Austerlitz Map [Quenched]

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Re: AUSTERLITZ v04 1apr2009

Postby grayhawke on Sun Apr 12, 2009 12:26 pm

captainwalrus wrote:I don't know that much about the battle but from what I have read the Pratzen Heights seemed to be an essential part to the final victory, so I think you should add holding Pratzen to the victory condition.
~ Mr. walrus

I agree as the Pratzen Plateau was certainly crucial to victory. Also adding the village to the victory condition makes it 18 territs out of 35, a proportion that appeals to my sense of fairness. ;)

I also think the map does not need any more colours or textures. Its beauty is in its simplicity, a simplicity which pamoa wields so well and which is in itself a telltale sign of pamoa's maps.
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Re: AUSTERLITZ v04 1apr2009

Postby MrBenn on Sun Apr 12, 2009 4:05 pm

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Welcome to the Foundry Proper!

Onward and upwards =D>
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Re: AUSTERLITZ v04 1apr2009

Postby sailorseal on Sun Apr 12, 2009 4:09 pm

MrBenn wrote:Image
Welcome to the Foundry Proper!

Onward and upwards =D>

Congratulations and welcome!
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Re: AUSTERLITZ [D] v04 1apr2009

Postby pamoa on Tue Apr 14, 2009 8:25 am

captainwalrus wrote:I don't know that much about the battle but from what I have read the Pratzen Heights seemed to be an essential part to the final victory, so I think you should add holding Pratzen to the victory condition.

grayhawke wrote:I agree as the Pratzen Plateau was certainly crucial to victory. Also adding the village to the victory condition makes it 18 territs out of 35, a proportion that appeals to my sense of fairness.

I agree, Pratzen will be in victory conditions in next version

rjz115dude wrote:good idea for a map, but it just seems too plain, one coloured and boring...try adding more colour and your own texture to make it your own map, Your original idea

gho wrote:I disagree about this map being boring, it is one of the best maps in production...

grayhawke wrote:I also think the map does not need any more colours or textures. Its beauty is in its simplicity, a simplicity which pamoa wields so well and which is in itself a tell-tale sign of pamoa's maps.

rjz115dude maybe you can first try to make some map yourself before saying such huge stupid thing like I want another map... btw did you see anyone who make a map like this one ?!? and thanks guys for the support

gho wrote:What's the story with the light and dark red? you definitely need some colour in the legend to make the map look less confusing.

    grayhawke page 3 wrote:I still think north/south flanks are less confusing than allied/french-right/left flanks. I'm also not entirely convinced that the division-braces are the best visual device. Perhaps use 2 shades of blue, green and red to differentiate the centre from the flanks? or use a background colour to the text for names of the central territs?
I did try to differentiate flank with a different shade of colour as grayhawke suggested but I also didn't find them very convincing
and sorry but colour in the legend is not needed to understand the map if you can read blue green and red I'm sure you can understand they are colour on the map
besides I try to avoid funky legend they are unreadable but thanks for your concern
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Re: AUSTERLITZ [D] v04 1apr2009

Postby grayhawke on Tue Apr 14, 2009 9:16 am

pamoa wrote:...
gho wrote:What's the story with the light and dark red? you definitely need some colour in the legend to make the map look less confusing.

    grayhawke page 3 wrote:I still think north/south flanks are less confusing than allied/french-right/left flanks. I'm also not entirely convinced that the division-braces are the best visual device. Perhaps use 2 shades of blue, green and red to differentiate the centre from the flanks? or use a background colour to the text for names of the central territs?
I did try to differentiate flank with a different shade of colour as grayhawke suggested but I also didn't find them very convincing ...
Yes, my suggestion didn't really work. :(
Would it help if the text on the division-braces ran from top to bottom? I think it might then be more easily understood without the need for rotating the map itself.
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Re: AUSTERLITZ [D] v04 1apr2009

Postby gho on Tue Apr 14, 2009 8:20 pm

Maybe instead of colouring the whole map you could add little red, green and blue squares next to the text, or colour just the words 'blue', 'green', and 'red'.
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Re: AUSTERLITZ [D] v05 17apr2009

Postby pamoa on Fri Apr 17, 2009 10:56 am

v04 new features: pratzen in victory conditions, colour dots in legend
This is the small map 600x630 pixels
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Re: AUSTERLITZ [D] v05 17apr2009

Postby iancanton on Mon Apr 20, 2009 1:56 pm

two spelling mistakes: in the legend, we have center, while the map uses centre; in the map, lichtenstein ought to be liechtenstein.

