Gilgamesh; Coordinates on pg 20

Care to peruse completed maps? Take a stroll through the Atlas.

Moderators: Cartographers, Global Moderators

Forum rules
Please read the Community Guidelines before posting.

Re: Gilgamesh; bull of heaven, pg 3

Postby oaktown on Wed Jan 21, 2009 10:03 am

gimil wrote:Wht not move the contient legends to the bottom and have them in a horizontal line. On that orange section you can 7 brikes making it prefect to fit your legends there. Move the challenges text to undernearth the title and make the title area a little bigger. That will reduce the busyness of the bottom left that benn was talking about.

I was actually toying with that idea recently.... the reason I didn't do it is that the solid colors along the top and bottom of the map do a lot to help convey the sense that this entire thing is part of a wall, which I think the image needs more - not less - of. I'll think more on this, however, as it would open up the bottom of the map nicely.

The story behind the Bull of Heaven goes something like this... Gilgamesh and Enkidu walk into the great forest to face Humbaba, the protector of the forests. They call Humbaba out and kill him, angering the gods, who then send the Bull of Heaven (believed to be a physical manifestation of drought) to the walls of Uruk. Scores of men are killed by the Bull before Gilgamesh and Enkidu defeat it, but in doing do Enkidu is mortally wounded. Enkidu's death sends Gilgamesh into a existential tailspin, yada yada yada.

So - how does one convey that on a CC map? It seems as if the Bull really isn't a part of a region, and should really only be able to be defeated by Gilgamesh (Ururk), but I guess there's no reason that the Bull can't hit Uruk back. For that matter, I guess the Bull could hit any territory, but perhaps only be attacked BY Uruk.

Ooh, here's a thought - what if the Bull can bombard ANY of the great cities, but only be attacked by Uruk? That would give it significant strategic value.
User avatar
Captain oaktown
 
Posts: 4552
Joined: Sun Dec 03, 2006 9:24 pm
Location: majorcommand
Medals: 30
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (1)
Fog of War Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (1) General Achievement (1) Map Contribution (12)
General Contribution (5)

Re: Gilgamesh; bull of heaven, pg 3

Postby ZeakCytho on Wed Jan 21, 2009 2:57 pm

oaktown wrote:So - how does one convey that on a CC map? It seems as if the Bull really isn't a part of a region, and should really only be able to be defeated by Gilgamesh (Ururk), but I guess there's no reason that the Bull can't hit Uruk back. For that matter, I guess the Bull could hit any territory, but perhaps only be attacked BY Uruk.

Ooh, here's a thought - what if the Bull can bombard ANY of the great cities, but only be attacked by Uruk? That would give it significant strategic value.


It's a nice idea, but I think it would be Uruk far too powerful. If you hold Uruk (and thus bull of heaven) early in the game, you can stop anyone else from getting the city bonus.

So, perhaps start it with 4 or 5 neutrals?
User avatar
Captain ZeakCytho
 
Posts: 1251
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2007 4:36 pm
Medals: 18
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (2) Fog of War Achievement (1)
Speed Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (3) Map Contribution (2) General Contribution (1)

Re: Gilgamesh; bull of heaven, pg 3

Postby Natewolfman on Wed Jan 21, 2009 9:09 pm

oaktown wrote:The story behind the Bull of Heaven goes something like this... Gilgamesh and Enkidu walk into the great forest to face Humbaba, the protector of the forests. They call Humbaba out and kill him, angering the gods, who then send the Bull of Heaven (believed to be a physical manifestation of drought) to the walls of Uruk. Scores of men are killed by the Bull before Gilgamesh and Enkidu defeat it, but in doing do Enkidu is mortally wounded. Enkidu's death sends Gilgamesh into a existential tailspin, yada yada yada.

So - how does one convey that on a CC map? It seems as if the Bull really isn't a part of a region, and should really only be able to be defeated by Gilgamesh (Ururk), but I guess there's no reason that the Bull can't hit Uruk back. For that matter, I guess the Bull could hit any territory, but perhaps only be attacked BY Uruk.

this sounds like its own map... lol
User avatar
Sergeant 1st Class Natewolfman
 
Posts: 4638
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2007 6:37 pm
Location: omaha, NE
Medals: 75
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (3) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (2) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (2)
Speed Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (3) Tournament Achievement (11) General Achievement (2)
Clan Achievement (2) Tournament Contribution (30) General Contribution (1)

