Austerlitz Map [Quenched]

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Re: AUSTERLITZ v03 22mar2009

Postby tlane on Wed Mar 25, 2009 8:51 am

I dont know if anyone has said this, but could you make the text on the top at least one size bigger
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Re: AUSTERLITZ v03 22mar2009

Postby pamoa on Wed Mar 25, 2009 10:30 am

MrBenn wrote:Consider adding some colour to the legend (ie red/green/blue) to distinguish the different armies.

I'll try but I'm not a big fan of Christmas tree legend box...

tlane wrote:I dont know if anyone has said this, but could you make the text on the top at least one size bigger

if I make it bigger it would too long and would need to add more lines which is impossible
but if you consider this is the small map (there will be a bigger one) and this id only contextual informations that are not vital for gameplay
I think I can leave it as it is
but thanks for asking
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Re: AUSTERLITZ v03 22mar2009

Postby TaCktiX on Wed Mar 25, 2009 10:48 am

It's an intriguing map, certainly, but I think it needs a change in perspective. Right now, a lot of the text required to understand the bonus structure on the maps (the flanks) are written in small type sideways. I literally craned my neck to make sure I could read it properly. I would suggest that you rotate the entire map 90 degrees to the right. Here's what would change:

- Austerlitz is now on the bottom middle.
- The flank markers are now along the top and bottom of the fronts, so you can adjust the font to be slightly larger (a requirement even if you don't rotate the map) and readable straight across
- The title graphic will likely need to go to the top right, with the introductory text along the top middle (more space available there, be mindful of the French Right Flank)
- All sprite graphics and associated text will need to be rotated
- Bonus text to the bottom left
- Add a compass rose noting North if you desire

That looks like all that needs to be addressed on that front, no pun intended. If you've layered it out well it should be easy to do and it'll make the map much easier to read.

Does a very involved suggestion count? I think so, Napoleon's battle just got
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Re: AUSTERLITZ v03 22mar2009

Postby RjBeals on Wed Mar 25, 2009 11:46 am

Click image to enlarge.
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First off, I've been meaning to comment in this thread simply because this map is awesome. You really did a great job of creating a truly unique map - with amazing visuals. You've got quite a nice design style.

I'm a simple guy - and complicated gameplay usually does me in. This sort of overwhelms me. Sorry. I wonder if you could space out the players a bit more to make the attack routes a little clearer? You've got a lot of extra playing space on the map.

"Holding the 3 villages" took me a while to figure out. The villages are in silver? So they will start neutral? See all those other villages around the right of the screen? They have brown attack lines leading to and from them, so I thought those were going to be villages in play. Maybe make a pixel village icon to match the army icons so the villages stand out more.

Well - I don't have much time, so thats all i have for now. Beautiful map though - nice work.
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Re: AUSTERLITZ v03 22mar2009

Postby sailorseal on Wed Mar 25, 2009 12:37 pm

All I would suggest is clarifying it up a little, increasing the size of the text and maybe adding more territories.
Great Map! :D
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Re: AUSTERLITZ v03 22mar2009

Postby ustus on Wed Mar 25, 2009 1:40 pm

pamoa wrote:
MrBenn wrote:Consider adding some colour to the legend (ie red/green/blue) to distinguish the different armies.

I'll try but I'm not a big fan of Christmas tree legend box...

tlane wrote:I dont know if anyone has said this, but could you make the text on the top at least one size bigger

if I make it bigger it would too long and would need to add more lines which is impossible
but if you consider this is the small map (there will be a bigger one) and this id only contextual informations that are not vital for gameplay
I think I can leave it as it is
but thanks for asking


If you're using Photoshop, you could rasterize (CS) or simplify (elements) the text layer so that you can scale it and only increase the size in directions where there's actually room. This may have the same effect as increasing the font size without requiring you to wrap to the next layer. You could also then make sure there is no extra space on the sides, though it will probably not have too much effect there. You do have some extra room to the left of the type to fill, so maybe you can pull off the difference this way.

On the other hand, there isn't much space to move it into, so this might not work. good luck.

I'll not comment further, as I know photoshop a lot better than cartography, and even for what little i do know, I don't play scenario maps. just my preference. Graphically, this looks nice. I like the way it looks like a battle plan.
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Re: AUSTERLITZ v03 22mar2009

Postby MrBenn on Wed Mar 25, 2009 8:30 pm

ustus wrote:If you're using Photoshop, you could rasterize (CS) or simplify (elements) the text layer so that you can scale it and only increase the size in directions where there's actually room. This may have the same effect as increasing the font size without requiring you to wrap to the next layer.

You should never rasterize your text layers, unless you're adding filters to them - even then I suggest creating a copy of them first.

