[Official] Brazil REVAMP [Quenched]

[ZeakCytho]

I would also like to see Rio Negro's name changed, but for totally different reasons. Rio Negro, from what I can tell on google and wikipedia, is not a region of Brazil or a city, but a river. One of the criteria in making this map was that nothing natural can be used for impassables, since it was a purely political map. So why not use purely political divisions? I believe there are a number of inaccurately named/placed territories on this map that should be fixed prior to quenching, and it is completely possible to make this map more accurate without changing gameplay at all.

The map made by Mjinga for the competition, shown below, has territories named after the largest city in the region they are encompassed by. If you don't want to do the divisions by city, that's fine, but could you do something to make it more accurate?

Click image to enlarge.

[Incandenza]

Rj can you please change the territory named of Rio Negro it kind of insults me and I don't approve of it.

Rio Negro, actual place: Wikipedia

Take it up with the Brazilians if you don't like it. Besides, it's almost impossible to take this sort of thing seriously. No one's this sensitive without an agenda of some sort.

[Marvaddin]

Hey all

About the tilt: although its not something really offensive to national feelings, I dont like when my country's shape is presented in... hmmmm... non traditional forms. As you can guess, I have drawn tons of Brazilian maps with my own hands since when I was a young boy (school homeworks, of course), and its hard to see it tilted, lol. I can imagine how would sound strange to the Americans the USA map with the east side to the top, for example (lol, it would be strange even to me). So, I dislike tilts in any maps, and I think everyone dislike them, at least in maps you see very often, like the map of your own country. In some cases, they can be useful, specially with the maximum map size... Portugal, Chile, Sweden, etc, there are very countries with a dimension much bigger than the other, and it can help, but like I said, I dont think its the case, and this is the main problem: the tilt is not necessary, so why have it? The single drawback of removing the tilt is giving more work to rj, I think. Of course its a big drawback, but I know he can handle with it

About territories names.
The first comment is: I will still spend some time checking them again, and other Brazilians are invited to help me in this task.
The Rio Negro name, like you already know, means Black River in Portuguese, and there is not even a minimum amount of racism in this name. Rio Negro is a river that form Amazon River (Rio Amazonas, in Portuguese), and it has this name because it has really dark waters, duh!
About the name being of just a river, well, you are wrong.
Let me present you the Brazilian state of Amazonas:



As its our biggest state, in the CC map it was splitted in 4 territories: Manaus, Rio Negro, Solimões and Madeira. In the image I just posted, the blue area is a sub-state region called Rio Negro (I mixed it to some other sub-areas and gave the name that makes more sense). And just giving names of cities is not the best answer too. I realized the effort of Mjinga, but see: the rainforest dont have sooo many big cities. Benjamin Constant is a city with like 25k people, and so most even Brazilians ignore its existence, lol. I wouldnt give a name that people that know the country would think "wtf is Benjamin Constant?", right? Rio Negro, otherwise, is the name of that blue area, AND is a famous river, so, it would make sense.

But again, I will check the names again, and anyone that knows the area and wants to help is welcome.

Any other question I can answer for now?

[Mjinga]

I picked the names of cities actually for different reasons. I used state capitals where I could, and large cities in the regions that I was working with, but sometimes if I could find a city that was (according to possibly non-Brazilian sites ) of more cultural importance, I used that one.

But in any case, I used only city names. I really don't like how the original one uses cities for some territ names, states for others, and river names for others. It just seems very inconsistent... I'm not so attached to my choices of names, I just like that they're all cities.

About Rio Negro... um, it's very clearly not a racial insult. It's not even pronounced the same way as Americans would if they were insulting African Americans. Why does it bother you, WorldConquer587?

[pepperonibread]

Huh. I'm actually starting to see were marv's coming from... tilt a U.S. map about 27 degrees and you'll see why he's got a problem.
Still love the tilt though, it'd be sad to see it go. It seems to make everything fit together in this map, something some of the other Brazils didn't have.

[RjBeals]

I also see Marv's point. I will rework the map and remove the tilt. Give me some time though - it's not as simple as just clicking and rotating the entire image.

[jiminski]

Huh. I'm actually starting to see were marv's coming from... tilt a U.S. map about 27 degrees and you'll see why he's got a problem.
Still love the tilt though, it'd be sad to see it go. It seems to make everything fit together in this map, something some of the other Brazils didn't have.

I also see Marv's point. I will rework the map and remove the tilt. Give me some time though - it's not as simple as just clicking and rotating the entire image.

It is a real shame if Marv is holding us all to this... (perhaps we could change the names on the map and call it the map of 'Ancient Chelmsford'.. so we can get rid of the Super Veto.... joking.. half joking.. I understand the tradition of ultimate control for the original creator in spite of the rest of the worlds opinion )

However the point regarding the US is completely moot; the shape of the US has a balance and a symmetry to it.. or at least no gain in symmetry would be made by titling it.. turn is upside-down; maybe but to what gain?
Brazil is wonky in shape, by using the tilt to square the top off and paralleling it with the Baby-map, (you could draw a diagonal line from the left bottom corner to the top right corner, which would fall between the most relevant symmetrical points in both maps) it alludes to a subtle, progressive visual harmony.

In my opinion and without the shackles locked by 15th century European, Cartographic precepts. The map gains a great deal from this simple tilt and RJ should be allowed to remain true to his Aesthetic discovery.

