Conquer Club

Incandenza wrote:btw, you should update your first post, as there are now 34 terits, not 32.

-Apparently I don't know the difference between the Atlantic and Pacific Oceans geographically, I wouldn't expect me to be able to count to 34 if I were you

whew, a lot has happened since I last checked in. There seems to be concerns that Niacaragua is at a disadvantage because of 1) its size and 2) lack of proximity to a small bonus.

It seems like a simpler remedy would be to just make Costa Rica a three territory +2 region. Merging Guanacaste and San Jose would mean it has three territories, two of which are northern borders and two of which are southern borders.

-While I will defend the current organization by saying the sea routes provide better access to the +1s, Having a +2 in the south would really help to even the map out between the north and the south.

With your suggestion, however, wouldn't Costa Rica still have three border territs? I don't know the math, but would that make it a +2 or +3?

We wouldn't have to eliminate a territory, because there'd be 33 territories (the sea routes no longer have to start neutral) which means the following # of starting positions:

• 1v1: 11 each, 11 neutrals
• 3 player: 11 each, 0 neutrals
• 4 player: 8 each, 1 neutrals
• 5 player: 6 each, 3 neutrals
• 6 player: 5 each, 3 neutrals
• 7 player: screw em... nobody should start seven player games on a small map.
• 8 player: see above.

-I can't even begin to tell you how excited I am to have this territ count. A map just small enough to NOT give the 1st play; 12 territ advantage is something I can look forward to greatly. I hate having to go second in a 12 or 13 starting territ map.

I think it might be worthwhile to code El Salvador as starting positions. Splitting up El Salvador between the two players means 31 starting territories, so there would still be 11 territories for each to start the game. Splitting up additional regions - the three territory regions - just means fewer neutrals in a 1v1, which in turn means a bigger drop for the first player, which is what we're trying to avoid.

-You may need to explain this to me coding wise, as I'm unsure exactly how this would work. Would it just be coded this way to make sure there's no neutrals on El Salvador? Is this negated on 3+ player games?

RjBeals' mini map is worthy of closer inspection: note the playful font he's used for the regions, which really works with the colors you have going on so far, lgoask. And the border makes it really sharp - sharpen the little map up and you can get away with making it smaller, as he has. As for his flowers...

-Perhaps if the frame itself was thinned down it would fit well.

RJ- do you mind sharing that font name with me? I don't think my photoshop rendered it as I don't currently have it

Incandenza wrote:The hippo speaks wisdom, even though the way he used "playful" in the last paragraph has always felt like nails on a chalkboard to me...

-Damnit, now my map's going in the wrong direction. It's becoming 'playful'

lgoasklucyl wrote:

leprepotamus wrote:It seems like a simpler remedy would be to just make Costa Rica a three territory +2 region. Merging Guanacaste and San Jose would mean it has three territories, two of which are northern borders and two of which are southern borders.

With your suggestion, however, wouldn't Costa Rica still have three border territs? I don't know the math, but would that make it a +2 or +3?

I knew my post (above) wouldn't make sense. There would be three territories total in Costa Rica, and all three would be border territories. If you were to merge a northern and southern territory, such as Guanacaste and San Jose, two of the territories would still border panama and two would still border nicaragua. What we want to avoid is a bottleneck territory that reaches from coast to coast. And yes, it would be a +2, which would be nice for balance... not sure why we never thought of this solution months ago.

lgoasklucyl wrote:-I can't even begin to tell you how excited I am to have this territ count. A map just small enough to NOT give the 1st play; 12 territ advantage is something I can look forward to greatly. I hate having to go second in a 12 or 13 starting territ map.

True that. I'm still bitter about getting to the semis in a recent Foundry Update 1v1 tourney, and MrBenn got to go first in all of our games.

Re. starting territories: don't sweat it, it's just something I'll add in the code. You don't have to do anything to the map. Nobody will even know it's there, and it will have no impact on games with more than two players.

