Monsters! - Battle for the Powerstones

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Re: Monsters! [D,GP,GR,XML,BETA] - QUENCHED!

Postby greenoaks on Mon Sep 27, 2010 2:52 am

so if i want it to reset to 8 i need to knock off those 4

edit: i just took another look at the map. no mention of them being killer neutrals. the map says

Shields
Reset to 8 every turn


but they are not resetting like the map instructions say they will
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Re: Monsters! [D,GP,GR,XML,BETA] - QUENCHED!

Postby natty dread on Mon Sep 27, 2010 3:57 am

That's how killer neutrals always work. They reset at the beginning of the turn of the player holding them. If nobody holds them obviously they do not reset.
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Re: Monsters! [D,GP,GR,XML,BETA] - QUENCHED!

Postby ender516 on Mon Sep 27, 2010 12:42 pm

Unfortunately, this is not obvious to someone unfamiliar with the way killer neutrals work on CC. The legend should perhaps say, "When held, reset to 8 every turn". And we can't even point to the Instructions as I don't think they explain this sort of thing at all, unlike objectives, which are another feature perennially confusing to novices, but which do have a mention on the Gameplay Notes tab of the Instructions page. We regulars in the Map Foundry get so accustomed to the way these features work, we can forget that not everyone knows how these features are implemented. Really, if you don't take the time to think through the implications for fairness, it is easy to imagine that killer neutrals could reset every round even when not held by a player.
Rather than propose a revamp on all the maps that do not make this clear, perhaps we should suggest an update to the instructions which explains the killer neutral feature in detail.
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Re: Monsters! [D,GP,GR,XML,BETA] - QUENCHED!

Postby greenoaks on Mon Sep 27, 2010 4:59 pm

i do not visit the foundry so yes, a clearer explanation for the other 99% of CC'ers would be great

as it is now, the map is broken or the legend is poor

edit: is this going to be fixed ?
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Re: Monsters! [D,GP,GR,XML,BETA] - QUENCHED!

Postby greenoaks on Sun Oct 17, 2010 12:41 am

greenoaks wrote:i do not visit the foundry so yes, a clearer explanation for the other 99% of CC'ers would be great

as it is now, the map is broken or the legend is poor

edit: is this going to be fixed ?

is anything going to be done to fix this ?
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Re: Monsters! [D,GP,GR,XML,BETA] - QUENCHED!

Postby drunkmonkey on Sun Oct 17, 2010 2:32 am

greenoaks wrote:
greenoaks wrote:i do not visit the foundry so yes, a clearer explanation for the other 99% of CC'ers would be great

as it is now, the map is broken or the legend is poor

edit: is this going to be fixed ?

is anything going to be done to fix this ?


Since the map has been quenched for 2 months without complaint, I'd say 99% of CC'ers "get it". Dawn of Ages & Das Schloss have the same type of wording...if this has to be changed, we need to look at every map with killer neutrals. I don't see it necessary.
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Re: Monsters! [D,GP,GR,XML,BETA] - QUENCHED!

Postby greenoaks on Sun Oct 17, 2010 9:26 am

drunkmonkey wrote:
greenoaks wrote:
greenoaks wrote:i do not visit the foundry so yes, a clearer explanation for the other 99% of CC'ers would be great

as it is now, the map is broken or the legend is poor

edit: is this going to be fixed ?

is anything going to be done to fix this ?


Since the map has been quenched for 2 months without complaint, I'd say 99% of CC'ers "get it". ...if Dawn of Ages & Das Schloss have the same type of wording this has to be changed, we need to look at every map with killer neutrals. I don't see it necessary.

then every map with so called 'killer neutrals' is flawed

nowhere on the map does it mention it is a killer neutral terit so i am not prompted to look at the Instructions tab to find out what these killer neutrals are.

this map is flawed and was prematurely quenched

drunkmonkey wrote:if Dawn of Ages & Das Schloss have the same type of wording this has to be changed, we need to look at every map with killer neutrals. I don't see it necessary.

i have never seen a map say they contain a "killer neutral"

what is a "killer neutral" ?

show me where it is explained to the general public in the "Instructions" tab (or in the map legend) what a "killer neutral" is
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Re: Monsters! [D,GP,GR,XML,BETA] - QUENCHED!

