WWII:Poland [Quenched]

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Re: WWII:Poland [D] -V6- 12/4/09

Postby gho on Sun Apr 12, 2009 11:30 am

You have to clarify more the difference between the P.A.F symbol and the other symbols (maybe colour the symbols differently or something). I also think this map looks dull, it looks like you've left this map in the sun too long and its faded. I think you should brighten it up.
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Re: WWII:Poland [D] -V6- 12/4/09

Postby Qwert on Sun Apr 12, 2009 4:05 pm

First i must say that im satisfy that you apply mine sugestions abouth Military Symbols,its good and totaly correct.
Only small things-Stars in red army symbol need to be more centralised.

Lets speak abouth gameplay,if i understand correctly first who take P.A.F can bombard all commanders? These can be very advantage for first who take P.A.F,because some players is in big disantvage.
-Fedor Won Bock have best way to P>A>F.
-Edvard Eudz Smigly is in worst situation,and who start in these are,its best to take pistol and commit suicide
-Kovalev is in same situation like Edvard.
-All others is in much better situation.

Now i need to ask,its these you create on purpose,that some player start in hard situation,and some players have great start.
I belive that you need to change things,because now map is unbalanced to much.
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Re: WWII:Poland [D] -V6- 12/4/09

Postby samuelc812 on Sun Apr 12, 2009 4:41 pm

qwert wrote:First i must say that im satisfy that you apply mine sugestions abouth Military Symbols,its good and totaly correct.
Only small things-Stars in red army symbol need to be more centralised.

Lets speak abouth gameplay,if i understand correctly first who take P.A.F can bombard all commanders? These can be very advantage for first who take P.A.F,because some players is in big disantvage.
-Fedor Won Bock have best way to P>A>F.
-Edvard Eudz Smigly is in worst situation,and who start in these are,its best to take pistol and commit suicide
-Kovalev is in same situation like Edvard.
-All others is in much better situation.

Now i need to ask,its these you create on purpose,that some player start in hard situation,and some players have great start.
I belive that you need to change things,because now map is unbalanced to much.


Actually qwert, each player has an even chance of getting to the P.A.F ;) Tanks can attack up to 2 regions away, each Commander has access to their own tank which can attack the P.A.F, so everyone has equal access to the P.A.F ;)
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Re: WWII:Poland [D] -V6- 12/4/09

Postby Qwert on Sun Apr 12, 2009 4:51 pm

Actually qwert, each player has an even chance of getting to the P.A.F Tanks can attack up to 2 regions away, each Commander has access to their own tank which can attack the P.A.F, so everyone has equal access to the P.A.F

You mean he can jump for 2 territory every tank?
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Re: WWII:Poland [D] -V6- 12/4/09

Postby samuelc812 on Sun Apr 12, 2009 5:01 pm

qwert wrote:
Actually qwert, each player has an even chance of getting to the P.A.F Tanks can attack up to 2 regions away, each Commander has access to their own tank which can attack the P.A.F, so everyone has equal access to the P.A.F

You mean he can jump for 2 territory every tank?


It's the same as the Cavalry on 'Waterloo', yes tanks can range their assault up to 2 regions away, so that each commander has equal chance to reach the P.A.F.
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Re: WWII:Poland [D] -V6- 12/4/09

Postby AndyDufresne on Mon Apr 13, 2009 4:25 pm

Ahoy,

It's good to see that this map is finally coming together well. I'm enjoying the graphics of the map, the border, etc---though the arrows don't quite seem to fit with the map, and the icons stand out a little more than they should perhaps (it looks like they are not a part of the map---when compared to the tank. The icons don't seem integrated, if that makes sense, but rather "on top").

Also, the nonplayable tan area looks slightly strange---it might be the texture coming through more so because of the light color, than in the darker colors on the rest of the map.

The game play is a little above me in this map, lots of things going on that I've never been good at understanding and playing, ;), but I don't have any major gripes.

Good luck!


--Andy
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Re: WWII:Poland [D] -V6- 12/4/09

Postby TaCktiX on Wed Apr 15, 2009 12:18 am

So I'm here on assignment for this map. Read: satisfy me and you'll have a Graphics stamp shortly behind.

