[Official] Brazil REVAMP [Quenched]

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Re: [Official] Brazil REVAMP [I, GP]

Postby jiminski on Sun Aug 10, 2008 12:13 pm

Marvaddin wrote:Afffff, talking about the tilt is getting boring. Im not really considering to approve it, because:


^^ This is what Im saying: I dont feel that I should let it looking weird to us Brazilians, just because some foreign people think its more beautiful with a tilt. Guys, its our country, I cant think that we should have it tilted because you look at the map and see an empty angle. Its more important than a simple good visual sensation. I could tolerate it if it was necessary due to maximum size restrictions, but as it isnt, well... you know.

About the revamp process, well, Im sorry if some think its frustating, but there was clear we would not quench the voted map, it would still be modified in the normal foundry process. And I have posted I would place veto to the tilt in the first comment about all the entries in 1st stage, so if it was in 2nd stage and people voted to it, well, not my fault, I suppose. If you really like the idea, you can ask for a new poll, to choose between rj map without a tilt and the other 2 entries, but Im very happy with the map and the cartographer, and I think it will be even better without the tilt, lets wait and give it a chance. ;)





hehe I really don't think you are sorry that it is frustrating 'some foreigners' at all Marv ;)
It seems that this is your map and no one else's opinion matters as much as your own?
I agree the veto was agreed upon but this is ridiculous to do it in this order! why get our hopes up and then shatter them after we have voted on our favourite image?
This order of operation was bound to cause conflict and a feeling of impotence for those who thought they were involved in the process of decision making!

This is not being modified in the normal foundry process; you are shaping the direction of another map makers creation and, i am sorry to say, in the face of public opinion.
whatever anyone says here, 700 odd people voted and the majority chose RJ's map with a tilt... you will ensure that we do not get it... really?

Your position seems to reflect a complete disregard for consensual oppinion... i am a relative New-boy here but from what i have seen of the Foundry, running roughshod over all other opinion is not normal procedure. (correct me if i am wrong please)

i apologise for the controversy RJ, i truly do. You have behaved with great humility and it was a beautiful work of art, which is why i am rather impassioned regarding it remaining in the style of majority choice!

I am a little incensed each time i look at the map now. I feel like a man who .. just about to make love to a beautiful woman, discovers a joint of beef and two onions in 'her' panties.
thanks for that. You got my hopes up and all i can look forward to is a pain in the arse!

I understand that preconceptions are a powerful master but resting ultimate power in the hands of such an intransigent viewpoint seems a little unfair... particularly when the community was offered the illusion of being able to contribute.

I completely understand your claim on the country of Brazil, Marv and I for one, would love to play on the map of it. But the balance and use of space which the tilt brings, truly is fantastic!
To the unbiased eye, it is almost perfect in composition.

I implore you to take other perspectives into consideration on equal terms, Marv.
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Re: [Official] Brazil REVAMP [I, GP]

Postby Mjinga on Sun Aug 10, 2008 2:38 pm

jako wrote:
wcaclimbing wrote:
AndyDufresne wrote:<Andy stuff>

<wcaclimbing stuff>


it doesnt look that bad. but im not american so i dont really care that much, but i still support the tilt.


Precisely. You're not from the country so you don't care.

I really think it's fair to put this one under Marvaddin's decision alone, since he is from Brazil and does care. I mean, I see everyone's points about public opinion and suchlike, but it is his map, and he did say that he wouldn't let the tilt go forward from round one. You all could whinge at RJ for misleading you in the polls instead of Marv for vetoing the tilt, if you want to whinge about something. :P
Reputation cleared. :) Never let it be said that Team CC don't investigate fairly.
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Re: [Official] Brazil REVAMP [I, GP]

Postby The Viking on Sun Aug 10, 2008 3:40 pm

You can't compare a tilted Brazil map to a tilted U.S. map.
And I'm not American.
The top(north) border of the U.S. is a straight line aligned east-west so tilting it looks strange. It is in no way comparable to Brazil, which has no straight lines.

I slightly tilted map of Iceland, where I'm from, does not look that weird to me and I wouldn't mind it if RJBeals had decided to tilt Iceland on his Iceland map, if it would serve some visual purpose.

It'd be interesting to see what people from countries other than Brazil and the U.S. think.
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Re: [Official] Brazil REVAMP [I, GP]

Postby AndyDufresne on Sun Aug 10, 2008 3:43 pm

What if the map was tilted the other direction...a "more true representation." You migt be able to keep the minimap on the left, and put the legend on the right.

It may not be as pleasing as the current tilt, but it would allow both to stay perhaps, and it would be from a perspective people all around the world have seen the country from. :)


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Re: [Official] Brazil REVAMP [I, GP]

Postby edbeard on Sun Aug 10, 2008 3:51 pm

I'm against removing the tilt because the mini-map currently looks like part of the tree in the background. If we 'untilted' the map, it wouldn't look like that anymore.