You should be able to resize (transform) the text to fill the gap... You could also look to abridge the text and cut some of it out?
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Re: AUSTERLITZ v03 22mar2009

Postby pamoa on Thu Mar 26, 2009 2:42 am

TaCktiX wrote:... I would suggest that you rotate the entire map 90 degrees to the right... (clockwise)

very interesting solution, I like the way you changed the point of view (literally and metaphorically)
I have one problem with it it is about divisions symbols, now they are facing
but if I turn the map they will be one atop of each other and I will loose the graphic confrontation
I really remain uncertain about your proposition as I also like the way it solve some other problems...


RjBeals wrote:... I wonder if you could space out the players a bit more to make the attack routes a little clearer? You've got a lot of extra playing space on the map.

"Holding the 3 villages" took me a while to figure out. The villages are in silver? So they will start neutral? See all those other villages around the right of the screen? They have brown attack lines leading to and from them, so I thought those were going to be villages in play. Maybe make a pixel village icon to match the army icons so the villages stand out more...

I'll work on the attack route to make clear which are and which not

for the villages, I already tried to put some symbol but didn't any convincing, any suggestions
the other villages can not be in the game as they don't have any army count on it
and they are not starting neutral as they are part of the 32 starting positions
only leaders are starting neutral as you can see on the map


sailorseal wrote:All I would suggest is clarifying it up a little, increasing the size of the text and maybe adding more territories.

clarifying in what way ?!?
for the size of the context explanation text remember this is small map and i do not have more room for it
the number of territory issue as already been adressed


ustus wrote:...the text layer so that you can scale it and only increase the size in directions where there's actually room... On the other hand, there isn't much space to move it into, so this might not work...

see above
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Re: AUSTERLITZ v03 22mar2009

Postby ustus on Thu Mar 26, 2009 1:11 pm

ok, sorry for my bad advice then. I didn't know you could resize text with a transformation without rasterizing. And i would certainly have suggested copying first, that's kind of a given.
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Re: AUSTERLITZ v03 22mar2009

Postby tlane on Thu Mar 26, 2009 10:36 pm

pamoa wrote:for the villages, I already tried to put some symbol but didn't any convincing, any suggestions

One idea would be to put a big 'V', like the 'N' you have on Napoleon. I don't know how this would look, but it is one idea i have.

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Re: AUSTERLITZ v03 22mar2009

Postby captainwalrus on Sun Mar 29, 2009 7:45 pm

I like the bonus labels, It makes it a lot more clear. I don't have any suggestion really, just showing support for the map. ;)
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Re: AUSTERLITZ v04 1apr2009

Postby pamoa on Wed Apr 01, 2009 8:00 am

v04 new features: villages icons, clearer attack route, flank colour differentiation
This is the small map 600x630 pixels
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Re: AUSTERLITZ v04 1apr2009

Postby captainwalrus on Fri Apr 03, 2009 8:05 pm

I don't know that much about the battle but from what I have read the Pratzen Heights seemed to be an essential part to the final victory, so I think you should add holding Pratzen to the victory condition.





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Re: AUSTERLITZ v04 1apr2009

Postby rjz115dude on Fri Apr 10, 2009 8:05 pm

good idea for a map, but it just seems too plain, one colored and boring...try adding more color and your own texture to make it your own map, Your original idea
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Re: AUSTERLITZ v04 1apr2009

Postby gho on Sun Apr 12, 2009 11:13 am

I disagree about this map being boring, it is one of the best maps in production. What's the story with the light and dark red? you definately need some colour in the ledgend to make the map look less confusing.
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Re: AUSTERLITZ v04 1apr2009

Postby grayhawke on Sun Apr 12, 2009 12:26 pm

captainwalrus wrote:I don't know that much about the battle but from what I have read the Pratzen Heights seemed to be an essential part to the final victory, so I think you should add holding Pratzen to the victory condition.
~ Mr. walrus

I agree as the Pratzen Plateau was certainly crucial to victory. Also adding the village to the victory condition makes it 18 territs out of 35, a proportion that appeals to my sense of fairness. ;)

I also think the map does not need any more colours or textures. Its beauty is in its simplicity, a simplicity which pamoa wields so well and which is in itself a telltale sign of pamoa's maps.
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Re: AUSTERLITZ v04 1apr2009

Postby MrBenn on Sun Apr 12, 2009 4:05 pm

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Welcome to the Foundry Proper!

Onward and upwards =D>
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Re: AUSTERLITZ v04 1apr2009

Postby sailorseal on Sun Apr 12, 2009 4:09 pm

MrBenn wrote:Image
Welcome to the Foundry Proper!