Version 8

Changes:
-Changed the helms to all have the black outer glow; duplicated the layer to add a little extra depth to the glow
-Added some gradient to the compass to add contrast, the orange was kind of dull
-Deleted the Guanacaste/San Jose border to make it one territ for a 3 territ +2 bonus; looks kind of ugly though- should I bring the actual land in from the ocean more so it's not such a huge blob? Also, should the name stay San Jose, Guanacaste, or something to encompass both (no idea what the third would be)
-Moved Pacific Sea Route to the right a little so it wasn't in the key
-Made a few small name/army # adjustments so things fit more properly

To-do:
-I'm going to work on a border around the minimap/perhaps changing the font, but am waiting on RJ to return so he can explain to me how he reproduced the land so neatly in his version of the minimap so I can redo that first and make it look better
-Other things

Ideas?!

Thanks!

A ship's wheel behind each of the sea routes would tie them together. As it is, I'm afraid users will think that the wheels can attack each other, as they can on other CC maps - making the Sea Route symbols more prominent might help alleviate this. Better yet, make the sea route symbol slightly different, and slip it behind the words "Sea Route" in the legend. And a period after sea route.

Plenty of room to bring the compass down - it's crowding the map title.

oaktown wrote:A ship's wheel behind each of the sea routes would tie them together. As it is, I'm afraid users will think that the wheels can attack each other, as they can on other CC maps - making the Sea Route symbols more prominent might help alleviate this. Better yet, make the sea route symbol slightly different, and slip it behind the words "Sea Route" in the legend. And a period after sea route.

Plenty of room to bring the compass down - it's crowding the map title.

Good call- I've also thought about how to better bring out the #s in the sea. As is I feel some individuals playing turns too fast may be prone to missing it.

Perhaps I can make one less opaque under each number and it'll work as a sort of marker in place of an army circle.

Thanks Oak

What do you think about the blob that is San Jose now? I think it's horrific looking, personally, lol. Perhaps just chopping down the geography? I don't particularly like to lose land if unavoidable, but combining two cities into one creates a single blob-shaped city about the size of El Salvador

edit: are you suggesting a different symbol (not the helm) be used to represent the sea routes (along with the words, to avoid confusion)? if so, ideas? i'll look for a bit now.

2nd edit: what about just a mast (is that what the sail-thing is called on big ships?) perhaps two of them layered over one another, color overlayed @ about 60% opacity to the matching sea route color. perhaps ~%75 opacity if I drop the whole layer opacity to put it behind the army #. the numbers i can figure out later.. lol.

Yeah, I think the San Juan - Limon border could be moved a bit west, maybe have it come down from that little dip in the rio san jose border...

Incandenza wrote:Yeah, I think the San Juan - Limon border could be moved a bit west, maybe have it come down from that little dip in the rio san jose border...

Ah- a brilliant solution that doesn't involve making sea levels fictionally rise; thanks!!!!!

No problemo!

just so you don't go thinking I'm letting you do all the work around here... still to do are replacing accents with unicode characters (so we don't freak out the site/BOB) and coordinates.

Code: Select all

<?xml version="1.0"?>
<map>

    <title>Central America</title>
    <smallwidth>630</smallwidth>
    <smallheight>600</smallheight>
    <largewidth>840</largewidth>
    <largeheight>800</largeheight>
    <filetype>jpg</filetype>

<positions>
   <position>
      <territory>San Salvador</territory>
   </position>
   <position>
      <territory>Usulután</territory>
   </position>
</positions>

