Europe 1914 [Quenched]

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Re: EUROPE 1914-New Update!28 avg page 1-4

Postby Qwert on Fri Aug 29, 2008 8:47 am

You can split it in 2: north sector west allies = britain, belgium, north parts of france geared against taking part in war effort against german front.
south sector west allies : south france (Marseille), Italy geared for taking part in the war effort against Austria and Ottomans.
Really this makes it gamewise much more sensible.

keep balkans as one bonuszone..that's ok.


I don't understand game idea of taking the central capitols only... won't the war be over if Germany seizes London, Paris; Brussels, Rome,Moskou ?

I don't like the idea of taking any "x" number of territories within a large space yields extra bonus ..like beforesaid You have the ottoman empire you get two bonusses combined ..

Like i say these is map one day before Start of War ;) . Creating two Western Allied Sector,will be no good idea. I realy Belive that Western Allied must be in one country.
I think that War is over when you take Central Powers Capitals,these is more logical.
Do you sugest that i have two Gameplay Objectives? Its these Possible?
"Capture Entente Powers Capitals-London,Paris,Rome,Saint Petersburg"
I dont know its these possible,i think that for now nobody have multiple Gameplayer Objective. But maybe will be very interesting Gameplay. Its will be good that someon who understand XML give hes opinion abouth multiple gameplay Objectives.

Well i can rise these to 15 for Allied and to 10 for Central powers,+ one starting position.
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Re: EUROPE 1914-New Update!28 avg page 1-4

Postby ZeakCytho on Fri Aug 29, 2008 9:28 am

Operation Drug War has multiple objectives, so yes, they're possible. And I'd prefer to see both objectives, not just one.
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Re: EUROPE 1914-New Update!28 avg page 1-4

Postby Cdkutusu on Fri Aug 29, 2008 9:48 am

Yes I was about to say that Drug Wars has 4 (I guess 4, right? ) objectives. And its better, if this is a war, Central Powers can win as well :) (I'm Turkish you know :P )
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Re: EUROPE 1914-New Update!28 avg page 1-4

Postby The Viking on Fri Aug 29, 2008 9:55 am

I really don't like the color of the nonplayble territories, I suggest some shade of gray. And you might also want to erase the border between Sweden and Norway.

Fix the spelling in the legend:
Nonplayble territory
Balkan States
Territory, not terittory

Maybe change London to England, unless London has some sort of capital bonus or something?
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Re: EUROPE 1914-New Update!28 avg page 1-4

Postby wcaclimbing on Fri Aug 29, 2008 2:26 pm

[adv. idea]
:)

... just need to wait for one of the CAs to sticky this thread.
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Re: EUROPE 1914-New Update!28 avg page 1-4

Postby Qwert on Fri Aug 29, 2008 3:49 pm

by The Viking on Fri Aug 29, 2008 4:55 pm

I really don't like the color of the nonplayble territories, I suggest some shade of gray. And you might also want to erase the border between Sweden and Norway.

Fix the spelling in the legend:
Nonplayble territory
Balkan States
Territory, not terittory

Maybe change London to England, unless London has some sort of capital bonus or something?

Why will i erase border between Sweden and Norway?
London,Paris,Saint Petersburg and rome will be part of Second victory contition objective.
i will fix name mistake.
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Re: EUROPE 1914-New Update!28 avg page 1-4

Postby lt_oddball on Fri Aug 29, 2008 5:22 pm

qwert wrote:
Why will i erase border between Sweden and Norway? it distracts..has no map meaning..neither has vatican city or andorra.

London,Paris,Saint Petersburg and rome will be part of Second victory contition objective.

This thing about collecting a series of important capitols ..originally you may have thought this to be : you are an entente player and get to occupy these central power capitols and voila the war is over and you deserve a bonus.
That may have been the case in the real world, but on this map, it means as a player you control all central power capitols ..now go for world domination :arrow: :mrgreen: and attack all other territories.
So the bonus significance should be something of the sort "coherent HQ control" or "unified HQ control".
All HQ's of the Entente armies and that of the Central Powers means more effective troops and attack/defense control...that 's what deserves you the bonus :P
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Re: EUROPE 1914-New Update!28 avg page 1-4

Postby t-o-m on Fri Aug 29, 2008 5:24 pm

np qwert :)

As for the update, i love it, but could you turn down the ocpacity of the picture in the sea?
It would be nice with a little more, i wont say texture, but alternating colours for waves, but subtly.
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Re: EUROPE 1914-New Update!28 avg page 1-4

