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Postby zim on Tue Jan 02, 2007 2:48 pm

WidowMakers wrote:Sumatra Still has a line that appears to go to Borneo. I know it doesn't, but the line to the island shows it does. Just letting you know. This is that main cause of confusion with the current map and I do not beleive this map has fixed the issue. If you want to keep it the same, make Borneo smaller and move it up so the line from Sumatra and Sulawesi is not broken. Then connect Sulawesi and Borneo.


Huh? I didn't move the lines, I removed the Brunei/Central Indonesia border and renamed the resulting parts Borneo (the northern island) and Sulawesi (the southern island). Maybe it is clearer to think of it as I removed Brunei entirely and split the former Central Indonesia into two parts (Boreno/Sulawesi)?

Anyway, the west most line goes from the island of Sumatra to the island of Borneo. Borneo in turn is connected to the island of Sulawesi and to the Phillipine archipelago.

Cheers,

Zim
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Postby AndyDufresne on Tue Jan 02, 2007 2:51 pm

Zim, could you make the line connecting Java and Sumatra clear? It is a faded line.

Also, what about the discussion of making SA 8, and the Far East 3? I remember some of that was floating around.

Could you also look into making the Italy/Greece area clearer? It looks almost as if they are borders, but they in fact aren't, correct? Play around with the placement of the army shadow...or perhaps you could skew Italy a little.

Another area to look into, the Afghanistan/China area. Could you make it even more obvious that they don't touch?

Lastly, could you erase a little more of the black border around Taiwan, to clear up any confusion about it being Blue?


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Postby WidowMakers on Tue Jan 02, 2007 5:39 pm

Sorry i was basing my statement on the XML in your post. Since you say that the islands are correct, the XML must be wrong. Sumatra does not have lines to Borneo or vice versa. Here are the pics

Image
Image

I think you just need to update the connection code in the file. However this will effect games currently in play. Which is something you wanted to avoid.
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Postby zim on Tue Jan 02, 2007 6:57 pm

Widowmaker,

Thanks for the catch, brain cramp on my part. Updated XML is here..


http://www.zims.com/blog/images/v21v2.xml


Cheers,

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Postby Lupo on Tue Jan 02, 2007 8:47 pm

So you didn't find any better solution for Moskva-Norway connection than erase it complitely? :(
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Postby qeee1 on Tue Jan 02, 2007 10:53 pm

Whatever you do, DON'T SPLIT CHINA, that's one of the hooks in this map.

The only problem I've had is Java Sumatra border... didn't realise it existed.

Anyway I haven't been paying much attention to the bug reports so it's probably already been said, but just had to get the not splitting china thing in.
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Postby zarvinny on Tue Jan 09, 2007 7:26 pm

glad to see that venezuela is going to be spelled correctly this time. :shock:
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Postby Triop on Tue Jan 09, 2007 8:26 pm

i LOVE the new map of it, its better then the one we have now :D
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Postby casper on Tue Jan 09, 2007 9:12 pm

Any chance you can move the word Panama from the right to the left so it's under the word Guatemala? Would make it more obvious which is which. Right now the word Panama is north of the word Guatemala even though Panama is south of Guatemala. Otherwise it looks great. Excellent map even if it is a bit frustrating. :D
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Postby sully800 on Tue Jan 09, 2007 9:16 pm

Another problem I have is with the Phillippines. I know that the central indonesia label has a connecting line, but its so close to the Phillippines I have deployed to the wrong country many times. Moving either label down might solve the problem, or maybe its just me. :P
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Postby morph on Wed Jan 10, 2007 12:19 am

not sure if it is posted but umm antarctic.. you get no bonus from it.. so whats the point of it having its own color or it being mentioned that you get no bonus from it... make it part of Australia... the claim goes to the area and such for the bonus...
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Postby Coleman on Sat Jan 13, 2007 4:01 pm

morph wrote:not sure if it is posted but umm antarctic.. you get no bonus from it.. so whats the point of it having its own color or it being mentioned that you get no bonus from it... make it part of Australia... the claim goes to the area and such for the bonus...


