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Re: Rose City Map - 6th Draft posted

Postby iancanton on Wed Feb 04, 2009 3:38 am

good start, though u must be careful with ur bonuses. looking at a 2-player game, it's certain that at least one player (if we include the neutral "player") will have at least 2 universities at the start, so the bonus ought to be +1 for holding 3 universities, not +1 for 2. similarly for the bike lanes: in a 2-player game, someone is certain to have at least 2 bike lanes and very likely to have 3 at the start, so the small bonus ought to be +1 for holding 4 bike lanes, not +1 for 2. by a similar argument (though this one isn't so obvious), the 4 public parks bonus ought to be for holding 5. conversely, each of the bonuses for holding all of something (such as all 4 symbols) can be increased, since this is difficult to do.

try to put in some impassables such as trees, walls or highways since, at the moment, nearly every territory is a border territory. the biggest impassable, the river, can be given a greater effect by removing one or two bridges. the least well-known max stations can also be removed to create impassables.

ian. :)
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Re: Rose City [D] (v 6, pg 3)

Postby bmatson on Wed Feb 04, 2009 1:43 pm

Looks very good. I think this one will be a good play.
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Re: Rose City Map - 6th Draft posted

Postby lostatlimbo on Fri Feb 06, 2009 8:28 pm

great feedback, ian!

I'll try to post another draft with your suggestions this weekend. thanks.

re: the Max stations - since those are all territories - they are much less passable than bridges, since you would have to attack 'through' the Max station, rather than 'over' it. I will still look at dropping a couple, but I'm also told the current 42 territory count is ideal for even drops.
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Re: Rose City [D] (v 7, pg 4)

Postby lostatlimbo on Mon Feb 09, 2009 3:31 am

Seventh Draft update:
Made significant layout changes.
Removed some MAX stops (#3 & #11 gone)
Added new territories in SE (split Belmont into Hawthorne; split Clinton into Mt. Scott).
Re-designed NW & SW (removed Multnomah Village; added Sylvan Heights)
Re-routed Blue Line MAX through Downtown.
Added impassables (Railroads dividing territories in N, NE & NW; water (a resevoir) & an obstruction in SE).
(Debating on how to signify these in the legend)
Restructured Park & Bike bonuses and District bonuses according to re-structuring.
REMOVED "School" bonus completely.
Re-colored Downtown.
Re-did legend
Seventh Draft addendum:
Extended NE railroad and raised bonus to +6
Added "Detours" section to legend to show impassables.
Changed SE reservoir image to look more like a body of water

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q102/lostatlimbo/portland9.jpg
Last edited by lostatlimbo on Tue Feb 10, 2009 9:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Rose City [D] (v 7.5, pg 4) - big update

Postby the.killing.44 on Mon Feb 09, 2009 5:11 pm

There's something up with your borders … instead of a straight line they're more like pixelated-type ones kinda like _—¯ instead of / if you know what I mean … look at Slough's bottom border.

.44
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Re: Rose City [D] (v 8, pg 4) - graphic & gameplay change!

Postby lostatlimbo on Tue Feb 10, 2009 12:38 am

Eighth Draft update:
Completely re-drew borders for entire map.
Re-drew all Parks, Bridges, & Detours.
Added impassable 'bluffs' to Swan Island. Access only from NW Industrial & MAX stop 7. Upped North bonus to +4.
Bike lanes can now attack other bike lanes. Bonus ONLY for holding all bike lanes.

Click image to enlarge.
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Re: Rose City (v 9, pg 4) - New Look

Postby lostatlimbo on Sat Feb 14, 2009 2:42 am

9th Draft update:
Does this tickle anyone's fancy?

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Re: Rose City (v 9, pg 4) - New Look

Postby the.killing.44 on Sat Feb 14, 2009 5:36 pm

You got a 4-way border @ Irvington-Alameda. Gotta fix that up ;)

.44
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Re: Rose City (v 9, pg 4) - New Look

Postby psilotum on Sun Feb 15, 2009 2:19 pm

the.killing.44 wrote:You got a 4-way border @ Irvington-Alameda. Gotta fix that up ;)

.44


Perhaps plop Lloyd Center on the intersection there? I'm not sure if that is the absolute correct position, but it's close.
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Re: Rose City (v 9, pg 4) - New Look

Postby oaktown on Tue Feb 17, 2009 1:05 am

I must admit, this map continues to surprise me. It has a fun look to it. Some bits need some work - the weird blob between Oregon Zoo and Goose Hollow foe example - but it's coming along. The biggest element that isn't working for me visually at all is the photo behind the title... this is a map of vivid, primary colors, and strong graphic elements, but the top of the map looks like it belongs on a different map entirely.