Postby Qwert on Sat Aug 30, 2008 5:57 am

This thing about collecting a series of important capitols ..originally you may have thought this to be : you are an entente player and get to occupy these central power capitols and voila the war is over and you deserve a bonus.
That may have been the case in the real world, but on this map, it means as a player you control all central power capitols ..now go for world domination and attack all other territories.
So the bonus significance should be something of the sort "coherent HQ control" or "unified HQ control".
All HQ's of the Entente armies and that of the Central Powers means more effective troops and attack/defense control...that 's what deserves you the bonus

Aim want to say,that if you hold Central Powers Capital,then game is over and you are winner.Also if you hold all Entente powers capitals you also a winner,no need for any kind of bonuses.
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Re: EUROPE 1914-New Update!30avg page 1-5

Postby Qwert on Sat Aug 30, 2008 10:28 am

Fix and change list:
Fix speling mistakes
Change Yellow to Gray
Erase border-Sweden Norway
Add more opacity on water.
New features;
8 starting position.
new 5 territory.
2 gameplay objective>
If you hold 4 central powers Capitals,game is over and you are winner. If you hold 4 Entente powers capitals,again you are winner.

Click image to enlarge.
image


note-numbers from 1-8 show starting positions,and they will not be on final version.
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Re: EUROPE 1914-New Update!30avg page 1-5

Postby wcaclimbing on Sun Aug 31, 2008 7:56 pm

Here you go quert. Map is looking good. Good luck in the main foundry.
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Re: EUROPE 1914-New Update!30avg page 1-5

Postby Qwert on Thu Sep 04, 2008 3:50 am

by wcaclimbing on Mon Sep 01, 2008 2:56 am

Here you go quert. Map is looking good. Good luck in the main foundry.

Thanks i dont notice that i get Idea stamp.
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Re: EUROPE 1914-New Update!!6sept** page 1-5[IDEA STAMP]

Postby Qwert on Sat Sep 06, 2008 7:35 am

new update-notmuch work to do,fix some borders

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Re: EUROPE 1914-New Update!!6sept** page 1-5[IDEA STAMP]

Postby oaktown on Sat Sep 06, 2008 11:07 am

Hi qwert, this is my first real look at this map, and overall I like where you've taken it visually.

For ease of play it would be good to make the Central and Entente powers shields distinct from each other in some way - a symbol or similar color border so that I can easily recognize from the map alone which four shields I need to hold together.

You have a lot of information in the legend - it takes up a LOT of your map - and yet it still is not clear from my first read what you mean with the Entente Powers legend. For instance, why mention the British Empire, if you aren't going to represent it on the map? It's neither a region nor a territory. And how am I supposed to hold thirteen Entente powers for a +3 bonus when you only tell us what ten of those powers are? Do I need to break out an atlas to figure out what is what, and then look up Ireland in wikipedia to see if it was considered part of the British Empire in 1914? Playing this map will require constantly referring to the legend and other sources.

In adding seas to the map, you have created four dead ends which don't do anything for gameplay. Was Berlin/northern germany the only seaport that exerted any control over the Baltic in 1914? How about Russian dreadnoughts out of St. Petersburg, which, by the way, was renamed Petrograd when the first world war broke out. The Black Sea is nice as it adds connectivity to that side of the map and rids the map of a bottleneck at Erzurum, but since the others seas don't go anywhere or connect anything, I would say get rid of them entirely.

Greece and Cyprus is another dead end... I maybe connect Cyprus to the near east somehow? Or connect Greece to the Med?
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Re: EUROPE 1914-New Update!!6sept** page 1-5[IDEA STAMP]

Postby Androidz on Sat Sep 06, 2008 11:13 am

Oaktown the seas is Starting postions (its a conquest map i belive)
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Re: EUROPE 1914-New Update!!6sept** page 1-5[IDEA STAMP]

Postby oaktown on Sat Sep 06, 2008 11:36 am

Androidz wrote:Oaktown the seas is Starting postions (its a conquest map i belive)


Ah ha, you're right! #-o I saw the bit about eight starting positions, but didn't make the connection that the dead-ends are starting positions.

Does anybody else find those to be odd choices for starting positions? For starters, they only have one outlet, so every game has to start the same way; second, they don't make sense historically - this suggests that outside powers are coming in to take over Europe at the start of the great war. ??
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Re: EUROPE 1914-New Update!!6sept** page 1-5[IDEA STAMP]

Postby Androidz on Sat Sep 06, 2008 11:39 am

oaktown wrote:
Androidz wrote:Oaktown the seas is Starting postions (its a conquest map i belive)


Ah ha, you're right! #-o I saw the bit about eight starting positions, but didn't make the connection that the dead-ends are starting positions.