Onward and upwards =D>

Congratulations and welcome!
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Re: AUSTERLITZ [D] v04 1apr2009

Postby pamoa on Tue Apr 14, 2009 8:25 am

captainwalrus wrote:I don't know that much about the battle but from what I have read the Pratzen Heights seemed to be an essential part to the final victory, so I think you should add holding Pratzen to the victory condition.

grayhawke wrote:I agree as the Pratzen Plateau was certainly crucial to victory. Also adding the village to the victory condition makes it 18 territs out of 35, a proportion that appeals to my sense of fairness.

I agree, Pratzen will be in victory conditions in next version

rjz115dude wrote:good idea for a map, but it just seems too plain, one coloured and boring...try adding more colour and your own texture to make it your own map, Your original idea

gho wrote:I disagree about this map being boring, it is one of the best maps in production...

grayhawke wrote:I also think the map does not need any more colours or textures. Its beauty is in its simplicity, a simplicity which pamoa wields so well and which is in itself a tell-tale sign of pamoa's maps.

rjz115dude maybe you can first try to make some map yourself before saying such huge stupid thing like I want another map... btw did you see anyone who make a map like this one ?!? and thanks guys for the support

gho wrote:What's the story with the light and dark red? you definitely need some colour in the legend to make the map look less confusing.

    grayhawke page 3 wrote:I still think north/south flanks are less confusing than allied/french-right/left flanks. I'm also not entirely convinced that the division-braces are the best visual device. Perhaps use 2 shades of blue, green and red to differentiate the centre from the flanks? or use a background colour to the text for names of the central territs?
I did try to differentiate flank with a different shade of colour as grayhawke suggested but I also didn't find them very convincing
and sorry but colour in the legend is not needed to understand the map if you can read blue green and red I'm sure you can understand they are colour on the map
besides I try to avoid funky legend they are unreadable but thanks for your concern
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Re: AUSTERLITZ [D] v04 1apr2009

Postby grayhawke on Tue Apr 14, 2009 9:16 am

pamoa wrote:...
gho wrote:What's the story with the light and dark red? you definitely need some colour in the legend to make the map look less confusing.

    grayhawke page 3 wrote:I still think north/south flanks are less confusing than allied/french-right/left flanks. I'm also not entirely convinced that the division-braces are the best visual device. Perhaps use 2 shades of blue, green and red to differentiate the centre from the flanks? or use a background colour to the text for names of the central territs?
I did try to differentiate flank with a different shade of colour as grayhawke suggested but I also didn't find them very convincing ...
Yes, my suggestion didn't really work. :(
Would it help if the text on the division-braces ran from top to bottom? I think it might then be more easily understood without the need for rotating the map itself.
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Re: AUSTERLITZ [D] v04 1apr2009

Postby gho on Tue Apr 14, 2009 8:20 pm

Maybe instead of colouring the whole map you could add little red, green and blue squares next to the text, or colour just the words 'blue', 'green', and 'red'.
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Re: AUSTERLITZ [D] v05 17apr2009

Postby pamoa on Fri Apr 17, 2009 10:56 am

v04 new features: pratzen in victory conditions, colour dots in legend
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Re: AUSTERLITZ [D] v05 17apr2009

Postby iancanton on Mon Apr 20, 2009 1:56 pm

two spelling mistakes: in the legend, we have center, while the map uses centre; in the map, lichtenstein ought to be liechtenstein.

http://www.histwar.fr/recits-historique ... rlitz.html

ian. :)
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Re: AUSTERLITZ [D] v05 17apr2009

Postby pamoa on Tue Apr 21, 2009 2:35 am

oops you're right :oops: corrected
Last edited by pamoa on Wed May 27, 2009 1:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: AUSTERLITZ [D] v05 17apr2009

Postby iancanton on Thu Apr 23, 2009 4:37 pm

that's better! this map is proving to be educational, in more ways than one!

the bonuses for the generals and villages are a bit small. increase them to +2 autodeploy for napoleon and +2 (or even +3) for alexandre & liechtenstein to provide an incentive to attack the neutrals.

holding the villages will be difficult. they can be attacked by so many divisions that the bonus needs to be at least +3, otherwise the village bonus will be ignored most of the time in games of more than 2 players, when it's normally better to keep ur troops together.

in fact, the cavalry attacks are causing every bonusto be too low just now (except the french right flank, which cannot be attacked by any distant cavalry), meaning that the best strategy in 1v1 is simply to attack the enemy and ignore the bonuses most of the time!

code both of the 3-region bonus zones (villages and french left flank) as start positions, so that players cannot start with these bonuses in 2-player and 3-player games.

ian. :)
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