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Re: Jamaica [BETA] V31 adjustments for upload P28

Postby cairnswk on Sat Jan 30, 2010 8:30 pm

Please check this centering before re-sumbitting to lackattack for upload.

This is the adjustment for the All 3 Maroons +3 legend wording

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Click image to enlarge.
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http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s282 ... a_V31S.jpg

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s282 ... a_V31L.jpg

http://h1.ripway.com/cairnswk/_jamaicaV31.xml
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Re: Jamaica [BETA] V31 adjustments for upload P31

Postby ender516 on Sun Jan 31, 2010 1:27 am

I'm wondering why the Fort Rupert - Fort Augusta attack route is drawn with a unique style of double-headed arrow (almost like a start position/home-port connection). Shouldn't it simply look like another coastal route, drawn with dots? At a quick glance, I thought it might simply be a labelling line like those on the Church and Port Royal.
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Re: Jamaica [BETA] V31 adjustments for upload P31

Postby cairnswk on Sun Jan 31, 2010 3:31 am

ender516 wrote:I'm wondering why the Fort Rupert - Fort Augusta attack route is drawn with a unique style of double-headed arrow (almost like a start position/home-port connection). Shouldn't it simply look like another coastal route, drawn with dots? At a quick glance, I thought it might simply be a labelling line like those on the Church and Port Royal.


No it doesn't need to be drawn like yousay it should with dots. It hasn't been an issue for anyone else, and I am wondering If you wanted to be so pedantic about stuff like this, then why haven't you brought it up well before this beta stage.
It conveys clearly the message that that route is a two-way attack, and that is what is meant there.
If you thought it was a labelling line, then why have you idientified it as a double-headed arrow. :roll:
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Re: Jamaica [BETA] V31 adjustments for upload P31

Postby ender516 on Sun Jan 31, 2010 1:19 pm

cairnswk wrote:
ender516 wrote:I'm wondering why the Fort Rupert - Fort Augusta attack route is drawn with a unique style of double-headed arrow (almost like a start position/home-port connection). Shouldn't it simply look like another coastal route, drawn with dots? At a quick glance, I thought it might simply be a labelling line like those on the Church and Port Royal.


No it doesn't need to be drawn like yousay it should with dots. It hasn't been an issue for anyone else, and I am wondering If you wanted to be so pedantic about stuff like this, then why haven't you brought it up well before this beta stage.
It conveys clearly the message that that route is a two-way attack, and that is what is meant there.
If you thought it was a labelling line, then why have you idientified it as a double-headed arrow. :roll:

I initially thought it was a labelling line. Then I saw it was a double-headed arrow. Then I wondered why it was different from other connectors and what difference it might make. Aside from the dashed double-headed arrows making clear before play which are the starting positions, all your connectors have only one meaning: two-way attack. Okay, so there is no reason for a different connector and no reason it has to be the same as the others. I'm sorry I didn't notice it sooner, but it just as easily could have been someone who has never come into the Foundry and had the same question during beta play. The fact that it hasn't been an issue for anyone else could be used to turn away the first report of any comment, but I don't think it should be.

I picked up on this line when I was examining the centering as you suggested, and I didn't say it needed to be drawn with dots, I just asked (politely, I think). Some people like to be told about a little thing like this, because they may have missed it themselves and would rather change it. If you don't, there's no need to get huffy, I'm okay with that. 8-)
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Re: Jamaica [BETA] V31 adjustments for upload P31

Postby cairnswk on Sun Jan 31, 2010 3:38 pm

ender516 wrote:I picked up on this line when I was examining the centering as you suggested, and I didn't say it needed to be drawn with dots, I just asked (politely, I think). Some people like to be told about a little thing like this, because they may have missed it themselves and would rather change it. If you don't, there's no need to get huffy, I'm okay with that. 8-)


Shouldn't it simply look like another coastal route, drawn with dots?

The above implies to me that you think it should be drawn with dots.

If you think i'm huffy, you have no idea. :o
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Re: Jamaica [BETA] V31 adjustments for upload P31

Postby chipv on Sun Jan 31, 2010 3:50 pm

I'm about to put the schema check into the Wizard but on my local version I can see you need to remove the title tag, otherwise all good.

Don't need

Code: Select all
<title>Jamaica</title>
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Re: Jamaica [BETA] V31 adjustments for upload P31

Postby cairnswk on Sun Jan 31, 2010 3:57 pm

chipv wrote:I'm about to put the schema check into the Wizard but on my local version I can see you need to remove the title tag, otherwise all good.

Don't need

Code: Select all
<title>Jamaica</title>


Doesn't the title tage need to be there anymore?
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Re: Jamaica [BETA] V31 adjustments for upload P31

Postby chipv on Sun Jan 31, 2010 4:02 pm

cairnswk wrote:
chipv wrote:I'm about to put the schema check into the Wizard but on my local version I can see you need to remove the title tag, otherwise all good.