Postby ender516 on Sun Oct 17, 2010 4:34 pm

Sadly, the Instructions are lacking in this area, but rest assured, work is in progress to update them and make this and many other features of CC more clear.
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Re: Monsters! [D,GP,GR,XML,BETA] - QUENCHED!

Postby MrBenn on Wed Oct 27, 2010 9:40 am

ender516 wrote:Sadly, the Instructions are lacking in this area, but rest assured, work is in progress to update them and make this and many other features of CC more clear.

Yes; we're actively working on improving the gameplay instructions. Hopefully there will also be some other behind-the-scenes changes to make it easier to pick up on map-specific instructions too ;-)
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Re: Monsters! [D,GP,GR,XML,BETA] - QUENCHED!

Postby TaCktiX on Mon Jan 24, 2011 3:32 pm

I'm going to lodge a complaint about misleading wording for the "Mind Blast" powerstone ability. The legend says "assaults", which I rightly interpret to mean "can conquer and advance troops to." Well no, you can't do that, it's a bombard. I likely just lost a Doubles match because of this bad terminology.
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Re: Monsters! [D,GP,GR,XML,BETA] - QUENCHED!

Postby drunkmonkey on Mon Jan 24, 2011 4:46 pm

TaCktiX wrote:I'm going to lodge a complaint about misleading wording for the "Mind Blast" powerstone ability. The legend says "assaults", which I rightly interpret to mean "can conquer and advance troops to." Well no, you can't do that, it's a bombard. I likely just lost a Doubles match because of this bad terminology.


Mind Blast does assault. If yours bombarded, it's a bug.

Edit: The only doubles Monsters game I see you in is Game 8314563, and there are no bombardments in the log.
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Re: Monsters! [D,GP,GR,XML,BETA] - QUENCHED!

Postby -=- Tanarri -=- on Tue Jan 25, 2011 2:48 pm

TaCktiX wrote:I'm going to lodge a complaint about misleading wording for the "Mind Blast" powerstone ability. The legend says "assaults", which I rightly interpret to mean "can conquer and advance troops to." Well no, you can't do that, it's a bombard. I likely just lost a Doubles match because of this bad terminology.


Not sure what you mean TaCktiX... I've played a few games on this map and have only ever known Mind Blast to directly assault the runebound monsters. Perhaps you're confusing it with Lightning Blast's bombardment of powerstones and sheilds? Otherwise, I'm not sure where you're getting the bombardment from for Mind Blast.
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Re: Monsters! [D,GP,GR,XML,BETA] - Lightening Bolt Thoughts?

Postby Demen on Sat Apr 16, 2011 11:01 am

dolomite13 wrote:
MrBenn wrote:How do you feel about the update? Are you going to stick with it, or do you see further tweaks down the line?
Honestly I believe that how the map is right now is pretty darn good ... I was torn on the lightning bolts between resetting to 3 neutral and simply decaying but I am starting to believe that the decay option is better in that once you have an army there it is sort of a sentry watching all of the powerstones in a fog of war game. The possibility that someone will eliminate all your forces except the lightning bolt exists and could slow down a game but I do believe the the benefits outweigh this negative. So I would say the map is done ... I need to go enter the info for the map into the map info database thing yet =)

=D=


First post guys so forgive me if this is the wrong place or anything.

I'm playing my first game on the Monsters/Powerstones map. I've been stuck on a lightning bolt for the later half of approaching 40 rounds. I don't want to deadbeat obviously but there's nothing I can do but sit there and it's getting silly. Is there anything I can do? Did I miss something? Any advise?