<continent>
      <name>Guatemala</name>
      <bonus>3</bonus>
      <components>
         <territory>Petén</territory>
         <territory>Izabal</territory>
         <territory>Quiché</territory>
         <territory>Xela</territory>
         <territory>Guatemala</territory>
      </components>
</continent>
         <!---->
<continent>
      <name>Belize</name>
      <bonus>1</bonus>
      <components>
         <territory>Orange Walk</territory>
         <territory>The Cayes</territory>
         <territory>Belmopan</territory>
      </components>
</continent>
         <!---->
<continent>
      <name>Honduras</name>
      <bonus>4</bonus>
      <components>
         <territory>Copán</territory>
         <territory>Alténtida</territory>
         <territory>Islas de la Bahia</territory>
         <territory>Tegucigalpa</territory>
         <territory>Olancho</territory>
         <territory>Colón</territory>
      </components>
</continent>
         <!---->
<continent>
      <name>El Salvador</name>
      <bonus>1</bonus>
      <components>
         <territory>San Salvador</territory>
         <territory>Usulután</territory>
      </components>
</continent>
         <!---->
<continent>
      <name>Nicaragua</name>
      <bonus>5</bonus>
      <components>
         <territory>RAAN</territory>
         <territory>Jinotega</territory>
         <territory>Chinandega</territory>
         <territory>Managua</territory>
         <territory>Boaca</territory>
         <territory>RAAS</territory>
         <territory>Rio San Juan</territory>
      </components>
</continent>
         <!---->
<continent>
      <name>Panama</name>
      <bonus>3</bonus>
      <components>
         <territory>Darien Gap</territory>
         <territory>Canál</territory>
         <territory>Bocas del Toro</territory>
         <territory>Chiriqui</territory>
         <territory>Coclé</territory>
      </components>
</continent>
         <!---->
<continent>
      <name>Costa Rica</name>
      <bonus>3</bonus>
      <components>
         <territory>Limón</territory>
         <territory>Puntarenas</territory>
         <territory>San Jose</territory>     
      </components>
</continent>

<continent>
      <name>Shipping Lanes</name>
      <bonus>3</bonus>
      <components>
         <territory>Canál</territory>
         <territory>Pacific Sea Route</territory>
         <territory>Atlantic Sea Route</territory>     
      </components>
</continent>

