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Re: Wales [I] v6 p1/4 ***UPDATED 30/08/08***

Postby MrBenn on Mon Sep 15, 2008 2:57 pm

qwert wrote:I check in Wikipedia,and wales have 22 unitary authorities,and when you add 3 english,these give you number of 25.

I've used the ceremonial/historical boundaries... the Unitary authorities are purely administrative, and not cultural...

I'll look at shifting some of the colours around, and will be adding in some mountains etc in a couple of spots.

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Re: Wales [I] p1/6 >>New Update 20th Sept<<

Postby MrBenn on Sat Sep 20, 2008 6:07 am

OK... It's been a little while, but here is my first attempt at a grunged-up version...
I've taken a picture of some scrumpled of paper and added that to the background as a feint texture
There is a bit of 'weathering' to the edges, but I've also sprinkled some over the map at random ;-)
I'm not wholly convinced by the fold I've put across the middle, but I'll see what others think.
After much playing around, I have learnt a bit about custom brushes and drawn some mountains I am happy with. I'm using PS6, which doesn't have a 'jitter' feature, but I think they look good regardless.

I haven't swapped the colours around as I flattened the colours layer, and will need to see if I can get an untangled copy from an early version #-o
Which order do people think would be better for the colours?

My final comments are about image size; my working copy is bigger than the large image will be - I'll put up the correct size images once I've sorted out the colour-shift ;-)

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Re: Wales [I] p1/6 >>New Update 20th Sept<<

Postby asl80 on Sat Sep 20, 2008 7:41 pm

looks good, and looks like it might provide some interesting gameplay. well done so far, good luck.
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Re: Wales [I] p1/6 >>New Update 20th Sept<<

Postby The Wyvern on Sun Sep 21, 2008 11:55 am

Tell me, how does the two clans work? Do they both function as their own territories, or do you need to capture both in order to possess the territory?
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Re: Wales [I] p1/6 >>New Update 20th Sept<<

Postby gimil on Sun Sep 21, 2008 12:32 pm

Sorry I haven't read up on this benn so I don't really know 100% what is going on, but the shire/clan stuff really does confuse me I don't have a clue what it is on about.

Could you enlighten me please? :)
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Re: Wales [I] p1/6 >>New Update 20th Sept<<

Postby The Wyvern on Sun Sep 21, 2008 2:10 pm

Oh! I get it now; each clan essentially is a territory, and when you control both clans of a shire you get a continent bonus!

But what if you own all shires of a region? do you get an additional bonus?
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Re: Wales [I]

Postby MrBenn on Sun Sep 21, 2008 4:48 pm

Here's another update...

I have taken out the 'fold' across the middle as I wasn't really that keen on it.
The colours have been swapped around, and I've made the band of colour thicker to make it easier to distinguish. I think the colours are better placed now, but am tempted to rethink the thickness...
The large image has been made a bit smaller (even if only to appease RJ!)
I've also added a burn-mark. The hole is very slightly off-white, to match the colour of the background on the play-a-game screen.
I have changed the shapes of the region bonuses, picking out a shape from the corresponding region area instead of the previous blobs!

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To clarify some of the gameplay issues, there are two territories (clans) in each geographical area(Shire). You get a +1 bonus for holding both territories/clans in each area/shire. The Shires are grouped into regions, which will yield an additional bonus. I have attempted to explain this through the medium of poetry, so some of the finesse may be lost?? In any case, the gameplay will be standard (ie no bombards/one-ways etc), except for the multiple armies per territory...
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Re: Wales [I] p1/6 >>New Update 20th Sept<<

Postby ZeakCytho on Sun Sep 21, 2008 4:52 pm

I love the new look!
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Re: Wales [I] p1/6 >>New Update 20th Sept<<

Postby MrBenn on Sun Sep 21, 2008 4:59 pm

I forgot to mention that I've made the large image a bit smaller (even if only to appease RJ!)
I've also added a burn-mark. The hole is very slightly off-white, to match the colour of the background on the play-a-game screen.
I have changed the shapes of the region bonuses, picking out a shape from the corresponding region area instead of the previous blobs!