It's a lesson learn't of course but I won't be rushing back :)

Thanks in advance for any help you can offer.
Enjoy your games!
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Re: Monsters! [D,GP,GR,XML,BETA] - QUENCHED!

Postby israel. on Sun Mar 25, 2012 1:06 pm

I found an error on this map. In the legend it says the shields reset to 8 every turn. This isn't true the shields only reset if a player conquers the wizard shield. I'm not sure if it's programmed wrong or written badly in the legend. Thought you would want to know.

P.s. Great map, lots of fun
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Re: Monsters! [D,GP,GR,XML,BETA] - QUENCHED!

Postby Gilligan on Sun Mar 25, 2012 1:32 pm

israel. wrote:I found an error on this map. In the legend it says the shields reset to 8 every turn. This isn't true the shields only reset if a player conquers the wizard shield. I'm not sure if it's programmed wrong or written badly in the legend. Thought you would want to know.

P.s. Great map, lots of fun


The latter, if anything. It's general that killer neutrals only happen when it's held by a player.
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Re: Monsters! [D GP GR XML BETA] - QUENCHED!

Postby Gilligan on Thu Nov 29, 2012 10:21 am

*an honored wizard
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Monsters! - REVAMP REQUEST

Postby dolomite13 on Fri Jun 14, 2013 12:02 pm

I know this map has been in play for quite a while now but I have been considering how much I really hate how lightening bolt and the spells work in general. I have been studying game design and theory quite a bit for the past few years and was thinking it may be time to to a slight revamp to this map. At least to the two spells.

Basically the dead end that lightening bolt is, is simply not fun... when your down to just that territory it becomes a grind to have to take your turn. I would rather get rid of that dead end and change it to killer. And I would like to add the ability to assault back to the powerstone that the spells are attached to so that you can reinforce out back to the powerstone, which helps a bit with mind blast but mainly helps with that dead end on lightening bolt.

They are currently

- "Mind Blast" can assault any runebound monster. Killer 3.
- "Lightning Bolt" can bombard any powerstone or shield.

I was thinking they may be better utilized like this.

- "Mind Blast" can assault any runebound monster and its powerstone.
- "Lightning Bolt" can bombard any powerstone or shield and assault its powerstone.
- Both spells are Killer 3 and reset to 3 every turn when held.

Any thoughts from the foundry folks about this possible change to gameplay?

I would also like to take a clean up pass on the graphics as I have learned a lot about photoshop since doing this map.

=D13=
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Re: Monsters! - QUENCHED! - Considering GP Revamp

Postby MoB Deadly on Fri Jun 14, 2013 12:55 pm

koontz1973 wrote:Hold 5 blue wizards for a bonus of +4.
Wizards 1,2,3,4 are together, but wizard 5 is lost in the woods and surrounded by the red wizards. So W5 region does not touch any of the other blue wizards.

Let your imagination run wild.
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Re: Monsters! - QUENCHED! - Considering GP Revamp

Postby dolomite13 on Fri Jun 14, 2013 1:25 pm

MoB Deadly wrote:
koontz1973 wrote:Hold 5 blue wizards for a bonus of +4.
Wizards 1,2,3,4 are together, but wizard 5 is lost in the woods and surrounded by the red wizards. So W5 region does not touch any of the other blue wizards.

Let your imagination run wild.


;)
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Re: Monsters! - QUENCHED! - Considering GP Revamp

Postby EricPhail on Fri Jun 14, 2013 1:34 pm

How about just adding a losing condition - you must hold a territory on the main map or you are defeated?
It solves your useless turns problem without making any major changes to a know and played map
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Re: Monsters! - REVAMP REQUEST

Postby Dukasaur on Fri Jun 14, 2013 2:37 pm

dolomite13 wrote:I know this map has been in play for quite a while now but I have been considering how much I really hate how lightening bolt and the spells work in general. I have been studying game design and theory quite a bit for the past few years and was thinking it may be time to to a slight revamp to this map. At least to the two spells.