<!-- Beginning of Territories -->
<territory>
      <name>Orange Walk</name>
      <borders>
         <border>The Cayes</border>
         <border>Belmopan</border>
         <border>Petén</border>
      </borders>
      <coordinates>
         <smallx>1</smallx>
         <smally>1</smally>
         <largex>1</largex>
         <largey>1</largey>
      </coordinates>
</territory>
      <!---->
<territory>
      <name>The Cayes</name>
      <borders>
         <border>Orange Walk</border>
         <border>Belmopan</border>
      </borders>
      <coordinates>
         <smallx>1</smallx>
         <smally>1</smally>
         <largex>1</largex>
         <largey>1</largey>
      </coordinates>
</territory>
      <!---->
<territory>
      <name>Belmopan</name>
      <borders>
         <border>The Cayes</border>
         <border>Orange Walk</border>
         <border>Petén</border>
         <border>Izabal</border>
      </borders>
      <coordinates>
         <smallx>1</smallx>
         <smally>1</smally>
         <largex>1</largex>
         <largey>1</largey>
      </coordinates>
</territory>
      <!---->
<territory>
      <name>Petén</name>
      <borders>
         <border>Orange Walk</border>
         <border>Belmopan</border>
         <border>Izabal</border>
         <border>Quiché</border>
      </borders>
      <coordinates>
         <smallx>1</smallx>
         <smally>1</smally>
         <largex>1</largex>
         <largey>1</largey>
      </coordinates>
</territory>
      <!---->
<territory>
      <name>Izabal</name>
      <borders>
         <border>Belmopan</border>
         <border>Petén</border>
         <border>Quiché</border>
         <border>Guatemala</border>
         <border>Copán</border>
      </borders>
      <coordinates>
         <smallx>1</smallx>
         <smally>1</smally>
         <largex>1</largex>
         <largey>1</largey>
      </coordinates>
</territory>
      <!---->
<territory>
      <name>Quiché</name>
      <borders>
         <border>Xela</border>
         <border>Petén</border>
         <border>Izabal</border>
         <border>Guatemala</border>
      </borders>
      <coordinates>
         <smallx>1</smallx>
         <smally>1</smally>
         <largex>1</largex>
         <largey>1</largey>
      </coordinates>
</territory>
      <!---->
<territory>
      <name>Guatemala</name>
      <borders>
         <border>Xela</border>
         <border>Quiché</border>
         <border>Izabal</border>
         <border>Copán</border>
         <border>San Salvador</border>
         <border>Pacific Sea Route</border>
      </borders>
      <coordinates>
         <smallx>1</smallx>
         <smally>1</smally>
         <largex>1</largex>
         <largey>1</largey>
      </coordinates>
</territory>
      <!---->
<territory>
      <name>Xela</name>
      <borders>
         <border>Quiché</border>
         <border>Guatemala</border>
      </borders>
      <coordinates>
         <smallx>1</smallx>
         <smally>1</smally>
         <largex>1</largex>
         <largey>1</largey>
      </coordinates>
</territory>
      <!---->
<territory>
      <name>San Salvador</name>
      <borders>
         <border>Guatemala</border>
         <border>Copán</border>
         <border>Usulután</border>
      </borders>
      <coordinates>
         <smallx>1</smallx>
         <smally>1</smally>
         <largex>1</largex>
         <largey>1</largey>
      </coordinates>
</territory>
      <!---->
<territory>
      <name>Usulután</name>
      <borders>
         <border>San Salvador</border>
         <border>Copán</border>
         <border>Tegucigalpa</border>
      </borders>
      <coordinates>
         <smallx>1</smallx>
         <smally>1</smally>
         <largex>1</largex>
         <largey>1</largey>
      </coordinates>
</territory>
      <!---->
<territory>
      <name>Copán</name>
      <borders>
         <border>Izabal</border>
         <border>Atlantic Sea Route</border>
         <border>Alténtida</border>
         <border>Tegucigalpa</border>
         <border>Usulután</border>
         <border>San Salvador</border>
         <border>Guatemala</border>
      </borders>
      <coordinates>
         <smallx>1</smallx>
         <smally>1</smally>
         <largex>1</largex>
         <largey>1</largey>
      </coordinates>
</territory>
      <!---->
<territory>
      <name>Alténtida</name>
      <borders>
         <border>Islas de la Bahia</border>
         <border>Colón</border>
         <border>Olancho</border>
         <border>Tegucigalpa</border>
         <border>Copán</border>
      </borders>
      <coordinates>
         <smallx>1</smallx>
         <smally>1</smally>
         <largex>1</largex>
         <largey>1</largey>
      </coordinates>
</territory>
      <!---->
<territory>
      <name>Islas de la Bahia</name>
      <borders>
         <border>Alténtida</border>
         <border>Colón</border>
      </borders>
      <coordinates>
         <smallx>1</smallx>
         <smally>1</smally>
         <largex>1</largex>
         <largey>1</largey>
      </coordinates>
</territory>
      <!---->
<territory>
      <name>Tegucigalpa</name>
      <borders>
         <border>Copán</border>
         <border>Alténtida</border>
         <border>Olancho</border>
         <border>Jinotega</border>
         <border>Chinandega</border>
         <border>Usulután</border>
      </borders>
      <coordinates>
         <smallx>1</smallx>
         <smally>1</smally>
         <largex>1</largex>
         <largey>1</largey>
      </coordinates>
</territory>
      <!---->
<territory>
      <name>Olancho</name>
      <borders>
         <border>Alténtida</border>
         <border>Colón</border>
         <border>RAAN</border>
         <border>Jinotega</border>
         <border>Tegucigalpa</border>
      </borders>
      <coordinates>
         <smallx>1</smallx>
         <smally>1</smally>
         <largex>1</largex>
         <largey>1</largey>
      </coordinates>
</territory>
      <!---->
<territory>
      <name>Colón</name>
      <borders>
         <border>Alténtida</border>
         <border>Islas de la Bahia</border>
         <border>RAAN</border>
         <border>Olancho</border>
      </borders>
      <coordinates>
         <smallx>1</smallx>
         <smally>1</smally>
         <largex>1</largex>
         <largey>1</largey>
      </coordinates>
</territory>
      <!---->
<territory>
      <name>RAAN</name>
      <borders>
         <border>Colón</border>
         <border>RAAS</border>
         <border>Jinotega</border>