I'm for removing the tilt because Marvaddin wants to get rid of it and it's his map. It's a Marvocracy when it comes to certain things.
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Re: [Official] Brazil REVAMP [I, GP]

Postby jiminski on Sun Aug 10, 2008 4:02 pm

Mjinga wrote:
jako wrote:
wcaclimbing wrote:
AndyDufresne wrote:<Andy stuff>

<wcaclimbing stuff>


it doesnt look that bad. but im not american so i dont really care that much, but i still support the tilt.


Precisely. You're not from the country so you don't care.

I really think it's fair to put this one under Marvaddin's decision alone, since he is from Brazil and does care. I mean, I see everyone's points about public opinion and suchlike, but it is his map, and he did say that he wouldn't let the tilt go forward from round one. You all could whinge at RJ for misleading you in the polls instead of Marv for vetoing the tilt, if you want to whinge about something. :P


Hey Mj. We are not wingeing.. please don't say that ;).
People are in here because they care about what comes out of the foundry. It is crazy but i am already attached to RJ's map and am truly looking forward to playing on it... but at the moment it looks like i will not get to.

I think i care about beauty and ideas as much as anyone genuinely cares about the angle of pivot along the north south line of longitude!
Last edited by jiminski on Sun Aug 10, 2008 4:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [Official] Brazil REVAMP [I, GP]

Postby Mjinga on Sun Aug 10, 2008 4:06 pm

:) I don't mean it in a bad way.
Reputation cleared. :) Never let it be said that Team CC don't investigate fairly.
Although they take bloody forever to do it...
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Re: [Official] Brazil REVAMP [I, GP]

Postby jiminski on Sun Aug 10, 2008 4:13 pm

Mjinga wrote::) I don't mean it in a bad way.


I know MJ, you do not have bad in you!

i am just beginning to feel really sad about this map.
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Re: [Official] Brazil REVAMP [I, GP]

Postby RjBeals on Sun Aug 10, 2008 6:29 pm

Jeez.. calm down. I can remove the tilt and still make the map look good.

As far as misleading the site with the tilt still in round-2,,, well we only had 3 days to adjust the image. I'm starting to regret winning - and would rather concentrate on iron curtain.
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Re: [Official] Brazil REVAMP [I, GP]

Postby pamoa on Mon Aug 11, 2008 4:07 am

RjBeals wrote:... I'm starting to regret winning - and would rather concentrate on iron curtain.

Prize of fame, you should be happy under the spotlights...
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Re: [Official] Brazil REVAMP [I, GP]

Postby RjBeals on Mon Aug 11, 2008 7:39 pm

Click image to enlarge.
image


Okay - all I've basically done was remove the tilt - however that took a lot of work. I had to redraw every border. But I think the map looks fine this way. I had to "adjust" some of the borders in the top right (NorthEast) blue section in order to fit the names and/or circles the way I did. I hope that's alright.

I also removed the text legend and have just the minimap, since I think that was the preferred legend. With the title in the upper right, and the legend in the lower left, I think the map still feels balanced.

I also changed the color of the impassable borders.

From here I can work on spellings or territ names - Hope you like.
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Re: [Official] Brazil REVAMP (Update No Tilt) [I, GP]

Postby ZeakCytho on Mon Aug 11, 2008 7:50 pm

=D>

I think it looks just as good as before, and probably much better to Brazilians.
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Re: [Official] Brazil REVAMP (Update No Tilt) [I, GP]

Postby jiminski on Mon Aug 11, 2008 8:20 pm

just to compare

Click image to enlarge.
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Re: [Official] Brazil REVAMP (Update No Tilt) [I, GP]

Postby whitestazn88 on Mon Aug 11, 2008 8:28 pm

it still looks real good rj... keep up the good work
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Re: [Official] Brazil REVAMP (Update No Tilt) [I, GP]

Postby jako on Mon Aug 11, 2008 10:03 pm

at least the no-tilt version doesnt look as bad as i imagined. but im still a tilt fan. :|
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Re: [Official] Brazil REVAMP (Update No Tilt) [I, GP]

Postby Night Strike on Mon Aug 11, 2008 10:09 pm

Without the tilt, it did lose some of its flair, but it's still an attractive map.

Your Non-Crossing Borders label might look better underneath the mini-map in the "hook" of the map. (Kind of like having it nest down to the bottom left corner from the top right.)

Perhaps you could fit the flag or something in the bottom right.
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Re: [Official] Brazil REVAMP (Update No Tilt) [I, GP]

Postby WidowMakers on Tue Aug 12, 2008 5:43 am

Tilt still looks good. But 3 things:
    1) I like the old legend. But since you cannot tilt, there is no room for that.
    2) Bring back the old Non-Crossing borders. The white is better.
    3) Do you think you could put the flag or crest in the lower right? Maybe fill up the empty spaces a bit.