Re: Gilgamesh; bull of heaven, pg 3

Postby rjz115dude on Thu Jan 22, 2009 5:34 pm

i like this map, i would definatly play on this map...its not completely complicated and it's not overwhelmingly simple. I don't like the arrows though, i think you could find a different way to show that. And i think it would be better if you made the mountains all the same color, or at least just make them mountain colors, because i dont really like the blue mountains...just something to think about, and i can definatly see this map appearing on conquer club soon
Sergeant 1st Class rjz115dude
 
Posts: 52
Joined: Sun Dec 07, 2008 7:10 pm
Medals: 7
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (1) Assassin Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (3)

Re: Gilgamesh; bull of heaven, pg 3

Postby oaktown on Sun Feb 01, 2009 2:02 pm

Click image to enlarge.
image

The concerns about making the Bull, and thus Uruk, too powerful did not fall on deaf ears. The Bull is now a standard starting territory with only one attack route - Uruk. This gives uruk some advantage in that it is a city AND it controls access to that challenge, but does not give it unearthly powers across the board.

Moved the legend info around - I think this makes more sense.
User avatar
Captain oaktown
 
Posts: 4552
Joined: Sun Dec 03, 2006 9:24 pm
Location: majorcommand
Medals: 30
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (1)
Fog of War Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (1) General Achievement (1) Map Contribution (12)
General Contribution (5)

Re: Gilgamesh; pg 4

Postby MrBenn on Sun Feb 01, 2009 5:20 pm

Image
Welcome to the Foundry Proper... Onwards and Upwards!
Image
PB: 2661 | He's blue... If he were green he would die | No mod would be stupid enough to do that
User avatar
Lieutenant MrBenn
Retired Team Member
 
Posts: 7054
Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2007 9:32 am
Location: Off Duty
Medals: 65
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (3) Freestyle Achievement (2) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (2) Fog of War Achievement (3)
Speed Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (3) Tournament Achievement (2) General Achievement (6)
Clan Achievement (1) Map Contribution (7) Tournament Contribution (2) General Contribution (15)

Re: Gilgamesh; pg 4

Postby The Neon Peon on Sun Feb 01, 2009 9:47 pm

May I make a personal request that you change the image name while hosting to something without "game"in it. My computer blocks that, so I am unable to view or comment on this.
User avatar
Lieutenant The Neon Peon
 
Posts: 2342
Joined: Sat Jun 14, 2008 12:49 pm
Medals: 31
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (1) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (3) Manual Troops Achievement (2) Freestyle Achievement (3) Fog of War Achievement (3) Speed Achievement (3)
Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (1) Tournament Achievement (2) General Achievement (3)

Re: Gilgamesh; pg 4

Postby MrBenn on Mon Feb 02, 2009 3:52 am

Your computer blocks gilgamesh? That sounds more like a setup issue :lol:
Image
PB: 2661 | He's blue... If he were green he would die | No mod would be stupid enough to do that
User avatar
Lieutenant MrBenn
Retired Team Member
 
Posts: 7054
Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2007 9:32 am
Location: Off Duty
Medals: 65
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (3) Freestyle Achievement (2) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (2) Fog of War Achievement (3)
Speed Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (3) Tournament Achievement (2) General Achievement (6)
Clan Achievement (1) Map Contribution (7) Tournament Contribution (2) General Contribution (15)

Re: Gilgamesh; bull of heaven, pg 3

Postby yeti_c on Sat Feb 07, 2009 3:32 pm

herschal wrote:42 posts and already an advanced draft?? It is good but I think you need a few more peoples opinions before giving it a stamp. And only 3 updates can hardly be called advanced. There are other maps in here with 10 pages of critisism and they are not even advanced drafts. Just because he is an experieced map maker and a cartographer doesn't mean he can get special treatment.
Don't get me wrong though, I love the map!


Edit: I forgot that this was a competition entry and received some vetting there. That makes me less annoied but I still think it should have been in here a little longer.


I have to say I completely disagree with all of this post.

C.
Image
Highest score : 2297
User avatar
Lieutenant yeti_c
 
Posts: 9670
Joined: Thu Jan 04, 2007 9:02 am
Medals: 46
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (1)
Assassin Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (3) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (3)
General Achievement (1) Map Contribution (13) Tournament Contribution (1) General Contribution (10)

Re: Gilgamesh; bull of heaven, pg 3

Postby oaktown on Sat Feb 07, 2009 4:15 pm

yeti_c wrote:
herschal wrote:42 posts and already an advanced draft?? It is good but I think you need a few more peoples opinions before giving it a stamp. And only 3 updates can hardly be called advanced. There are other maps in here with 10 pages of critisism and they are not even advanced drafts. Just because he is an experieced map maker and a cartographer doesn't mean he can get special treatment.
Don't get me wrong though, I love the map!


