Monsters! - Battle for the Powerstones

[dolomite13]

By the way. Most of the team games have no strategy here. First to get a monster and powerstone wins 90% of the games. 10% he gets bad dice.

Hmmm interesting, so far what I have seen is that any team that works together stacking to do what you have suggested as strategy is competitive and can win. It's the teams that don't work to get the bonuses early that end up loosing.. In my opinion this is pretty much how all team games on all maps work. I will take a look at some finished games logs and see if this is indeed true that it happens 90% of the time.

What I am more surprised about is how much fun I find fog of war on this map considering I normally despise it.

=D=

[dolomite13]

Lightening Bolts / Spells

I have noticed that by having the lightening bolts simply drop by 2 that players are sort of getting stuck on that spell and must sit through several turns of a losing game before they are eliminated. This is causing games to go longer than intended.

Possible fix....

I propose putting lightening bolt back the way it was... resetting to 3 neutral every turn... but to fix the original issue that you can't get your forces off of lightening bolt I propose changing both spells, mind blast and lightening bolt to allow them to assault the powerstone that they are linked with. This would allow players to use either spell and with mind blast they could choose to advance their forces or return them to the powerstone with lightening bolt they could bombard till they are out of forces or return the forces to the powerstone.

ANY THOUGHTS?

=D=

[natty dread]

I don't know. Part of the attraction of the spells was (to me) that you had to consider how many troops you would advance on them, because you could not get them back. Now if you can just move the troops back from the spells it becomes too easy to use them.

There are lots of maps where you can get "trapped" on bombardment-only territories. Poland, Waterloo etc. I don't think it's a big deal.

[drunkmonkey]

I don't know. I don't like the ability to move back and forth, for natty's reasons. But when you think about it, you can basically do that now with Mind Blast (as long as you control the nearest runebound monster), so why not have the ability for Lightning Bolt? Through all the games I've played on Monsters, I've never used Lightning Bolt, but I might if I could get my troops back. Then again, that might make it TOO powerful.

[Dako]

I think you just leave it as is. Being stuck there is no problem for me.

And about team games - I meant every team chooses the player they stack on. After that he goes for the monster/powerstone and the 1st one to get better luck wins the game (because he can assault the other monster and it is not that hard). So this map is nice, but there is not strategy involved for team games. Maybe for singles, yes, but not the teams.

[dolomite13]

I agree about the not moving back for lightening bolt ... i know that i do use it and used it before when it reset to 3 to clean people off of powerstones ... it seems alot easier to do that now and less of a strategic decision...

[dolomite13]

In one game that I know of the game engine dropped starting forces on the lightening bolts ... has anyone else seen this?

=D=

[danryan]

Yes, both of us just dropped lightning bolts to start, something wrong there. Game 7279430

[dolomite13]

Yes, both of us just dropped lightning bolts to start, something wrong there. Game 7279430

Hrmmm... I will look at the code when I get home tomorrow I am out of town and don't have access to it.

[MrBenn]

Make sure they're coded as neutrals in the <territory> tags

[dolomite13]

Make sure they're coded as neutrals in the <territory> tags

They are not I will see if I can fix it from this laptop.

=D=

[dolomite13]

http://www.bigottergames.com/downloads/monsters15.xml

- Neutral 3 added to the lightening bolts ... looks like when i changed it from killer neutral to bonus -2 i dropped the neutral declaration

=D=

[Dako]

Bad boy! :)

[drunkmonkey]

Game 7282507 - Every Lightning Bolt has starting forces.

[joxter14]

I think it should be the way it was originally. Since you win with holding powerstones, lightningbolt should be the harder spell to use. And I like that you really have to considered how many troops you are willing to risk putting onto the spell, because you might lose some of them when it reset.

I've been playing a 1 on 1 monsters game and I was dropped onto 5 of the lightning bolts, the other guy onto none. That gave the other guy 5 more monsters than me to start. Initial dropping onto the LB does not make the play balanced.

[dolomite13]

I think it should be the way it was originally. Since you win with holding powerstones, lightningbolt should be the harder spell to use. And I like that you really have to considered how many troops you are willing to risk putting onto the spell, because you might lose some of them when it reset.

I am starting to think that's true...

=D=

[djak.]

I was dropped onto 5 of the lightning bolts, the other guy onto none. That gave the other guy 5 more monsters than me to start. Initial dropping onto the LB does not make the play balanced.

I got dropped on 4 Ls in a 3 player, the disadvantage leading to me to now only have 4 armies - all on Ls, and I can only bombard, not attack.

I think it should be the way it was originally.

ASAP.

[fumandomuerte]

I was dropped onto 5 of the lightning bolts, the other guy onto none. That gave the other guy 5 more monsters than me to start. Initial dropping onto the LB does not make the play balanced.

I got dropped on 4 Ls in a 3 player, the disadvantage leading to me to now only have 4 armies - all on Ls, and I can only bombard, not attack.

I think it should be the way it was originally.

ASAP.

Yeah, you should somehow re-write the XML for the spells. I'm in a 6 players game and two of us started with 2 Lightning Bolts... That's -4 troops...

[dolomite13]

The xml for lightening bolt dropping players has been fixed and submitted for upload.

I am conflicted over the changes from lightening bolt resetting to 3 neutral to -2 per turn... on one hand lightening bolt becomes useful and people use it more ... on the other hand you can see all of the powerstones in a fog of war game just by holding that. I am really thinking making it reset would help the map in the long run ... but maybe the reset number could be decreased to 1 neutral... any thoughts?

=D=

[dolomite13]

Yeah, you should somehow re-write the XML for the spells. I'm in a 6 players game and two of us started with 2 Lightning Bolts... That's -4 troops...

Lightening bolts should not be giving a -2 they should be degrading by 2 according to the xml

=D+

[MrBenn]

The updates have gone live...

[drunkmonkey]

Yeah, you should somehow re-write the XML for the spells. I'm in a 6 players game and two of us started with 2 Lightning Bolts... That's -4 troops...

Lightening bolts should not be giving a -2 they should be degrading by 2 according to the xml

=D+

They are, but BOB adds the [-2] to your total expected reinforcements. I'm guessing he was confused by that.

[dolomite13]

Yeah, you should somehow re-write the XML for the spells. I'm in a 6 players game and two of us started with 2 Lightning Bolts... That's -4 troops...

Lightening bolts should not be giving a -2 they should be degrading by 2 according to the xml

=D+

They are, but BOB adds the [-2] to your total expected reinforcements. I'm guessing he was confused by that.

Ah that explains it... for now then lightening bolt will only change in that you wont start on them and they will simply decay by 2... if you eliminate all but the forces someone has on a lighteing bolt ... well then take them out there as well

[MrBenn]

How do you feel about the update? Are you going to stick with it, or do you see further tweaks down the line?

[dolomite13]

How do you feel about the update? Are you going to stick with it, or do you see further tweaks down the line?

Honestly I believe that how the map is right now is pretty darn good ... I was torn on the lightning bolts between resetting to 3 neutral and simply decaying but I am starting to believe that the decay option is better in that once you have an army there it is sort of a sentry watching all of the powerstones in a fog of war game. The possibility that someone will eliminate all your forces except the lightning bolt exists and could slow down a game but I do believe the the benefits outweigh this negative. So I would say the map is done ... I need to go enter the info for the map into the map info database thing yet =)

=D=