http://www.histwar.fr/recits-historique ... rlitz.html

ian. :)
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Re: AUSTERLITZ [D] v05 17apr2009

Postby pamoa on Tue Apr 21, 2009 2:35 am

oops you're right :oops: corrected
Last edited by pamoa on Wed May 27, 2009 1:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: AUSTERLITZ [D] v05 17apr2009

Postby iancanton on Thu Apr 23, 2009 4:37 pm

that's better! this map is proving to be educational, in more ways than one!

the bonuses for the generals and villages are a bit small. increase them to +2 autodeploy for napoleon and +2 (or even +3) for alexandre & liechtenstein to provide an incentive to attack the neutrals.

holding the villages will be difficult. they can be attacked by so many divisions that the bonus needs to be at least +3, otherwise the village bonus will be ignored most of the time in games of more than 2 players, when it's normally better to keep ur troops together.

in fact, the cavalry attacks are causing every bonusto be too low just now (except the french right flank, which cannot be attacked by any distant cavalry), meaning that the best strategy in 1v1 is simply to attack the enemy and ignore the bonuses most of the time!

code both of the 3-region bonus zones (villages and french left flank) as start positions, so that players cannot start with these bonuses in 2-player and 3-player games.

ian. :)
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Re: AUSTERLITZ [D] v05 17apr2009

Postby pamoa on Fri Apr 24, 2009 7:49 am

I recalculated the bonuses for villages with the oaktown standard sheet
STANDARD
+1 napoléon
+2 french left
+9 french centre
+3 french right

+2 alexander & liechtenstein
+3 allied right
+5 allied centre
+3 allied left

+3 villages


I agree with you bonus would be very hard to hold, is below what you suggested
REINFORCED
+2 napoléon
+3 french left
+13 french centre
+4 french right

+3 alexander & liechtenstein
+4 allied right
+6 allied centre
+4 allied left

+4 villages

iancanton wrote:code both of the 3-region bonus zones (villages and french left flank) as start positions, so that players cannot start with these bonuses in 2-player and 3-player games.

I'll do that

iancanton wrote:...this map is proving to be educational, in more ways than one!

I appreciate you like the complex but compact gameplay I'm proposing
Last edited by pamoa on Mon Apr 27, 2009 3:10 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: AUSTERLITZ [D] v05 17apr2009

Postby sailorseal on Sun Apr 26, 2009 12:36 pm

I would like to see the legend color coded for ease of use. This map looks like it will become another complicated map, like Waterloo, that will be very popular. I would take the brightness down on the colors of each symbol just to stick with the overall feel of the map. I also see assault routes that go no where and they confuse me!
I like the map!
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Re: AUSTERLITZ [D] v05 17apr2009

Postby iancanton on Mon Apr 27, 2009 3:19 pm

pamoa wrote:I agree with you bonus would be very hard to hold, is below what you suggested
REINFORCED
+2 napoléon
+3 french left
+13 french centre
+4 french right

i was happy with all of ur REINFORCED bonuses before u edited the french centre to +13! this is because the french centre bonus zone includes napoléon, so the total bonus for holding it is +13 normal with additional +2 autodeploy, which is a bit too much because this will surely result in victory, making a win by objective extremely unlikely. +9 or +10 normal with additional +2 autodeploy will still give a small chance to the other player.

except for this, the gameplay stamp is close. i know that the french centre is extremely difficult to defend, but i don't see a way of correcting this without moving several divisions out of position or changing the road layout; besides, the enemy forces in a battle are supposed to be mixed in next to each other (just like on our map), otherwise it wouldn't be a battle!

ian. :)
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Re: AUSTERLITZ [D] v05 17apr2009

Postby pamoa on Tue Apr 28, 2009 12:42 am

what about french centre at +9 better for graphical reasons :oops:
REINFORCED
+2 napoléon
+3 french left
+9 french centre
+4 french right

+3 alexander & liechtenstein
+4 allied right
+6 allied centre
+4 allied left

+4 villages

iancanton wrote:code both of the 3-region bonus zones (villages and french left flank) as start positions, so that players cannot start with these bonuses in 2-player and 3-player games.

here is my proposition, I coded 4 position in each "sector" I added D'HAutpoul and Von Essen to the two upper ones
Code: Select all
<positions>
   <position>
      <territory>Suchet</territory>
      <territory>Walther</territory>
      <territory>Margaron</territory>
      <territory>Engelhardt</territory>
      <territory>Kologrivov</territory>
      <territory>Prebyshevsky</territory>
   </position>

