[Official] Centerscape/Midgard REVAMP [Quenched]

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Re: [Official] Centerscape REVAMP - Refining the map

Postby edbeard on Tue Jan 20, 2009 11:41 pm

I dunno if that fits but Honah-Lee could be a territory by the sea instead of Liegon which I don't know what that is
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Re: [Official] Centerscape REVAMP - Refining the map

Postby RjBeals on Tue Jan 20, 2009 11:42 pm

the.killing.44 wrote:Oh I can totally see that as a tert on this map, ed:

"Puff the Magic"

Perfect :P .

.44


Or howabout Tiamat
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Re: [Official] Centerscape REVAMP - Refining the map

Postby djak. on Wed Jan 21, 2009 12:54 am

The key doesn't help if you're color-blind - how about naming the continents to something similar to one of the countries in it: Hubland, Cynici, Hamptons, Vegas, Nektar, Avallonis, Bad Country?

Maybe move the dragon at Sleab so that the mountains are solid and prevent access between Orka to Sleab.

Sentence caps instead of the wambly sTuDLY ALL CAPS.
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Re: [Official] Centerscape REVAMP - Refining the map

Postby MrBenn on Wed Jan 21, 2009 2:42 am

You're right in saying that this can go straight into the Main Foundry:
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And, as a revamp, you get the Gameplay stamp from the get-go, as we're only updating the graphics ;-)
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Re: [Official] Centerscape REVAMP - Refining the map

Postby MrBenn on Wed Jan 21, 2009 4:29 am

As far as territory names go, I always thought it would be nice to give another nod to Tolkien by naming territories after Characters from Middle Earth, but NOT the commonly known / obvious ones like Bilbo, Frodo, Gollum, Elrond etc...

For example, the region formerly known as Rohan could have territories in it named for the Kings of Rohan...
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Re: [Official] Centerscape REVAMP - Refining the map

Postby pamoa on Wed Jan 21, 2009 4:55 am

Nice job WidowMakers.
I love dragons, as said maybe one more.
Excellent title and keep at least one boat.
You could maybe add some waves in some of the lakes, the biggest ones...
Can we see a version with armies numbers.

MrBenn wrote:As far as territory names go, I always thought it would be nice to give another nod to Tolkien by naming territories after Characters from Middle Earth, but NOT the commonly known / obvious ones like Bilbo, Frodo, Gollum, Elrond etc...
For example, the region formerly known as Rohan could have territories in it named for the Kings of Rohan...

I'm pretty sure all names in Tolkien books are copyright protected, so I think it's better to avoid any problem in this revamp for copyright issue.
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Re: [Official] Centerscape REVAMP - Refining the map

Postby MrBenn on Wed Jan 21, 2009 3:26 pm

pamoa wrote:I'm pretty sure all names in Tolkien books are copyright protected, so I think it's better to avoid any problem in this revamp for copyright issue.


I can't believe that I've just looked this up...
Media Law wrote:In relation to character names, the general position is that there is no copyright in a name (whether invented or not). The courts have accordingly denied copyright protection to the names 'Kojak', 'James Bond' and 'Burberry'.
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Re: [Official] Centerscape REVAMP - Refining the map

Postby ZeakCytho on Wed Jan 21, 2009 3:28 pm

MrBenn wrote:
pamoa wrote:I'm pretty sure all names in Tolkien books are copyright protected, so I think it's better to avoid any problem in this revamp for copyright issue.


I can't believe that I've just looked this up...
Media Law wrote:In relation to character names, the general position is that there is no copyright in a name (whether invented or not). The courts have accordingly denied copyright protection to the names 'Kojak', 'James Bond' and 'Burberry'.


If Bond can't get copyright protection, then Frodo, Gandalf, etc. should be acceptable names. That being said, I don't think they'd make very good names. I'd prefer some more obscure references, ie Kings of Rohan.
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Re: [Official] Centerscape REVAMP - Refining the map

Postby Optimus Prime on Wed Jan 21, 2009 4:59 pm

Well, if they aren't copyrighted, you should definitely use some names from Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time as well. The names he gives the nations in those books are perfect for this sort of map. Let's see here. . . .

