Conquer Club

cairnswk wrote:

cairnswk wrote:...
FOR DISUSSION....there is a possible further link to Julius Caesar from outside attack....if we bring Cleopatra into the picture.....that would create a link through marriage between Mark Antony <-> Cleopatra <-> Julius Caesar and don't forget there was a son to Cleopatra and Julis Caesar -> Caesarion.
Would this be feasible?

Is this a good idea?

This is how this might look...i can't think of any other way of showing it to connect Mark antony and Cleopatra and Julius Caesar
I have ghosted it red blood because the marriage of Caesar and Cleopatra was partially to blame to for his downfall, and was not in the roman tradition I believe.
I does create the connection however.

yeti_c wrote:....
PS - forgot to mention - one of you bombardment figs is the wrong colour.
PPS - "wife" is spelt "wifw" in the legend.
C.

Fixed.

Mmmm. the poll is not looking good for continuing this map.
Some people just don't like a challenge or perhaps can't think outside the box.

I feel really about this map right now. I think it has a lot of potential, but I find the current layout very opaque and hard to grasp, much like Forbidden City. I know this isn't a very useful suggestion, since I don't know how to make it better, but

ZeakCytho wrote:I feel really about this map right now. I think it has a lot of potential, but I find the current layout very opaque and hard to grasp, much like Forbidden City. I know this isn't a very useful suggestion, since I don't know how to make it better, but

Gees Zeak....surely you can follow some lines and make some family associations
what don't you understand?

cairnswk wrote:

ZeakCytho wrote:I feel really about this map right now. I think it has a lot of potential, but I find the current layout very opaque and hard to grasp, much like Forbidden City. I know this isn't a very useful suggestion, since I don't know how to make it better, but

Gees Zeak....surely you can follow some lines and make some family associations
what don't you understand?

I feel like if I were actually playing a game on this map, I would be overwhelmed by the number of bonus combinations.

ZeakCytho wrote:

cairnswk wrote:

ZeakCytho wrote:I feel really about this map right now. I think it has a lot of potential, but I find the current layout very opaque and hard to grasp, much like Forbidden City. I know this isn't a very useful suggestion, since I don't know how to make it better, but

Gees Zeak....surely you can follow some lines and make some family associations
what don't you understand?

I feel like if I were actually playing a game on this map, I would be overwhelmed by the number of bonus combinations.

Ah...so this is outside the box for you. while it may seems difficult, it really is no more than lots of small continents with a couple of big ones thrown in for good measure.

In all fairness, cairns, there's a fine line between complex and confusing, and in places this map seems to drift over the line. The name thing is going to be a big issue, with so many repetitions and so many similar-sounding names. I ask again, have you considered just fictionalizing the people that no one's ever heard of?

I think the Cleopatra/adoption line thing is a good idea, otherwise Emperor Caesar is one big honkin' choke point.

For how powerful of a terit it is, Julia Livilla is awfully hard to get to. Maybe the Gods could show disfavor to her and Livia by being able to smite them with thunderbolts (i.e. bombard)?

"Agrippina - Germanicus" & "Drusus - Antonia" have 2 pixels seperating the connections - I think this looks better/less confusing than the 1 pixel versions you have for "Gaius Julius Ceaser - Marica (ex regii)" & "Marcus V Agrippa - Julia The Elder"

Can you standardise these?

Incandenza wrote:I think the Cleopatra/adoption line thing is a good idea, otherwise Emperor Caesar is one big honkin' choke point.

For how powerful of a terit it is, Julia Livilla is awfully hard to get to. Maybe the Gods could show disfavor to her and Livia by being able to smite them with thunderbolts (i.e. bombard)?

Definitely agree with these points.

Not sure about the fictionalisation - but agree that as it stands - we need to make much greater differentiation.

This maps connections are far easier to read than "Forbidden City".

C.

Incandenza wrote:In all fairness, cairns, there's a fine line between complex and confusing, and in places this map seems to drift over the line. The name thing is going to be a big issue, with so many repetitions and so many similar-sounding names. I ask again, have you considered just fictionalizing the people that no one's ever heard of?

I think the Cleopatra/adoption line thing is a good idea, otherwise Emperor Caesar is one big honkin' choke point.

For how powerful of a terit it is, Julia Livilla is awfully hard to get to. Maybe the Gods could show disfavor to her and Livia by being able to smite them with thunderbolts (i.e. bombard)?

