assume this will be much clearer in the good graphics version, but the +4 makes much more sense to me now.

edbeard wrote:thanks!

No prob :)
User avatar
Captain ZeakCytho
 
Posts: 1251
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2007 4:36 pm
Medals: 18
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (2) Fog of War Achievement (1)
Speed Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (3) Map Contribution (2) General Contribution (1)

Re: Land And Water v3p5 gameplay talk

Postby edbeard on Fri Oct 24, 2008 1:07 am

ZeakCytho wrote:
edbeard wrote:The +1's are because I hate people dropping a small +2 continent and dominating because of it. But, we'll see how other people feel.


It is annoying seeing people drop with +2s (A certain Haiti game comes to mind...;)), but if no one drops with them, would anyone really put the effort into taking 4 territories with two borders for just a +1? I guess if the other bonuses are relatively low this isn't an issue.


they're actually 3 territories. I think you'd now agree the +1's are apt?



ZeakCytho wrote:
edbeard wrote:Yea Atlantic is definitely at least a +5. I don't like making something a large bonus simply because it borders a ton of continents but it does border 8 continents which means only one continent does NOT border the Atlantic. hmm. perhaps this should change somehow.

Well, it's going to be hard to really mess with the borders, unless you remove a land-water connection to the Atlantic, which I'd advise against, because then you lose a part of the connection between land and water. If the whole point of this map is the dual existence of land and water, shouldn't you have as many connections as possible? I suppose if it makes for better gameplay you could drop one of the connections. I can't see a way to redraw the territories to reduce the number of borders. Thus I think just giving it a +5 is the easiest solution.


the +5 definitely makes sense but I was really just talking about how it'd be possible to have other places border africa and Eurasia (indian ocean and arctic ocean). I just can't think of another map offhand that has a continent which borders so many other continents. it just might be an area of concern and something to keep thinking about.



ZeakCytho wrote:
edbeard wrote:I'm a bit surprised by your Eurasia comment. 9 territories is a lot. It does only have 4 borders against 4 continents though. maybe something should change here too. more territories is something I'd like to avoid simply because space is a big issue.

+6 is a lot of men for just holding 4 borders. I think 9 territories is a bit too easy to get the +6 with. Consider Classic in Europe, which is only 7 territories with 4 borders but has a +5. At the same time, though, +5 is too low for Eurasia. So I think increasing the number of territories to 10 would make this a clearer +6.


I will think about this more.


ZeakCytho wrote:
edbeard wrote:Pacific does border 6 continents. it has 6 territories. 4 of them are borders though. 5 is something to consider though.

When I counted the Pacific, I thought it was 9 territories :oops: . I assumed that each side of the map had separate territories; not that the territories wrapped around. I assume this will be much clearer in the good graphics version, but the +4 makes much more sense to me now.


it will be much clearer, yes. Army circle on one side. Territory label on the other. I'm sure a few people will still screw that up but I feel that's more than enough. Ok well perhaps (since likely the legend will have blank space), we should put a remark in the legend too just to be 150% sure.
User avatar
Major edbeard
 
Posts: 2501
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2007 12:41 am
Medals: 18
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3)
Tournament Achievement (1) Map Contribution (5) General Contribution (3)

Re: Land And Water v3p5 gameplay talk

Postby ZeakCytho on Fri Oct 24, 2008 11:40 am

edbeard wrote:
ZeakCytho wrote:
edbeard wrote:The +1's are because I hate people dropping a small +2 continent and dominating because of it. But, we'll see how other people feel.


It is annoying seeing people drop with +2s (A certain Haiti game comes to mind...;)), but if no one drops with them, would anyone really put the effort into taking 4 territories with two borders for just a +1? I guess if the other bonuses are relatively low this isn't an issue.


they're actually 3 territories. I think you'd now agree the +1's are apt?


Hmm...Well, I suppose. It's really a tricky decision. I guess +1s work - and if it doesn't, you can always change it in Beta, right?

Edbeard wrote:the +5 definitely makes sense but I was really just talking about how it'd be possible to have other places border africa and Eurasia (indian ocean and arctic ocean). I just can't think of another map offhand that has a continent which borders so many other continents. it just might be an area of concern and something to keep thinking about.

It does border a lot, but I'm not sure this is a major problem. Again, though, I'm no expert at predicting gameplay.

I think this is ready for an advanced draft?
User avatar
Captain ZeakCytho
 
Posts: 1251
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2007 4:36 pm
Medals: 18
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (2) Fog of War Achievement (1)
Speed Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (3) Map Contribution (2) General Contribution (1)

Re: Land And Water v3p5 gameplay talk

Postby onbekende on Sat Oct 25, 2008 7:58 am

edbeard wrote:who is the guy that frequently does long analysis on gameplay and bonuses on maps? I'd like to PM him to take a look here and see if we can get discussion going.