Other than that I am fine with it.

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Re: [Official] Brazil REVAMP (Update No Tilt) [I, GP]

Postby jiminski on Tue Aug 12, 2008 5:50 am

The vetoed map uses space and the confines of the square frame with greater elegance.
Therefore the image is now attempting to catch up to what it was, by cramming flags and legends into various empty corners.

If we could tilt the square frame so that the same composition could hug the diagonals of the board.. then it would be fine .. I assume we we can not(?).. at least without shrinking the map and placing a skew diamond into an additional, conventional square frame.

The Tilt utilises the confines of the Square frame.... if you could somehow recapture the illusion then i would be happy. At present, in the replacement map, we have a reminder of balletic symphony without recreating it.
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Re: [Official] Brazil REVAMP (Update No Tilt) [I, GP]

Postby RjBeals on Tue Aug 12, 2008 7:17 am

WidowMakers wrote:2) Bring back the old Non-Crossing borders. The white is better.
3) Do you think you could put the flag or crest in the lower right? Maybe fill up the empty spaces a bit.[/list]


1) I can try to put the crest in the lower right. I don't think I want the flag there. The flag's colors are just to gaudy. It doesn't fit the color scheme of the map.
2) Sure I can bring back the white (actually a bit pink) non-crossing borders.

Night Strike wrote: Your Non-Crossing Borders label might look better underneath the mini-map in the "hook" of the map. (Kind of like having it nest down to the bottom left corner from the top right.)

Sure - I can try to flip those 2 around. I'll see how it looks.


jiminski wrote:The Tilt utilizes the confines of the Square frame.... if you could somehow recapture the illusion then i would be happy. At present, in the replacement map, we have a reminder of balletic symphony without recreating it.


I know what you mean jim. I'm not sure I can pull it off, I surely can't angle the maps square border. But I can try to do something different, using some of the culture and colors.
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Re: [Official] Brazil REVAMP (Update No Tilt) [I, GP]

Postby Hotdoggie on Tue Aug 12, 2008 7:21 am

looks better without the tilt but w.e...just cave into the orquardness to sacrifice a better look.
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Re: [Official] Brazil REVAMP (Update No Tilt) [I, GP]

Postby jiminski on Tue Aug 12, 2008 8:20 am

Hotdoggie wrote:looks better without the tilt but w.e...just cave into the orquardness to sacrifice a better
look.


It's a fine line between awkwardness and striving for what one thinks is best. All that often differentiates between the two is our initial perspective. The tilt issue is the perfect example of that.. from both sides of the 'debate'.

And genuine, not false debate, is the only correct way to reach the most correct result!
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Re: [Official] Brazil REVAMP (Update No Tilt) [I, GP]

Postby Hotdoggie on Wed Aug 13, 2008 3:54 pm

jiminski wrote:
Hotdoggie wrote:looks better without the tilt but w.e...just cave into the orquardness to sacrifice a better
look.


It's a fine line between awkwardness and striving for what one thinks is best. All that often differentiates between the two is our initial perspective. The tilt issue is the perfect example of that.. from both sides of the 'debate'.

And genuine, not false debate, is the only correct way to reach the most correct result!


lol I typod... *It looks better WITH the tilt.

Now what I said makes sence =]
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Re: [Official] Brazil REVAMP [I, GP]

Postby MrBenn on Mon Aug 25, 2008 5:06 am

RjBeals wrote:
Click image to enlarge.
image

The army circles look slightly oval; is that deliberate, or a side-effect of the un-tilting, or just an optical illusion?
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Re: [Official] Brazil REVAMP (Update No Tilt) [I, GP]

Postby edbeard on Mon Aug 25, 2008 6:51 pm

I only can see a couple of concerns for this map

1. oval army circles

2. border between Vihena and Madeira. Is it supposed to be there? I don't think it is. Seems like the impassable border needs to be extended a bit there. And, speaking of the impassable border...

3. The colour of the impassable border. Maybe it's just me but I think the green and gold is quite ugly for the border. The green works for the map background. The gold works for the frame or trim of the map. Put them together for the impassable border and it looks awful to me. Also, why is the colour different on the legend version? I'd say try the black you used for the regular borders instead of the green for the outline of the impassable.
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Re: [Official] Brazil REVAMP (Update No Tilt) [I, GP]

Postby RjBeals on Mon Aug 25, 2008 8:31 pm

The oval army circles are deliberate. It's so the 88's fit perfectly centered.
The little border you mentioned ed will be fixed -it must have slipped in there?
And I'll work on the impassables.

Marv was concerned that the upper left area of the map didn't exactly fit to his original map,if you laid them on top of each other. It's true - it's because I used a rounded google earth image to trace my borders, and Marv used a flattened map to trace his. They will not match. I have really not addressed that problem yet. I'm thinking of my next move.
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