1. In all fairness incandenza, i had never heard of Kamchatka until I played Risk in 1974.
That was a learning curve for me...grantedly geographic, but still i had to familiarise myself with it.
This is no different as to names, and yes there a learning curve to nearly all my maps which people don't like.
I will not denegrate the names of the families of this history for the sake of people who don't want to learn or are too lazy to make some differentation, which i am doin g solmething about sorting out.

2. in the mini-series I Claudius, Livia Drusilla was made a God by Claudius.
I will research that further, it seems that Livia is more powerful.
Maybe we just need to change the "kills" to bombards.

3. Cleopatra also i like that connection, although after watching the Series ROME, i think there might be other possibilities.

Okay, I'm willing to table the conversation about the names until you've had a chance to sort them out.

But for the record, your use of Kamchatka as analogy is sorely flawed. Classic depicts the world, your map depicts some important people and some tremendously unimportant people who've been dead for two thousand years (and it's only the repetitive unimportant people that I really have concerns about). Also, it's not like there's five terits called "Kamchatka" where I have to puzzle out which is which in the dropdown. Form follows function. Just sayin'.

Also for the record, I'd also never heard of kamchatka until I played Risk as a wee lad. Even better, some years ago I got a chance to go there. Unbelievably bitchin' place.

Oh, and this doesn't strike me as a map where lots of people are going to swing by and post cogent analyses, but don't let that dissuade you.

Incandenza wrote:Oh, and this doesn't strike me as a map where lots of people are going to swing by and post cogent analyses, but don't let that dissuade you.

Yep - might just be us 3 in for the long haul!

C.

PS - Cairns - did you see my post after Inc's?

yeti_c wrote:Yep - might just be us 3 in for the long haul!
C.
PS - Cairns - did you see my post after Inc's?

C...yes i did...i'll answer it shortly....i've been very much under the weather this last week...summer has started here...35 degrees C with 75% humidity, no thunder storms that cool the place down yet, but rather thick heavy clouds that float overhead keeping all the heat in....it's sheer murder and certainly not conducive to mapping Alas.

Incandenza wrote:Oh, and this doesn't strike me as a map where lots of people are going to swing by and post cogent analyses, but don't let that dissuade you.

incandenza..i'm sorry if i came over a lilttle assertive in my latest answer, but i think the names are very important to history, and yes we can maybe adapt them to their real or other names as some might be known as, but if we go fictionalising it too much it will loose all it's flavour.

Incandenza wrote:Okay, I'm willing to table the conversation about the names until you've had a chance to sort them out.

Thank you.

But for the record, your use of Kamchatka as analogy is sorely flawed. Classic depicts the world, your map depicts some important people and some tremendously unimportant people who've been dead for two thousand years (and it's only the repetitive unimportant people that I really have concerns about). Also, it's not like there's five terits called "Kamchatka" where I have to puzzle out which is which in the dropdown. Form follows function. Just sayin'.

Also for the record, I'd also never heard of kamchatka until I played Risk as a wee lad. Even better, some years ago I got a chance to go there. Unbelievably bitchin' place.

Oh, and this doesn't strike me as a map where lots of people are going to swing by and post cogent analyses, but don't let that dissuade you.

Yes i know, but Kamchatcha worked for me..i was writing that bit.
Please let me see what i can work with the names to retain the history.

yeti_c wrote:"Agrippina - Germanicus" & "Drusus - Antonia" have 2 pixels seperating the connections - I think this looks better/less confusing than the 1 pixel versions you have for "Gaius Julius Ceaser - Marica (ex regii)" & "Marcus V Agrippa - Julia The Elder"

Can you standardise these?

Yes, i want to open this map up a bit more so connections are not sitting atop each other.

Yeti_C wrote:

Incandenza wrote:I think the Cleopatra/adoption line thing is a good idea, otherwise Emperor Caesar is one big honkin' choke point.

For how powerful of a terit it is, Julia Livilla is awfully hard to get to. Maybe the Gods could show disfavor to her and Livia by being able to smite them with thunderbolts (i.e. bombard)?

Definitely agree with these points.

Not sure about the fictionalisation - but agree that as it stands - we need to make much greater differentiation.

This maps connections are far easier to read than "Forbidden City".

C.

I agree on this, but then this is not Chinese in style and some of that artwork is incredibly complicated in design to achieve the flavour.