I be famous :o (and its "he" btw :D)

as for th current map, only South America and Australia need a +2 bonus instead of a +1 bonus.

But I got something else in mind for this map, but don't have time to do it at this point, but should be done tonight thou :D
Emperor of the Benelux
Founder of the Commonwealth of Planets
Founder and CEO of JF
User avatar
Sergeant onbekende
 
Posts: 1530
Joined: Fri Apr 14, 2006 10:19 am
Location: Belgium
Medals: 16
Standard Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (3)
Fog of War Achievement (1) Trench Warfare Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Clan Achievement (2)

Re: Land And Water v3p5 gameplay talk

Postby onbekende on Sat Oct 25, 2008 7:21 pm

This is a very simple change, everything that has a mutual border, borders eachother. This not only opens much gameplay, its also very easely to do here.

forgive my l33t paint skills, you should be able to read the numbers (and I added names already to in this explaination, so people who can't read and don't know a single country in the world may leave now :D

Click image to enlarge.
image


I will just add the basic bonuses now as I calculate them always.

North America: 7 terr, 7 def/att, 4 cont => Bonus of 7 (perhaps a 6, douptfull thou)
South America: 3 terr, 3 def/att, 3 cont => Bonus of 3 (good)
Eurasia: 9 terr, 8 def/att, 6 cont => Bonus of 8 (good, big thing, will be fought over, and has the only inter-continent territorie)
Africa: 5 terr, 5 def/att, 3 cont => Bonus of 5 (seems well for its position)
Oceania: 3 terr, 3 def/att, 3 cont => Bonus of 3 (good)
Pacific: 6 terr, 6 def/att, 7 cont => Bonus of 7 (could be better a 6, this map doesn't go well for "bonus>#terr")
Atlantic: 7 terr, 7 def/att, 8 cont => Bonus of 8 (as said with Pacific, better a 7 just he :D)
Arctic: 4 terr, 4 def/att, 4 cont => Bonus of 4 (good)
Indian: 4 terr, 4 def/att, 6 cont => Bonus of 5 (indeed a 4 is better)
Antarctica: 4 terr, 4 def/att, 3 cont => Bonus of 4 (good)

so it seems that they almost all get the same amount of bonus as they have territories, which makes for interesting and straight forward playstyle!

Now I will do every 1 single territory to shed light on its borders, and say why there are 2 sea-sea routes extra.

North America:
1) Alaska
- Borders: N.A. 2, Pacific 1, Pacific 2, Arctic 1
- possibility to add link to Euroasia 8, thou I don't see the need.
2) West Canada
- Borders: N.A. 1, N.A. 3, N.A. 4, N.A. 5, Pacific 2, Arctic 1
- note that there is no link to the Atlantic here, pleace keep it this way or N.A. becomes a doormat between Atlantic and Pacific in a way that screws over both Oceans
3) East Canada
- Borders: N.A. 2, N.A. 4, N.A. 5, N.A. 6, Atlantic 1, Atlantic 3, Atlantic 4
- possibility to moving the Atlantic 3-4 border to cancel the border with Atlantic 4
4) Arctic Islands
- Borders: N.A. 2, N.A. 3, Atlantic 1, Atlantic 2, Arctic 1, Arctic 2
- good as it is
5) West U.S.A.
- Borders: N.A. 2, N.A. 3, N.A. 6, N.A. 7, Pacific 2, Atlantic 4
- would be nicer without the Atlantic link
6) East U.S.A.
- Borders: N.A. 3, N.A. 5, Atlantic 4
- will get links to both N.A. 7 and Atlantic 3, which I find fitting
7) Middle America
- Borders: N.A. 5, S.A. 1, Pacific 2, Pacific 3, Atlantic 4
- with the sea-sea route over it, it will still be used, but as a buffer or staging

South America:
1) Greater Columbia
- Borders: S.A. 2, S.A. 3, Pacific 3, Atlantic 3, Atlantic 4
- nice name no? :D
2) Brazil
- Borders: S.A. 1, S.A. 3, Atlantic 3, Atlantic 5, Atlantic 6
- correct english name, needed to think about it :(
3) Southern Cone
- Borders: S.A. 1, S.A. 2, Pacific 3, Pacific 6, Atlantic 6
- you may google the name, but it is correct