Here's my current gripes with the map (version 6 assumed):
- The framing (which is quite nice in concept) doesn't have a frame look to it. It's flat on the map as if it is part of the map, which I doubt you mean to do. Add some variety of subtle shadow or other pop-out effect to separate the game map from its frame.
- Edward Rydz-Smigly's one-way attack to PC03 looks stupid. Majorly so. Was one big attack line used before and it was rejected? If so, I suggest a reversion, as it looks like a marching army of arrows about to take over Poland all by itself, no tanks required.
- Agreed on Andy's note about the icons being "on top". Maybe partially integrate them into the texture on the territories.
- Could the P.A.F. graphic in the legend have the title of the territory as well (put below the graphic)? At first glance I was confused between the P.A.F. and the standard Polish commanders.
- The wording of the bonus for the P.A.F. needs to match the rest of the legend: "+5 bonus if held"
- The introduction to the map in the top right isn't proper English. Instead of a period, a comma would be much better (and decapitalize soon, of course).
- Is PC03 legitimately THAT big, as evidenced by the seemingly nameless green in the bottom left? I would suggest some border fudge to get it over the frame and attached to PC03 on the right.
- In the legend, try to simplify the sprites for the tanks, as the straight downscale makes the treads look really busy, and the gun barrels almost pencil-thin. This is my personal opinion, it's understandable if you don't want to change.
- The bullet-holes look good, but there isn't enough degradation in the legend to make them fit. The slightly destroyed title is a good step forward in that direction, but the rest of it is too perfect. If it helps in the destruction, separate the legend's framing from the map frame (same trick as my first point), and do some color desaturation, crack addition, etc. I understand the need to keep the legend readable, but there's plenty of pristine red to screw up.
- P.A.F. is missing its final period on the map. It's an acronym, so either all periods or no periods, at least in my experience.

That's all my graphics comments for now. I'll take a gameplay look at this next time to help with balancing, but I'm not officially on that duty. ;)

Consider your map
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Re: WWII: The Invasion of Poland -V3- 27/1/09

Postby iancanton on Fri Apr 17, 2009 8:09 am

samuelc812 wrote:I am going to add Barbed Wire within Poland to make it a little bit more even, as it is now Fedor von Bock has a big advantage i think ;)

the only barbed wire within poland that i can see is in the south. how does this handicap von bock, who has the only starting tank that can attack 3 polish commanders (all other starting tanks can attack only 1 polish commander)? between gc10 and the paf, u can add either some barbed wire or a non-tank region gc11; an alternative is to change von bock's starting tank into a non-tank region with 1 starting neutral, but to add neither extra barbed wire nor gc11 - this lets von bock keep his positional advantage (especially in spoils games) while not letting him start with a tank.

consider making the non-important regions start with only 1 neutral, otherwise they risk being doomed to stay neutral in every game: sc07 is such a case. up the neutrals on the tanks and paf to 4 and 6 respectively, while reducing to 3 the number of troops on each start position: we want to avoid the possibility of an aggressive player 1, with 15 starting troops and lucky dice, being able to knock out an opposing commander in round 1.

the aircraft can "only bombard tanks". does this mean they cannot conquer tanks (or, indeed, anything at all)?

ian. :)
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Re: WWII:Poland [D] -V6- 12/4/09

Postby spiesr on Fri Apr 17, 2009 8:44 am

On the latest version of the map, Edward Rydz-Smigly seems to have lost his commander symbol.
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Re: WWII:Poland [D] -V6- 12/4/09

Postby TaCktiX on Thu Apr 23, 2009 3:16 am

What's the status on this map? I'm eager to give more feedback. :D
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Re: WWII:Poland [D] -V6- 12/4/09

Postby samuelc812 on Thu Apr 23, 2009 6:29 pm

TaCktiX wrote:What's the status on this map? I'm eager to give more feedback. :D


Sorry Guys,

I have wanted to get some serious work done on this map lately, but my laptop which has all my files on it, just stopped working the other day :( . The Hard Drive failed or something, so i have to get it replaced which could take me a couple of weeks, idk :|

And even then i'm not sure if all that was stored on there will still be on there when it does get fixed so i may have to restart from scratch which i've already done once, so that shouldn't be a problem.

Sometime next week i'll spend a day at uni on their computer's trying to get it together again. I have read all your comments and can't wait to make this map better :) So Sorry for the delay, a new draft shouldn't be too far away ;)

Kind Regards,
Sam
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Re: WWII:Poland [D] -V6- 12/4/09

Postby sailorseal on Sun Apr 26, 2009 12:49 pm

Just to start, I like the new bullet holes and the new Nazi symbol.
I do not see a need more that insane use of arrows to connect those territories. I also see big problems with the starting positions being so close. I am not sure that so many of them will work, so close together
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Re: WWII:Poland [D] -V6- 12/4/09

Postby samuelc812 on Tue Apr 28, 2009 1:44 am

Okay i've started from scratch and i must say it will look a lot different to what is currently displayed in version 6. So brace yourselves :lol: but i hope you will like it better :) Next version should come in the next few days...
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Re: WWII:Poland [D] -V6- 12/4/09

Postby Teflon Kris on Tue Apr 28, 2009 2:12 am

I like your perseverence Sam.

