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TRAFALGAR [12.4.2012] QUENCHED (V65)

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Re: BATTLE OF TRAFALGAR - V18(P9) - Better legend

Postby Incandenza on Sat Jan 17, 2009 9:31 pm

Well, I could nitpick, but there's one big concern: what about the french and spanish? Currently there's no way to get from a french boat to a spanish one without going via a british one.
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Re: BATTLE OF TRAFALGAR - V17(P8) - Attack lines removed

Postby The Neon Peon on Sat Jan 17, 2009 9:35 pm

cairnswk wrote:
The Neon Peon wrote:Now that is confusing...

How about we make it work like Prison Riot? Use the dotted lines to make areas on the map. All ships within one area attack each other and the ships in neighboring areas.


Are you serious? :shock: or are you saying that just so mibi will understand it?

Serious. Why do you ask?

Personally, I liked the lines, this would be my next option.
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Re: BATTLE OF TRAFALGAR - V17(P8) - Attack lines removed

Postby cairnswk on Sat Jan 17, 2009 9:39 pm

The Neon Peon wrote:...
Serious. Why do you ask?

Personally, I liked the lines, this would be my next option.

OK...i get that one.
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Re: BATTLE OF TRAFALGAR - V18(P9) - Better legend

Postby cairnswk on Sat Jan 17, 2009 9:40 pm

Incandenza wrote:Well, I could nitpick, but there's one big concern: what about the french and spanish? Currently there's no way to get from a french boat to a spanish one without going via a british one.

OK....how many would you like...2, 3, 4?
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Re: BATTLE OF TRAFALGAR - V18(P9) - Better legend

Postby rjz115dude on Sun Jan 18, 2009 9:51 am

i like the map except i think it might look better with less boats. It's worth trying
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Re: BATTLE OF TRAFALGAR - V18(P9) - Better legend

Postby LED ZEPPELINER on Sun Jan 18, 2009 9:52 am

wait, are bucentaure and victory connecting, and same with temaraire and redoubtable
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Re: BATTLE OF TRAFALGAR - V18(P9) - Better legend

Postby Gypsys Kiss on Sun Jan 18, 2009 11:23 am

rjz115dude wrote:i like the map except i think it might look better with less boats. It's worth trying


If you take out any ship (a submarine is a boat, these are ships ;) ) it is no longer The battle of Trafalgar.

I like it without the lines.

You can come through Neptune via Heros to attack the NW, awsell as through Victory, cant you?
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Re: BATTLE OF TRAFALGAR - V18(P9) - Better legend

Postby cairnswk on Sun Jan 18, 2009 12:14 pm

rjz115dude wrote:i like the map except i think it might look better with less boats. It's worth trying

Thanks rj :) ....i know what you're saying, but if you take any of these ships out, then you don't have the battle of Trafalgar.

LED ZEPPELINER wrote:wait, are bucentaure and victory connecting, and same with temaraire and redoubtable

Yes.

Gypsys Kiss wrote:....
You can come through Neptune via Heros to attack the NW, awsell as through Victory, cant you?

Well, Heros can bombard Neptune, but can't board Neptuen.
What Incandenza was after was another boarding passage up there in the NW.

Incandenza wrote:Well, I could nitpick, but there's one big concern: what about the french and spanish? Currently there's no way to get from a french boat to a spanish one without going via a british one.

There is one passsage between (F) Intrepid and (S) Raoy.
But my question here is....should there be an boarding passageway between the French and the Spanish afterall they were on the same side.
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Re: BATTLE OF TRAFALGAR - V18(P9) - Better legend

Postby LED ZEPPELINER on Sun Jan 18, 2009 12:18 pm

cairnswk wrote:should there be an boarding passageway between the French and the Spanish afterall they were on the same side.

i think that for the perpous of gameplay, there should, unless you give definate starting positions
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Re: BATTLE OF TRAFALGAR - V18(P9) - Better legend

Postby Gypsys Kiss on Sun Jan 18, 2009 12:36 pm

cairnswk wrote:
Gypsys Kiss wrote:....
You can come through Neptune via Heros to attack the NW, awsell as through Victory, cant you?