Dragonmount
Shadar Logoth
Caemlyn
Shienar
Saldaea
Tarabon
Amadacia
Altara
Ghealdan
Murandy
Tear
Illian
Cairhien
Arafel
Kandor
Andor

Those are just a few, there are some great city names that would work wonderfully as well. Perhaps each of the "continents" or whatever we are calling them these days could follow a naming convention from a popular fantasy series of some type?

You could use the following as a starting point for chosing which series to pick your names from:

The Lord of the Rings (series by J.R.R. Tolkien)
Wheel of Time (series by Robert Jordan)
Sword of Truth (series by Terry Goodkind)
Mistborn (trilogy by Brandon Sanderson) <-- personal favorite

I'm sure with some brainstorming we could come up with several others to use. I would totally be willing to volunteer to do some research and submit a good set of names for each continent using this pattern if you want me to WM. Or, if territory names are a no-no and we have to stick with character names my point still stands, and I can do the research using character names as well. :)
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Re: [Official] Centerscape REVAMP - Refining the map

Postby hecter on Wed Jan 21, 2009 6:55 pm

Honestly, how can a Middle Earth remake about dragons not have a territory named Smaug? It'd be tantamount to treason, really...
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Re: [Official] Centerscape REVAMP - Refining the map

Postby WidowMakers on Thu Jan 22, 2009 7:04 am

RjBeals wrote:Well first of all, thanks WM for taking this on. You've done good so far. Also, just because I had the layers in the PS file I gave you, doesn't mean you have to use them ;) Use whatever creative freedom you wish.

Thanks RJ. I will try to make this map as close to the winning entry as possible. I have no intention of trying to insert my own direction or design to change from that.
RjBeals wrote:But anyway - feel free to use me as a resource, I just didn't want added responsibility of another map to complete
Don’t worry, I plan to. ;-)
==============================================================================
DRAGON THEME is out (but we will still have dragons)
hecter wrote:I really like the title, I think that in order to have a dragon or serpent instead, it would have to be done *really* well in order to not look tacky and like you're over doing it. One thing I don't like is the boats way off there. If you were to replace them with something better suited (more fantastic), or take them away completely, I think that'd be better...
Well I have been thinking about the title and everything. Since I agree that the map will not be filled with dragons, calling the map the “Dragon Realm” is not a good idea. We can still use dragon names for places (maybe the Fire mountain region is home to the dragons) but making the theme dependent on them is not a good idea. The map needs to stay as close to the original winner as possible. Why there will be dragons and creatures, the map will not have dragons in the title.
edbeard wrote:I also disagree about more dragons. That's not what people voted for. The changes done so far are fine (except the dragon in the Death Swamp/Wastelands mountains which doesn't look good to me). The one on the legend looks awesome. The sea dragon is really cool too. Fix the third one. Maybe move it to somewhere that it isn't blocked by mountains. One more dragon other than that wouldn't hurt but any more and it could get cluttered. remember we need army counts on this too. The reason people voted for the map is the simplicity. Makes sure the newly added theme doesn't intrude on that.

RjBeals wrote:I really like the dragon wrapped around the legend color blocks. But I hope you don't over do it with the "dragons everywhere".
Exactly.
==============================================================================
BOATS
And as RJ said here
RjBeals wrote:Also, I kind of liked those ships. Maybe the one beside the legend does look a little cramped, but I hope we can at least keep the top one.

The boats stay. I will work on the legend. We really don’t know if the boat fits until we agree on the bonus region names.
==============================================================================
ONE-WAY ARROW
edbeard wrote:The one way arrow still needs more work. Perhaps make it larger (longer) so it is not solely hovering over the mountains. It kinda gets lost where it is now.
I will look into that arrow size
==============================================================================
MOUNTAIN COLORS
edbeard wrote:do we think these mountains might be better served being like the ones on Wales (the colours being all one type in one area) ?
Well here is the thing. The winning map had two tone colored mountains. I think it looks better with it that way as RJ made it. I don’t think adding another color to the mountains will help the look.
==============================================================================
TITLE
RjBeals wrote:I played around with that title - but was never satisfied, which is why I turned off the layer. But you've done a great job with it. I think what I didn't like was the Nordic symbol for the "A" in MIDGARD. I like the circle behind it. But I'm good either way.
OK I can mess with the symbol and title font. Like I said earlier, I think the word dragon in the title is too much and imply there need to be dragons everywhere.
I will mod the title to the 7 Kingdoms for now until we can find a better one or keep that.
==============================================================================
COLORS AND NAMES
RjBeals wrote:You can change colors to whatever you wish. The territory names also. Not too much though was put into them, because I was planning on getting some input from the foundry for that.
I think this will be the main focus of discussion and adjustment.