[edited in to earlier post]
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Re: Wales [I] p1/6 >>New Update 20th Sept<<

Postby edbeard on Sun Sep 21, 2008 5:32 pm

the look is great except I'm not fond of the hole. I'd rather it'd just not be there as it doesn't seem to add to the image. it feels quite random and gimmickish to place it there.


one thing I don't like is the bottom left section of your bonus legend. Gogledd, North, and 3 aren't that readable on top of the dark blue



I think the main concern is the gameplay at this point. Like people have pointed out, you're going to have people starting with +1 bonuses all over the place. the drop and going first will be that much more important on this map. I've been trying to figure out a 'solution' but I'm not sure there's anything that makes sense that's possible with the current XML. You could say you need to hold two shires to get a bonus but that's four territories to defend so that's stupid. You could say attacks can only occur inside a shire or from same language adjacent territories but that doesn't really do anything but limit the openness of the map which has nothing to do with what we're talking about. One thing that I thought could be interesting would be to make holding the shire a conditional autodeploy. You hold Sir Fynwy and Monmouth and each get a +1 bonus on the territory. It limits the power of holding a shire, in that, it only helps you locally. you can't hold three shires from the drop and place 6 armies in one spot. the problem is that it gives you double the armies for holding a shire so that makes it that much stronger and will probably making getting shires from the drop that much more important. furthermore, it's not currently possible with this XML and who knows if/when it will be.


I think we're all going to have to live with this gameplay you've got because there doesn't appear to be any way around it. the only good thing is that even if someone else drops a shire, you can gain them with one attack.
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Re: Wales [I] >>Version 9<< p1/6

Postby MrBenn on Sun Sep 21, 2008 6:12 pm

Thanks edbeard.

I think yeti had a solution for the deployment problem - I think we can mitigate for it using starting positions, but I haven't fully got my head around that yet...

As for the burn-hole, I'm not sold on it either... It will probably disappear at some point, but I thought it might look better than a mug-stain ;-)
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Re: Wales [I] >>Version 9<< p1/6

Postby asl80 on Sun Sep 21, 2008 9:43 pm

- keep the cultural historical boundaries ... screw the unitary!!! (i don't even know what that means! hehe)
- keep the poetic instruction ... it's not that riddled and actually pretty straightforward.
- i see no need for the burn mark either, there's enough beauty spots on the canvas already.

- on gameplay; i reakon either autodeploy on won of the two shire territories (this would need to be explained), or, if the xml allows, make it, before you deploy your free armies, that you are restricted, shire after shire, to autodeploy on either of the two clans within the corresponding shire.

- or, another option ... have one half of each shire start neutral, and at possibly +4 or ideally +5 ... this would mean it is very hard for a first turn grab (you wouldn't need it auto deploy on this principle i think.
... only problem here though, is that you would then be down to 18 starting territories ... but then, with a start of +3, and no need to attack your opponent straight up on account of territory bonus ... each could go off and get them selves a bonus. (which would give them only +4 from the first one ... not a game defining headstart.
(8 player games could only have 2 starting territories ... i.e. easy eliminations etc. hmmmm)

- third alternative for both the autodeploy and the neutral options ... give each shire another territory, i.e. the two clans and a third "unitary" territory (hahaha, but not that word - poss call it by shire name.), which starts neutral +5 and which you must hold in addition to the two clans ... the bonus could then be auto'd on here.
(i do like that the second option provided smaller starting territories and thus less terr. bonus ... meaning the features of the map would be more important)

anyway ... hope there's at least a little chunk of sustenance in here ... good luck.
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Re: Wales [I] >>Version 9<< p1/6

Postby The Wyvern on Sun Sep 21, 2008 10:59 pm

I think the gameplay will be alright - interesting, but alright. The only way to tell would to do actual gameplay tests.

But graphics-wise, I agree on getting rid of the burn mark, but also maybe taking the english names down a couple points or italicising them so that the welsh stands out more. Which also brings up a good question: in the "dashboard" (as I call it) when playing the game, am I goin to have to read name like "Sir Gaerfyrddin Carmarthen"? that is an eye-full.
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Re: Wales [I] >>Version 9<< p1/6

Postby yeti_c on Mon Sep 22, 2008 3:01 am

MrBenn wrote:Thanks edbeard.

I think yeti had a solution for the deployment problem - I think we can mitigate for it using starting positions, but I haven't fully got my head around that yet...

As for the burn-hole, I'm not sold on it either... It will probably disappear at some point, but I thought it might look better than a mug-stain ;-)


My solution was for 1v1 players - and had limitations in itself (all explained earlier - but feel free to catch me for anymore info you need)

The Burn Mark - Whilst I think it looks amazing - I don't think it works on this map. Less is More.

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Re: Wales [I] >>Version 9<< p1/6

Postby MrBenn on Mon Sep 22, 2008 3:57 am

The Wyvern wrote:...Which also brings up a good question: in the "dashboard" (as I call it) when playing the game, am I goin to have to read name like "Sir Gaerfyrddin Carmarthen"? that is an eye-full.

'Sir Gaerfyrddin' and 'Carmarthen' are different territories that occupy the same geographical area, so each will have its own entry on the drop-down list.

yeti_c wrote:The Burn Mark - Whilst I think it looks amazing - I don't think it works on this map. Less is More.
yeti_c wrote:
MrBenn wrote:As for the burn-hole, I'm not sold on it either... It will probably disappear at some point.

Change that to definitely disappear ;-)
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