Don't need

Code: Select all
<title>Jamaica</title>


Doesn't the title tage need to be there anymore?


No, lack moved map information out of the map XMLs and stores them locally now.
So map XMLs only contains what is needed for the game engine.

If you put your XML through mapmaker you can see what I mean, same schema check,
but it will be in the Wizard imminently. This is the same set of checks that the official map XML checking does.
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Re: Jamaica [BETA] V31 adjustments for upload P31

Postby cairnswk on Sun Jan 31, 2010 4:42 pm

chipv wrote:...
No, lack moved map information out of the map XMLs and stores them locally now.
So map XMLs only contains what is needed for the game engine.

If you put your XML through mapmaker you can see what I mean, same schema check,
but it will be in the Wizard imminently. This is the same set of checks that the official map XML checking does.


title tage removed from the file. Thanks chipv :)

Files
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s282 ... a_V31S.jpg

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s282 ... a_V31L.jpg

http://h1.ripway.com/cairnswk/_jamaicaV31.xml
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Re: Jamaica [BETA] V31 adjustments for upload P31

Postby jwithington on Mon Feb 01, 2010 7:27 pm

I LOVE this map like I love the AOR maps. Very cool!

I will say this though: it feels kinda icky to get a bonus by collecting slaves. I wonder if we can change that somehow? I know it's late...but I wanted to say it.
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Re: jamacia beta

Postby jwithington on Mon Feb 01, 2010 7:29 pm

ender516 wrote:
cairnswk wrote:
eddie2 wrote:hi dont know if this is the right place for this but on the board it clearly states 3 troups for each marron but in play you have to have all 3 for a 3 bonus

no, this should be done in the map thread.
no, it states every maroon +3
that is taken as all maroons +3
no other way, that's how the foundry decided it to be worded. ;)

Well, I would agree with eddie2. "Every" could be read as "each" or "all". "All" has no such ambiguity in my eyes. Better yet, just say "3 Maroons +3". You can't get clearer than that, and it's consistent with phrases like "2 Bumbo (Rum)" and "Any 2 Food". Sorry to press you, cairnswk, but the Foundry's not done with you yet. :o ;)


I also misunderstood this wording. All would make more sense; "every" implied "each." to me.
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Re: jamacia beta

Postby natty dread on Mon Feb 01, 2010 7:31 pm

jwithington wrote:
I also misunderstood this wording. All would make more sense; "every" implied "each." to me.


Already changed.
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Re: Jamaica [BETA] V31 adjustments for upload P31

Postby cairnswk on Tue Feb 02, 2010 3:18 am

jwithington wrote:I LOVE this map like I love the AOR maps. Very cool!

I will say this though: it feels kinda icky to get a bonus by collecting slaves. I wonder if we can change that somehow? I know it's late...but I wanted to say it.


Yes i agree it is icky collecting slaves.
But it is Jamaican history, and a worthy part of history to remember to ensure it doesn't happen again. :)
That i will not change. The slaves were used on the sugar plantations, a part of history that is common even with those Deep Southern States of the USA. :)
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Re: Jamaica [BETA] V31 adjustments for upload P31

Postby cgblack on Wed Feb 03, 2010 4:42 pm

Game 6358825

We each started on one ship each with 3 units. Ships auto deploy two each turn, but the only adjecent terit starts with five neutrals. So more than likely no one attacks for the first three or four turns. Is this intentional?

My apologies if this has already been mentioned in the thread.
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Re: Jamaica [BETA] V31 adjustments for upload P31

Postby eddie2 on Wed Feb 03, 2010 5:20 pm

also is there any reason wy port antonio has 6 troups on compared to others having 5
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Re: Jamaica [BETA] V31 adjustments for upload P31

Postby cairnswk on Thu Feb 04, 2010 3:12 am

cgblack wrote:Game 6358825

We each started on one ship each with 3 units. Ships auto deploy two each turn, but the only adjecent terit starts with five neutrals. So more than likely no one attacks for the first three or four turns. Is this intentional?

My apologies if this has already been mentioned in the thread.


Yes it is intentional...to stop games ending in very few rounds.

eddie2 wrote:also is there any reason wy port antonio has 6 troups on compared to others having 5


Yes just to balance neutrals and the attacks from wherever.
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Re: Jamaica [BETA] V31 adjustments for upload P31

Postby eddie2 on Thu Feb 04, 2010 3:31 am

just that people would risk a 6 on 5 but 6 on 6 is this not putting that player at a disadvantage as if you take it it puts your troup count up to 5 for the next shot but person on france stands less of a chance.
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Re: Jamaica [BETA] V31 adjustments for upload P31

Postby cgblack on Thu Feb 04, 2010 5:20 pm

I didn't realize that you get the minimum three troops per turn as well, the "Standard +1 for three territories = N/A" lead me to believe you didn't. No real justification as to why I thought that, I just did.