Eurasia:
1) West Europe
- Borders: Eurasia 3, Africa 1, Atlantic 2, Arctic 2
- nothing special here, the Africa 1 connection is thruw Gibraltar he :D
2) Scandinavia
- Borders: Eurasia 3, Eurasia 4, Euroasia 5, Artic 2, Artic 3
- I know someone of sweden :D
3) Europa
- Borders: Eurasia 1, Eurasia 2, Eurasia 4, Eurasia 5, Atlantic 2
- simple name, make the boot of Italia red please.
4) Eurussia
- Borders: Eurasia 2, Eurasia 3, Eurasia 5, Eurasia 6, Eurasia 8, Arctic 3
- nice name no? :D
5) Middle East
- Borders: Eurasia 3, Eurasia 4, Eurasia 6, Eurasia 7, Africa 2, Africa 4, Indian 1
- 2 inroutes into Africa will help a possible need to break east from Indian
6) Central Asia
- Borders: Eurasia 4, Eurasia 5, Eurasia 7, Eurasia 8, Eurasia 9
- as already said and obvious you already saw, the only intercontinent territory
7) British Indies
- Borders: Eurasia 5, Eurasia 6, Eurasia 9, Indian 1
- seems a fitting name for the size
8 ) North Asia
- Borders: Eurasia 4, Eurasia 6, Eurasia 9, Artic 1, Artic 3, Artic 4, Pacific 1
- name fits better then "Siberia" or "Cold Russia", possibility with connection to N.A. 1 thou unneeded
9) East Asia
- Borders: Earasia 6, Eurasia 7, Eurasia 8, Oceania 1, Pacific 1, Indian 1
- big red blob :o

Africa:
1) West Africa
- Borders: Africa 2, Africa 3, Eurasia 1, Atlantic 2, Atlantic 3, Atlantic 5
- make the territory a bit rounder by adding the small African nations below the Sahel (part of Africa 3)
2) Egyptian Empire
- Borders: Africa 1, Africa 3, Africa 4, Africa 5, Eurasia 5
- nice name no?
3) Central Africa
- Borders: Africa 1, Africa 2, Africa 5, Atlantic 5
- so get some land from Africa 3 (this) to Africa 1
4) Horn of Africa
- Borders: Africa 2, Africa 5, Eurasia 5, Indian 1
- nothing special
5) South Africa
- Borders: Africa 2, Africa 3, Africa 4, Atlantic 5, Atlantic 7, Indian 1, Indian 3
- nothing special

Oceania:
1) Far East
- Borders: Oceania 2, Eurasia 9, Pacific 1, Indian 1, Indian 2
- You don't make it easy here, seeing as this part is technically still Asia but not Euroasia nor Oceania :s
2) Melanesia
- Borders: Oceania 1, Oceania 3, Pacific 1, Pacific 4, Indian 2
- the name is from wiki :D
3) Australia
- Borders: Oceania 2, Pacific 4, Padific 5, Indian 2, Indian 4
- no comment

Pacific:
1) Northwest Pacific
- Borders: Pacific 2, Pacific 3, Pacific 4, Eurasia 8, Eurasia 9, Oceania 1, Oceania 2, Indian 1, Artic 1, N.A. 1
- catchy name aint it?
2) Northeast Pacific
- Borders: Pacific 1, Pacific 3, N.A. 1, N.A. 2, N.A. 5, N.A. 7
- again a catchy name
3) Centraleast Pacific
- Borders: Pacific 1, Pacific 2, Pacific 4, Pacific 5, Pacific 6, N.A. 7, S.A. 1, S.A. 3, Atlantic 4
- you may trim the south edge of this territory a bit, but don't lose borders
4) Centralwest Pacific
- Borders: Pacific 1, pacific 3, Pacific 5, Oceania 2, Oceania 3
- nothing special
5) Southwest Pacific
- Borders: Pacific 3, Pacific 4, Pacific 6, Oceania 3, Indian 4, Antarctica 1, Antarctica 4
- nothing special
6) Southeast Pacific
- Borders: Pacific 3, Pacific 5, S.A. 3, Atlantic 4, Antarctica 1, Antarctica 2
- last of the beautifull named Pacific Ocean territories