I look forward to the next version - this map is too good to lose!
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Re: WWII:Poland [D] -V6- 12/4/09

Postby samuelc812 on Mon May 04, 2009 3:53 am

Voila! :D Hopefully it's an improvement, and remember i restarted from SCRATCH so be nice ;)

Click image to enlarge.
image


Changes V7:
  • Restarted from scratch :shock:
  • New Border
  • Nicer Barbed Wire
  • New Tanks and Planes
  • Balanced Gameplay more
    • Added barbed wire between SC04 and Stanislaw Maczek so Vasily Chuikov can only reach 1 polish commander from his starting tank. Also Fedor von Bock no longer has a starting tank which solves his big advantage of having access to all three commanders and the P.A.F. he now only has access to 1 commander and the P.A.F.
    • Added neutrals to tanks and P.A.F.
  • There is probably more stuff but yeah those are the main changes :)

TaCktiX
So I'm here on assignment for this map. Read: satisfy me and you'll have a Graphics stamp shortly behind.
Glad to have you looking after my map :)

Here's my current gripes with the map (version 6 assumed):
- The framing (which is quite nice in concept) doesn't have a frame look to it. It's flat on the map as if it is part of the map, which I doubt you mean to do. Add some variety of subtle shadow or other pop-out effect to separate the game map from its frame.
Scrapped the border and went with a different design, it's a lot easier to work with and it looks a lot better as well IMO
- Edward Rydz-Smigly's one-way attack to PC03 looks stupid. Majorly so. Was one big attack line used before and it was rejected? If so, I suggest a reversion, as it looks like a marching army of arrows about to take over Poland all by itself, no tanks required.
Yeah i know :lol:
- Agreed on Andy's note about the icons being "on top". Maybe partially integrate them into the texture on the territories.
Hopefully V7 clears this up?
- Could the P.A.F. graphic in the legend have the title of the territory as well (put below the graphic)? At first glance I was confused between the P.A.F. and the standard Polish commanders.
Done
- The wording of the bonus for the P.A.F. needs to match the rest of the legend: "+5 bonus if held"
Left out the word "bonus" but hopefully that's ok
- The introduction to the map in the top right isn't proper English. Instead of a period, a comma would be much better (and decapitalize soon, of course).
Fixed
- Is PC03 legitimately THAT big, as evidenced by the seemingly nameless green in the bottom left? I would suggest some border fudge to get it over the frame and attached to PC03 on the right.
Not sure what you mean here
- In the legend, try to simplify the sprites for the tanks, as the straight downscale makes the treads look really busy, and the gun barrels almost pencil-thin. This is my personal opinion, it's understandable if you don't want to change.
Changed the tanks so hopefully that rectifies that problem
- The bullet-holes look good, but there isn't enough degradation in the legend to make them fit. The slightly destroyed title is a good step forward in that direction, but the rest of it is too perfect. If it helps in the destruction, separate the legend's framing from the map frame (same trick as my first point), and do some color desaturation, crack addition, etc. I understand the need to keep the legend readable, but there's plenty of pristine red to screw up.
Got rid of the bullet holes, don't think they added anything to the map anyway really
- P.A.F. is missing its final period on the map. It's an acronym, so either all periods or no periods, at least in my experience.
Fixed

That's all my graphics comments for now. I'll take a gameplay look at this next time to help with balancing, but I'm not officially on that duty. ;)
Thankyou TaCktiX :)

iancanton
samuelc812 wrote:I am going to add Barbed Wire within Poland to make it a little bit more even, as it is now Fedor von Bock has a big advantage i think ;)

the only barbed wire within poland that i can see is in the south. how does this handicap von bock, who has the only starting tank that can attack 3 polish commanders (all other starting tanks can attack only 1 polish commander)? between gc10 and the paf, u can add either some barbed wire or a non-tank region gc11; an alternative is to change von bock's starting tank into a non-tank region with 1 starting neutral, but to add neither extra barbed wire nor gc11 - this lets von bock keep his positional advantage (especially in spoils games) while not letting him start with a tank.
Changed von Bock's staring territ to a non-tank territ however left it with 4 neutrals like every other starting territ