Once we get the sub title worked out (if we even need one) we can work on bonus region names and then territory names for those regions.
SO maybe the red bonus can be called Dragon Hordes instead of Fire Mountains. Etc, etc...

As far as colors go, I think they look great. Personally that I one of the reasons this map looks so good. The colors are awesome. I really only think they should be adjusted for colorblind issues and if at all possible another step be made to help differentiate them before colors are changed.

I will post a newer, less “dragony themed” version (but still with some dragons) and we can go from there.

Thanks for all of the input so far.

WM
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Re: [Official] Centerscape REVAMP - Refining the map

Postby rishaed on Thu Jan 22, 2009 10:17 am

ZeakCytho wrote:I also have a bit of trouble telling the difference between the Golden Fields and the Central Forest. I'd say swap the color, but that would ruin the whole color-named continents thing.

maybe for that could the green be darkened a little bit to add more contrast but not enough to really stick out like a sore thumb.
I really like the map though gj. :D
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Re: [Official] Centerscape REVAMP - Refining the map

Postby maritovw on Thu Jan 22, 2009 11:01 am

Optimus Prime wrote:You could use the following as a starting point for chosing which series to pick your names from:

The Lord of the Rings (series by J.R.R. Tolkien)
Wheel of Time (series by Robert Jordan)
Sword of Truth (series by Terry Goodkind)
Mistborn (trilogy by Brandon Sanderson)


I definitively like the idea of using Lord of the Rings character's names simply because this map once was Middle Earth... so all of us who saw one of our favorite maps fall apart can rejoice at having a great looking map with names from the fantastic world Tolkien once created... just my 2 cent...
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Re: [Official] Centerscape REVAMP - Refining the map

Postby pamoa on Thu Jan 22, 2009 11:45 am

Optimus Prime wrote:You could use the following as a starting point for chosing which series to pick your names from:

The Lord of the Rings (series by J.R.R. Tolkien)
Wheel of Time (series by Robert Jordan)
Sword of Truth (series by Terry Goodkind)
Mistborn (trilogy by Brandon Sanderson)


maritovw wrote:I definitively like the idea of using Lord of the Rings character's names simply because this map once was Middle Earth... so all of us who saw one of our favorite maps fall apart can rejoice at having a great looking map with names from the fantastic world Tolkien once created... just my 2 cent...


Why not giving each territory the name of the character most famous for that region
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Re: [Official] Centerscape REVAMP - Refining the map

Postby WidowMakers on Thu Jan 22, 2009 11:55 pm

OK here is the latest image and updates.
Changes:
    1) Title Name - Midgard: The 7 Kingdoms
    2) Made the 1-way arrow more pronounced
    3) Darkened the green to visually separate it from yellow (and fixed color of bridges and legend)
    4) Moved mountain Dragon
    5) Added waves to lakes
    6) Changed red bonus group name to Dragon Realm

To-Do:
    1) Maybe work on Title symbol again. I like the red circle thing but that is just me. I think it looks good. Any other supporters?
    2) Confirm/Decide Bonus group names
    3) After that, pick territory names
Large Version 3
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"88" Armies
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Last edited by WidowMakers on Fri Jan 23, 2009 12:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [Official] Centerscape REVAMP - Refining the map

Postby ZeakCytho on Fri Jan 23, 2009 12:00 am

2) Made the 1-way arrow more pronounced

I think you might have overdone it a little, but it's not a big deal.
3) Darkened the green to visually separate it from yellow (and fixed color of bridges and legend)

Looks good, thanks!
Maybe work on Title symbol again. I like the red circle thing but that is just me. I think it looks good. Any other supporters?

I think it's great as is.

This map could be quenched as soon as the territory names are decided :D
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Re: [Official] Centerscape REVAMP - Refining the map

Postby the.killing.44 on Fri Jan 23, 2009 12:01 am

I like the symbol but I'd make it more suitable to the theme — less polished, if you know what I mean. Also, I love all the little changes you made, but m comment on the symbol applies to the arrow as well — tone it down and make it more 2D.

