World 2.0/1 Map [Quenched]

[P Gizzle]

maybe, since you included Alaska, include Hawaii. There would only be one way in, from Indonesia, and one way out, to US

[zim]

Thanks for the feedback so far. See my comments below...

Andy wrote: One obvious problem is country dispersion. Take a look at the west, and then look at Africa and beyond. Would be rather difficult to fit names and army shadows in the smaller areas.

Marvaddin wrote: this is obviously why the classic map is that way we all know. It simply cant have all real countries.

Sully800 wrote: I've also been thinking about a World Map instead of the classic map....one with a lot of countries compared to the classic map. However you can't include EVERY country you have on your map right now because as others said the playability would be terrible. Many of the smaller countries would need to be consolidated into larger ones....and some of the larger ones could possibly be broken up into smaller ones. But if you do that then you are on the path of literally recreating the classic map....so I don't know.

I agree and I'm hoping to address this two ways. First on the pure logistics of fitting the circles and names I've cut a few corners and I think I've managed to squeeze everything in reasonably though it is tight. The second challenge is the discrepancy in number of countries per continent and number of borders. I think the borders are the smaller problem and can be dealt with by a few country mergers and sea routes. The country counts are tougher as balance would require radical changes in political boundries either splitting NA into states/provinces or major mergers in Asia and Africa. I don't want to do either if the problem can be solved by creative use of bonuses. I could however be persuaded to do the split Canada and US into states/provinces if playability requires. Do any of the existing maps have significantly different numbers of countries per continent, I've mostly played classic and a little europe so far? The merger route doesn't appeal as I think we'd pretty quickly end up with a knock off of classic which isn't the intent.

As an aside do you think that a 1000 or even 1200 pixels wide maps is possible given the way the sites is coded, it looks to my (uneducated) eye that the game play code and XML would work with an arbitrary map size but I don't know whether the layout would break, etc.

Marvaddin wrote: Ps: by the way, you forgot Denmark.

Thanks for the reminder. When I looked at the map to add them now with the text and circles I think I'll have to sacrifice the Danes to the pixel count and merge them with Germany. Dear Denmark, it's nothing personal and please don't take away my Carlsberg as punishment. Dear Germany, you owe me one and what with Octoberfest coming up....

Speisr wrote: No offense, but this map is terrible...

None taken.

Happysadfun wrote: And it wouldn't hurt to merge western sahara and morocco. the latter conquered the former. ireland+britain does not equal uk and never will! You should merge more little countries and split big ones like brazil, us, canada, and russia. it would be way too hard to hold russia. 8 borders could be a continent in itself! Hey that's a pretty good idea i made. Split Russia up and make it a continent! And Indonesia is widely considered to be Asian rather than Australian. But keep the Papua in there.

Probably will merge western sahara and morocco though I'm not sure what the legal status of the latter is. I'm resisting splitting or merging for the reasons above and I've arbitrarily put indonesia in Oceana/Australia given it's island nature. I agree Russia will be hard to defend this will need to be addressed either by making it particularly valuable to hold or perhaps by reconfiguring it's borders. See P Gizzle's suggestion and my comments below.

P. Gizzle wrote: maybe, since you included Alaska, include Hawaii. There would only be one way in, from Indonesia, and one way out, to US

I like this idea and want to include more of the pacific islands (I was dying to make a last stand on Fiji ) So far though given the 800 pixel limit I've decide to sacrifice the oceans (I've smooshed the Atlantic and the grey swoosh wrap arounds in the pacific will need to be cropped) in order to maximize the space for land mass. I think we should see how the bonuses work out and how the map plays and then North America or Oceana are relatively too strong add Hawaii to give the both one more border. But I don't feel strongly about it what do you think?

Happysadfun wrote: Good map. But get rid of the little apostrophes.

I was trying to use them to distinguish the 'fake' from the real countries though I realize I missed including them in several of my made up/merged countries. Do you think it's worthwhile to include them if I'm consistant or should they go for all countries?


Thanks for the comments and suggestions so far.

Cheers,

Zim

[P Gizzle]

personally, i just thought it would be relatively accurate, since the polynesians came, and some went to US and fun. i've never seen a map with a country where you can only go in it one way and out one way. try if u can, but it's not a big deal

[gavin_sidhu]

Good map. But get rid of the little apostrophes. Malaysia would be the continental part. The insular part would be Malasian Borneo.

