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Castle Lands [Quenched]

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Re: Castle Lands [D] (up. 03-15: ready for gameplay stamp?)

Postby pikkio on Thu Mar 19, 2009 2:47 pm

meanwhile i made the 8.8 version, with new flags and some new shadows.
i also changed the bridges image in the legend, cause the bridge with less width and more lengt it seems like a rail.. :P

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Re: Castle Lands [D] (up. 03-15: ready for gameplay stamp?)

Postby pikkio on Thu Mar 19, 2009 2:49 pm

thenobodies80 wrote:i asked to ian.
He asked only to set tower with 2 neutrals and castle with 3/4 neutrals.

I think 2 towers and 4 castle ;)


and the bridges? 3?

form me it's ok. maybe tommorrow i will post an example map with the starting neutrals, for today i'm finish or i will die.. :P
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Re: Castle Lands [D] (up. 03-15: ready for gameplay stamp?)

Postby thenobodies80 on Thu Mar 19, 2009 3:00 pm

yes,

+3 bridges
+2 towers
+4 castle
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Re: Castle Lands [D] (up. 03-19: new flags and shadows- page 14)

Postby rishaed on Fri Mar 20, 2009 5:40 am

hey, on the towers and catapults with same flag...put a the before same to make it sound better....better English at least. :D
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Re: Castle Lands [D] (up. 03-19: new flags and shadows- page 14)

Postby thenobodies80 on Fri Mar 20, 2009 6:01 am

rishaed wrote:hey, on the towers and catapults with same flag...put a the before same to make it sound better....better English at least. :D



Sorry we aren't english and i think you understood the meaning!
Please be patient with language...
I don't think we are at school here... :roll:
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Re: Castle Lands [D] (up. 03-19: new flags and shadows- page 14)

Postby rishaed on Fri Mar 20, 2009 6:14 am

thenobodies80 wrote:
rishaed wrote:hey, on the towers and catapults with same flag...put a the before same to make it sound better....better English at least. :D



Sorry we aren't english and i think you understood the meaning!
Please be patient with language...
I don't think we are at school here... :roll:

It's ok b/c most of the words are good...just a little something to make it better :roll:
and lol at the school part b/c that's where i'm heading :lol:
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Re: Castle Lands [D] (up. 03-19: new flags and shadows- page 14)

Postby thenobodies80 on Fri Mar 20, 2009 7:07 am

rishaed wrote:
thenobodies80 wrote:
rishaed wrote:hey, on the towers and catapults with same flag...put a the before same to make it sound better....better English at least. :D



Sorry we aren't english and i think you understood the meaning!
Please be patient with language...
I don't think we are at school here... :roll:

It's ok b/c most of the words are good...just a little something to make it better :roll:
and lol at the school part b/c that's where i'm heading :lol:



:lol:
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Re: Castle Lands [D] (up. 03-19: new flags and shadows- page 14)

Postby Qwert on Fri Mar 20, 2009 3:41 pm

I think the biggest perception issue is that the Towers look like they are part of the castle, as Castles often have towers that look just like that. But I think, from your legend, that the towers and castle are not part of the same thing, and the castle is only the mini castle on the inside and not the greater castle.

I dont see any confusion with Tower and castles. Just left these like now and if these become confusing in Beta stage,then he can change without interupt gameplay.
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Re: Castle Lands [D] (up. 03-19: new flags and shadows- page 14)

Postby pikkio on Sun Mar 22, 2009 10:19 am

i'm sorry but in these days i had too much things to do and i can't work on the map..

now i made the little correction about the legend and an example version with the starting neutrals.

this is the map with the final gameplay. remember that the courts are starting positions.

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Re: Castle Lands [D] (up. 03-19: new flags and shadows- page 14)

Postby iancanton on Mon Mar 23, 2009 11:59 am

pikkio wrote:this is the map with the final gameplay.

i agree.