         <border>Olancho</border>
      </borders>
      <coordinates>
         <smallx>1</smallx>
         <smally>1</smally>
         <largex>1</largex>
         <largey>1</largey>
      </coordinates>
</territory>
      <!---->
<territory>
      <name>Jinotega</name>
      <borders>
         <border>RAAN</border>
         <border>RAAS</border>
         <border>Boaca</border>
         <border>Chinandega</border>
         <border>Tegucigalpa</border>
         <border>Olancho</border>
      </borders>
      <coordinates>
         <smallx>1</smallx>
         <smally>1</smally>
         <largex>1</largex>
         <largey>1</largey>
      </coordinates>
</territory>
      <!---->
<territory>
      <name>Chinandega</name>
      <borders>
         <border>Tegucigalpa</border>
         <border>Jinotega</border>
         <border>Boaca</border>
         <border>Managua</border>
      </borders>
      <coordinates>
         <smallx>1</smallx>
         <smally>1</smally>
         <largex>1</largex>
         <largey>1</largey>
      </coordinates>
</territory>
      <!---->
<territory>
      <name>Managua</name>
      <borders>
         <border>Chinandega</border>
         <border>Boaca</border>
         <border>San Jose</border>
      </borders>
      <coordinates>
         <smallx>1</smallx>
         <smally>1</smally>
         <largex>1</largex>
         <largey>1</largey>
      </coordinates>
</territory>
      <!---->
<territory>
      <name>Boaca</name>
      <borders>
         <border>Jinotega</border>
         <border>RAAS</border>
         <border>Rio San Juan</border>
         <border>Managua</border>
         <border>Chinandega</border>
      </borders>
      <coordinates>
         <smallx>1</smallx>
         <smally>1</smally>
         <largex>1</largex>
         <largey>1</largey>
      </coordinates>
</territory>
      <!---->
<territory>
      <name>RAAS</name>
      <borders>
         <border>RAAN</border>
         <border>Rio San Juan</border>
         <border>Boaca</border>
         <border>Jinotega</border>
      </borders>
      <coordinates>
         <smallx>1</smallx>
         <smally>1</smally>
         <largex>1</largex>
         <largey>1</largey>
      </coordinates>
</territory>
      <!---->
<territory>
      <name>Rio San Juan</name>
      <borders>
         <border>Boaca</border>
         <border>RAAS</border>
         <border>Limón</border>
         <border>San Jose</border>
         <border>Atlantic Sea Route</border>
      </borders>
      <coordinates>
         <smallx>1</smallx>
         <smally>1</smally>
         <largex>1</largex>
         <largey>1</largey>
      </coordinates>
</territory>
       <!---->
<territory>
      <name>San Jose</name>
      <borders>
         <border>Managua</border>
         <border>Rio San Juan</border>
         <border>Limón</border>
         <border>Puntarenas</border>
      </borders>
      <coordinates>
         <smallx>1</smallx>
         <smally>1</smally>
         <largex>1</largex>
         <largey>1</largey>
      </coordinates>
</territory>     <!---->
<territory>
      <name>Puntarenas</name>
      <borders>
         <border>San Jose</border>
         <border>Limón</border>
         <border>Bocas del Toro</border>
         <border>Chiriqui</border>
         <border>Pacific Sea Route</border>
      </borders>
      <coordinates>
         <smallx>1</smallx>
         <smally>1</smally>
         <largex>1</largex>
         <largey>1</largey>
      </coordinates>
</territory>
      <!---->
<territory>
      <name>Limón</name>
      <borders>
         <border>Rio San Juan</border>
         <border>San Jose</border>
         <border>Puntarenas</border>
         <border>Bocas del Toro</border>
      </borders>
      <coordinates>
         <smallx>1</smallx>
         <smally>1</smally>
         <largex>1</largex>
         <largey>1</largey>
      </coordinates>
</territory>
      <!---->
<territory>
      <name>Chiriqui</name>
      <borders>
         <border>Puntarenas</border>
         <border>Bocas del Toro</border>
         <border>Coclé</border>
      </borders>
      <coordinates>
         <smallx>1</smallx>
         <smally>1</smally>
         <largex>1</largex>
         <largey>1</largey>
      </coordinates>
</territory>
      <!---->
<territory>
      <name>Bocas del Toro</name>
      <borders>
         <border>Limón</border>
         <border>Puntarenas</border>
         <border>Chiriqui</border>
         <border>Coclé</border>
         <border>Canál</border>
      </borders>
      <coordinates>
         <smallx>1</smallx>
         <smally>1</smally>
         <largex>1</largex>
         <largey>1</largey>
      </coordinates>
</territory>
      <!---->
<territory>
      <name>Coclé</name>
      <borders>
         <border>Chiriqui</border>
         <border>Bocas del Toro</border>
         <border>Canál</border>
      </borders>
      <coordinates>
         <smallx>1</smallx>
         <smally>1</smally>
         <largex>1</largex>
         <largey>1</largey>
      </coordinates>
</territory>
      <!---->
<territory>
      <name>Canál</name>
      <borders>
         <border>Bocas del Toro</border>
         <border>Coclé</border>
         <border>Darien Gap</border>
         <border>Pacific Sea Route</border>
         <border>Atlantic Sea Route</border>
      </borders>
      <coordinates>
         <smallx>1</smallx>
         <smally>1</smally>
         <largex>1</largex>
         <largey>1</largey>
      </coordinates>
</territory>
      <!---->
<territory>
      <name>Darien Gap</name>
      <borders>
         <border>Canál</border>
      </borders>
      <coordinates>
         <smallx>1</smallx>
         <smally>1</smally>
         <largex>1</largex>
         <largey>1</largey>
      </coordinates>
</territory>
      <!---->
<territory>
      <name>Pacific Sea Route</name>
      <borders>
         <border>Canál</border>
         <border>Puntarenas</border>
         <border>Guatemala</border>
      </borders>
      <coordinates>
         <smallx>1</smallx>
         <smally>1</smally>
         <largex>1</largex>
         <largey>1</largey>
      </coordinates>
</territory>
      <!---->
<territory>
      <name>Atlantic Sea Route</name>
      <borders>
         <border>Canál</border>
         <border>Copán</border>
         <border>Rio San Juan</border>
      </borders>
      <coordinates>
         <smallx>1</smallx>
         <smally>1</smally>
         <largex>1</largex>
         <largey>1</largey>
      </coordinates>
</territory>
</map>

