Castle Lands [Quenched]

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Re: Castle Lands [Beta]

Postby PLAYER57832 on Sat May 30, 2009 6:03 pm

I like this map a lot!

A minor tweak, though.

There is a brown spot just to the right of the East Bridge that makes it seem as if the bridge is connected to the brown section as well as Woodland. This is the only one that is not clear.
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Re: Castle Lands [Beta]

Postby Hatchman on Sun May 31, 2009 9:40 am

I think it's a very clever map... Now how many forced neutrals? Nine? Do we really need them?
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Re: Castle Lands [Beta]

Postby Seulessliathan on Sun May 31, 2009 12:40 pm

hatchman wrote:I think it's a very clever map... Now how many forced neutrals? Nine? Do we really need them?


what about making the bridge neutrals 2´s?
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Re: Castle Lands [Beta]

Postby iancanton on Sun May 31, 2009 1:04 pm

reducing the bridge neutrals to 2 each is possible. at the moment, about half of 1v1 games finish with no bridges captured. we must start all bridges neutral because this is an essential part of the gameplay design for this map.

however, we have a more pressing problem in 2-player games. player 1 starts with 12 regions and a deployment of 4 troops so, by winning only 1 region from player 2, he secures an immediate advantage, cutting player 2's starting deployment to only 3 troops. also in 2-player games, the castle is almost never captured, for example Game 4992779.

we can stop these two things from happening if we code the 4 towers as start positions and not the 8 courts. if we do this, then there will be only 5 regions that are forced to start neutral: the tower and 4 bridges.

ian. :)
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Re: Castle Lands [Beta]

Postby Mr_Adams on Sun May 31, 2009 4:34 pm

I disagree. I'm in about a dozen of these games right now and I find the neutral towers to be the best possible turn 1 card territory half the time.
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Re: Castle Lands [Beta]

Postby thenobodies80 on Sun May 31, 2009 6:26 pm

iancanton wrote:reducing the bridge neutrals to 2 each is possible.


Agreed

iancanton wrote:however, we have a more pressing problem in 2-player games. player 1 starts with 12 regions and a deployment of 4 troops so, by winning only 1 region from player 2, he secures an immediate advantage, cutting player 2's starting deployment to only 3 troops. also in 2-player games, the castle is almost never captured, for example Game 4992779.

we can stop these two things from happening if we code the 4 towers as start positions and not the 8 courts. if we do this, then there will be only 5 regions that are forced to start neutral: the tower and 4 bridges.

ian. :)


About this i'm confused, you're saying to set the 4 towers as starting position instead of courts?
Why there's a tower as starting neutral? :?

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Re: Castle Lands [Beta]

Postby iancanton on Mon Jun 01, 2009 2:52 am

well spotted, that man! if we set as start positions the towers instead of the courts, then the castle and 4 bridges will be forced to start neutral.

ian. :)
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Re: Castle Lands [Beta]

Postby thenobodies80 on Mon Jun 01, 2009 7:18 am

I'll talk with Pikkio about these changes...
thank you guys! :)

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Re: Castle Lands [Beta]

Postby MrBenn on Mon Jun 01, 2009 8:18 am

The courts are set as starting positions because there are 8 of them, which ensures that everybody has an equal chance of getting the castle/courts in ANY game-type.
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Re: Castle Lands [Beta]

Postby Hopscotcher on Mon Jun 01, 2009 8:31 am

I played a game and I think it said that I could assault The Ridge from Coppiece. I didn't try it, because that is not where I wanted to attack, but you might want to check that out.

Fun Map!

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Re: Castle Lands [Beta]

Postby thenobodies80 on Mon Jun 01, 2009 9:30 am

Hopscotcher wrote:I played a game and I think it said that I could assault The Ridge from Coppiece. I didn't try it, because that is not where I wanted to attack, but you might want to check that out.

Fun Map!

ttfn,
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Where do we write that? :?

Towers and catapults with the same coloured flag can bombard each other

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Re: Castle Lands [Beta]

Postby OlJock99 on Mon Jun 01, 2009 10:11 am

I agree with the 12 region comment. That's my biggest beef with the Siege Map. Getting rid of 2 neutrals would help a ton.
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Re: Castle Lands [Beta]

Postby Hopscotcher on Mon Jun 01, 2009 1:33 pm

thenobodies80 wrote:
Hopscotcher wrote:I played a game and I think it said that I could assault The Ridge from Coppiece. I didn't try it, because that is not where I wanted to attack, but you might want to check that out.