Other bits look great - I especially like how you've approached the rail lines with bold strokes and sharp corners - though I notice that some corners are awkwardly rounded, like the blue corner below PSU. What I think makes the rail lines work is that they are unabashedly flat and bold, as are the colors of the regions which I also like. Ditto the bikes, the botom legend, and the shoe (which makes me chuckle - I wonder what Phil would say??) Meanwhile the bridges are not flat and not bold - you've muted the color palette for the bridges and made them 3-D and shaded, making it look like some kid left some lego pieces on top of your map.

In terms of gameplay there are a few things to sort out still. For starters, we have always tried to avoid four-way borders. The four-way intersection will confuse players who will wonder if Alameda and Irvington connect... i wonder that myself.

And forgive me for not following the discussion on this, but to me the bikes attacking each other makes no sense. Why a bike would allow you to jump directly from St. Johns to Reed leaves me perplexed. It's not logical, and I don't really think it makes the play of the map any better. in fact, I'd say it makes things worse because now the regions are impossible to hold - in the NE every territory is a border, and in the SE only two territs are safe. Wow, now that i look at it, downtown and NW are all border terits as well, and N has only one safe territory. Potentially frustrating map to play, because with unholdable regions with big bonuses, as it will come down to who gets the best drop to start.

And some of the graphic elements lead to gameplay confusion. Station 7 seems to be able to attack a causeway of some sort... is that a link to Swan Island? NW ind?
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Re: Rose City (v 9, pg 4) - New Look

Postby iancanton on Fri Feb 20, 2009 5:10 pm

i agree that the all of the bike lanes connecting with each other (like the bus stations in sydney metro) doesn't improve the gameplay on this classic-sized map. there are no safe areas. more impassables are needed.

u can make old town a non-border territory by moving metro station 5's pointer to nob hill instead of old town. similarly, metro station 8's exit to mississippi can be deleted to achieve the same effect.

the bonuses for holding all parks or all bike lanes are on the niggardly side and will probably be ignored by all except those whose play tends toward the suicidal. u need to increase each of them by at least 4, to +9 and +7 respectively (i've used the number of territories plus one as a rough guide), for them to have any serious role in games. by the same logic, the highlights bonus becomes +5, though this one is easier to capture and therefore won't be quite so readily ignored as a tactical device.

i don't like the fareless square (metro transit center) as a starting territory with a -1 decay, since someone who starts with it is at an immediate disadvantage. it's possible to make it start with one neutral army, so that a player can choose to occupy this point if desired.

if 42 territories isn't quite enough to make a decent number of non-border territories, then 44 is also a good number of total starting territories.

ian. :)
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Re: Rose City (v 9, pg 4) - New Look

Postby lostatlimbo on Thu Mar 05, 2009 8:43 pm

Thanks all for the feedback. I have been swamped with work lately, but I plan on doing some more work on this map & incorporating all these suggestions. Look for another update in the coming weeks.
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Re: Rose City (v 9, pg 4) - New Look

Postby TotoroHat on Sun Mar 08, 2009 4:07 am

I am sure that you are aware of this but Portland extends out to 182 street and beyond on the other side of I-205 before you reach Gresham... Maybe you could include I-205 and some of extreme east PDX... Just a thought. I mean my house is already on the map but I some times feel sorry for the people living east of myself who lives in south east. Also... the bridge that is the farthest south, Is that the Sellwood Bridge or the Ross Island Bridge. The section of Reed covers about 12 neighborhoods including, Brooklyn, East Morland, West Moreland, Sellwood, Wood Stock, Errol, Brentwood, and Bellmont.
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Re: Rose City (v 9, pg 4) - New Look

Postby jwithington on Wed Mar 25, 2009 2:20 pm

YAY PORTLAND MAP!

I love the tiny bit of snark, and the use of bikes. Now you just need to add Mary's club. ;)

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Re: Rose City (v 9, pg 4) - New Look

Postby lostatlimbo on Tue Apr 28, 2009 11:05 pm

TotoroHat wrote:I am sure that you are aware of this but Portland extends out to 182 street and beyond on the other side of I-205 before you reach Gresham... Maybe you could include I-205 and some of extreme east PDX... Just a thought. I mean my house is already on the map but I some times feel sorry for the people living east of myself who lives in south east. Also... the bridge that is the farthest south, Is that the Sellwood Bridge or the Ross Island Bridge. The section of Reed covers about 12 neighborhoods including, Brooklyn, East Morland, West Moreland, Sellwood, Wood Stock, Errol, Brentwood, and Bellmont.


earlier drafts had the east side true to size, but i had to fudge some of the geography for the sake of a good map. sorry.
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