Well, Heros can bombard Neptune, but can't board Neptuen.
What Incandenza was after was another boarding passage up there in the NW.


Ahhh, I can see that now.

In that case can you lock Heros and Africa together?
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Re: BATTLE OF TRAFALGAR - V18(P9) - Better legend

Postby cairnswk on Sun Jan 18, 2009 2:48 pm

Gypsys Kiss wrote:
cairnswk wrote:
Gypsys Kiss wrote:....
You can come through Neptune via Heros to attack the NW, awsell as through Victory, cant you?

Well, Heros can bombard Neptune, but can't board Neptuen.
What Incandenza was after was another boarding passage up there in the NW.


Ahhh, I can see that now.

In that case can you lock Heros and Africa together?

No, but i can swap the Spanish around and lock Heros with Santissima Trinidad and Neptune with Santisima Trinidad.
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Re: BATTLE OF TRAFALGAR - V19 FR/BR/SP Boarding paths

Postby cairnswk on Sun Jan 18, 2009 2:59 pm

OK Version 19.

I have:
1. moved some Spanish and French ships to be able to boards each other.
2. provided a solution to the NW issue
3. re-arranged the deck chairs on the Titanic LOL.

Here are the boarding pathways for each combatant as i see them.
Remember, these are in any direction without a ship blocking access.

Spanish
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French
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British
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Version 19.
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Re: BATTLE OF TRAFALGAR - V19(P10) - FR/SP/BR Boarding paths

Postby Gypsys Kiss on Sun Jan 18, 2009 5:21 pm

The NW corner is much better

Are the paths you've marked the only ones or will it be every ship with a clear view. For instance you havn't put paths between Scipion and Formidable and Formidable and Dugary-Trouin. Also, considering Scipion and Neptune(F) have a path there is no need for the word 'closest' in the legend. You could descibe it thus---Any 2 ships of the same nation with a direct line of sight.


Of course i could be talking complete bollox :lol:
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Re: BATTLE OF TRAFALGAR - V19(P10) - FR/SP/BR Boarding paths

Postby cairnswk on Sun Jan 18, 2009 7:13 pm

Gypsys Kiss wrote:The NW corner is much better

Are the paths you've marked the only ones or will it be every ship with a clear view. For instance you havn't put paths between Scipion and Formidable and Formidable and Dugary-Trouin.

:oops: Left them out.

Also, considering Scipion and Neptune(F) have a path there is no need for the word 'closest' in the legend. You could descibe it thus---Any 2 ships of the same nation with a direct line of sight.
Of course i could be talking complete bollox :lol:

That makes sense. Having them as the 'closest' would reduce the number of borders for all those terts, and thus reduce the 'navy' feeling....don't you think?

i'll post an update soon...in the middle of re-installing all my software to larger hard drive. :)
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Re: BATTLE OF TRAFALGAR - V19(P10) - FR/SP/BR Boarding paths

Postby oaktown on Mon Jan 19, 2009 11:55 am

Hi cairns, I haven't been hanging around the Drafting Room much lately, so this is my first look here. So I give you the Good, the Bad, and Ugly. ;)

The Good: fantastic idea for a map. We have some naval battle maps, but they don't play like naval battles should, which is heavy on the bombardments and light on the actual boarding/capturing. Too bad there's no way to take a ship out of the game completely once it has been sunk, but I guess that could lead to stalemate games and we can't have that. And I love make-your-own-bonus maps. This makes total sense from a naval perspective as well - control a fleet.

The Bad: the bombardments and boardings are going to require some thought to make them absolutely clear, but in looking back a page or two I see that this is already a well-documented concern. Saying that ships can board the closest ships could mean that each ship can only board one other, yes? And While the closest ship to Rayo is San Augustin, the reverse is not true. And can Aigle bombard both Revenge and Defiance? Some kind of graphical indication will be needed, but I agree that all of those lines really clutter things up. It may require both changes in wording, and in how the ships are clustered together. I know, this doesn't help you any, but if anything comes to me I'll share it.