[Marvaddin]

It is a real shame if Marv is holding us all to this... (perhaps we could change the names on the map and call it the map of 'Ancient Chelmsford'.. so we can get rid of the Super Veto.... joking.. half joking.. I understand the tradition of ultimate control for the original creator in spite of the rest of the worlds opinion )

However the point regarding the US is completely moot; the shape of the US has a balance and a symmetry to it.. or at least no gain in symmetry would be made by titling it.. turn is upside-down; maybe but to what gain?
Brazil is wonky in shape, by using the tilt to square the top off and paralleling it with the Baby-map, it alludes to a subtle, progressive visual harmony.

In my opinion and without the shackles locked by 15th century European, Cartographic precepts. The map gains a great deal from this simple tilt and RJ should be allowed to remain true to his Aesthetic discovery.

I was not suggesting to add a tilt on US map. This is a way so you can realize how strange your country map can look with a tilt. Like you said, a US map up-to-down would still have balance and simmetry, so, why not? Just put an arrow pointing to North and its ok, isnt it? Now, see if it dont hurt the accustomed eyes. For what gain, you ask, and I return you the same question. Is Brazil gaining simmetry with the tilt? No to me, its still Brazil assimmetric shape with a tilt. And why do you really think we will have the baby map in final version? Its open to discussion too, as we now have 2 legends. I assume that, if you see visual harmony in the tilted Brazil map, its because you didnt look at it without the tilt a million times like me. A serious suggestion: try get a map of your own country and discover some aesthetic harmony adding a tilt to it. I would like to see what we would get.

And many thanks, rj, by understanding the point and redoing it.

Mjinga, I have realized your names criteria. But, there are some problems...
When I first did the map, I would put states names, of course, but, some of them were splitted, so it wouldnt be accurate even giving the state name to a part of it, but I kept the state name on the ones that were not splitted. And what to do with the other territories? I tried to put names of sub-state areas, but in some cases the name of capital city (or important city) would fit better, I thought, specially when the area name is long or unknown for most Brazilians. Just cities names would be strange, because there are some areas without any really important cities, so the area name could prevail in these cases. Oh, and I also had to think about names size. Like Natal territory. Its a state, and Natal is its capital city. I put the city name because the state name is "Rio Grande do Norte", which is very long. (Yeah, thats a state name, not a river name, although for now you all know rio = river, lol. There are many areas in Brazil with names related to important rivers.)

So, in fact, I think that find just one criteria is nearly impossible, and I will try to find something that makes sense, and for that Im open to suggestions

[RjBeals]

And why do you really think we will have the baby map in final version? Its open to discussion too, as we now have 2 legends.

I think there is enough space for both legends, as the minimap doesn't have the names on it, just the bonuses. I prefer the mini-map style to the color block style. Especially when the colors are close in tone, and there are color blind people on the site.

(My 2 cents).

[whitestazn88]

i liked the tilt... but i guess marv does have that super veto power...

and i agree that there is more than enough room for both legends. i like legends with both a minimap and descriptions anyway

[jiminski]

It is a real shame if Marv is holding us all to this... (perhaps we could change the names on the map and call it the map of 'Ancient Chelmsford'.. so we can get rid of the Super Veto.... joking.. half joking.. I understand the tradition of ultimate control for the original creator in spite of the rest of the worlds opinion )

However the point regarding the US is completely moot; the shape of the US has a balance and a symmetry to it.. or at least no gain in symmetry would be made by titling it.. turn is upside-down; maybe but to what gain?
Brazil is wonky in shape, by using the tilt to square the top off and paralleling it with the Baby-map, (you could draw a diagonal line from the left bottom corner to the top right corner, which would fall between the most relevant symmetrical points in both maps) it alludes to a subtle, progressive visual harmony.

In my opinion and without the shackles locked by 15th century European, Cartographic precepts. The map gains a great deal from this simple tilt and RJ should be allowed to remain true to his Aesthetic discovery.

I was not suggesting to add a tilt on US map. This is a way so you can realize how strange your country map can look with a tilt. Like you said, a US map up-to-down would still have balance and simmetry, so, why not? Just put an arrow pointing to North and its ok, isnt it? Now, see if it dont hurt the accustomed eyes. For what gain, you ask, and I return you the same question. Is Brazil gaining simmetry with the tilt? No to me, its still Brazil assimmetric shape with a tilt. And why do you really think we will have the baby map in final version? Its open to discussion too, as we now have 2 legends. I assume that, if you see visual harmony in the tilted Brazil map, its because you didnt look at it without the tilt a million times like me. A serious suggestion: try get a map of your own country and discover some aesthetic harmony adding a tilt to it. I would like to see what we would get.

And many thanks, rj, by understanding the point and redoing it.

....

what a shame..


(you missed my section in bold above, as i suppose you were writing a response as i edited, it explains my view a little better)

But my map would be the UK... do what you want to it if it looks as beautiful as RJ's; with the subtle and respectful nuance of his changes.
North/South Map bias and Map perceptive is largely based in a form of visual propaganda anyway, emanating from European conquest and dominance hundreds of years past.... Censoring RJ is just a real shame.

[AndyDufresne]

I also don't mind the tilt...I know someone suggested adding a compass to show the direction of north, I'd be pleased with such.


--Andy

[jako]

part of why i chose A was because of the tilt. it just looks so much better with a tilt and like jiminski said, its pleasing to the eye.

[Incandenza]

Put me down as another who fancies the tilt...

[RjBeals]

sorry guys.

Marv gets the last word here. As much as it doesn't bother me either, it bothers him. I'll try to make sure I don't loose the feel though - with the map being true north. I just have a feeling there's going to be a lot of dead space.... but we'll see.