There are a lot of maps with spaces that aren't worth anything. Such as the seas in Alexander's map, or the Quad and parking lot in CCU for example. The point of having those spaces are the awesome attack routes they give you, nothing else. Making it a part of Australia would require some heavy bonus changes and wouldn't make any sense to me.
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Postby Coleman on Sat Jan 13, 2007 4:05 pm

Change the 2.0 to 2.1 next time you update your changes to the map. :lol:
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Australia's borders

Postby baglieg on Tue Jan 16, 2007 10:25 am

Image

In world 2.0, the continent outlines were drawn from a Robinson projection, which has curved meridians, but some of the territory borders appear to have been drawn from something like a Mercator projection with straight meridians.

So the borders in Australia and between Papua and Sarong, which are all more or less North/South, should be slanted to match the way the Robinson projection distorts the continents near the corners of the map.

Otherwise the borders meet the sea at all the wrong places, which just looks weird because, among other things, it puts Melbourne and Hobart in the wrong third of the continent.
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Postby Gilligan on Tue Jan 16, 2007 7:54 pm

I just realized you italicized the ZIM in Zimbabwe. :lol:
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Postby dunca122 on Sun Jan 21, 2007 9:29 pm

is there anyway that the antartic could have a bonus for holding all 4 countries even if it's just 3 or 4 maybe.
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Postby zim on Sun Jan 21, 2007 11:20 pm

Forgers,

Updated versions are below. Sorry for the slow updates been busy in real life ;) Need to convince my company (and my wife) that I need a day a week for Conquer Club, sorta like Google's 20% of your time for 'fun' coding or something...

Large:
Image

Small:
Image

XML:
http://www.zims.com/blog/images/v21v2.xml

AndyDufresne wrote:Zim, could you make the line connecting Java and Sumatra clear? It is a faded line.

Also, what about the discussion of making SA 8, and the Far East 3? I remember some of that was floating around.

Could you also look into making the Italy/Greece area clearer? It looks almost as if they are borders, but they in fact aren't, correct? Play around with the placement of the army shadow...or perhaps you could skew Italy a little.

Another area to look into, the Afghanistan/China area. Could you make it even more obvious that they don't touch?

Lastly, could you erase a little more of the black border around Taiwan, to clear up any confusion about it being Blue?


--Andy


Andy, all suggestions addressed in this version (other than the bonus changes), let me know what you think. On the bonuses I think it's a pick'em as to whether they need adjusting and I'd like to err on the side of leaving them as is particularly as no one has come forward arguing in favour of the change...

Lupo wrote:So you didn't find any better solution for Moskva-Norway connection than erase it complitely? :(

No, I know there is a border there in real life but I think it's better for playability and for avoiding confusion to edit this one.

casper wrote:Any chance you can move the word Panama from the right to the left so it's under the word Guatemala? Would make it more obvious which is which. Right now the word Panama is north of the word Guatemala even though Panama is south of Guatemala. Otherwise it looks great. Excellent map even if it is a bit frustrating.


Good idea, done.

sully800 wrote:Another problem I have is with the Phillippines. I know that the central indonesia label has a connecting line, but its so close to the Phillippines I have deployed to the wrong country many times. Moving either label down might solve the problem, or maybe its just me.


Sully, should be clearer now with the renaming/relabeling of the Indonesian bits, let me know what you think.

Coleman wrote:Change the 2.0 to 2.1 next time you update your changes to the map.


Good idea, done.

baglieg wrote:In world 2.0, the continent outlines were drawn from a Robinson projection, which has curved meridians, but some of the territory borders appear to have been drawn from something like a Mercator projection with straight meridians.

So the borders in Australia and between Papua and Sarong, which are all more or less North/South, should be slanted to match the way the Robinson projection distorts the continents near the corners of the map.

Otherwise the borders meet the sea at all the wrong places, which just looks weird because, among other things, it puts Melbourne and Hobart in the wrong third of the continent.


Baglieg, you're mostly right, the Australian borders are definitely skewed by the difference in projections I think Papau/Sarong border is probably pretty close to OK given that it's less distorted as it's further north but regardless it's way beyond my cartographic and illustrator skills (and the time I've got available for the map) to fix all the projection distortions on the map (there are also impacts in the north as well though less severe). If you want to take a stab at it let me know otherwise I'm afraid the Sydney Hobart race just got a little tougher...

dunca122 wrote:s there anyway that the antartic could have a bonus for holding all 4 countries even if it's just 3 or 4 maybe.


