Conquer Club

Hopscotcher wrote:I played a game and I think it said that I could assault The Ridge from Coppiece. I didn't try it, because that is not where I wanted to attack, but you might want to check that out.

Fun Map!

ttfn,
Hops

Where do we write that?

Towers and catapults with the same coloured flag can bombard each other

I agree with the 12 region comment. That's my biggest beef with the Siege Map. Getting rid of 2 neutrals would help a ton.

thenobodies80 wrote:

Hopscotcher wrote:I played a game and I think it said that I could assault The Ridge from Coppiece. I didn't try it, because that is not where I wanted to attack, but you might want to check that out.

Fun Map!

ttfn,
Hops

Where do we write that?

Towers and catapults with the same coloured flag can bombard each other

Coppiece is yellow. Ridge is red.

OlJock99 wrote:I agree with the 12 region comment. That's my biggest beef with the Siege Map. Getting rid of 2 neutrals would help a ton.

Perhaps the Catapults start off as Neuts as well?

8 for the courts seems excesive. why not 6?

One thing (dunno if it has been discussed before, too lazy to read the whole thread):
How do you attack the castle? There's walls around it (obviously), implying an impassable, but no way to get in, except for bombarding (which doesnt capture the towers). So just from looking at it, I see no way to attack the castle. Which is bad and should be corrected

Arachnophobia wrote:One thing (dunno if it has been discussed before, too lazy to read the whole thread):
How do you attack the castle? There's walls around it (obviously), implying an impassable, but no way to get in, except for bombarding (which doesnt capture the towers). So just from looking at it, I see no way to attack the castle. Which is bad and should be corrected

I belive, you can bombard from the catapults, or you can take the towers from where they connect with the outside, and then the towers can attack the castle

Lozz

I'm just tired of this recent trend of maps with a billion neutrals. Bogs ya down. And it's mainly to minimize a first-round advantage in 1vs1 games I believe? Too much catering to one style of play. Perhaps there should be two versions of each map: a 1vs1 version and an everything else version...

lozzini wrote:

Arachnophobia wrote:One thing (dunno if it has been discussed before, too lazy to read the whole thread):
How do you attack the castle? There's walls around it (obviously), implying an impassable, but no way to get in, except for bombarding (which doesnt capture the towers). So just from looking at it, I see no way to attack the castle. Which is bad and should be corrected

I belive, you can bombard from the catapults, or you can take the towers from where they connect with the outside, and then the towers can attack the castle

Lozz

Yes, correct.

The castle could be attacked only by the 4 towers. (and bombarded by catatpults)
The towers can be attacked by the courts that border with them. (there's a door)

hatchman wrote:I'm just tired of this recent trend of maps with a billion neutrals. Bogs ya down. And it's mainly to minimize a first-round advantage in 1vs1 games I believe? Too much catering to one style of play. Perhaps there should be two versions of each map: a 1vs1 version and an everything else version...

It's no possible to have 2 versions of a unique map.
Anyway, we're working to fix the neutral/starting points
I'll be ready in a couple of minutes.

thenobodies80

OK, i'd like to know what you think about this option:

• Bridges will start with 2 neutrals. (current:3)
  

  Code: Select all

  <territory>
      <name>East Bridge</name>
      <borders>
         <border>Knight</border>
         <border>Woodland</border>
      </borders>
      <coordinates>
         <smallx>398</smallx>
         <smally>250</smally>
         <largex>529</largex>
         <largey>327</largey>
      </coordinates>
         <neutral>2</neutral>
</territory>
<territory>
      <name>North Bridge</name>
      <borders>
         <border>Earl</border>
         <border>Oilseed</border>
      </borders>
      <coordinates>
         <smallx>260</smallx>
         <smally>143</smally>
         <largex>349</largex>
         <largey>184</largey>
      </coordinates>
         <neutral>2</neutral>
</territory>
<territory>
      <name>South Bridge</name>
      <borders>
         <border>Bishop</border>
         <border>Peak</border>
      </borders>
      <coordinates>
         <smallx>285</smallx>
         <smally>369</smally>
         <largex>381</largex>
         <largey>483</largey>
      </coordinates>
         <neutral>2</neutral>     
</territory>
<territory>
      <name>West Bridge</name>
      <borders>
         <border>Marquess</border>
         <border>Savannah</border> 
      </borders>
      <coordinates>
         <smallx>144</smallx>
         <smally>275</smally>
         <largex>195</largex>
         <largey>357</largey>
      </coordinates>
         <neutral>2</neutral>
</territory>


• Only half of the courts will be starting positions, i picked out the 4 which border with the bridges. (current: 8 courts are starting positions)
• The 4 towers will be coded as starting positions. (current: 2 armies starting neutrals)
  

  Code: Select all

  <positions>
      <position>
      <territory>Bishop</territory>
      </position>
      <position>
      <territory>Earl</territory>
      </position>
      <position>
      <territory>Knight</territory>
      </position>
      <position>
      <territory>Marquess</territory>
      </position>
      <position>
      <territory>Desert Tower</territory>
      </position>
      <position>
      <territory>Field Tower</territory>
      </position>
      <position>
      <territory>Forest Tower</territory>
      </position>
      <position>
      <territory>Mountain Tower</territory>
      </position>
</positions>

• The courts bonus will be reduced to 6 (current: +8)
  

  Code: Select all

  <continent>
      <name>Courts</name>
      <bonus>6</bonus>
      <components>
         <territory>Abbot</territory>
         <territory>Baron</territory>
         <territory>Bishop</territory>
         <territory>Duke</territory>
         <territory>Earl</territory>
         <territory>Knight</territory>
         <territory>Marquess</territory>
         <territory>Viscount</territory>
      </components>
</continent>