Atlantic:
1) Labrador Sea
- Borders: Atlantic 2, Atlantic 3, N.A. 3, N.A. 4
- nothing special
2) North Atlantic
- Borders: Atlantic 1, Atlantic 3, Eurasia 1, Africa 1, N.A. 4, Artic 2
- nothing special
3) North Atlantic Ridge
- Borders: Atlantic 1, Atlantic 2, Atlantic 4, Atlantic 5, Africa 1, N.A. 3, S.A. 1, S.A. 2
- asked for connection to N.A. 6, like the name btw?
4) Carribian
- Borders: Atlantic 3, Pacific 3, N.A. 3, N.A. 5, N.A. 6, N.A. 7, S.A. 1
- so no connection to N.A. 3 anymore please, the connection to the pacific makes both great oceans a strategic and annoying playingpoint
5) South Atlantic Ridga
- Borders: Atlantic 3, Atlantic 6, Atlantic 7, Africa 1, Africa 3, Africa 5, S.A. 2
- nothing special
6) Southwest Atlantic
- Borders: Atlantic 5, Atlantic 7, S.A. 2, S.A. 3, Antarctica 2, Pacific 6
- nothing special
7) Southeast Atlantic
- Borders: Atlantic 5, Atlantic 6, Africa 5, Antarctica 2, Antarctica 3, Indian 3
- nothing special

Arctic:
1) Chukchi Sea
- Borders: Arctic 2, Arctic 4, N.A. 1, N.A. 2, N.A. 4 Eurasia 8, Pacific 1
- possiblity to retract the border and lose the N.A. 4 link, thou unneeded in my opinion
2) Greenland Sea
- Borders: Arctic 1, Arctic 3, N.A. 4, Eurasia 1, Eurasia 2, Eurasia 3, Pacific 2
- nothing special
3) Barents Sea
- Borders: Arctic 2, Arctic 4, Eurasia 2, Eurasia 4, Eurasia 8
- make sure you know this section borders Scandinavia
4) Kara Sea
- Borders: Arctic 1, Arctic 3, Eurasia 8
- was a fitting name

Indian:
1) North Indian
- Borders: Indian 2, Indian 3, Indian 4, Eurasia 5, Eurasia 7, Eurasia 9, pacific 1, Oceania 1, Africa 4, Africa 5
- think this territorie has the most borders, am I correct?
2) East Indian
- Borders: Indian 1, Indian 4, Oceaia 1, Oceania 2, Oceania 3
- easy name
3) Southwest Indian
- Borders: Indian 1, Indian 4, Africa 5, Atlantic 7, Antarctica 3
- nothing special
4) Southeast Indian
- Borders: Indian 1, Indian 2, Indian 3, Oceania 3, Pacific 5, Antarctica 3, Antarctica 4

Antarctica:
1) Marie Byrd Land
- Borders: Antarctica 2, Antarctica 4, Pacific 5, Pacific 6
- nothing special
2) British Claim
- Borders: Antarctica 1, Antarctica 3, Pacific 6, Altantic 6, Atlantic 7
- nothing special
3) Norwegian Claim
- Borders: Antarctica 2, Antarctica 4, Atlantic 7, Indian 3, Indian 4
- nothing special
4) Australian Claim
- Borders: Antarctica 1, Antarctica 3, Indian 4, Pacifican 5




that was alot :o, but thats what I got to say
Emperor of the Benelux
Founder of the Commonwealth of Planets
Founder and CEO of JF
User avatar
Sergeant onbekende
 
Posts: 1530
Joined: Fri Apr 14, 2006 10:19 am
Location: Belgium
Medals: 16
Standard Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (3)
Fog of War Achievement (1) Trench Warfare Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Clan Achievement (2)

Re: Land And Water v3p5 gameplay talk

Postby Ditocoaf on Sun Oct 26, 2008 1:15 pm

Personally, I feel that no matter what you choose for the land/water borders, it'll always feel needlessly contrived and arbitrary, on a map that we know well. I think this XML suggestion is perfect for this map (check it out before continuing).

I would love to see a map where you battle on the land, and battle simultaneously, but separately, on the water. The only way one could effect the other is via fortifications. It would need to have an objective of owning all of the oceans, or all of the continents.
Image

>----------✪ Try to take down the champion in the continuous IPW/GIL tournament! ✪----------<

Note to self: THINK LESS LIVE MORE
Private 1st Class Ditocoaf
 
Posts: 1054
Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2008 9:17 pm
Location: Being eaten by the worms and weird fishes
Medals: 2
Ratings Achievement (1) Tournament Achievement (1)

Re: Land And Water v3p5 gameplay talk

Postby edbeard on Sun Oct 26, 2008 3:51 pm

well Dito the XML suggestion in general is a cool one. I don't think it's something I want to use here though. I want this to be a fairly straightforward map and that's anything but straightforward. Even if there were no connections like that, I don't like the idea of never being able to go somewhere if you don't drop there. Not on this type of map. A better solution for your 'problem' with this map would be what onbe suggested (everything connects to everything). I don't think I'm a fan of that idea either. It puts far too much openness in the map for my tastes. It might be good on a map where you can control the borders (inside and outside the continents) to make it so you don't have to hold every territory. But, on this map, you would have have to hold basically every territory in a continent. It'd also bring up problems of smaller continents being harder to hold because they connect to so many territories. It's solvable but difficult. I'd rather not have that to solve but the idea of it for this map doesn't appeal to me.