Call the insular part Brunei. Split Russia up into European and asian russia. Dont split Indonesia into so many areas, put East Timor and unite some of the other areas.

[sully800]

You don't have to keep the continents as the real continents. In fact, I think that would reduce all playability of the game (except for escalating where continents don't matter).


Africe has 32 countries. It would be simply impossible to capture. Break that up into 3 seperate continents and it MIGHT be feasible. This would also let you have more borders for some continents.

I agree that pacific islands should be added.

Europe is the biggest single problem right now I think. It's simply too crowded. You can't distinguish the country borders, or the names of the countries very easily.

[gavin_sidhu]

I like the continents as is. Join phillipines to Taiwan and fix up your colouring. Some countries you have gotten rid of are still there in colourm eg: Bhutan and Dijibouti. How many reinforcements will you get per turn if you play 3 player?

[Marvaddin]

A few more country mergers and names. Pretty cluttered but work able?

No, nothing workable here. This map is a new concept of confusion, simply this. Sincerely, you can make a good map with 90 countries, but you need merge more, and split the big ones.

And even with less crowded names, I think the circles are not in a good size, so...

[zim]

I've included a few of the improvements suggested by various folks (reworked the european labels and removed the Benelux for space, joined Philipines/Taiwan, cleaned up some colour issues, removed the ' marks from merged/invented country names, etc.)

I've also taken a first stab at the bonuses.

North America - 5
South America - 6
Africa - 12
Europe - 9
Asia - 14
Oceania - 5

I think the ratio is about right given the countries/borders in each continent but the numbers could be adjusted depending on the desired length of play and average number of players/teams i.e.

North America - 2
South America - 3
Africa - 6
Europe - 5
Asia - 7
Oceania - 2

Thoughts?

Zim

[cowshrptrn]

paint some lines blue and make them rivers, so its not so difficult to hold some of the countries, combine the Koreas, Pakistan + Afganistan, and a few others. It might not be as accurate, but it will be easier to discern wat borders what.

[onbekende]

Code: Select all

Some things I say now. Feel free to do with them as you please.

North America: -Maybe make a new territore as big as the 13 original states, and connect them to UK
South America: -Fine
Europe:        -Britain + Ireland = UK
               -Spain + Portugal = Iberia
Africa:        -Djibouti is stil on it.
Azia:          -North Korea + South Korea = Korea
               -Maybe add Tibet
Oceania:       -Fine

Use them as you want, and only if others agree

[steve monkey]

if you're going to merge Britain and Ireland then be accurate and call it the British Isles - Ireland is not part of the UK.

[Marvaddin]

Are you from Indonesia?? I cant understand Indonesia being splitted in many countries, while Brazil, USA, Canada, China, Australia and Asian Russia are not.

Again, the map is very confuse, with numbers it will be probably terrible. You can design the map, but merge some more countries.

Countries I think should disappear: Tierra del Fuego, Ireland, Portugal, Tunisia, Cote Divoire, Cameroon, CAR, Nairobi (or Zambia), Levant, Caucases, Sri Lanka, Malaysia, Cambodia, Bangladesh, New Caledonia and one Korea. Please split the big ones, and make the map less crowded, specially in areas like Africa Coast and Siam.

Also, I dont think the real continents are a good idea. Many many turns until someone holds a continent, then game over, since the bonuses are huge. 1 turn bonus of 12 armies is sufficient to decide a game, usually. Or 2-3 turns with a bonus of 6.

Im still worried about those circles, I think they are small to the numbers.

[onbekende]

England + Ireland = British Islands
North Korea + South Korea = Korea
Spain + Portugal = Iberian penninsule
Vietnam + Cambodia = Indo-China
Idia + Sri Lanka + Bangladesh = British India
Malaysia + Brunei = Malaysia
Sumatra + Java + Borneo + Sorong = Indonasia
Gabon + Cameroon + C.A.R. = French equatorial Africa
Zambia + Zimbabwe = Rhodesia
European Russia + Caucases = European Russia
Algeria + Tunesia = French Algeria

USA = Western USA + Eastern USA
USA = Confederate States + Federale States
USA = split up by year of annexation
Canada = Like the Risk Map
China = Tibet + "early empires" + "rest"
Australia = like Risk map
Asian Russia = see the Russian Risk map

Those are the tings I could find for Marvaddin's list

[Dehumidifier]

I just want to say that I really like how this map is developing, I'm really looking forward to playing it.