Fun Map!

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Where do we write that? :?

Towers and catapults with the same coloured flag can bombard each other


Coppiece is yellow. Ridge is red.
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Re: Castle Lands [Beta]

Postby Hopscotcher on Mon Jun 01, 2009 1:35 pm

OlJock99 wrote:I agree with the 12 region comment. That's my biggest beef with the Siege Map. Getting rid of 2 neutrals would help a ton.


Perhaps the Catapults start off as Neuts as well?
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Re: Castle Lands [Beta]

Postby Mr_Adams on Mon Jun 01, 2009 7:48 pm

8 for the courts seems excesive. why not 6?
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Re: Castle Lands [Beta]

Postby Arachnophobia on Tue Jun 02, 2009 3:39 am

One thing (dunno if it has been discussed before, too lazy to read the whole thread):
How do you attack the castle? There's walls around it (obviously), implying an impassable, but no way to get in, except for bombarding (which doesnt capture the towers). So just from looking at it, I see no way to attack the castle. Which is bad and should be corrected :P
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Re: Castle Lands [Beta]

Postby lozzini on Tue Jun 02, 2009 4:34 am

Arachnophobia wrote:One thing (dunno if it has been discussed before, too lazy to read the whole thread):
How do you attack the castle? There's walls around it (obviously), implying an impassable, but no way to get in, except for bombarding (which doesnt capture the towers). So just from looking at it, I see no way to attack the castle. Which is bad and should be corrected :P



I belive, you can bombard from the catapults, or you can take the towers from where they connect with the outside, and then the towers can attack the castle

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Re: Castle Lands [Beta]

Postby Hatchman on Tue Jun 02, 2009 5:02 am

I'm just tired of this recent trend of maps with a billion neutrals. Bogs ya down. And it's mainly to minimize a first-round advantage in 1vs1 games I believe? Too much catering to one style of play. Perhaps there should be two versions of each map: a 1vs1 version and an everything else version... :-k
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Re: Castle Lands [Beta]

Postby thenobodies80 on Tue Jun 02, 2009 6:30 am

lozzini wrote:
Arachnophobia wrote:One thing (dunno if it has been discussed before, too lazy to read the whole thread):
How do you attack the castle? There's walls around it (obviously), implying an impassable, but no way to get in, except for bombarding (which doesnt capture the towers). So just from looking at it, I see no way to attack the castle. Which is bad and should be corrected :P



I belive, you can bombard from the catapults, or you can take the towers from where they connect with the outside, and then the towers can attack the castle

Lozz


Yes, correct.

The castle could be attacked only by the 4 towers. (and bombarded by catatpults)
The towers can be attacked by the courts that border with them. (there's a door) ;)

hatchman wrote:I'm just tired of this recent trend of maps with a billion neutrals. Bogs ya down. And it's mainly to minimize a first-round advantage in 1vs1 games I believe? Too much catering to one style of play. Perhaps there should be two versions of each map: a 1vs1 version and an everything else version... :-k


It's no possible to have 2 versions of a unique map.
Anyway, we're working to fix the neutral/starting points :)
I'll be ready in a couple of minutes.

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Re: Castle Lands [Beta]

Postby thenobodies80 on Tue Jun 02, 2009 7:29 am

OK, i'd like to know what you think about this option:

  • Bridges will start with 2 neutrals. (current:3)
    Code: Select all
    <territory>
          <name>East Bridge</name>
          <borders>
             <border>Knight</border>
             <border>Woodland</border>
          </borders>
          <coordinates>
             <smallx>398</smallx>
             <smally>250</smally>
             <largex>529</largex>
             <largey>327</largey>
          </coordinates>
             <neutral>2</neutral>
    </territory>
    <territory>
          <name>North Bridge</name>
          <borders>
             <border>Earl</border>
             <border>Oilseed</border>
          </borders>
          <coordinates>
             <smallx>260</smallx>
             <smally>143</smally>
             <largex>349</largex>
             <largey>184</largey>
          </coordinates>
             <neutral>2</neutral>
    </territory>
    <territory>
          <name>South Bridge</name>
          <borders>
             <border>Bishop</border>
             <border>Peak</border>
          </borders>
          <coordinates>
             <smallx>285</smallx>
             <smally>369</smally>
             <largex>381</largex>
             <largey>483</largey>
          </coordinates>
             <neutral>2</neutral>     
    </territory>
    <territory>
          <name>West Bridge</name>
          <borders>
             <border>Marquess</border>
             <border>Savannah</border> 
          </borders>
          <coordinates>
             <smallx>144</smallx>
             <smally>275</smally>
             <largex>195</largex>
             <largey>357</largey>
          </coordinates>
             <neutral>2</neutral>
    </territory>
  • Only half of the courts will be starting positions, i picked out the 4 which border with the bridges. (current: 8 courts are starting positions)
  • The 4 towers will be coded as starting positions. (current: 2 armies starting neutrals)
    Code: Select all
    <positions>
          <position>
          <territory>Bishop</territory>
          </position>
          <position>
          <territory>Earl</territory>
          </position>
          <position>
          <territory>Knight</territory>
          </position>
          <position>
          <territory>Marquess</territory>
          </position>
          <position>
          <territory>Desert Tower</territory>
          </position>
          <position>
          <territory>Field Tower</territory>
          </position>
          <position>
          <territory>Forest Tower</territory>
          </position>
          <position>
          <territory>Mountain Tower</territory>
          </position>
    </positions>
  • The courts bonus will be reduced to 6 (current: +8)
    Code: Select all
    <continent>
          <name>Courts</name>
          <bonus>6</bonus>
          <components>
             <territory>Abbot</territory>
             <territory>Baron</territory>
             <territory>Bishop</territory>
             <territory>Duke</territory>
             <territory>Earl</territory>
             <territory>Knight</territory>
             <territory>Marquess</territory>
             <territory>Viscount</territory>
          </components>
    </continent>

So forced neutrals are reduced from 9 to 5.A player can't start the game with the courts bonus because 50% of them are splitted. The game will be played a bit more in the middle part of the map, but the lower neutral bridges could give an easy choice to connect outside and inside troops.
What do you think?
Suggestions/critics are welcome! :)

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Re: Castle Lands [Beta]

Postby pikkio on Tue Jun 02, 2009 8:40 am

with this changes the map will be balanced in our opinion. please tell us what you think about. ^_^

only a question: if we change those things, what will happen to the current opened games? do they continue with the last version or do the map rules change in the middle of a game?
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Re: Castle Lands [Beta]

Postby thenobodies80 on Tue Jun 02, 2009 8:57 am

pikkio wrote:with this changes the map will be balanced in our opinion. please tell us what you think about. ^_^

only a question: if we change those things, what will happen to the current opened games? do they continue with the last version or do the map rules change in the middle of a game?


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Re: Castle Lands [Beta]

Postby Arachnophobia on Tue Jun 02, 2009 9:30 am

ok so there's doors. Dunno, I didnt even see the doors :p. Maybe put arrows to make it clear? Or put roads in the lands that connect them with the doors (to put emphasis on them...)
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Re: Castle Lands [Beta]

Postby Hatchman on Tue Jun 02, 2009 10:08 am

Map Inspect revealed no doors to me... :-s
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Re: Castle Lands [Beta]

Postby thenobodies80 on Tue Jun 02, 2009 10:23 am

hatchman wrote:Map Inspect revealed no doors to me... :-s


I rechecked the xml

From map inspect:

Towers (4) | 4 |
Desert Tower <2> ==> Baron {3} Castle <4>
Field Tower <2> ==> Abbot {3} Castle <4>
Forest Tower <2> ==> Castle <4> Duke {3}
Mountain Tower <2> ==> Castle <4> Viscount {3}


Tower border with adjacent territories and castle.
So you have to take the tower to go to the castle.
For a better explanation here a part of the xml file for a tower and his adjacent territory:
Mountain Tower
Code: Select all
<territory>
   <name>Mountain Tower</name>
   <borders>
   <border>Castle</border>
   <border>Viscount</border>
   </borders>
   <bombardments>
   <bombardment>Ridge</bombardment>
   </bombardments>
   <coordinates>
   <smallx>305</smallx>
   <smally>293</smally>
   <largex>406</largex>
   <largey>382</largey>
   </coordinates>
   <neutral>2</neutral>
</territory>

Viscount
Code: Select all
<territory>
   <name>Viscount</name>
   <borders>
   <border>Baron</border>
   <border>Bishop</border>
   <border>Duke</border>
   <border>Knight</border>
   <border>Mountain Tower</border>
   </borders>
   <coordinates>
   <smallx>351</smallx>
   <smally>282</smally>
   <largex>469</largex>
   <largey>367</largey>
   </coordinates>
</territory>


Obviously the door is the graphic way to explain this ;)

thenobodies80

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