Why is Julius Ceaser a "Dictator" and not an "Emperor"?

C.

yeti_c wrote:Why is Julius Ceaser a "Dictator" and not an "Emperor"?

C.

Because he was a Dictator, not an Emperor.

InkL0sed wrote:

yeti_c wrote:Why is Julius Ceaser a "Dictator" and not an "Emperor"?

C.

Because he was a Dictator, not an Emperor.

I thought he was still head of the "Roman Empire"? - Or did it change it's name to the "Roman Dictatorship"?

C.

yeti_c wrote:

InkL0sed wrote:

yeti_c wrote:Why is Julius Ceaser a "Dictator" and not an "Emperor"?

C.

Because he was a Dictator, not an Emperor.

I thought he was still head of the "Roman Empire"? - Or did it change it's name to the "Roman Dictatorship"?

C.

Because Julius Caesar was never declared emperor.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caesar_(title)
Wikipedia gives

Periods
Roman Kingdom
753 BC – 509 BC

Roman Republic
509 BC – 27 BC
Roman Empire
27 BC – AD 476

I have never heard of him being referred to as Emperor of ....
it's always been Dictator.

I've never heard of him referred as anything - hence an assumption that he was an "Emperor" of an "Empire"...

But wiki says he was only ever a Dictator - although note it seems he was only a Dictator for 12 days?

C.

Caesar took control of Rome militarily, but he didn't stay long in political power. When Octavian ended the civil war, he declared himself Augustus and emperor.

Caesar wasn't even Rome's first dictator. It was legal for Rome to temporarily have a dictator when the Senate deemed it necessary (the story of Cincinnatus sums up the ideal of the farmer-general who becomes dictator to combat the barbarian threat, and goes back to his farm once it's over). Caesar only broke the law by staying in power - like Sulla did not very long beforehand.

Anyway, we digress...

OK....below is a list of names I have sorted out.

Gaius Julius Caesar
Marcia (ex Regii)
Julia Caesaris
Gaius Marius
Sextus Julius Caesar
Proconsul Caesar
Aurelia Cotta
Julia Major
Dictator Julius Caesar
Calpurnia
Pompeia Sulla
Cornelia Cinna
Gnaeus Pompeus
Julia
Marcus Balbus
Cleopatra VII
Gaius Octavius
Atia Caesonia
Marcus Antonius
Octavia Minor
Claudius Marcellus
Scribonia
Emperor Agustus
Livia Drusilla
Tiberius C Nero
Julia The Elder
Marcus V Agrippa
Vipsania
Drusus
Antonia
Emperor Tiberius
Castor Drusus
Livilla
Tiberius Gemellus
Livia Helen
Agrippa Postumus
Vipsania Julia
Gaius Caesar
Lucius Caesar
Agrippina
Germanicus
Lucius C Longinus
Drusilla
Caesonia
Emperor Caligula
Julia Drusilla
Julia Livilla
Nero Caesar
Drusus Caesar
Julia Livilla
Agrippinella
Livia Helen
Emperor Claudius
Messalina
Gnaeus Abenobarbus
Britanicus
Emperor Nero
Octavia
Vulcan
Mars
Iuppiter
Iuno

I don't think that any are repeated in Version 9 below

Can we start talking bonuses for families.
i'm inclined to lower agrippina and germanicus to +3
marcus agrippa and Julia the elder to +3
what do you boys think?

I don't really have a problem with marcus agrippa/julia being +4. There's seven terits each to conquer, and all have to be defended due to various borders/figs/poisons. Agrippina/Germanicus also has 7 terits to conquer, but only 4 to defend, plus it's right next to caligula (which I presume would also have to be held for the bonus), so +3 sounds okay.

Incandenza wrote:I don't really have a problem with marcus agrippa/julia being +4. There's seven terits each to conquer, and all have to be defended due to various borders/figs/poisons. Agrippina/Germanicus also has 7 terits to conquer, but only 4 to defend, plus it's right next to caligula (which I presume would also have to be held for the bonus), so +3 sounds okay.

And i almost hate to ask, but are the names satisfactory now?

At a glance the names look substantially better, but I'll go thru with a fine-tooth comb in the very near future (I'm about to go on my lunch break, good times).

Incandenza wrote:At a glance the names look substantially better, but I'll go thru with a fine-tooth comb in the very near future (I'm about to go on my lunch break, good times).

Kewl