   <position>
      <territory>Kellerman</territory>
      <territory>Nansouty</territory>
      <territory>Legrand</territory>
      <territory>Voropaitski</territory>
      <territory>Maliutin</territory>
      <territory>Langeron</territory>
   </position>

   <position>
      <territory>Caffarelli</territory>
      <territory>Vandamme</territory>
      <territory>Bourcier</territory>
      <territory>Hohenloe</territory>
      <territory>Miloradovich</territory>
      <territory>Dokturov</territory>
   </position>

   <position>
      <territory>D'Hautpoul</territory>
      <territory>Saint Hilaire</territory>
      <territory>Friant</territory>
      <territory>Von Essen</territory>
      <territory>Kolowrat</territory>
      <territory>Kienmayer</territory>
   </position>
</positions>
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Re: AUSTERLITZ [D] v05 17apr2009

Postby iancanton on Tue May 05, 2009 3:58 pm

u need only 3 sets of starting positions; to make sense, each set must include one village and one french left flank division.

ian. :)
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Re: AUSTERLITZ [D] v05 17apr2009

Postby pamoa on Thu May 07, 2009 2:17 am

iancanton wrote:u need only 3 sets of starting positions; to make sense, each set must include one village and one french left flank division.

If you say so
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Re: AUSTERLITZ [D] v05 17apr2009

Postby Incandenza on Sun May 17, 2009 7:58 pm

Hey pamoa, I'm looking in on this for ian. The thing he wanted me to make sure of is what you guys have just been talking about:

pamoa wrote:
iancanton wrote:u need only 3 sets of starting positions; to make sense, each set must include one village and one french left flank division.

If you say so


If you're good with that, then I believe this is ready for gameplay stampin'.
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Re: AUSTERLITZ [D] v05 17apr2009

Postby pamoa on Mon May 18, 2009 2:43 am

I'll code it as following

Code: Select all
<positions>
   <position>
      <territory>Suchet</territory>
      <territory>Pratzen</territory>
   </position>

   <position>
      <territory>Kellerman</territory>
      <territory>Skolnitz</territory>
   </position>

   <position>
      <territory>Caffarelli</territory>
      <territory>Telnitz</territory>
   </position>
</positions>
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Re: AUSTERLITZ [D] v05 17apr2009

Postby Incandenza on Mon May 18, 2009 9:43 pm

Well, someone who knows xml better than I do should probably look that over... that being said, here ya go:

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Re: AUSTERLITZ [D,Gp] v05 17apr2009

Postby captainwalrus on Tue May 19, 2009 6:24 pm

Yay! I like this a lot, but I am at a loss for what to advise. From the begining I thought it was really good and I can't wait to see it keep going.
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Re: AUSTERLITZ [D,Gp] v05 17apr2009

Postby pamoa on Wed May 20, 2009 2:50 am

thanks for the stamp Incandenza
thanks for the support captainwalrus
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Re: AUSTERLITZ [D,Gp] v05 17apr2009

Postby MrBenn on Wed May 20, 2009 10:07 am

Congratulations on the stamp pamoa! Is the version of the map you posted on Apr 17th the most recent? It's looking pretty good to be honest... Do you have an update to post, or are you pretty much settled?
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Re: AUSTERLITZ [D,Gp] v05 17apr2009

Postby pamoa on Thu May 21, 2009 11:44 am

tx
graphically I'm ready
I only have to make the large version which should be posted in a week
the xml is also ready missing only the large map coordinates
Last edited by pamoa on Wed May 27, 2009 1:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: AUSTERLITZ [D,Gp] v05 17apr2009

Postby the.killing.44 on Thu May 21, 2009 11:47 am

Did you consider stroking the paths with a 1px black (possibly low-ish opacity) stroke? It might just improve the clarity.

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Re: AUSTERLITZ [D,Gp] v05 17apr2009

Postby pamoa on Thu May 21, 2009 11:55 am

the.killing.44 wrote:Did you consider stroking the paths with a 1px black (possibly low-ish opacity) stroke? It might just improve the clarity.

yes I thought some solution like this but did decide to reserve it for the main road which didn't enter in gameplay
and keep a single line for the path which are attack route 2px wide and unused path 1px wide
the colour I choose is to blend in the map bg so as not to have a drawing for gameplay glued on a faded inutile bg
if you really think it is difficult to figure out the attack line I can try a darker shade (or maybe just you should increase your monitor contrast :lol: ;) )
Last edited by pamoa on Wed May 27, 2009 1:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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