my native language is spanish, and i have a couple corrections...

• "Canál" is misspelled, it should be "Canal", without the accent on the last "a" ...
• "Rio San Juan" is misspelled, it shoud be "Río", with the accent on the "i"
• "Islas de la Bahia" is misspelled, it should be "Bahía", with the accent on the last "i"
• If you are spelling the country names in spanish, "Panama" should have an accent on the last "a", "Panamá"

also, i'm from Guatemala and "Xela" is just a short name for a city named "Xelajú", so i think you should rename that territory (i mentioned this a long time ago, but it was never addressed)...

great map by the way!! i'm looking forward to it!

maritovw wrote:my native language is spanish, and i have a couple corrections...

• "Canál" is misspelled, it should be "Canal", without the accent on the last "a" ...
• "Rio San Juan" is misspelled, it shoud be "Río", with the accent on the "i"
• "Islas de la Bahia" is misspelled, it should be "Bahía", with the accent on the last "i"
• If you are spelling the country names in spanish, "Panama" should have an accent on the last "a", "Panamá"

also, i'm from Guatemala and "Xela" is just a short name for a city named "Xelajú", so i think you should rename that territory (i mentioned this a long time ago, but it was never addressed)...

great map by the way!! i'm looking forward to it!

I have made a note of all of these changes and they will be in the next update- thanks for catching them for us

Incandenza wrote:While adding a terit to el salvador isn't a bad idea, I tend to think that nicaragua can stay the way it is... given the sea lanes, this'll be a pretty easy map to move around in

lgoasklucyl wrote:

iancanton wrote:anyone who starts in nicaragua is at an obvious disadvantage: as well as being stuck in the middle of the map, it isn't next to a tiny bonus. we can reduce this disadvantage by merging 4 of nicaragua's regions into 2 (merge RAAN with RAAS and jinotega with chinandega, perhaps?).