Basically the dead end that lightening bolt is, is simply not fun... when your down to just that territory it becomes a grind to have to take your turn. I would rather get rid of that dead end and change it to killer. And I would like to add the ability to assault back to the powerstone that the spells are attached to so that you can reinforce out back to the powerstone, which helps a bit with mind blast but mainly helps with that dead end on lightening bolt.

They are currently

- "Mind Blast" can assault any runebound monster. Killer 3.
- "Lightning Bolt" can bombard any powerstone or shield.

I was thinking they may be better utilized like this.

- "Mind Blast" can assault any runebound monster and its powerstone.
- "Lightning Bolt" can bombard any powerstone or shield and assault its powerstone.
- Both spells are Killer 3 and reset to 3 every turn when held.

Any thoughts from the foundry folks about this possible change to gameplay?

I would also like to take a clean up pass on the graphics as I have learned a lot about photoshop since doing this map.

=D13=

I actually like how the spells work now.

I would definitely not like them both to reset to neutral. Keeping a lightning bolt as an oracle in a foggy game is one of my favourite strategies.

A graphics revamp for it is a nice idea, but please don't change the game play. It's brilliant just the way it is!
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Re: Monsters! - QUENCHED! - Considering GP Revamp

Postby chapcrap on Fri Jun 14, 2013 3:28 pm

I agree with Dukasaur.

The bolt should not reset. As for the proposed attacking changes, having the Mind Blast attack it's own powerstone is pointless if it resets and I'm fine with having the Lightning Bolt attack it's own powerstone, but that is also pointless if it resets.
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Re: Monsters! - REVAMP REQUEST

Postby dolomite13 on Fri Jun 14, 2013 3:31 pm

EricPhail wrote:How about just adding a losing condition - you must hold a territory on the main map or you are defeated?
It solves your useless turns problem without making any major changes to a know and played map


Oooo that might be the way to go...

Dukasaur wrote:I actually like how the spells work now.
I would definitely not like them both to reset to neutral. Keeping a lightning bolt as an oracle in a foggy game is one of my favourite strategies.
A graphics revamp for it is a nice idea, but please don't change the game play. It's brilliant just the way it is!


My main concern was getting stuck on the lightening bolt and having to play your turns out ... Eric's comment above would solve the problem as I see it and not change the overall strategy at all.

I would love to add "must hold a monster or wizard or you are eliminated" to the game and clean up the graphics a bit if it's OK with the foundry forman.

=D13=
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Re: Monsters! - REVAMP REQUEST

Postby -=- Tanarri -=- on Fri Jun 14, 2013 6:39 pm

dolomite13 wrote:
EricPhail wrote:How about just adding a losing condition - you must hold a territory on the main map or you are defeated?
It solves your useless turns problem without making any major changes to a know and played map


Oooo that might be the way to go...

Dukasaur wrote:I actually like how the spells work now.
I would definitely not like them both to reset to neutral. Keeping a lightning bolt as an oracle in a foggy game is one of my favourite strategies.
A graphics revamp for it is a nice idea, but please don't change the game play. It's brilliant just the way it is!


My main concern was getting stuck on the lightening bolt and having to play your turns out ... Eric's comment above would solve the problem as I see it and not change the overall strategy at all.

I would love to add "must hold a monster or wizard or you are eliminated" to the game and clean up the graphics a bit if it's OK with the foundry forman.

=D13=


I like the idea of both adding the losing condition and the graphics update. I've been in games in the past where I've been stuck on Lightning Bolt and it's definitely not fun, especially since you're seen as not being a threat and are usually left there for turns while the player killing everyone else takes care of cleaning up the rest of the map.
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Re: Monsters! - QUENCHED! - Considering GP Revamp

Postby codierose on Fri Jun 14, 2013 7:00 pm

just one question is the map broke
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