So forced neutrals are reduced from 9 to 5.A player can't start the game with the courts bonus because 50% of them are splitted. The game will be played a bit more in the middle part of the map, but the lower neutral bridges could give an easy choice to connect outside and inside troops.
What do you think?
Suggestions/critics are welcome!

thenobodies80

with this changes the map will be balanced in our opinion. please tell us what you think about. ^_^

only a question: if we change those things, what will happen to the current opened games? do they continue with the last version or do the map rules change in the middle of a game?

pikkio wrote:with this changes the map will be balanced in our opinion. please tell us what you think about. ^_^

only a question: if we change those things, what will happen to the current opened games? do they continue with the last version or do the map rules change in the middle of a game?

Warning: Maps designated as "Beta" might have unbalanced gameplay and undergo changes mid-game. Play at your own risk!

http://www.conquerclub.com/player.php?mode=browse

ok so there's doors. Dunno, I didnt even see the doors :p. Maybe put arrows to make it clear? Or put roads in the lands that connect them with the doors (to put emphasis on them...)

Map Inspect revealed no doors to me...

hatchman wrote:Map Inspect revealed no doors to me...

I rechecked the xml

From map inspect:

Towers (4) | 4 |
Desert Tower <2> ==> Baron {3} Castle <4>
Field Tower <2> ==> Abbot {3} Castle <4>
Forest Tower <2> ==> Castle <4> Duke {3}
Mountain Tower <2> ==> Castle <4> Viscount {3}

Tower border with adjacent territories and castle.
So you have to take the tower to go to the castle.
For a better explanation here a part of the xml file for a tower and his adjacent territory:
Mountain Tower

Code: Select all

<territory>
   <name>Mountain Tower</name>
   <borders>
   <border>Castle</border>
   <border>Viscount</border>
   </borders>
   <bombardments>
   <bombardment>Ridge</bombardment>
   </bombardments>
   <coordinates>
   <smallx>305</smallx>
   <smally>293</smally>
   <largex>406</largex>
   <largey>382</largey>
   </coordinates>
   <neutral>2</neutral>
</territory>

Viscount

Code: Select all

<territory>
   <name>Viscount</name>
   <borders>
   <border>Baron</border>
   <border>Bishop</border>
   <border>Duke</border>
   <border>Knight</border>
   <border>Mountain Tower</border>
   </borders>
   <coordinates>
   <smallx>351</smallx>
   <smally>282</smally>
   <largex>469</largex>
   <largey>367</largey>
   </coordinates>
</territory>

Obviously the door is the graphic way to explain this

thenobodies80

hatchman wrote:Map Inspect revealed no doors to me...

the doors are mostly hidden by the armie circles at the bottom of the towers. it's supposed to represt the way in to the tower. is not a terr.

i opened a poll to understand what you think about the possible changes and to know if we must change all the things or only one or two.

in particular, i thought that if the towers don't start neutral, the +8 bonus of the courts is balanced, cause it's more difficult to hold it (many people to fight in the inner map..) and certainly you can defend less in the borders to the bridges cause there are neutrals army that helps you, but in the borders to the towers probably you will have a lot to fight with someone that are trying to hold tower's bonus (more easy to hold..).
if the towers remain neutrals, conquer and defend the courts are too easy and +8 bonus is too much.

so in my opinion, if we keep the towers neutral we must reduce the courts bonus but if we make the towers starting positions the +8 bonus of the courts is ok.

I do think 8 as a bonus for the court is high. Actually, all the zone bonuses seem high.

However, as per the deployment.. I am not sure how big a problem this really is. Many maps start this way in 1 vs 1, but they are still fun to play. That is just one of the things about 1 vs 1.. drops can matter more than when there are more players. (I believe I have played enough maps to have an opinion )

If you see this as serious problem, what about simply coding in a bonus army for the first turn of the second player or for each player's first turn?

I voted, but my biggest issues is starting with 11 or 13 regions per rather than 12. That will neutralize the 1v1 1st player advantage.

i like the idea of bridges starting at 2 neutrals make it so it will be easier to break the courts due to if someone has good dice to start they can hold the court to easily also making the bonus down to +6 might help it not become a clean up be round 5 if 1v1

pikkio wrote:in particular, i thought that if the towers don't start neutral, the +8 bonus of the courts is balanced, cause it's more difficult to hold it (many people to fight in the inner map..)

pikkio wrote:if the towers remain neutrals, conquer and defend the courts are too easy and +8 bonus is too much.

so in my opinion, if we keep the towers neutral we must reduce the courts bonus but if we make the towers starting positions the +8 bonus of the courts is ok.

these are my thoughts exactly.

ian.

4. Four courts and four towers coded as starting positions

as in the only starting positions? like the castles in feudal?

Mr_Adams wrote:4. Four courts and four towers coded as starting positions

as in the only starting positions? like the castles in feudal?

Actually the map has 8 coded starting positions (courts) and 9 coded starting neutrals (bridges , towers and castle).
All other territories could be splitted among the players.

or 5 coded starting neutrals (bridges and castle) if option 4 is chosen.

ian.

iancanton wrote:or 5 coded starting neutrals (bridges and castle) if option 4 is chosen.

ian.

yeah, it seems the best choice.
Courts are really strong....i would like to change bridges to +2 and starting positions as explained in option 4.
I don't know if reducing the courts bonus could be necessary after these changes, but seems people like the idea.

Hoping a in more clear poll result in these 3 days