Does anybody else find those to be odd choices for starting positions? For starters, they only have one outlet, so every game has to start the same way; second, they don't make sense historically - this suggests that outside powers are coming in to take over Europe at the start of the great war. ??


Yeah i agrea with you here, but i guess its kinda hard to make 8 starting postions elsewhere so they dont elimnate echoter on the first round=)
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Re: EUROPE 1914-New Update!!6sept** page 1-5[IDEA STAMP]

Postby oaktown on Sat Sep 06, 2008 11:52 am

Let's nit-pick the 8 starting positions:
-Cyprus
-Iraq
-Finland
-Mediterannean Sea
-North Sea
-Bay of Biscay
-Bs
-Baltic Sea

The Med, North Sea, and Bay of Biscay all dump into the same bonus region, and each only have one way to begin. Those three players have to slog through a pre-determined set of neutrals, only to run into each other. Three bad starts. Med and North Sea are especially bad, since they each have to go through three territories before they can even see another region.

Bs: has two directions in which to go, and three regions to choose to expand into. Nice.

Finland: stuck in Russia, but will quickly control a capital, and nobody else bothers that player.

Iraq: nowhere near a capital, but who cares? Gets to conquer a region unmolested since nobody else starts in/near the Ottoman Empire. Advantage, Iraq.

Cyrpus: if the Bs players goes north or west, great start. if the Bs player goes south, the Cyrpus player is trapped because there is no way out of this region.

Baltic is interesting: only player to start bordering that region; instantly controls one capital, and it will take a while before anybody else can threaten him.

Has the notion of starting in the capitals been suggested? This would spread everybody out at least as well as they are spread out now, and would put everybody in a playable position with options. Then I would say either get rid of the seas, or add some connectivity.

Honestly, I liked this map better when I forgot it was a conquest map. As it is, the players who start in the west will NEVER go east, and the players who start east will NEVER go west. Why should they?

And what will happen in a five player game if only one player starts in the east? Let's say player 1 drops in Bs, and the others are all in western europe? The Bs player gets to casually collect capitals while the other four players crush each other trying to get Paris. Huge advantage to the eastern player, who will never see an opponent.
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Re: EUROPE 1914-New Update!!6sept** page 1-5[IDEA STAMP]

Postby ZeakCytho on Sat Sep 06, 2008 12:07 pm

I agree with what Oaktown said. No conquest gameplay would make me like this map better.
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Re: EUROPE 1914-New Update!!6sept** page 1-5[IDEA STAMP]

Postby Qwert on Sat Sep 06, 2008 12:26 pm

by oaktown on Sat Sep 06, 2008 6:52 pm

Let's nit-pick the 8 starting positions:
-Cyprus
-Iraq
-Finland
-Mediterannean Sea
-North Sea
-Bay of Biscay
-Bs
-Baltic Sea

The Med, North Sea, and Bay of Biscay all dump into the same bonus region, and each only have one way to begin. Those three players have to slog through a pre-determined set of neutrals, only to run into each other. Three bad starts. Med and North Sea are especially bad, since they each have to go through three territories before they can even see another region.

Bs: has two directions in which to go, and three regions to choose to expand into. Nice.

Finland: stuck in Russia, but will quickly control a capital, and nobody else bothers that player.

Iraq: nowhere near a capital, but who cares? Gets to conquer a region unmolested since nobody else starts in/near the Ottoman Empire. Advantage, Iraq.

Cyrpus: if the Bs players goes north or west, great start. if the Bs player goes south, the Cyrpus player is trapped because there is no way out of this region.

Baltic is interesting: only player to start bordering that region; instantly controls one capital, and it will take a while before anybody else can threaten him.

Has the notion of starting in the capitals been suggested? This would spread everybody out at least as well as they are spread out now, and would put everybody in a playable position with options. Then I would say either get rid of the seas, or add some connectivity.

Honestly, I liked this map better when I forgot it was a conquest map. As it is, the players who start in the west will NEVER go east, and the players who start east will NEVER go west. Why should they?

And what will happen in a five player game if only one player starts in the east? Let's say player 1 drops in Bs, and the others are all in western europe? The Bs player gets to casually collect capitals while the other four players crush each other trying to get Paris. Huge advantage to the eastern player, who will never see an opponent.