consider making the non-important regions start with only 1 neutral, otherwise they risk being doomed to stay neutral in every game: sc07 is such a case. up the neutrals on the tanks and paf to 4 and 6 respectively, while reducing to 3 the number of troops on each start position: we want to avoid the possibility of an aggressive player 1, with 15 starting troops and lucky dice, being able to knock out an opposing commander in round 1.
Made non-important regions 1 neutral - upped the neutral on tanks and P.A.F.to 4 and 6 respectfully - The 9 that was displayed on the starting positions in V6 reflected how many armies they would have there once they deployed, changed to 3 to avoid anymore confusion

the aircraft can "only bombard tanks". does this mean they cannot conquer tanks (or, indeed, anything at all)?
Correct. Aircraft can only bombard tanks, they cannot conquer

ian. :)
Thanks ian :)

spiesr
On the latest version of the map, Edward Rydz-Smigly seems to have lost his commander symbol.
Fixed

sailorseal
Just to start, I like the new bullet holes and the new Nazi symbol.
I do not see a need more that insane use of arrows to connect those territories. I also see big problems with the starting positions being so close. I am not sure that so many of them will work, so close together
Scrapped the bullet holes sorry - I know what you mean about the arrows :lol: changed it - I don't see any major problems with starting positions, please explain?
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Re: WWII:Poland [D] -V7- 4/5/09 - Gameplay

Postby TaCktiX on Mon May 04, 2009 8:40 am

Is it just me, or is this update made of win? Virtually everything you could improve on, you did. Bravo, sir, bravo. In the interests of doing my job, however, here's a few nitpicks.

The gray spots: I know they are countries in some regard, and the fact that they are unnamed denotes that they aren't playable (the bottom left one looked a lot like PC03, hence my comment about it). Any chance of noting what country they are a part of to give some further location, and to fill up the obvious dead space?

You seem undecided on where to put the bold lines for different areas. Either that, or PC03's lines are accidental. I know you're trying to note the specialness of PC03, but that's just confusing when delimiting key areas, particularly in comparison to the rest of the "commander zones". The same can be said of NG02 and NG01.

SU01/SU03's border lines (and SU04/SU03) look a bit too scrawled. Perhaps change them around a little so they don't look so "weak" in comparison the other ones around the map?

The south flowers (for lack of a better term on the golden thingies) have zero depth. Any chance of adding some upside-down shadow or some bigger bevel to fix this?
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Re: WWII:Poland [D] -V7- 4/5/09 - Gameplay

Postby the.killing.44 on Mon May 04, 2009 7:30 pm

Good lord. I hadn't seen your update. I just said to tack.
the.killing.44››› says: (8:17:10 PM)
oh good lord
i didnt see latest poland
holy shit!!!!!!!

That sums it up. =D>

I can't really comment on the gameplay side of things, but graphically I only have a couple quarrels:
1. the black blotches on the barbed wire. Johannes Blaskowitz —› NG02 seems the best way to go for it.
2. I'm pretty sure those tanks aren't WWII-era ;)
3. The planes are one-wing gunned? lol
4. If you're going to shade P.A.F. I'd do it even more — atm it's only a little noticeable which defeats the purpose.
5. Just as a note for the future, could you put the co-ords in the flag directly under the name? That'd both look nice and be most effective.

I'm stunned by this, really. Great job sam. "Epic win."
.44
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Re: WWII:Poland [D] -V7- 4/5/09 - Gameplay

Postby the.killing.44 on Mon May 04, 2009 7:58 pm

Sorry to double post but re: your wall post …

… if you took these images and modified them (colors, size (duh!), POV, etc.) then I think you could almost use 'em directly, even if you need some tracing:

German King Tiger (cropping and colors)
show


Russian T-34 (cropping, POV, colors)
show

It might be best to take these in grayscale(?)