So it only delays a turn or so (depending on how brave, or stupid ;) your are).
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Re: Jamaica [BETA] V31 adjustments for upload P31

Postby cairnswk on Sat Feb 06, 2010 1:21 am

eddie2 wrote:just that people would risk a 6 on 5 but 6 on 6 is this not putting that player at a disadvantage as if you take it it puts your troup count up to 5 for the next shot but person on france stands less of a chance.

would people risk 6 on 5?
i think they'd be fools if they did that.
so to me, those odds don't stack up. 6 on 5 or 6 on 6 are both the same odds....disastrous.
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Re: Jamaica [BETA] V31 adjustments for upload P31

Postby cairnswk on Sat Feb 06, 2010 1:35 am

cgblack wrote:I didn't realize that you get the minimum three troops per turn as well, the "Standard +1 for three territories = N/A" lead me to believe you didn't. No real justification as to why I thought that, I just did.

So it only delays a turn or so (depending on how brave, or stupid ;) your are).


In normal games bonus structure, you get:
+3 for holding 9 regions or less
+4 for holding 12 regions
+5 for holding 15 regions
etc.

the max and min you get in this map is +3.
people expect that you'll always get +3...that is why the legend states
"standard +1 for 3 territories = N/A"
unfortunately there in no more room to word it differently. :(
and i doubt if anyone has questioned this before you.
Thanks :)
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Re: Jamaica [BETA] V32

Postby cairnswk on Sat Feb 06, 2010 2:44 am

cairnswk wrote:
cgblack wrote:I didn't realize that you get the minimum three troops per turn as well, the "Standard +1 for three territories = N/A" lead me to believe you didn't. No real justification as to why I thought that, I just did.

So it only delays a turn or so (depending on how brave, or stupid ;) your are).


In normal games bonus structure, you get:
+3 for holding 9 regions or less
+4 for holding 12 regions
+5 for holding 15 regions
etc.

the max and min you get in this map is +3.
people expect that you'll always get +3...that is why the legend states
"standard +1 for 3 territories = N/A"
unfortunately there in no more room to word it differently. :(
and i doubt if anyone has questioned this before you.
Thanks :)


ON the basis of the above, i have changed the bonus wording for that apsect to
"For holding any number of territories" +3
because that's just what happens.

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Click image to enlarge.
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http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s282 ... a_V32S.jpg

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s282 ... a_V32L.jpg

http://h1.ripway.com/cairnswk/_jamaicaV31.xml
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Re: Jamaica [BETA] V31 adjustments for upload P31

Postby eddie2 on Sat Feb 06, 2010 3:21 am

cairnswk wrote:
eddie2 wrote:just that people would risk a 6 on 5 but 6 on 6 is this not putting that player at a disadvantage as if you take it it puts your troup count up to 5 for the next shot but person on france stands less of a chance.

would people risk 6 on 5?
i think they'd be fools if they did that.
so to me, those odds don't stack up. 6 on 5 or 6 on 6 are both the same odds....disastrous.


yes it is worth a single shot if you get a double win carry on because if you get out you get plus 2 bonus at the start covering the troups you had
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Re: Jamaica [BETA] V32

Postby ender516 on Sun Feb 07, 2010 10:25 am

cairnswk wrote:ON the basis of the above, i have changed the bonus wording for that apsect to
"For holding any number of territories" +3
because that's just what happens.

You're right, that is a brilliant solution. Clear and concise :)
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Re: Jamaica [BETA] V31 adjustments for upload P31

Postby iancanton on Thu Feb 18, 2010 3:31 am

cairnswk wrote:
eddie2 wrote:also is there any reason wy port antonio has 6 troups on compared to others having 5

Yes just to balance neutrals and the attacks from wherever.

to be more specific, hamlin has the advantage of being able to take manchioneal, then a number of single neutrals (morant, yallah's bay, gordon town and possibly kingston harbour), with only morgan able to stop him easily. the 6-neutral on port antonio was designed to slow down hamlin's advance.

even so, in the 9 finished 1v1 games that used the same settings as a game that cairnswk and i played recently (standard auto-placement sequential flat rate spoils unlimited reinforcements sunny), the winner started with hamlin in 8: a win rate of 89%! the winner started with mota in 7 of these games. the other positions each won 2 to 5 games out of 9. admittedly, this is a very small sample, but the evidence here is that hamlin is certainly not over-handicapped.

ian. :)
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Re: Jamaica [BETA] V32 adjustments for upload P32

Postby MrBenn on Thu Feb 18, 2010 3:24 pm

I'm watching this discussion with interest; the game I'm currently playing is finely balanced and appears to be turning into a 3-way stalemate/build game :lol:

Are there any further changes being suggested/considered? If not, then I think we can push the boat out on this one...
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