[sully800]

Also, make the continent colors way more uniform. Right now they hardly match the colors in the key at all

[gavin_sidhu]

Also, make the continent colors way more uniform. Right now they hardly match the colors in the key at all

I dont think you need colour coordinated continents. The current classic map doesnt have it, and everyone plays that. People know the world continents already.

[zim]

Thanks for all the comments and suggestions. I've incorporated most of them into the version below. I think the main exception is I have not rejoined Indonesia into fewer pieces. This is not because I'm from there (I'm Canadian) but to give Oceanea more territories and more borders (and because I like the idea of an island hoping battle but that's secondary).

I've also grown the circles +10% (17x17 now) on the advice of Marvaddin.

Next with all the merging and such in the last two versions I expect the borders/continents math is out of whack hence the temporary red line through the legend. On the topic of bonuses Marvaddin comments that 12 armies can decide a game and I agree completely on Classic but what do you all think given the size and complexity of this map? We could halve the bonuses from my initial suggestions and I think still have balance of power but would the game be too long? Anyway I'm interested in the wisdom of the board on this, what do you all think?

Cheers,

Zim

[onbekende]

Thanks for doing some of my suggestions, If you need any more map-making questions involving merging, splitting and naming: pm me.
I have some atlasses to assist me.

[P Gizzle]

what if you didnt base bonuses off strategic power, but power in the real world. Like, what you could do, or even me, is rank the countries by order of power right now. like, US could be 1 and etc. then you add up all the numbers. the continent with the lowest number would have the highest bonus and so on

[wcaclimbing]

And just for kicks who says north is up? Maybe "the enemies gate is down"? Definately makes better use of the 800 pixel limit but?

nice Ender's Game reference

Edit: All of the books in Ender's Game and Ender's Shadow series are my favorite books ever

[happysadfun]

replace brunei with sabah

[Marvaddin]

Bonus of 12 would be too much. Maybe not in escalating games, but in flat rate and specially no cards, game over. No one would get another continent. But, the games would last 2 centuries before someone hold a continent, too. No... continents that big arent good, I think, lets make more than 6 continents, friend.

About countries:
I still think Cote Divoire has a big name and would be better remove it.
Central America? Please, please change that name...
Do you really want those insignificant things like Tierra del Fuego in the map? Use the big ones is my suggestion.
In Asia, I think would be better having Russia splitted than those minor countries like Sri Lanka, and mainly Taiwan and Malaysia (lets use simplest routes in those points?)
Ok, you want split Indonesia, but 4 is too much, isnt it?
How about to use Antartic? It will not be an accurate one without it! The territories can be named France possession or something alike.

[gavin_sidhu]

replace brunei with sabat

Im guessing you mean Sabah? The region he/she called Brunei contains the east malaysian states of Sabah and Sarawak, as well as Brunei. The land was all part of Brunei until British came and took it and gave it to Malaysia. My ancestors lived in Malaysia and i think it should be called Brunei, as its the real world map and should have more country names then state names in it.

[wcaclimbing]

Bonus of 12 would be too much.

that bonus really isnt that much, considering with 114 countries and 6 people, each person would get 6 armies on their first turn.

that difference between bonus and initial armies isnt that big considering in classic map you get 3 armies to start and the largest bonus is 7.

3/7 is more of a change than 6/12

[losrivas]

I really like the idea of this map. I have a couple suggestions:

1. This map needs more continents. More continents would help the game progress faster but would solve the problem of Africa being too valuble. Possible splits:

Africa = North Africa + Sub-Saharan Africa
Asia = Middle East + Orient + Former Soviet Union (would have to split up Russia some more)
Europe could remain as is, it would be the Mother Load, the equivalent of Asia on the Classic map, i.e. take Europe = Total Domination

Crazy idea I had: What if there were some non-adjacent connections, like in the Philipines map? That would add to the "Modernity" of the map, since countries that are adjacent to each other aren't necessarily the ones fighting these days. What if USA had "aerial" connections to other spots on the globe, like the Middle East or Korea? That would give USA more borders without adding more territories, and make North America a more valuable continent. Another idea that was proposed earlier was to give some more powerful countries an additional bonus, like the US or China, etc. These little bonuses could help the game move along quicker even before any continents have been secured.

What do you think?