This map is just great.

.44
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Re: [Official] Centerscape REVAMP (Midgard) Large v3 / page 2

Postby MrBenn on Fri Jan 23, 2009 1:46 am

Personally I liked the Celtic 'A' in the title... It feels a little bland now... The circle in the background looks fantastic, so leave that there - perhaps have a look at some other decorative typefaces for the A in the title... it added a bit of character, but I just thought there was a tiny bit too much space between the A and the G/R ;-)
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Re: [Official] Centerscape REVAMP (Midgard) Large v3 / page 2

Postby edbeard on Fri Jan 23, 2009 1:55 am

reposting image for the new page
Image


I'd prefer in the arrow was a little longer. I think the base of the triangle should be past the mountains themselves so it is quite evident. Especially if you're going to tone down the arrow like other people have said (though I disagree with that). Though, making the arrow longer might make it look freakish.
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Re: [Official] Centerscape REVAMP (Midgard) Large v3 / page 2

Postby rishaed on Fri Jan 23, 2009 10:25 am

title's perfect now widowmaker...of course that's only my opinion... :mrgreen:
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Re: [Official] Centerscape REVAMP - Refining the map

Postby hecter on Fri Jan 23, 2009 10:28 am

WidowMakers wrote:]1) Maybe work on Title symbol again. I like the red circle thing but that is just me. I think it looks good. Any other supporters?

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Re: [Official] Centerscape REVAMP - Refining the map

Postby WidowMakers on Sat Jan 24, 2009 1:24 am

hecter wrote:
WidowMakers wrote:]1) Maybe work on Title symbol again. I like the red circle thing but that is just me. I think it looks good. Any other supporters?

Me.

Me what?
    1) Me- I think the title needs work?
    2) Me- I think it looks good the way it is?

edbeard wrote:I'd prefer in the arrow was a little longer. I think the base of the triangle should be past the mountains themselves so it is quite evident. Especially if you're going to tone down the arrow like other people have said (though I disagree with that). Though, making the arrow longer might make it look freakish.
I think the arrow is too long right now and I really don't think making it bigger will improve the map. It is easy to see and when people are moving armies from that territory, it will be easier to spot.

As far as toning down the arrow, I will lessen the harshness and roughness of the bevel.

the.killing.44 wrote:I like the symbol but I'd make it more suitable to the theme — less polished, if you know what I mean. Also, I love all the little changes you made, but m comment on the symbol applies to the arrow as well — tone it down and make it more 2D.

This map is just great.

.44
I will look into a less polished circle symbol (I will keep the circle but make it more 2D less bevel). The arrow will be toned down as well.

MrBenn wrote:Personally I liked the Celtic 'A' in the title... It feels a little bland now... The circle in the background looks fantastic, so leave that there - perhaps have a look at some other decorative typefaces for the A in the title... it added a bit of character, but I just thought there was a tiny bit too much space between the A and the G/R ;-)
I will look into several symbols to replace the A.

Updates tomorrow hopefully (or today since it is 1:30 am for me)

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Re: [Official] Centerscape REVAMP (Midgard) Large v3 / page 2

Postby WidowMakers on Sat Jan 24, 2009 11:37 am

Large Version 4
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To do:
    1) Confirm Bonus region Names
    2) Confirm territory names
    3) do XML

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Re: [Official] Centerscape REVAMP (Midgard) Large v4 / page 1,3

Postby the.killing.44 on Sat Jan 24, 2009 12:08 pm

If the red is the "Dragon Realm," why not have one roaming the boundary mountains? Other than that I don't have much to say. Nice work toning everything down, and I think hecter was referring to the symbol, which you asked for supporters ;)

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Re: [Official] Centerscape REVAMP (Midgard) Large v4 / page 1,3

Postby WidowMakers on Sat Jan 24, 2009 12:57 pm

the.killing.44 wrote:If the red is the "Dragon Realm," why not have one roaming the boundary mountains? Other than that I don't have much to say. Nice work toning everything down, and I think hecter was referring to the symbol, which you asked for supporters ;)

.44
So switch the dragon and the sea serpent? How about that?

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