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the names of two of the court territories, lord and vicar, can be improved. lord is not a separate noble rank: a baron is the lowest-ranked noble in england and is usually called lord. the modern english vicar is a priest who is in charge of an ordinary local parish church. i‘d like to see these names replaced by ones which sound more medieval, like knight and abbot.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A2791929

Although barons outside England are referred to by the title and their last name - eg, 'Baron Rothschild' - within England the title 'lord' is more common, as in 'Lord Byron'.

The knight was the basic fighting unit of any medieval army.

http://www.middle-ages.org.uk/medieval-monastery.htm

Men who entered a Medieval monastery could become both wealthy and successful. The abbey, the term used for a monastery, was under the authority of an abbot.

ian. :)
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Re: Castle Lands [D,Gp] (up. 03-22: gameplay stamp!! -pg 14)

Postby pikkio on Mon Mar 23, 2009 12:15 pm

THANX!! =D> :mrgreen:


i will change those names and will make the small map. i hope that the graphic stamp it's near too.. ;)
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Re: Castle Lands [D] (up. 03-19: new flags and shadows- page 14)

Postby thenobodies80 on Mon Mar 23, 2009 2:21 pm

iancanton wrote:the names of two of the court territories, lord and vicar, can be improved. lord is not a separate noble rank: a baron is the lowest-ranked noble in england and is usually called lord. the modern english vicar is a priest who is in charge of an ordinary local parish church. i‘d like to see these names replaced by ones which sound more medieval, like knight and abbot.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A2791929

Although barons outside England are referred to by the title and their last name - eg, 'Baron Rothschild' - within England the title 'lord' is more common, as in 'Lord Byron'.

The knight was the basic fighting unit of any medieval army.

http://www.middle-ages.org.uk/medieval-monastery.htm

Men who entered a Medieval monastery could become both wealthy and successful. The abbey, the term used for a monastery, was under the authority of an abbot.

ian. :)


I love your suggestions :D
I'm complitely agree (as Pikkio)

Thank you for the stamp! =D>
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Re: Castle Lands [D,Gp] (up. 03-22: gameplay stamp!! -pg 14)

Postby rishaed on Mon Mar 23, 2009 2:32 pm

great looking map, i like the new brightness 8-)
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Re: Castle Lands [D,Gp] (up. 03-27: small map -page 15)

Postby pikkio on Fri Mar 27, 2009 12:37 pm

i'm sorry but i'd been away for some days.

now i made a small map and corrected the names of Lord and Vicar (changed to Knight and Abbey).

Version 8.8 big
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Version 8.8 small
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it's ok or may i do some changes?
i'm ready for the graphic stamp? :mrgreen:
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Re: Castle Lands [D,Gp] (up. 03-27: small map -page 15)

Postby gimil on Sun Mar 29, 2009 12:29 pm

No one seems to have any problems and I am happy with what we have here also!

Well done guys!

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Re: Castle Lands [D,Gp] (up. 03-27: small map -page 15)

Postby pikkio on Sun Mar 29, 2009 1:01 pm

YHEEEEEEEEEEAAAA! :mrgreen: =D>

finally we'll go to the final forge!! 8-)

thanx to all!
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Re: Castle Lands [D,Gp] (up. 03-27: small map -page 15)

Postby cairnswk on Sun Mar 29, 2009 1:05 pm

Nice map guys. Well done, this has a very "sveldt" feel about it, almost like it is printed on material.

Is it possible/would it be a good idea to place a couple of flag icons on the legend near the "Towers and...", I had difficulty find them initially on the castle (not for want of looking...i was trying to work out who could bombard who).
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Re: Castle Lands [D,Gp] (up. 03-27: small map -page 15)

Postby pikkio on Sun Mar 29, 2009 1:20 pm

cairnswk wrote:Nice map guys. Well done, this has a very "sveldt" feel about it, almost like it is printed on material.