.44

P.S. Image:
Click image to enlarge.
image
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Re: WWII:Poland [D] -V7- 4/5/09 - Gameplay

Postby samuelc812 on Mon May 04, 2009 8:15 pm

Thanks mate i'll try that ;)
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Re: WWII:Poland [D] -V7- 4/5/09 - Gameplay

Postby iancanton on Thu May 07, 2009 5:31 pm

i like this update a lot. the only thing i can see of concern is that von bock's gc10 can be attacked by 4 starting tanks and he can't always easily return the attack. maybe gc10 can be reduced to 2 or 3 neutrals to compensate? i'm virtually ready to stamp the gameplay but, rather than rush the job before i go away for a week's holiday, i'll hand the stamp to one of my able deputies for a second opinion.

ian. :)
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Re: WWII:Poland [D] -V7- 4/5/09 - Gameplay

Postby samuelc812 on Thu May 07, 2009 5:41 pm

iancanton wrote:i like this update a lot. the only thing i can see of concern is that von bock's gc10 can be attacked by 4 starting tanks and he can't always easily return the attack. maybe gc10 can be reduced to 2 or 3 neutrals to compensate? i'm virtually ready to stamp the gameplay but, rather than rush the job before i go away for a week's holiday, i'll hand the stamp to one of my able deputies for a second opinion.

ian. :)


That's a good point ian thanks, i'll lower it to 3 as 2 sounds too low.. Good points thankyou ian :)

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Re: WWII:Poland [D] -V7- 4/5/09 - Gameplay

Postby samuelc812 on Fri May 08, 2009 12:57 am

Well here is Version 8, i made a few tweaks as follows:

Click image to enlarge.
image


Changes Version 8
  • Changed Tanks and Planes
  • Labelled the un-playable areas
  • Changed GC10 from 4 neutrals to 3
  • Made the green of the P.A.F. more prominent
  • Embossed the floral decoration more and added drop shadow
  • Made all territory borders the same thickness
  • S04 is now PC04 as i discovered that area is not part of Slovakia, it is in fact Hungary like PC03 where the Polish pulled back to.


TaCktiX
Is it just me, or is this update made of win? Virtually everything you could improve on, you did. Bravo, sir, bravo. In the interests of doing my job, however, here's a few nitpicks.
I was hoping it was made of win :P

The gray spots: I know they are countries in some regard, and the fact that they are unnamed denotes that they aren't playable (the bottom left one looked a lot like PC03, hence my comment about it). Any chance of noting what country they are a part of to give some further location, and to fill up the obvious dead space?
Done

You seem undecided on where to put the bold lines for different areas. Either that, or PC03's lines are accidental. I know you're trying to note the specialness of PC03, but that's just confusing when delimiting key areas, particularly in comparison to the rest of the "commander zones". The same can be said of NG02 and NG01.
Made all the lines the same boldness

SU01/SU03's border lines (and SU04/SU03) look a bit too scrawled. Perhaps change them around a little so they don't look so "weak" in comparison the other ones around the map?
Don't know if this has been fixed by making all the lines the same boldness, tell me if there is any more concern with this

The south flowers (for lack of a better term on the golden thingies) have zero depth. Any chance of adding some upside-down shadow or some bigger bevel to fix this?
Done

the.killing.44
I can't really comment on the gameplay side of things, but graphically I only have a couple quarrels:
1. the black blotches on the barbed wire. Johannes Blaskowitz —› NG02 seems the best way to go for it.
Not sure what you're saying here?
2. I'm pretty sure those tanks aren't WWII-era ;)
3. The planes are one-wing gunned? lol
Changed them both
4. If you're going to shade P.A.F. I'd do it even more — atm it's only a little noticeable which defeats the purpose.
Done
5. Just as a note for the future, could you put the co-ords in the flag directly under the name? That'd both look nice and be most effective.
Not sure what you mean here either, please elaborate :)

I'm stunned by this, really. Great job sam. "Epic win."
.44
Thanks
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Re: WWII:Poland [D] -V8- 8/5/09 - Gameplay

Postby alexandrois on Sat May 09, 2009 10:46 am

This is amazing. the only tiny flaw in it as i see it is that couldn't the soviet side be really red as in even maybe a scrlet red and fade as it gets into the center and the nazi side jet black and then the black can fade as it reaches the center.
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Re: WWII:Poland [D] -V8- 8/5/09 - Gameplay

Postby samuelc812 on Sat May 09, 2009 4:32 pm

alexandrois wrote:This is amazing. the only tiny flaw in it as i see it is that couldn't the soviet side be really red as in even maybe a scrlet red and fade as it gets into the center and the nazi side jet black and then the black can fade as it reaches the center.


That's a great idea mate thanks, i'll make the colours more prominent in the next version ;)
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Re: WWII:Poland [D] -V8- 8/5/09 - Gameplay

Postby alexandrois on Sun May 10, 2009 5:59 am

Hey, soz to be a bit annoying but can you name the sea in the top left?
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