The Ugly: OK, nothing is really ugly. It took me a while to figure out that the ships were ships. At first I couldn't get over how much they looked like soft-serve ice cream, and it troubled me that so many of them were upside-down. I'd rather see a side-view of the ships, but I recognize that it would then be harder to point the guns in particular directions.

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Re: BATTLE OF TRAFALGAR - V19(P10) - FR/SP/BR Boarding paths

Postby cairnswk on Mon Jan 19, 2009 7:30 pm

oaktown wrote:Hi cairns, I haven't been hanging around the Drafting Room much lately, so this is my first look here. So I give you the Good, the Bad, and Ugly. ;)

The Good: fantastic idea for a map. We have some naval battle maps, but they don't play like naval battles should, which is heavy on the bombardments and light on the actual boarding/capturing.
:)


Too bad there's no way to take a ship out of the game completely once it has been sunk, but I guess that could lead to stalemate games and we can't have that.

Well, if you think about it....for those ships that can bombard, they will have the capacity to take their target ship out, because don't bombards reduce to neutral...until someone re-boards the vessel and takes control if that's in their best interest.
As for sinking, we no i don't think this is possible with the current xml.

And I love make-your-own-bonus maps. This makes total sense from a naval perspective as well - control a fleet.
Good.

The Bad: the bombardments and boardings are going to require some thought to make them absolutely clear, but in looking back a page or two I see that this is already a well-documented concern. Saying that ships can board the closest ships could mean that each ship can only board one other, yes? And While the closest ship to Rayo is San Augustin, the reverse is not true. And can Aigle bombard both Revenge and Defiance? Some kind of graphical indication will be needed, but I agree that all of those lines really clutter things up. It may require both changes in wording, and in how the ships are clustered together. I know, this doesn't help you any, but if anything comes to me I'll share it.
The word closest has been sliced from the legend in the update below V20. Ships from the same nation can board each other providing they have direct line of sight (good naval language) to their target ship. If another ship from any nation blocks the way, then no boarding can take place.

The Ugly: OK, nothing is really ugly. It took me a while to figure out that the ships were ships. At first I couldn't get over how much they looked like soft-serve ice cream, and it troubled me that so many of them were upside-down. I'd rather see a side-view of the ships, but I recognize that it would then be harder to point the guns in particular directions.

Well, I'm sorry but i can't help it if you have a craving: are you pregnant? Or do you have an overly active imagination?? :lol: :lol:
Putting a side view of the ship is less attractive and has been touched on in discussion. It just wouldn't look good with the canon thing.
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Re: BATTLE OF TRAFALGAR - V20

Postby cairnswk on Mon Jan 19, 2009 7:33 pm

Version 20 below:

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Re: BATTLE OF TRAFALGAR - V19(P10) - FR/SP/BR Boarding paths

Postby MrBenn on Mon Jan 19, 2009 8:07 pm

oaktown wrote:Hi cairns, I haven't been hanging around the Drafting Room much lately

I haven't been spending as much time here as I should either...

The speed of your updates is bewilderingly fast - I counted 3 or 4 updates in 24hrs, and several new pages of posts since I last caught up! (This is just an observation)

Removing the attack lines doesn;t really alter the amount of brainpower required to work out what's going on, but just adds to the confusion about who you can actually attack/bombard etc.

While reading some of the commetns here about emulating some kind of naval warfare, I wondered if we could give each ship an attack range (all the same), and say that every the ships can bombard every ship within range, and then depict a graphic representing this distance on the legend somewhere... In my mind, this would capture some of the essence of working out whether you are close enough to successfully fire upon your enemy, and could work. Attack lines could be added back in, although if they were more subtle and sat in the background, it might help make them appear less jarring?

Anyway...