So, thanks to both of you for your suggestions but that's not the direction I want to take this map.



onbe you're probably right about the 3 territory continents being +2 which umm someone else was saying before too (wasn't brushing off the last person (or not deliberately anyway)). I guess 4 terr vs 3 terr isn't that big of a deal and we have both 3 terr and 4 terr continents bordering 2 and 3 continents and territories. some people are just gonna have the luck of the draw there I guess.


And, if I'm going to add a 10th territory to Eurasia, there's only really one place to do it (northeast). I'm not saying I'm doing it but I'll look at least to see if there's any natural country or province borders there which I've based most of this map on I think (been a while since I drew the borders).


Finally, onbe thanks for all the names but there's no way I'm going to fit them on this map. Spacing is very very tight so I decided long ago that I'm naming each territory by continent and number. I know it's boring but I don't see how else to fit everything. Possibly the artist will differ in opinion on this and figure something out but I don't see how that can possibly happen.
User avatar
Major edbeard
 
Posts: 2501
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2007 12:41 am
Medals: 18
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3)
Tournament Achievement (1) Map Contribution (5) General Contribution (3)

Re: Land And Water v3p5 gameplay talk

Postby edbeard on Sun Oct 26, 2008 5:08 pm

Here's something for MrBenn


Points of Discussion:


1. Bonuses:

Arctic: 2
Pacific: 4
Atlantic: 5
Indian:3
NA: 4
SA: 2
Africa: 3
Eurasia: 6
Oceania: 2
Antarctia: 2

2. Connections? Where to place them. Should I change, add, and/or remove any?

3. Eurasia. Should I add one more territory to it to make the +6 bonus more apt? (53 vs the current 52 territories doesn't make any difference. both are considered optimal for above average sized maps by benjikat's analysis of starting number of territories).
User avatar
Major edbeard
 
Posts: 2501
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2007 12:41 am
Medals: 18
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3)
Tournament Achievement (1) Map Contribution (5) General Contribution (3)

Re: Land And Water v3p5 gameplay talk

Postby MrBenn on Sun Oct 26, 2008 8:38 pm

I think there's always going to be room for small tweaks to bonus values.

The connections are always going to be arbitrary, although I liked the addition of the Panama canal link between Atlantic/Pacific.

I think the gameplay is getting there, so you can have an [Adv] mark ;-) next stop, a proper draft :shock:
Image
PB: 2661 | He's blue... If he were green he would die | No mod would be stupid enough to do that
User avatar
Lieutenant MrBenn
Retired Team Member
 
Posts: 7051
Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2007 9:32 am
Location: Off Duty
Medals: 67
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (3) Freestyle Achievement (2) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (2) Fog of War Achievement (3)
Speed Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (2) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (3) Tournament Achievement (2)
General Achievement (6) Clan Achievement (1) Map Contribution (7) Tournament Contribution (2) General Contribution (15)

Re: Land And Water v3p5 gameplay talk

Postby edbeard on Sun Oct 26, 2008 8:54 pm

thanks for the stick.

well that panama canal link would be a nice touch but that wouldn't make sense for the gameplay

as for a 'proper draft', the only thing I'm really missing from the 'move to main foundry' requirements is territory names. As I've said, I'm just going to name them things like NA 1, SA 2, At 5, Pa 4, Eu 1, In 3, An 4, Ar 1, Oc 2, Af 5. If you really need me to put these on the map to get moved then I'll do it. As I've said, I'm planning on getting the gameplay stamp then hopefully someone will say, "the gameplay's already done so the graphics will be fairly easy to do. No need to adjust the graphics for a gameplay change."

I'd like to here more thoughts on the 3 points of discussion.
User avatar
Major edbeard
 
Posts: 2501
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2007 12:41 am
Medals: 18
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3)
Tournament Achievement (1) Map Contribution (5) General Contribution (3)

Re: Land And Water v3p5 gameplay talk

Postby mibi on Sun Oct 26, 2008 10:33 pm

I like the idea a lot. Though I think there should be more land territories to increase the number of connection each sea territory has, they-by increasing the strategic value of them.
User avatar
Captain mibi
 
Posts: 3360
Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2007 8:19 pm
Location: The Great State of Vermont
Medals: 13
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (1) Map Contribution (5)
General Contribution (3)

PreviousNext

Return to The Atlas

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users

Login