The bonus would probably need to be slightly reduce in this instance, no? While it can still be attack via sea routes, it would only have 2 borders in the north and south, and if someone held the bonuses 6 total. Unsure where to go with this one. Personally, I think I've grown to like the blob in the center of the map.

yes, i did mean with a reduced nicaragua bonus, though we now have good support for an unchanged nicaragua bonus zone.

lgoasklucyl wrote:

iancanton wrote:i also think there would be fewer starting issues if the 2-region el salvador bonus became a 3-region one by adding santa ana in western el salvador (the san salvador troop count can be moved sotuh-east, with the name can going in the sea).

I kind of like the smaller bonuses, so a +2 doesn't give too much away if held for one turn. Are you proposing that the 3rd territ be locked in by the other two? In that instance it may work. (ie: Santa ana and Usultan are borders with San Salvador resting further to the west).

yes, where santa ana and usultan are border regions, with non-border san salvador located on the coast.

oaktown wrote:I think it might be worthwhile to code El Salvador as starting positions.

in my opinion, where we have 3-region bonus zones, we ought to avoid having a 2-region bonus zone too unless it's graphically necessary, since using start positions doesn't work well in such cases in a 2v2 game. i therefore recommend making el salvador a 3-region bonus zone.

lgoasklucyl wrote:

iancanton wrote:to restore the starting count of 32 regions, an extra one in guatemala reduces the existing benefit of staring in the north (in 4-player singles, it's always nice to start at one end of a linear map, especially next to two easy bonuses).

I do like this suggestion, is there a geographical way to do this?

my guatamala geography isn't good enough! the country seems to be one big city with lots of little villages. maybe maritovw might have an idea for an extra region if u decide that u want to do this?

ian.

lg - did you still wanna chat about the minimap?

lgoasklucyl wrote:Version 8
-Deleted the Guanacaste/San Jose border to make it one territ for a 3 territ +2 bonus; looks kind of ugly though- should I bring the actual land in from the ocean more so it's not such a huge blob? Also, should the name stay San Jose, Guanacaste, or something to encompass both (no idea what the third would be)

I am not good at map making and I usually don't take much time to post here, but I might help with it.

Guanacaste, Limon and Puntarenas names are fair enough since they are more similar to the actual division that you are making. Costa Rica is more or less divided into four regions for many considerations, but maps need not relate to real life. Just a FYI, is more or less like this (and don't kill me for my lack of drawing and paint skills, I suck at this):



Where
1= Great Metropolitan Area = What you could call SAN JOSE
2= Pacific Coastline = What you could call PUNTARENAS
3= North Pacific Coastline = What you could call GUANACASTE
4 = Atlantic Coastline = What you could call LIMON

So, you can work out of it. If you'd rather leave it in 3 territories, you might rather draw a line down from Rio San Juan, like this:



(Don't kill me for lack of skills please). Remains to be seen what could be done regarding gameplay, where my opinion actually fails. And if you just decide to leave it as it is, then name them Guanacaste, Limon and Puntarenas since San Jose really doesn't match any of those regions

Hope I have been of some assistance

(also note that the original map I wrote over shows several more regions, but nevermind them since CR is too smal a region to further divide it in a CC map)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v321/SephSlayer/cr.jpg

Thanks you SO much, this is exactly what I needed regarding these regions! I was curious as to what would make better sense in the region, and you cleared it up very nicely

RjBeals wrote:lg - did you still wanna chat about the minimap?

Yeah, just a couple things, really:
1. The font you used, as it may work with the overall map better than the one I've chosen.

2. How did you copy the land over and get the stroke to look so neat? I tried duplicating just the territory color layers and resizing them, but they don't look too hot how I did it. Also, your stroke looks MUCH neater than what I came up with.

Iancanton wrote:in my opinion, where we have 3-region bonus zones, we ought to avoid having a 2-region bonus zone too unless it's graphically necessary, since using start positions doesn't work well in such cases in a 2v2 game. i therefore recommend making el salvador a 3-region bonus zone.