'fraid not; it's too cold, the ground keeps cracking beneath an armies feet and the penguin shit is impossible to get off your boots. If anything it should be -1 :twisted:

Cheers,

Zim
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Postby AndyDufresne on Sun Jan 21, 2007 11:37 pm

2 Minor things. The connection line between Sumatra and Java is a light line, as opposed to the darker variant.

Also, the Italy // Greece no border is better on the large map, but I'm almost afraid the numbers by hide the adjustment on the small. If possible, make it even more noticeable, either by adding more water in between then, or perhaps playing with the army shadow placement.


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Postby zim on Mon Jan 22, 2007 11:18 pm

AndyDufresne wrote:2 Minor things. The connection line between Sumatra and Java is a light line, as opposed to the darker variant.

Also, the Italy // Greece no border is better on the large map, but I'm almost afraid the numbers by hide the adjustment on the small. If possible, make it even more noticeable, either by adding more water in between then, or perhaps playing with the army shadow placement.


--Andy


Yep missed that darn line again; anyway fixed now.

Made the heel of Italy a little smaller and thinned the border of Greece a pixel or two...

Cheers,

Zim

Image

Image
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Postby AndyDufresne on Mon Jan 22, 2007 11:50 pm

Looks good! As always, post links to the large and the small and the xml.

And do you want the new name to be World 2.1?


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Postby SkyCaptain on Tue Jan 23, 2007 11:20 am

So how does this all affect games currently being played? Or will it only affect games that are started?
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Postby Wisse on Tue Jan 23, 2007 11:41 am

can you make the name bolivia better in the tiny version its horrible to read more than boli
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Postby Molacole on Tue Jan 23, 2007 6:17 pm

Hey zim are territory bonuses up for discussion? I play this map a lot and think a few of them could be changed to help balance the map out some.
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Postby zim on Tue Jan 23, 2007 9:22 pm

AndyDufresne wrote:Looks good! As always, post links to the large and the small and the xml.


Large link: http://www.zims.com/blog/images/w21v3large.png

Small link: http://www.zims.com/blog/images/w21v3small.png

XML link: http://www.zims.com/blog/images/v21v2.xml

AndyDufresne wrote:And do you want the new name to be World 2.1?


Andy, I'd rather just keep World 2.0 but I don't know how you want to handle version control. I'm assuming this version can not just overwrite the existing version without breaking games in progress. If that's the case I guess I'd install this one as World 2.1 and then 'lock' the existing World 2.0 so that no new games can be started on it. Anyway I'm OK with it as 2.0 or 2.1 which ever is less hassle for the site. If you use 2.1 the XML will need to be updated with that name in the header.

SkyCaptain wrote:So how does this all affect games currently being played? Or will it only affect games that are started?


I'm curious too, see above...

Wisse wrote:can you make the name bolivia better in the tiny version its horrible to read more than boli


Wisse, I've tried to make it as clear as possible but given the colour scheme that's about as good as it's going to get...

Molacole wrote:Hey zim are territory bonuses up for discussion? I play this map a lot and think a few of them could be changed to help balance the map out some.


Molacole, happy to discuss the bonuses with you. Let me know what you think could be tweaked...

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Postby Molacole on Wed Jan 24, 2007 5:55 am

I would like to see another bonus in europe. Maybe if moskva colour was worth 2 then people might consider taking europe off the start instead of ignoring it for easier regions with better short term rewards and less borders. I also think that it would make N america harder to hold also.


I would like to see the horn worth less than 3 points. -1 maybe and make mahgreb worth 6 instead of 5 because it has 5 borders and 9 territories and from experience has been prooven to be very hard to hold. It doesn't really add up for the horn though because it still has 3 borders, but from what I've seen is people tend to ignore the middle east and that makes taking the horn that much easier.

or

I would like to see middle east worth more than 4 points. 5 seems like a good number for this one because it has 4 borders with 7 territories. This also prooves hard to hold when the horn is usually one of the first bonuses snatched up and usually in the first 2 rounds.

Also if java is part of indonesia I think it should be worth more because south africa is worth 4 with 3 borders and 7 territories. If indonesia has 4 borders and 6 territories it's a lot harder to hold than south africa and worth the same? if java isn't then just ignore that one. I never tried to take just indonesia before so I'm not sure.

this is just from a playability perspective.
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