Ok,so what you propose,dont tell me to eliminate starting position,because these is not so smart to say. Tell what is you think is best for map.
And if you have time you can go to page 1 first post and to read manual for these map,these is what you every time ask from me to write in first page.
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Re: EUROPE 1914-New Update!!6sept** page 1-5[IDEA STAMP]

Postby lt_oddball on Mon Sep 08, 2008 6:25 am

qwert wrote:Ok,so what you propose,dont tell me to eliminate starting position,because these is not so smart to say. Tell what is you think is best for map.
And if you have time you can go to page 1 first post and to read manual for these map,these is what you every time ask from me to write in first page.


one thing that would greatly improve the above problems in western sector and that I suggested before:
SPlit the Anglo-Franco-Italo bonuszone in at least 2 bonuszones !
Name them North sector west allies and south sector west allies..or Anglo-Franco sector (slugging in Flanders mudlands) en Franco-italo sector (doing its worst in the mediteranean and Alps).

:idea:
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Re: EUROPE 1914-New Update!!6sept** page 1-5[IDEA STAMP]

Postby Qwert on Mon Sep 08, 2008 8:30 am

one thing that would greatly improve the above problems in western sector and that I suggested before:
SPlit the Anglo-Franco-Italo bonuszone in at least 2 bonuszones !
Name them North sector west allies and south sector west allies..or Anglo-Franco sector (slugging in Flanders mudlands) en Franco-italo sector (doing its worst in the mediteranean and Alps).


Where will i put Paris then? Spliting Western allied in two sector will not improve starting position at all. If i split these in two sectors what i will get?
Maybe to split in England and france one sector and italy alone second sector? Still these have nothing with starting positions.
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Re: EUROPE 1914-New Update!!6sept** page 1-5[IDEA STAMP]

Postby lt_oddball on Tue Sep 09, 2008 4:38 am

qwert wrote:
one thing that would greatly improve the above problems in western sector and that I suggested before:
SPlit the Anglo-Franco-Italo bonuszone in at least 2 bonuszones !
Name them North sector west allies and south sector west allies..or Anglo-Franco sector (slugging in Flanders mudlands) en Franco-italo sector (doing its worst in the mediteranean and Alps).


Where will i put Paris then? Spliting Western allied in two sector will not improve starting position at all. If i split these in two sectors what i will get?
Maybe to split in England and france one sector and italy alone second sector? Still these have nothing with starting positions.



Paris should be with the Northern or Anglo-franco sector (Paris was threatened by Germany from the north).

Improvement is at least that the starting positions of 5,6 and 7 won't be running in eachother's path.
As the map is now, 5,6 and 7 starters MUST fight eachother for control over WesternAllies..which means numerous turns of throwing new troops at eachother before one or 2 will concentrate on another sector..BY WHICH TIME the 8,4,3,2,1 players have certainly control over a larger and more secure bonusarea.

With my suggested split (or why not the 3 countries?) there is ONLY the 6 player that must choose to wrestle with the 5 or 7 player for bonuszone control.
This is a much fairer starting situation for the 5,6,7 players compared to the 1,2,3,4,8 players.

It is so obvious.
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Re: EUROPE 1914-New Update!!6sept** page 1-5[IDEA STAMP]

Postby ZeakCytho on Tue Sep 09, 2008 8:22 am

I still don't understand why there are start positions.. :|
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Re: EUROPE 1914-New Update!!6sept** page 1-5[IDEA STAMP]

Postby Qwert on Tue Sep 09, 2008 9:17 am

Paris should be with the Northern or Anglo-franco sector (Paris was threatened by Germany from the north).

Improvement is at least that the starting positions of 5,6 and 7 won't be running in eachother's path.
As the map is now, 5,6 and 7 starters MUST fight eachother for control over WesternAllies..which means numerous turns of throwing new troops at eachother before one or 2 will concentrate on another sector..BY WHICH TIME the 8,4,3,2,1 players have certainly control over a larger and more secure bonusarea.

With my suggested split (or why not the 3 countries?) there is ONLY the 6 player that must choose to wrestle with the 5 or 7 player for bonuszone control.
This is a much fairer starting situation for the 5,6,7 players compared to the 1,2,3,4,8 players.

It is so obvious.

3 will be to much- i will create two -Western allies and Italy. You realise that cyprus go to western allied terittory. These is not definiltly starting position,every one can give hes view where can be starting positions.


by ZeakCytho on Tue Sep 09, 2008 3:22 pm

I still don't understand why there are start positions..

And why not. I want to create Conquest map who have gameplay objectives.
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