Edit: I forgot that this was a competition entry and received some vetting there. That makes me less annoied but I still think it should have been in here a little longer.


I have to say I completely disagree with all of this post.

I assume that includes the part where herschal said he loves this map? :-s ;)
User avatar
Captain oaktown
 
Posts: 4552
Joined: Sun Dec 03, 2006 9:24 pm
Location: majorcommand
Medals: 30
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (1)
Fog of War Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (1) General Achievement (1) Map Contribution (12)
General Contribution (5)

Re: Gilgamesh; pg 4

Postby Beko the Great on Sat Feb 07, 2009 5:22 pm

Oh! Thank you Oaktown! Thank you very much to keep this Idea alive! I'm so fan of sumerian and ancien t mesopotamia I was very sad when this map was taken away from centerscape... but I think it was better, this map will have a unique gameplay, I'm very hopeful to see very soon!
User avatar
Major Beko the Great
 
Posts: 793
Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2007 3:27 am
Location: Best Score: 3372 pts
Medals: 40
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (3)
Speed Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Beta Map Achievement (1)
Battle Royale Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (4) Tournament Achievement (6) Tournament Contribution (5)

Re: Gilgamesh; pg 4

Postby Aline_Cedrac on Sat Feb 07, 2009 5:24 pm

Beko the Great wrote:Oh! Thank you Oaktown! Thank you very much to keep this Idea alive! I'm so fan of sumerian and ancien t mesopotamia I was very sad when this map was taken away from centerscape... but I think it was better, this map will have a unique gameplay, I'm very hopeful to see very soon!


I agree with you, dear Beko the Great! :oops: Thank you Oaktown, for making this fantasy of some come true! Good luck with everything! You can count with my help and support, if needed!
User avatar
Colonel Aline_Cedrac
 
Posts: 52
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 12:01 pm
Location: Portugal!
Medals: 15
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (2) Terminator Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (2) Cross-Map Achievement (1)
Beta Map Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (3) Tournament Achievement (2) Tournament Contribution (1)

Re: Gilgamesh; pg 4

Postby oaktown on Mon Feb 09, 2009 11:47 pm

Click image to enlarge.
image


Nothing fancy in this update - I just wanted to clean some crap up. Regions extend off the map (looks cleaner), mountains fit some region borders better, etc.

The Neon Peon wrote:May I make a personal request that you change the image name while hosting to something without "game"in it. My computer blocks that, so I am unable to view or comment on this.

Odd request, but granted. We now have the epic of Gilgamsh.
User avatar
Captain oaktown
 
Posts: 4552
Joined: Sun Dec 03, 2006 9:24 pm
Location: majorcommand
Medals: 30
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (1)
Fog of War Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (1) General Achievement (1) Map Contribution (12)
General Contribution (5)

Re: Gilgamesh; pg 4

Postby ZeakCytho on Tue Feb 10, 2009 12:12 am

Gameplay wise, I think you may have undervalued Subartu. It has 9 territories and 6 borders, but is only a +5? It has an implicit +1, because there are 3 great cities in it, but even so, I think +6 would be a better base value (so it's +7 total). Sumer is also a bit undervalued - one less territory, 1 less border - I think it should be a +5 base (+1 for having 3 cities added on to that for a total of +6). Then Amorities, which is 2 less territories and 1 less border than Sumer, would have a more justified +4.

The other option would be to bring Amorities down to +3. But I think this map has enough small bonuses, between Wilds, Elam, Challenges, and Cities.
User avatar
Captain ZeakCytho
 
Posts: 1251
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2007 4:36 pm
Medals: 18
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (2) Fog of War Achievement (1)
Speed Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (3) Map Contribution (2) General Contribution (1)

Re: Gilgamesh; pg 4

Postby lt_oddball on Tue Feb 10, 2009 8:41 am

for sure you couldn't find better actual historic province names than
"garden of the gods, the waters of death and the great darkness, and bull of heaven " ???
You make it like a cheap lord of the rings map..:s
:sick:
Barbarus hic ego sum, quia non intellegor ulli.
User avatar
Major lt_oddball
 
Posts: 364
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2007 11:17 am
Location: Fortress Europe
Medals: 3
Standard Achievement (2) Ratings Achievement (1)

PreviousNext

Return to The Atlas

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests

Login