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Re: BATTLE OF TRAFALGAR - V19(P10) - FR/SP/BR Boarding paths

Postby cairnswk on Mon Jan 19, 2009 8:32 pm

MrBenn wrote:
oaktown wrote:Hi cairns, I haven't been hanging around the Drafting Room much lately

I haven't been spending as much time here as I should either...

yes, that is obvious. But i am pleased to see you are now updating what should be updated.

The speed of your updates is bewilderingly fast - I counted 3 or 4 updates in 24hrs, and several new pages of posts since I last caught up! (This is just an observation)

Yes i am not working at present, waiting for uni to start in February, so i have lots of time to spend doing updates; to boot it is tropical monsoon season here at present and it's bucketing down rain, so there is not much else to do except updates.

Removing the attack lines doesn;t really alter the amount of brainpower required to work out what's going on, but just adds to the confusion about who you can actually attack/bombard etc.

While reading some of the commetns here about emulating some kind of naval warfare, I wondered if we could give each ship an attack range (all the same), and say that every the ships can bombard every ship within range, and then depict a graphic representing this distance on the legend somewhere... In my mind, this would capture some of the essence of working out whether you are close enough to successfully fire upon your enemy, and could work. Attack lines could be added back in, although if they were more subtle and sat in the background, it might help make them appear less jarring?

Having seen a map with attack lines and now without, i am very reluctant to move back towards attack lines.
Each ship involved in this battle had a firing range of approx 1200 yards. Now if you plan to indicate that in the legend like is done in mibi's trench warfare, i am not in favour of because that would involve dividing the sea up into regions of some sort.

I think that it is clearly indicated on each ship (and yes they need to be tidied) that some ships can bombard others, and those same ships also have boarding abilities from ships from the same nation that are within the direct line of sight.
Surely, you can determine what can bombard what, and what can be boarded and from where.
And don't forget, while it has been put down as a method of reliance, there is also the xml attack drop lists from the attack page that will indicate for you these options, and that is not relying on BOB.

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Re: BATTLE OF TRAFALGAR [D]- V20(P10) - Boarding Legend Wording

Postby Gypsys Kiss on Tue Jan 20, 2009 2:51 pm

Having seen the map with and without attack lines, without is better.

Oh, and they dont look anything like ice creams................
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Re: BATTLE OF TRAFALGAR [D]- V20(P10) - Boarding Legend Wording

Postby AndyDufresne on Tue Jan 20, 2009 3:20 pm

I noticed ice cream-esque ships first, like Oaktown.


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Re: BATTLE OF TRAFALGAR [D]- V20(P10) - Boarding Legend Wording

Postby cairnswk on Tue Jan 20, 2009 4:37 pm

AndyDufresne wrote:I noticed ice cream-esque ships first, like Oaktown.
--Andy

I hope you're not pregnant from the same craving as oaktown :lol: :lol:
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Re: BATTLE OF TRAFALGAR [D]- V20(P10) - Boarding Legend Wording

Postby oVo on Tue Jan 20, 2009 7:56 pm

Cool beans! A very ambitious undertaking and a beauty of a map.
I like the aerial view of the ships, the guns look a bit funky but
the gameplay should be very entertaining.
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Re: BATTLE OF TRAFALGAR [D]- V20(P10) - Boarding Legend Wording

Postby cairnswk on Tue Jan 20, 2009 8:33 pm

oVo wrote:Cool beans! A very ambitious undertaking and a beauty of a map.
I like the aerial view of the ships, the guns look a bit funky but
the gameplay should be very entertaining.

Thanks oVo. :)
The guns do need some work.
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Re: BATTLE OF TRAFALGAR [D]- V20(P10) - Boarding Legend Wording

Postby Kaplowitz on Tue Jan 20, 2009 9:44 pm

In my AP European HIstory class today we were talking about Trafalgar and Napoleon, and i asked if the Spanish were involved. My teacher got really mad at me and said that Spain had been a third rate power since Britain defeated their armada in like 1508 or something....are you sure they were in this?
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Location: Doin' it for da lulz.
Medals: 6
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (1) Assassin Achievement (1) Speed Achievement (2)

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