Is it possible/would it be a good idea to place a couple of flag icons on the legend near the "Towers and...", I had difficulty find them initially on the castle (not for want of looking...i was trying to work out who could bombard who).


nice idea. no problem! ;)
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Re: Castle Lands [D,Gp,Gr] (up. 03-29: GRAPHIC STAMP -page 15)

Postby EagleofGreenErth on Sun Mar 29, 2009 1:31 pm

Love it. :)

Its come a long way!
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Re: Castle Lands [D,Gp,Gr] (up. 03-29: GRAPHIC STAMP -page 15)

Postby barterer2002 on Mon Mar 30, 2009 9:05 am

Looks great there Pikkio. The only concern I have is the castle and towers themselves.

If they start as neutral, particularly if they start at higher than +3 then they become something that never gets attacked, somewhat defeating the purpose of having them in the first place (think of the laggers in Galapagos after they became +10). I certainly understand that the idea of dropping a +2 bonus on a map when everyone else is just starting with 3 also is an issue, however, it seems to me that we want people to attack into the castle since that's the title of the map itself. From my reading of the starting plan a player would have to go through 6 neutrals just to get to the castle and would then be subject to attack from all the catapaults around it. I can't see why a player would make that attack (although without doubt some would).

My solution to this issue would be as follows:

1). Lower the castle bonus back down to your original 1 so that its not too much if the first player drops it.
2). Lower the tower neutrals down to 1s-everyone has access through them due to the starting position. (Actually I suppose 2s is OK as well but I'm trying to make the castle attackable and part of the gameplay)
3). If your worried about the castle having too much exposure at this point make the catapaults auto neutral to start but personally I don't think that's necessary.

I think its a great map and I look forward to playing it. I know late comers making suggestions is an issue, however, I was asked to comment and I think that the concern that the castle becomes not part of the game play is a valid one.
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Re: Castle Lands [D,Gp,Gr] (up. 03-29: GRAPHIC STAMP -page 15)

Postby MrBenn on Mon Mar 30, 2009 9:29 am

Just some minor changes I can suggest...

I'd swap the names of Quicksand / The Flats - it seems a bit illogical to put a catapault on quicksand! :lol:
Also switch the Mountain Peak and Pass around, so the peak is in the corner, and the pass will be 'passed through'

Can you add shadows beneath the flags?

The wording of the legend needs a little bit of a tweak... I'm not too sure how to best word the 'flag' rule, but you should change the 2nd part to "All catapaults can bombard the castle".
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Re: Castle Lands [D,Gp,Gr] (up. 03-29: GRAPHIC STAMP -page 15)

Postby pikkio on Mon Mar 30, 2009 9:52 am

i'm not an expert of gameplay, so i wait the opinion of somebody else before i make changes on the starting neutrals (iancanton gave me the gameplay stamp with that starting positions, so i think i can't change it without his ok). however, in my opinion, 1 army is too poor and if i must change it i prefer to start with 2 neutrals in towers and castle too.
we discussed a lot about it, and try to take the castle and towers is a good choice in every case because if you hold all the inner territories, then you can defend all they by the bridges and only from bombardments by the towers/castle (you gain 17 bonus and defend from 4+5=9). i suppose that defeat that neutrals is a good price for this deal! ;)

answering to benn:
i will swip quicksand and flats, but i will not change Peak and pass cause i made the texture by that names: the Peak has one Snowy Peak in the middle, and the Pass has a little way on the mountains that pass outer of the map (you can see it on the right of the army circle). ;)

i tried to put shadow at the flags but i can put it only from the basement cause made the flag's shadow it's really hard for me and it results too big and not beautiful. i'm sorry but that is my best (i did several attemps..).

i will change the legend's phrase. ;)
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Re: Castle Lands [D,Gp,Gr] (up. 03-29: GRAPHIC STAMP -page 15)