-This still definitely applies as an option if others show interest! Two region bonuses can be a pain in the ass, and three may be the solution we need. Gotta see if anyone else feels it's the way to go or not

Thanks everyone! Lots of advice/errors I can use to pour out the next draft

No problem. I have lived here for 25 years so...

lgoasklucyl wrote:-This still definitely applies as an option if others show interest! Two region bonuses can be a pain in the ass, and three may be the solution we need. Gotta see if anyone else feels it's the way to go or not

I can definitely get on board with adding a non-border terit to el sal.

my two cents...

I see some talk of adding a territory to guatemala to "restore" the map to 32 territories, but I think it should be pointed out that the map currently has 33 nterritories. We began with 32, but added the sea routes, then dropped a territory in Costa Rica. 33. And just in case I counted them.

I'm personally quite comfortable with El Salvador having just two territories. When we hashed this out month ago the logic was that once you secure the country it's not exactly as if you will take over the map. A +1 isn't devastating, there is no easy expansion from El Salvador, and you're sure to have somebody next to you ready to take you out right quick. Personally if I started there in a game I might grab the bonus, but then defend it minimally and use my armies elsewhere. Even Belize is a better start because you can expand into Guatemala and minimize your borders.

There are possible fixes other than adding a territory. We could expand to eight starting positions, but the trouble with this is that it actually increases the chances of dropping El Salvador in 1v1 games. A better solution would be to scrap the starting territories and just start one of the El Salvador territories neutral; with 33 terits there is going to be at least one neutral in 2, 4, 5, 6, 7, and 8 player games anyway. This would bring the map back to the original 32, which means that in 1v1 and 3 player games a player needs two takes, not just one, to get up to 12 territories and that one extra army - a bonus effect. As a neutral territory the player who starts there would have to ask himself if it's worth a +1 bonus to waste his first turn hitting neutral armies.

I'd be fine with El Salvador starting neutral---but I kind of like the chance of getting lucky drop/taking out a player's troops if I've got troops in the adjacent territory.


--Andy

AndyDufresne wrote:I'd be fine with El Salvador starting neutral---but I kind of like the chance of getting lucky drop/taking out a player's troops if I've got troops in the adjacent territory.


--Andy

Would starting all of El Salvador neutral solve anything? That would just result in Belize being a far more favorable bonus.

Strategy-wise, good team players are far more likely to go for the three terit bonus if it means taking another players troops out than a 2 territ, neutral bonus where they could lose troops taking no one elses.

I think if anything is to be done it should be the third, non-border territory personally.

What if the sea route was neutral? I'd like to see a neutral free mainland.


--Andy

If given the choice, I'd rather see A) a 3-terit el sal or B) a 2-terit el sal with 1 neutral, than a neutral in one of the sea lanes...

Incandenza wrote:If given the choice, I'd rather see A) a 3-terit el sal or B) a 2-terit el sal with 1 neutral, than a neutral in one of the sea lanes...

I personally favor option a very, VERY highly in this situation.

I'm telling everyone now- if one of the territs in a two territ bonus starts neutral it will rarely be used. If anything is neutral in a bonus, it should grant at least an extra +1 to merit being grabbed by an experienced team player.

The only thing I wouldn't mind seeing neutral would be the sea routes, as at least those may NEED to be held to move somewhere.

Maybe I'll poll it with the next version- people LOVE polls

lgoasklucyl wrote:I'm telling everyone now- if one of the territs in a two territ bonus starts neutral it will rarely be used. If anything is neutral in a bonus, it should grant at least an extra +1 to merit being grabbed by an experienced team player.

i tend to agree. el salvador has to be at least a +2 bonus, whether it has 3 regions (with start positions) or 2 regions (with starting neutrals on 1 region). aesthetically, i prefer a 3-region el salvador.

ian.

lgoasklucyl wrote:I'm telling everyone now- if one of the territs in a two territ bonus starts neutral it will rarely be used. If anything is neutral in a bonus, it should grant at least an extra +1 to merit being grabbed by an experienced team player.

Agreed with lgoasklucyl wholeheartedly.


--Andy