Postby barterer2002 on Mon Mar 30, 2009 10:09 am

pikkio wrote:i'm not an expert of gameplay, so i wait the opinion of somebody else before i make changes on the starting neutrals (iancanton gave me the gameplay stamp with that starting positions, so i think i can't change it without his ok). however, in my opinion, 1 army is too poor and if i must change it i prefer to start with 2 neutrals in towers and castle too.
we discussed a lot about it, and try to take the castle and towers is a good choice in every case because if you hold all the inner territories, then you can defend all they by the bridges and only from bombardments by the towers/castle (you gain 17 bonus and defend from 4+5=9). i suppose that defeat that neutrals is a good price for this deal! ;)


I'm missing something here I think. I'm not sure why someone would actually attack into the castle. You talk about a 17 bonus including the bridges (which is going to be something you're only going to get at the end of the game when you're strong) which would be +5 for the bridges and +8 for the court for a total of +13. Adding in the towers for +4 brings you to +17 so as I read it, even in your numbers nobody is actually attacking the castle.

In truth its your map and if you're comfortable with the castle, for the most part, being out of gameplay that's OK but it seems to me that that's where it is at the moment. If you're OK with that, I'm OK with it.
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Re: Castle Lands [D,Gp,Gr] (up. 03-29: GRAPHIC STAMP -page 15)

Postby whitestazn88 on Mon Mar 30, 2009 10:18 am

this is my first time looking at the map, and i'm here to post my map review.

personally, its not bad at all. in fact, i like it a lot. the bonuses seem fair, and i like the bombarding feature on the map, especially since it makes sense, as it is a castle...

the one thing i am not a big fan of is the graphics, which seem like they're coming out of sim city or the oregon trail, but better. they just seem a little fuzzy and could have finer details added.

but, i would let this one go through to final forge.
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Re: Castle Lands [D,Gp,Gr] (up. 03-29: GRAPHIC STAMP -page 15)

Postby thenobodies80 on Mon Mar 30, 2009 10:49 am

About this i want to spend few word because i helped a few pikkio with the gameplay:

barterer2002 wrote:Looks great there Pikkio. The only concern I have is the castle and towers themselves.
If they start as neutral, particularly if they start at higher than +3 then they become something that never gets attacked, somewhat defeating the purpose of having them in the first place (think of the laggers in Galapagos after they became +10). I certainly understand that the idea of dropping a +2 bonus on a map when everyone else is just starting with 3 also is an issue, however, it seems to me that we want people to attack into the castle since that's the title of the map itself. From my reading of the starting plan a player would have to go through 6 neutrals just to get to the castle and would then be subject to attack from all the catapaults around it. I can't see why a player would make that attack (although without doubt some would).


Probably, but not sure...
I think the gameplay as it is now is open to various type of strategies.
Someone would take the castle, some one else not.
I don't think could be a good thing to have a map in which all the players "play the same way".
Yes take the courts, the castle and the towers could be difficult, but zone bonuses you gain (defendable with 4+5 territories) for a turn is a good prize for what you spent to take all them.
The gameplay was developed to have more ways to take the victory, if you like to develope a "one way" win strategy, i think this won't be your favourite map.


barterer2002 wrote:1). Lower the castle bonus back down to your original 1 so that its not too much if the first player drops it.
2). Lower the tower neutrals down to 1s-everyone has access through them due to the starting position. (Actually I suppose 2s is OK as well but I'm trying to make the castle attackable and part of the gameplay)
3). If your worried about the castle having too much exposure at this point make the catapaults auto neutral to start but personally I don't think that's necessary.


1. Castle start as neutral with 4 armies how a player can drop it? :-s also i think castle could be at least +3 starting neutrals.
2. The tower are good with a +2 neutral. You can decide to deploy you starting armies in one of the courts, 2 armies are not so much to beat. ;)
In the next turn you can try to take the castle.


But, as pikkio, i like to know what ian think about that...
There's no graphical change to do about you say. But i like to know how this map works before i start the xml
About legend i have an idea but i like first to talk with pikkio about it. :mrgreen:


Thank you all for the suggestions.
=D>

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